DART+ (DART Expansion)

leshamry

SSG should be completely unique not Georgian.
Yes we can also have orange stations...
Here is a proposal for color design of stations you don't even need to read the station names...

Colour is cheap. Choose your favorite colour! can you see the flag from the airport?

I wonder how O'Connell Bridge Station should look? white...

Yixian

Hmm I dunno, I think SSG should be the all out, classical, Georgian extravaganza and the rest should be have more unique designs.

In fact I'd be really surprised if they didn't use the Fusiliers Arch as heavy influence on the design of the station.

Would also be nice if there we some statues actually inside SSG station, even on the platforms if there was room! Statues of famous Dubliners waiting for the train? xD Ok maybe I'm taking it too far lmao..

EDIT: Btw leshamry, when are you going to open up your site so we can see all your designs? I would love to see them!

BluntGuy

As far as I know the SSG station is being built by the Metro North consortium, and according to the MN documents, MN (at least the surface stops) will have a similar look to Luas. You can probably expect a similar aesthetic ethos to be carried over into the underground stations. So I would expect - clean and modern, but not particularly interesting station designs.

DART Undeground's stations (at least the exteriors) look a bit more ambitious.

Yixian

I have no doubt that a lot of the stations beyond Mater will probably be pretty bland, if pleasantly clean and modern, but for the stops in the city centre they're going to have to be a little more adventurous, at least for OCS and SSG.

The early mockups for MN stations didn't look anything like the Luas, they were all a combination of dark grey stone and frosted blue glass. Didn't look particularly interesting but it seemed to be an entirely different design to the Luas. Was it DART u and not MN whose stations they said should "capture the look and feel of the area around them"? I forget now.

Also here's a thought, I wonder if the DART trains will get a new lick of paint for the opening of DARTu? I hope so xD

BluntGuy

Yixian wrote: »

The early mockups for MN stations didn't look anything like the Luas, they were all a combination of dark grey stone and frosted blue glass. Didn't look particularly interesting but it seemed to be an entirely different design to the Luas.

It seemed similar enough to me. OCS station will at least be different in the fact that it seems the station may be constructed using mining techniques, judging by the renders.

Was it DART u and not MN whose stations they said should "capture the look and feel of the area around them"? I forget now.

I think it was DART Underground, but that's completely off the top of my head. The DART Underground station exterior renders look quite nice, Inchicore looks good, Docklands looks good, Pearse looks good, Christchurch... the location is questionable, but it looks good, the only one I have a problem with is Heuston. Maybe it'll look better in real life, but the modern entrance just clashes violently with the more classical look of the stuff behind it.

Also here's a thought, I wonder if the DART trains will get a new lick of paint for the opening of DARTu? I hope so xD

Did they not get a new lick of paint for the DART 25 celebration last year?

Yixian

BluntGuy wrote: »

Did they not get a new lick of paint for the DART 25 celebration last year?

As in a redesign I mean, they look pretty 80s tbh.

I think all the mockups so far have just been "guidelines" or proof of concepts, they'll be bringing on architects to design the final thing shortly I believe, and I wouldn't be surprised if they are very different in design to the concepts, if not in layout.

Carawaystick

you could do a lot worse than cogging the Fosteritos from Bilbao Metro
http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/photos/uncategorized/2007/10/25/img_3067.jpg

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/photos/uncategorized/2007/10/25/img_3066.jpg

and I'll give a thumbs up for the triquetra too.

The poster who mentioned colours for stations - bad idea for colour blind people and at night, streetlights make colours impossible to see correctly.
Also I'd hope there's more stations than colours.....

Roryhy

Maybe old trains on one line and new trains on the other?

Yixian

Well Metro North will have entirely new trains, they won't be anything like the DART, more like a Luas.

Roryhy

On completion there will be 2 dart lines, what im suggesting is that they use the old stock on one, and brand new stock on the other. Im not suggesting dart stock be used on metro, i realise that wouldnt work.

leshamry

Carawaystick wrote: »

and I'll give a thumbs up for the triquetra too.

The poster who mentioned colours for stations - bad idea for colour blind people and at night, streetlights make colours impossible to see correctly.

So the general notion on the forums is the triquetra is acceptable for all stations and maybe something special for SSG.

I never said colours and no signs! It's just if your not colour blind you don't need to read them...

If any station was to be georgianish it would be merrion square.

Craig Fay

leshamry wrote: »

If any station was to be georgianish it would be merrion square.

But... there's no station planned for Merrion Square

Irish and Proud

Craig Fay wrote: »

But... there's no station planned for Merrion Square

...well there was one - a south entrance to Pearse Station (Underground Dart platforms) was originally proposed on Merrion Square. However, the Dart Underground station for Pearse has been moved futher east with a longer link-in to the present day Pearse Station. Some re-alignments have been happening to the Dart Underground route.

Regards!

etchyed

leshamry wrote: »

SSG should be completely unique not Georgian.
Yes we can also have orange stations...
Here is a proposal for color design of stations you don't even need to read the station names...

Colour is cheap. Choose your favorite colour! can you see the flag from the airport?

Bizarre idea. Lines are coloured. Colouring stations would be confusing. And places have names! People seem to cope with that. And you forgot Tara Street.

etchyed

leshamry wrote: »

So the general notion on the forums is the triquetra is acceptable for all stations and maybe something special for SSG.

No, it's not! This thread has descended into absurdity and few regular posters are bothered to respond. The triquetras, the shamrocks, the colour-coded stations, the celtic designs, it's all nonsense!

leshamry

etchyed wrote: »

No, it's not! This thread has descended into absurdity and few regular posters are bothered to respond. The triquetras, the shamrocks, the colour-coded stations, the celtic designs, it's all nonsense!

Your argument is flawed.
Which so called designs do you admire and what awards have they won?
Do people take photos of them? and travel around the world to see them?

Even the Germans like patterns and god forbid colour...

etchyed

leshamry wrote: »

Your argument is flawed.

I didn't really make one, I just said your ideas were crap. Not so much flawed as nonexistent.

Which so called designs do you admire and what awards have they won?
Do people take photos of them? and travel around the world to see them?

Sorry, is this some kind of attempt at sarcasm?

god forbid colour...

What?!!! Your post is very agressive and condescending. Don't make assumptions about me because I don't agree with you. That's extremely childish. You can't make a sweeping statement that "the general consensus on the forum is X" and expect not to be contradicted.

On the other hand, the pictures you posted are lovely. If by colour coding the stations you were referring to the decor within them then I have no problem with that, as long as the signage remains neutral. And a Celtic motif in the style of that platform wall would be perfect.

I maintain, however, that the triquetra as a logo is dreadful. It is in no way representative of Dublin and smacks of branding the Metro to suit tourists. Very few Metro systems have gained iconic status and when they have it's because of their heritage. You can't just stick something Celtic on the signs and lob a few token Irish words on a travelcard ("Saoirse"? Please!). It's tacky in the extreme and your failure to see that makes your sniping about award-winning design laughable.

noelfirl

leshamry wrote: »

Your argument is flawed.
Which so called designs do you admire and what awards have they won?
Do people take photos of them? and travel around the world to see them?

Even the Germans like patterns and god forbid colour...

Very few people make their travel plans primarily on photographing transit stations. DART underground and Metro North are for Dublin commuters, not art critics, the architectural elite or other intellectuals to stroll around or pontificate about in endless award nominations, so please let's not spend hideous amounts of money to impress that minority demographic. Plain funtionality, minimum pizaz. Colour if you want, but none of this spirals, shamrocks and triquetra crap trying to make our up and coming transport system into some ego-inflated Gaelic mini Moscow Metro.

Irish and Proud

etchyed wrote: »

No, it's not! This thread has descended into absurdity and few regular posters are bothered to respond. The triquetras, the shamrocks, the colour-coded stations, the celtic designs, it's all nonsense!

...I think the most important thing is that the signs are easily associated with transport. I for one would like to see sleek modern signs for all Metro and Dart stations - probably on a standard circular plate.

In any case, I've come up with a scheme for naming and colouring LUAS, METRO and DART Lines - the DART Lines are named after the mainline stations which they pass through, while Metro North is named after Parnell Square through which it passes, so here goes:

DART 1 - Bray/Greystones to Maynooth/Pace (M3)
Colour: Solid Light Green - Name: Connolly Line

DART 2 - Hazelhatch to Drogheda
Colour: Solid Dark Green - Name: Heuston Line

METRO NORTH - Stephen's Green to Lissenhall (M1)
Colour: Solid Dark Blue - Name: Parnell Line

METRO WEST - Tallaght to Dardistown (Metro North)
Colour: Solid Orange - Name: Orbital Line

LUAS B & D Lines - Cherrywood to Finglas
Colour: Outline Green - Name: Green Line (Stephen's Green)

LUAS A & C Lines - Tallaght/Citywest to Connolly/Point
Colour: Outline Red - Name: Red Line (Red Cow Interchange)

LUAS F (Lucan) Line - Lucan to Dame Street
Colour: Outline Blue - Name: Blue Line (goes past Bluebell)

...I devised the above a couple of weeks ago!

What do you guys think?

etchyed

Irish and Proud wrote: »

DART 1 - Bray/Greystones to Maynooth/Pace (M3)
Colour: Solid Light Green - Name: Connolly Line

DART 2 - Hazelhatch to Drogheda
Colour: Solid Dark Green - Name: Heuston Line

METRO NORTH - Stephen's Green to Lissenhall (M1)
Colour: Solid Dark Blue - Name: Parnell Line

METRO WEST - Tallaght to Dardistown (Metro North)
Colour: Solid Orange - Name: Orbital Line

LUAS B & D Lines - Cherrywood to Finglas
Colour: Outline Green - Name: Green Line (Stephen's Green)

LUAS A & C Lines - Tallaght/Citywest to Connolly/Point
Colour: Outline Red - Name: Red Line (Red Cow Interchange)

LUAS F (Lucan) Line - Lucan to Dame Street
Colour: Outline Blue - Name: Blue Line (goes past Bluebell)

...I devised the above a couple of weeks ago!

What do you guys think!

I agree with all the names you've proposed. Heard Northern line thrown about for Metro North but that could cause confusion with the other one. Parnell line is a good idea I think.

I agree with the notion of outlined colours for Luas but I don't agree with three different green-coloured lines. I know the DART branding is green and it would be nice and consistent but unfortunately the Luas green line has stolen a march on the Heuston and Connolly lines.

According to Victor a few posts up it's currently intended that Metro North be branded the Blue Line.

Typewriter

Irish and Proud wrote: »

...I think the most important thing is that the signs are easily associated with transport. I for one would like to see sleek modern signs for all Metro and Dart stations - probably on a standard circular plate.

In any case, I've come up with a scheme for naming and colouring LUAS, METRO and DART Lines - the DART Lines are named after the mainline stations which they pass through, while Metro North is named after Parnell Square through which it passes, so here goes:

DART 1 - Bray/Greystones to Maynooth/Pace (M3)
Colour: Solid Light Green - Name: Connolly Line

DART 2 - Hazelhatch to Drogheda
Colour: Solid Dark Green - Name: Heuston Line

METRO NORTH - Stephen's Green to Lissenhall (M1)
Colour: Solid Dark Blue - Name: Parnell Line

METRO WEST - Tallaght to Dardistown (Metro North)
Colour: Solid Orange - Name: Orbital Line

LUAS B & D Lines - Cherrywood to Finglas
Colour: Outline Green - Name: Green Line (Stephen's Green)

LUAS A & C Lines - Tallaght/Citywest to Connolly/Point
Colour: Outline Red - Name: Red Line (Red Cow Interchange)

LUAS F (Lucan) Line - Lucan to Dame Street
Colour: Outline Blue - Name: Blue Line (goes past Bluebell)

...I devised the above a couple of weeks ago!

What do you guys think?

Ahem...

green_jesus wrote: »

Absolutely fantastic! I agree with you on the colour blindness I had trouble with that in london.

Some constructive crititisum: There will only really be two dart lines maybe you could call them the 'Connolly Line' & the 'Hueston Line'? And also don't for get to add an icon for the Dublin bikes! :):o

etchyed

green_jesus wrote: »

Ahem...

tbh I had thought of it as well and someone else posted it in one of those mock-ups using the Dublin Bus logo. No offence but it's not the most original idea in the world.

leshamry

noelfirl wrote: »

so please let's not spend hideous amounts of money to impress that minority demographic.

noelfirl:

good design can be cheaper...
Good design can last longer and have cheaper maintenance costs the idea of loads of glass entrances really spells out the writing is on the wall.
So it's ok to spend 1 billion on interest payments and bank fees?
Advertising costs? Overzealous management? Questionable financial auditors? Smart cards that can overcharge you and put 70,000 in your bank account by mistake. Good design can make the state money.
Is good design one gauge? one depot? one company?

etchyed:

What does the travel card have to do with me? I agree it needs work...
But the metallic triquetra entrance sign is better than what is currently mooted it has potential. The more we debate the more we learn.

irish & proud:

It's going to be interesting when they running out of colours!

Typewriter

etchyed wrote: »

tbh I had thought of it as well

Did you post it?

etchyed wrote: »

and someone else posted it in one of those mock-ups using the Dublin Bus logo.

Yeah that was me.

etchyed wrote: »

No offence but it's not the most original idea in the world.

Someone's jealous. :rolleyes:

leshamry

etchyed wrote: »

According to Victor a few posts up it's currently intended that Metro North be branded the Blue Line.

whats the logic behind it?

leshamry

dubhthach wrote: »

Well each "leaf" represents one of the county councils with the centre point representing the city.

One on North -> Fingal
Two on south -> "South Dublin" and Dun Laoire/Rathdown

thats why the logo works well maybe that's the sham?;)

BluntGuy

Irish and Proud wrote: »

...I think the most important thing is that the signs are easily associated with transport. I for one would like to see sleek modern signs for all Metro and Dart stations - probably on a standard circular plate.

In any case, I've come up with a scheme for naming and colouring LUAS, METRO and DART Lines - the DART Lines are named after the mainline stations which they pass through, while Metro North is named after Parnell Square through which it passes, so here goes:

DART 1 - Bray/Greystones to Maynooth/Pace (M3)
Colour: Solid Light Green - Name: Connolly Line

DART 2 - Hazelhatch to Drogheda
Colour: Solid Dark Green - Name: Heuston Line

METRO NORTH - Stephen's Green to Lissenhall (M1)
Colour: Solid Dark Blue - Name: Parnell Line

METRO WEST - Tallaght to Dardistown (Metro North)
Colour: Solid Orange - Name: Orbital Line

LUAS B & D Lines - Cherrywood to Finglas
Colour: Outline Green - Name: Green Line (Stephen's Green)

LUAS A & C Lines - Tallaght/Citywest to Connolly/Point
Colour: Outline Red - Name: Red Line (Red Cow Interchange)

LUAS F (Lucan) Line - Lucan to Dame Street
Colour: Outline Blue - Name: Blue Line (goes past Bluebell)

...I devised the above a couple of weeks ago!

What do you guys think?

Like it, but, if we're gonna go with names for lines, I think they should all have names. Maybe Luas Red -> Tallaght Line, Luas Green -> Central & South City Line, Lucan Line is Lucan Line.

Someone also came up with the idea of using route numbers as in Amsterdam and I think that could work very well too.

This is just, an example of how it could be done. Not saying it's perfect or anything, just an idea...

Route 001 - St.Stephen's Green - Belinstown (MN)
Route 002 - St.Stephen's Green - Airport (MN)
Route 003 - St.Stephen's Green - Sandyford (LG)
Route 004 - Liffey Junction - Bray (LG)
Route 005 - Liffey Junction - Fassaroe (LG)
Route 006 - Lucan - St.Stephen's Green (LL)
Route 007 - Connolly - Tallaght (LR)
Route 008 - The Point - Citywest (LR)
Route 009 - Tallaght - Dardistown (MW)
Route 010 - Tallaght - Airport (MW)
Route 011 - Tallaght - St.Stephen's Green (MW)
Route 012 - Blanchardstown - St.Stephen's Green (MW)
Route 013 - Greystones - Maynooth (D1)
Route 014 - Greystones - Pace M3 (D1)
Route 015 - Hazelhatch - Howth (D2)
Route 016 - Hazelhatch - Dundalk (D2)
Route 017 - Inchicore - Howth Junction (D2)

You might not agree with my choices of routes, but I think you'll agree there's a vast array of options for different routes available (even more if they provide more turnaround facilities).

etchyed

green_jesus wrote: »

Yeah that was me.

Deeply sorry.:p

leshamry wrote:

whats the logic behind it?

How am I to know? All Victor said was that the current thinking in the RPA was to name it the Luas blue line.

noelfirl

leshamry wrote: »

noelfirl:

good design can be cheaper...
Good design can last longer and have cheaper maintenance costs the idea of loads of glass entrances really spells out the writing is on the wall.

Can be, but in this country tends not to be. Case in point: someone here recently explored the ridiculous over-costing of the James Joyce Bridge relative to its original estimate, mainly because the Bridgeman of Alcatraz Valencia was involved. We as a rightly fecked nation of generally deplorable economic viability are in no position to be wasting tons of money on design that will prove of little use to the end user, when what is critical in functionality. It would be horrendously inappropriate to start redesigning stations to fit individual styles (re: some mock Georgian style Stephen's Green - probably the worst and most wasteful design suggestion I have ever heard) just to appeal to some minority and win some limited kudos that quite frankly will have negligible effect on boosting appeal either to tourists or commuters. Above all else, these pseudo-uber-Celtic style ideas are IMO shockingly twee, clichéd and downright embarrassing.

So it's ok to spend 1 billion on interest payments and bank fees?
Advertising costs? Overzealous management? Questionable financial auditors? Smart cards that can overcharge you and put 70,000 in your bank account by mistake. Good design can make the state money.
Is good design one gauge? one depot? one company?

Where did I suggest any of this is OK? This is just waffle.

leshamry

noelfirl wrote: »

Where did I suggest any of this is OK? This is just waffle.

In the scheme of the banking system good design is cheap.
That's the only point I'm making.
uber celtic icons are national symbols for a reason.
They are registered trademarks of the government?
Are you suggesting it be de-registered?
What do you think of airlingus? or falite Ireland? of the Harp for the department of finance?