Swine Flu Vaccination + general swine flu chat thread

Raiser

Bruce2008 wrote: »

Well, considering you have no faith in the HSE and you think the staff "lack basic manners and were unhelpful to the point of ignorance" then maybe you should do yourself and the HSE staff a favour and go to your local doctor!!

GP will want €50 - I pay enough taxes to expect a service, I also reserve the right to have standards - common courtesy and decency never costs anything

Bruce2008

Raiser wrote: »

I pay enough taxes to expect a service, I also reserve the right to have standards - common courtesy and decency never costs anything

HSE staff pay taxes too, they also expect common coutesy and decency from people visiting the clinics... you only have to meet a few of them... they have to meet a lot of you (i.e. patients) and I'm sure not all of the people they meet have the high levels of common courtesy and decency that you have ... not saying that is an excuse for returning bad manners... but if you have a problem with one or two then I think you should raise the matter there and then...

Anyway back to the subject of the posts!!

As for the vaccine, who knows what to believe about side effects... loads of safe facts and loads of scare facts... same with every subject... everybody has to weigh up what they believe to be the fors and againsts and make the decision...

Does anybody know what vaccine the HSE are giving in their clinics? does this differ from the doctors vaccine? is their a choice? some people are talking about high levels of mercury in one type of vaccine compared to the other? Anyone have more info on this?

implausible

Bruce2008 wrote: »

Does anybody know what vaccine the HSE are giving in their clinics? does this differ from the doctors vaccine? is their a choice? some people are talking about high levels of mercury in one type of vaccine compared to the other? Anyone have more info on this?

Apparently, the vaccine in the HSE clinic doesn't contain mercury or the adjutant (spelling?) which makes it work faster. The one that most GPs have contains mercury (but very little afaik) and the adjutant, but this one works much quicker. As I'm pregnant, I'm going for the HSE one, just in case.

Quiet Lurker

The HSE are writing to all parents of under 5's at present calling them for vaccination over the next 2 weeks. The vaccine will not be given by GP's.
GP's are only being given enough vaccine to treat the high risk group.

On a seperate note I was in company tonight with 2 carers who work for HSE in East region who were discussing travelling together during the week to get swine flu vaccine at a HSE clinic and being paid at least a half days wages + travelling to attend !!!!! They already did the same 3 weeks ago for the ordinary flu vaccine. Strange eh?

AmcD

Raiser wrote: »

GP will want €50 - I pay enough taxes to expect a service, I also reserve the right to have standards - common courtesy and decency never costs anything

As far as I am aware GPs will not charge for giving the vaccine (my practice doesn't). As mentioned by QuietLurker, GPs are only being given just enough vaccines to vaccinate the high risk patients. We are turning away people who are not in high risk groups and directing them to our local HSE clinic.
The HSE clinics are getting Celvepan, which has no thiomersal/mercury/preservative. This means it has to be used up within 3 hours. GPs are being given Pandemrix, which has a tiny amount of thiomersal. These multidose vials can be used for up to 24 hours. The mercury in the vaccine is only used as a preservative, it doesn't affect how quickly the vaccine works. Both vaccines take 2 weeks to establish immunity. There was some controversy over squalene in Pandemrix. As far as I am aware this is present in that vaccine to cause an effective immune response with a much smaller amount of virus particles.
The most recent HSE bulletin has given some advice on the number of shots needed. Anybody who gets Celvepan needs two shots. With Pandemrix, adults who are not immunocompromised (e.g. pregnant women, healthcare workers etc) just need one dose.

Ann22

After reading all these posts and this (that someone posted earlier in the thread) http://www.newscientist.com/special/swine-flu-myths-that-could-endanger-your-life
I feel the wisest thing to do is to get vaccinated. At work today a woman was telling the others that her sister who is a nurse was afraid to get the vaccine as she didn't know about the long term side effects. Their family seem to be into natural remedies and stuff..you know those people who only take honey for colds and won't take even take a panadol for a headache:rolleyes:...Anyway, one of the women listening has a grandson who suffers from extremely high temperatures when he's sick, his mother is anxiously trying to decide whether or not to have him vaccinated. If he was my child I'd definitely have him done however I suspect the other woman frightened the granny. I'd be surprised if she didn't run the whole way home to tell her daughter not to have the wee fella vaccinated after that. I tried to tell her that my cousin's wife is a district nurse and she had herself and the two kids done yesterday...dunno if it made a difference.
A friend of my husband's workmate died suddenly yesterday, 3mths pregnant, with a toddler at home. My thoughts and prayers are with her family. Strong rumours that she had swine flu. I don't know if it was the woman mentioned on the news. If it was, someone passed it on to her. Maybe someone who only had a mild dose. People say they'll take their chances without a vaccination that 'so and so had it and they were grand'....but what about all those they could be passing it on to who won't be ok?:(

locum-motion

Ann22 wrote: »

... If it was, someone passed it on to her. Maybe someone who only had a mild dose. People say they'll take their chances without a vaccination that 'so and so had it and they were grand'....but what about all those they could be passing it on to who won't be ok?:(

Very well put, Ann.

JP Liz

I got the vaccine on wednesday last (asthma ) and my arm hurts like hell still and is swollen it this normal?

Ghost Train

JP Liz wrote: »

I got the vaccine on wednesday last (asthma ) and my arm hurts like hell still and is swollen it this normal?

some of drug documentation (celvepan) says if side effects last longer than a day or two you should consult a doctor

or from hse

What if I don't feel well after vaccination?
Take paracetamol or ibuprofen if you have a fever or any pain where the injection was given. If you are pregnant, take paracetamol for fever, not ibuprofen or aspirin. Avoid clothes rubbing against the injection area and drink plenty of fluids. Remember if you or a child is unwell after getting a vaccine, they could be sick for some other reason – don’t assume it’s the flu vaccine and take medical advice if needed.

Ann22

I rang my local health dept and was told my son can just call in to the clinic anytime for the vaccine without an appointment, grand. He's having it done Tues.
There's been something on my mind today...Did any of you read about the little girl that was in the paper the other day.. that was critically ill after being treated with Tamiflu? Seemingly it was meningitis she was suffering from, not Swine flu. Is she ok does anyone know? I assume the child mentioned in the news that died in the East from Swine flu is another child(?)....the same goes for the pregnant woman who supposedly died from it, I wonder if it was the same woman who died suddenly in my town the other day? I don't think it's been verified yet what happened to her, strange if another pregnant woman died on the same day. I'm just wondering when the news announced two more deaths from H1N1, did they have their facts right?

locum-motion

Ann22 wrote: »

I rang my local health dept and was told my son can just call in to the clinic anytime for the vaccine without an appointment, grand. He's having it done Tues.
There's been something on my mind today...Did any of you read about the little girl that was in the paper the other day.. that was critically ill after being treated with Tamiflu? Seemingly it was meningitis she was suffering from, not Swine flu. Is she ok does anyone know? I assume the child mentioned in the news that died in the East from Swine flu is another child(?)....the same goes for the pregnant woman who supposedly died from it, I wonder if it was the same woman who died suddenly in my town the other day? I don't think it's been verified yet what happened to her, strange if another pregnant woman died on the same day. I'm just wondering when the news announced two more deaths from H1N1, did they have their facts right?

Yes, Anne, as far as I know the woman who died in Dk the other day was the woman on the news.

DARK-KNIGHT

ok i just want to say that both myself (asthma) and my wife (pregnant) - due today awww lol both got vaccinated 2 weeks ago yesterday and we are both alive and well!

when will people learn to stop listening to scare mongering? jesus i get sick and tired reading posts from a certain cliche here being negative about this vaccine!

if you dont want to take it then dont but please stop worrying parents and the general public with bull****e about this vaccine being a curse!

god damn you people!!!!!

btw maybe im ranting but i am right you know:cool:

dloob

According to the news they had a big surge of pregnant women today at the HSE clinics.
Sadly it took a death for people to realise how serious it can be.

The_Conductor

dloob wrote: »

According to the news they had a big surge of pregnant women today at the HSE clinics.
Sadly it took a death for people to realise how serious it can be.

Ditto in the maternity hospitals......
Holles Street was pandemonium with the vast majority of pregnant women seeking the vaccine.....

I don't understand why people were acting so surprised?

Peach1

There was a poster earlier [can't find it] that said it would cost him 50 euro to go to the doctor to get the vaccine. It won't.

I was called for my shot on 28th October as I'm in the high risk group. All I was asked to bring was my PPS number. The consultation and the vaccine were free.

Turtwig

smccarrick wrote: »

Ditto in the maternity hospitals......
Holles Street was pandemonium with the vast majority of pregnant women seeking the vaccine.....

I don't understand why people were acting so surprised?

Sadly,
They thought swine was just a "flu".
I blame the media, as it really should do a better job. Instead of just citing concerns it should, you know, investigate them.

It's not too bad here (Prime Time did a good job), but you should see some of the reports in the mainstream media in the US : they're horrifying.:mad:

metrovelvet

Ok this may be obvious to everyone else but can someone please tell me how to distinguish regular flu symptoms from swine flu?

sam34

metrovelvet wrote: »

Ok this may be obvious to everyone else but can someone please tell me how to distinguish regular flu symptoms from swine flu?

ask your doctor

metrovelvet

The doctors office is closed.

sam34

emergency/out-of hours doctor etc

The_Conductor

metrovelvet wrote: »

The doctors office is closed.

This may help- The UK's NHS site and the World Health Organisation Site

I'd seriously recommend visiting a doctor and being properly examined as soon as possible- the internet is in no manner a substitute for a consultation with a medical professional. Ring your GP in advance- most have seperate surgeries for those with suspected infectuous disease- you don't want to give Swine Flu to a waiting room full of patients queuing with other issues..........

Dr Galen

HSE 24 hr Flu Information Line Freephone 1800 94 11 00 - for up to date recorded information on Swine Flu

http://www.hse.ie/eng/swineflu/

metrovelvet

^ Thanks. I dont have any suspicions that me or anyone in my household has it, but there are so many things going around among the tiddlywinks these days, that I want to know what to look for and how it is dinstinguished from something else. My little one has not been well, NOt swine flu, but his immune system is run down and susceptible, and I just want to be aware. Thats all. Not looking for diagnosis, and no impending emergency. Thank you guys for the links. Its very conusing with the information and misinformation.

Dr Galen

it certainly cane be alright. there is a lot of mis-information floating around, chinese whispers if you will. Then you have the conspiracy nuts, sreading even more nonsensical rubbish about.

I know people of a really high level clinical level, coming out with some crazy stuff too, so unfortunately its not limited to the ordinary man on the street. Hope the wee one is alright, and that you get some clarity on the real issues around Swine Flu

metrovelvet

its also confusing because 30-50 thousand people a year die in the US from regular flu and so far 4000 in the US have died from swine flu, so Im not getting why this is scarier.

The_Conductor

metrovelvet wrote: »

its also confusing because 30-50 thousand people a year die in the US from regular flu and so far 4000 in the US have died from swine flu, so Im not getting why this is scarier.

The age profiles of those involved?
Regular flu targets the elderly and those with compromised immune systems to a large extent- whereas the elderly actually have a degree of relative immunity to Swine flu because of their exposure to previous influenza strains. Younger people (in particular those born since 1976) are particularly vunerable to Swine Flu.

People who expect to be at the peak of their health are catching swine flu- and those who also have compromised immune systems are really getting whacked.......?

tallaght01

PLus the US haven't had a swine flu winter yet. People keep comparing 6 months of swine flu summer/spring figures with 12 months of seasonal flu figures fro previous years, which includes winter.

locum-motion

Don't be blinded by pseudo science: the swine flu shot is safe

By Ciara Kelly
Sunday Independent November 15 2009

Despite the half-truths and misinformation, there is no debate -- vaccines actually save lives

WALKING on Thomas Street in Dublin last Thursday night I came across a poster stuck up on a bus stop which said: "The swine flu vaccine is dangerous -- do not get it," in big bold print, and a lot of other incorrect, misinformed twaddle which I wouldn't bother repeating. I read it, dismissed it and was about to walk off, when I changed my mind and tore it down instead.

I didn't want anyone who perhaps didn't know enough about swine flu vaccination to read it and be swayed by its semi-literate rant.

That happened the same night as, sadly, the first pregnant woman and unborn child in this country died of swine flu.

She had no underlying medical illnesses. These two things are connected. I don't know whether that woman tragically developed swine flu before the vaccine became available or indeed anything else about her case, except the fact that somewhere in Ireland this week a family is grieving the loss of a much-loved, perfectly healthy young woman with her whole life ahead of her.

But what I do know is there are many people out there who have been so frightened by the junk science that the anti-vaccine lobby peddles that they're too afraid to immunise themselves against serious preventable illnesses.

Vaccination programmes, from influenza and small pox to the MMR, have indisputably eradicated fatal illnesses and saved millions of lives worldwide. They're arguably medicine's greatest success story, possibly even our greatest human endeavour, but we've short memories and they've now become victims of their own success.

People no longer remember the gripping fear of their child developing diphtheria or measles. Now, instead of fearing potentially life threatening diseases, we're afraid of the vaccine that protects us from them.

One of the main reasons that fear is out there is the airing of misinformation and half-truths by the media in a blind attempt at 'balance' in the 'debate' on vaccines.

To be honest, there is no debate. Vaccines save lives. Diseases that we've bothered to develop vaccines against kill you. That's the bottom line, QED. The only balance necessary in the debate on vaccines is whether the potential risk of a serious reaction to the vaccine -- generally miniscule -- is outweighed by the potential risk to your health or your life from the disease if you contract it, generally reasonably high.

The balance is almost always in favour of vaccination and that's with all vaccines from Pertussis (whooping cough) to the MMR.

But it's very hard to argue against junk science. You could be Stephen Hawking and understand the minutiae of the Big Bang theory, but if you're debating against a histrionic person who bleats "I just know you're wrong and I feel it's really dangerous to get it and it'll do unspecified terrible things (fill in your own personal fear here) to my healthy child," then you're fighting a losing battle.

I've seen it myself in television debates: experts coming undone in the face of highly emotive nonsensical claims. When, over time, these claims are exposed as claptrap you'll never hear an apology or a retraction.

The junk scientists will just move their focus to their next 'heartfelt' issue.

I'd like to say that the anti-vaccine lobby is merely irresponsible but that simply wouldn't be true. We're all responsible for our own actions so they bear the responsibility for theirs.

If they convince even one person not to vaccinate themselves or their child against a fatal illness, and that person or child contracts that illness and dies, then the anti-vaccine campaign has played a role in that death.

Three children died here in 2000 from measles, after an orchestrated campaign against the MMR attempting to link it to autism -- something that has been irrefutably shown to be completely untrue.

Please always remember that any death or serious complication arising from an illness that is vaccine- preventable is an unnecessary tragedy that could have been avoided.

Swine flu in the vast majority of cases is a mild- to-moderate disease, which will pass after about a week with simple measures like rest, fluids and paracetamol, but that's not the case for everyone.

Pregnant women, even young, strong, healthy pregnant women, because of their lowered immunity, are four times more likely to develop complications from swine flu such as pneumonia.

They're 10 times more likely to require treatment in intensive care. In my memory, I can't recall a vaccination campaign ever before aimed at pregnant women -- in the main we advise pregnant women to stay away from all medications.

The only reason why pregnant women are being urged to get the vaccine is we know that it's safer for them to be vaccinated than to get H1N1 -- of which there were 27,000 new cases this week and we all have up to a one-in-two chance of contracting.

I completely understand the fear any pregnant woman has about doing something inadvertently which could harm her unborn child.

I also understand that sometimes when you are being bombarded with information, you don't know what to believe -- and that as a society we've lost confidence in our institutions.

But the time for listening to the carpet-baggers and snake-oil salesmen is passed. All the papers reported it as the 'first' pregnant woman to die here from swine flu, but there's no reason why she should not also be the last.

One family experiencing that devastation is already too many. Don't be swayed by reckless scaremongering. Get the facts. Get the vaccine.

Ciara Kelly is a Wicklow-based general practitioner

Turtwig

I've seen it myself in television debates: experts coming undone in the face of highly emotive nonsensical claims. When, over time, these claims are exposed as claptrap you'll never hear an apology or a retraction.

It only takes a second to tell a lie; a year or an eternity to correct it.

Vorsprung

The potential mix up between swine flu and meningitis was highlighted to medics in the ED I'm in, and there was mention of a kiwi study which looked at this very subject. Can't find it on PubMed though, anyone else know of it?