Swine Flu Vaccination + general swine flu chat thread

CathyMoran

The_Saint wrote: »

Does anyone here know why there's a delay of 3 months for pregnant women before they can receive the vaccine?
I don't know why, but if there are concerns over its impact at the early stages of pregnancy, what are they? and why is it safe to administer at exactly 3 months.
Due dates and dates of conception can be miscalculated at that stage so a 3 month calculation could mean a two month in reality so are the concerns actually only for upto 2 months... or what's the issue with that aspect?

You can get a dating scan that is very accurate. Also, those already in an at risk group are encouraged to get it earlier. As far as I know it is 14 weeks plus for normal pregnant women. I got it last thursday and was 15 weeks at the time, I am also in a few at risk groups (type 1 diabetic and my husband is on immunosupression for crohns...)

nesf

sharmini wrote: »

Heres my concern.......we are being told that gp attendences are up in relation to poss swine flu cases....however , gps are not routinely swabbing..so how do we know how many CONFIRMED cases we have?

Ok, a short explanation on how influenza works:

Every year there's a flu season when the vast majority of flu cases happen. Each year all the different flu strains are competing with each other for hosts and each year a different small group of these will be the dominant strains and cause the vast majority of flus. It's an evolutionary battle between humanity's immune system and the influenza virus in all its forms.

Now, each year you can take swabbings from a thousand or so people and get a very clear picture of which subtypes of flu are the dominant ones this year. This allows a seasonal flu vaccine to be developed for the elderly and so on and in general it works pretty well. This year the new H1N1 strain of swine flu will be competing for customers with all the other flu subtypes.

Now, the swabbings this year have shown that swine flu has been outcompeting all the other types of flu and is the dominant strain. (By a large margin or so I believe) This means quite simply that if someone in Ireland gets flu this year it's very likely that it's going to be swine flu and not another subtype of flu. The cases of "normal flu" this year will most likely be far smaller than normal because of this.

This allows there to be a pretty decent estimate of total swine flu cases by using the same system we always use to track influenza. We have a subgroup of doctors report all cases of suspected flu that they see. From our swabbings we can work out what percentage of these will be swine flu on average. This allows an estimate for the population to a made with a good degree of accuracy. CONFIRMED cases aren't necessary to have a good estimate, flu viruses don't work in such a fashion. If swine flu didn't compete with normal flu then yes, we'd need to do a lot more swabbing but since it does and since it means that normal flu won't infect many people this year we don't need to do that.

The_Conductor

nesf wrote: »

Now, the swabbings this year have shown that swine flu has been outcompeting all the other types of flu and is the dominant strain. (By a large margin or so I believe) .

In an Irish context- I believe H1N1 is now just under 70% of all reported influenza cases (and rising). There are about 6 other flu variants jockeying for the other 32%.

Peach1

Just a word to those still thinking about whether or not to get the vaccine. I thought I might share my response to the vaccine since I received it much earlier than most. For interest only, as individual responses could be very varied.

I am in the high risk group and was offered the vaccine last Wednsday 28th October which I happily accepted.

No response the first two days other than swelling and slight soreness at he site of injection. However on the third day I developed a high temp [100 f], a sore throat so bad I couldn't speak, the shakes, and nausea. I was in bed, flat on my back for two days. Advice from the doctor was to take NurofenPlus to keep the temp down and drink plenty of fluids. [Nurofen may not be suitable for some people but is for me].

On the third day the symptoms eased a little, temp down to 99, the sore throat disappeared and I got what seemed like a heavy cold very quickly.

Today, Tuesday, all symptoms are very quickly resolving by the hour. The raised temperature is completely gone and I'm feeling fine, just tired. No lung involvment whatsoever, which would have been a sure thing with me if this was a live viral infection.

Despite all this I am utterly delighted to have had the opportunity to have the vaccine. If this was my body's response to a dead virus how on earth would it have coped with the real thing.

Also it seems that if you have a strong reaction there is less likely a need for a follow up shot three weeks later, especially if the initial vaccine was Pademrix, which has an adjuvant to provoke a strong immune response.

Would love to know how others are dealing with it. My immune system is very compromised and may have had to work much harder to create antibodies. Hopefully others will make their antibodies with less fuss than my body did.

samson09

samson09 wrote: »

Does anyone know how many trials are currently taking place wrt pregnant women and the H1N1 vaccine?

The only trial I can find is this one that is testing Sanofi Pasteur's unadjuvanated vaccine and it isn't finished until July 2010:

A Phase II Study in Pregnant Women to Assess the Safety and Immunogenicity of an Unadjuvanted Sanofi Pasteur H1N1 Inactivated Influenza Vaccine Administered at Two Dose Levels

http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00963430?term=NCT00963430&rank=1

Still cant find anything (scratches head and continues the search)

tmdsurvey

Peach1 wrote: »

No response the first two days other than swelling and slight soreness at he site of injection. However on the third day I developed a high temp [100 f], a sore throat so bad I couldn't speak, the shakes, and nausea. I was in bed, flat on my back for two days.

I would worry how an adverse reaction might affect my pregnant wife and our child....

Turtwig

tmdsurvey wrote: »

I would worry how an adverse reaction might affect my pregnant wife and our child....

Well ask your GP for specifics regarding their health,

But coldly you are far far more likely to get a worse adverse reaction from the flu than you are the vaccine.

Someone (me?, Tallaght?? nesf???) quoted the specifics before.

Peach1

tmdsurvey wrote: »

I would worry how an adverse reaction might affect my pregnant wife and our child....

I quite understand your anxiety, but I have to agree with the above poster.....far better to deal with a dead virus than a million live ones. Two women, each about 16 weeks pregnant were vaccinated the same time as me. In fact one of the main targets in this first sweep of vaccinations is pregnant women [15 weeks and beyond] and new Mums [up to 6 weeks].

Sadly the reason for this is that more pregnant women are suffering serious complications, and some dying, from swine flu than are the general poplulation.

A normal immune response to the vaccine will cause no problems to a pregnant woman or to the baby, though mildly unpleasant. In fact a strong immune response indicates there may be no need for a second shot.

Paracetamol is allowed in most pregnancies to conteract any raised temp that may be involved in an immune response to the vaccine, as very raised temperatures are a risk in pregnancy. I speak generally, and every woman's own obstetrician or GP is the best person to speak to.

I know that if I were pregnant I would have the vaccine in a shot. And the medical recommendation is clear. But it is a personal choice.

Hope you and your pregnant wife keep well.:)

PS: Since I last posted, every symptom I listed above in reaction to the vaccine, has cleared completely.

JohnMatthews

smccarrick wrote: »

In an Irish context- I believe H1N1 is now just under 70% of all reported influenza cases (and rising). There are about 6 other flu variants jockeying for the other 32%.

Reported swine flu cases are an "estimate" of the actual number.

tallaght01

JohnMatthews wrote: »

Reported swine flu cases are an "estimate" of the actual number.

BUt the proportion isn't. If a million swabs come into a lab that test positive for influenza, and 700,000 are +ve for swine flu, then it's safe enough to make assumptions that 70% of the flu out there is swine, after a bit of adjustment for a few variables. This does become a bit less reliable as the GPs stop testing people, and you rely on smaller numbers that get tested in A+Es. But in oz, we had about 83% of flu was swine flu this year.

JohnMatthews

tallaght01 wrote: »

BUt the proportion isn't.

And exactly how many swine flu cases have been actually confirmed in this country?

tallaght01

JohnMatthews wrote: »

And exactly how many swine flu cases have been actually confirmed in this country?

ive no idea.

JohnMatthews

tallaght01 wrote: »

ive no idea.

Exactly.

Turtwig

JohnMatthews wrote: »

Exactly.

And how many exactly have *insert ailment here*?

Really you're clutching at straws here, most figures are estimates.
Funny thing is estimates are usually set up to be conservative rather than exaggerated.

JohnMatthews

Malty_T wrote: »

And how many exactly have *insert ailment here*?

Really you're clutching at straws here, most figures are estimates.
Funny thing is estimates are usually set up to be conservative rather than exaggerated.

I think you are reading too much into my post. I merely asked for a number for the actual confirmed swine flu cases, given the seriousness of this flu would that be too much to ask?

tallaght01

JohnMatthews wrote: »

I think you are reading too much into my post. I merely asked for a number for the actual confirmed swine flu cases, given the seriousness of this flu would that be too much to ask?

it would be too much to ask. Who will ever know exactly how many flus happen in a country?

In terms of positive swabs, the results from yesterday will be different to the figure today.

We were talking about proportions, not crude numbers.

JohnMatthews

tallaght01 wrote: »

it would be too much to ask. Who will ever know exactly how many flus happen in a country?

I can't believe I am reading this.

I did not ask "how many flus happen" and I don't really care, I want to know how many swine flu cases have been confirmed.

tallaght01 wrote: »

In terms of positive swabs, the results from yesterday will be different to the figure today.

Oh I agree with you here, give me yesterdays figures.

tallaght01 wrote: »

We were talking about proportions, not crude numbers.

I thought scientists dealt with raw data?

tallaght01

JohnMatthews wrote: »

I can't believe I am reading this.

I did not ask "how many flus happen" and I don't really care, I want to know how many swine flu cases have been confirmed.



Oh I agree with you here, give me yesterdays figures.

No offence, but the forum isn't a secretarial service. You have the same access to information that the rest of us do.

sam34

hrududu,

as per our charter, and the big sticky on the first page, we cannot give personal medical advice here.

discuss your query with your doctor.

tmdsurvey

Malty_T wrote: »

Well ask your GP for specifics regarding their health,

But coldly you are far far more likely to get a worse adverse reaction from the flu than you are the vaccine.

Someone (me?, Tallaght?? nesf???) quoted the specifics before.

Yes I know the 'specifics' were quoted and I appreciate the responses I recieved.

We were erring on the side of getting the vaccine and my wife discussed it with her doctor and she was told "you are perfectly healthy and I do not recommend you get the swine flu vaccine or would I recommend the standard flu vaccine if the case were appropriate". The doc went on.. "In my opinion a women should avoid taking any medicines during her pregancy as much as possible". In the end she said it was our decision but the expert sitting on the fence doesnt fill me confidence.

Having spoken to our doctor maybe now you can see where I am coming from, Malty T? If she recommended getting the vaccine we would surely have.

I do not disagree that the risks to both mother and child can potentially be significant if my wife catches swine flu. But I would add that you have to catch the swine flu before the risks regarding it may commence which are known, but when you get the vaccine you may be opening the door to unknown risks. This is not an easy decision but there are no facts as to the long term damage the vaccine may do to the foetus, or maybe you have some 'specifics' you might want to share with me.

Peach1

Just an udate on responses to the vaccine. My husband and son, both asthmatics but with strong immune systems, had the HINI vaccine two days ago.

The only side effects they felt were tenderness at site of injection the following day, feeling more tired the second day, and my son had a very mild sore throat that evening that was gone today. Nothing else. All mild reactions have now cleared completely [day 3].

So they dealt with the vaccine with far less fuss than my immunosuppressed immune system [listed above]. Their response is therefore the more likely immune response among healthy people.

IvyTheTerrible

I saw a really interesting article in New Scientist, busting some of the myths about swine flu. It's easy to read and would be worth reading for a lot of the worried lay people.

http://www.newscientist.com/special/swine-flu-myths-that-could-endanger-your-life

therewillbe

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

I saw a really interesting article in New Scientist, busting some of the myths about swine flu. It's easy to read and would be worth reading for a lot of the worried lay people.

http://www.newscientist.com/special/swine-flu-myths-that-could-endanger-your-life

Thanks for that link,Easy reading for the guy on yhe street.i got my jab on Monday, so far so good apart from the soreness were the needle went in.The wife got hers yesterday as she is just six months pregnant.We were offered the choice of "with mercury or without" the latter was taken up at a health centre.Yhe queue was out the door so I advise to book online as you are seen to first.

Ann22

My asthmatic son is in Ncad in Dublin, he commutes from Dundalk every day. I'd like him to have the vaccine, however the clinic here that does it runs three days a week 9-5. He's reluctant to take the time off college to have it done and he'd never be home in time. Do any of the colleges carry out vaccines for students or do they attend general clinics. Does anyone know where the nearest clinic to Ncad (-Thomas St, dublin 8) would be?

Dr Galen

to be honest Ann your best bet would be to give the HSE a call and ask them.

Mcloke

Can somebody tell me the name of both vaccines and which one is mercury free please.
Thanks

Ann22

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

to be honest Ann your best bet would be to give the HSE a call and ask them.

Thanks Mystik Monkey for your reply. I did ring the hse, constantly engaged. I checked the website..they give addresses in Dublin of clinics but I have no sense of direction.. My son asked the college doc secretary this morning, she didn't know anything about it and told him to check tomorrow morning.
I was almost convinced that it's the right thing to do but my mother has a very negative attitude about the vaccine and is putting me off the idea a bit:(. My response to her was 'mam stop listening to auld fellas on park benches(actually, she was listening to an auld fella in her warfarin clinic who was telling her about paralysed rats in labs:eek:), the experts are advising us to get it so listen to those who know what they're talking about'..............Was I right??
I've a terror of him reacting badly to a vaccine and it'll be all my fault for encouraging him to go for it......................and my mother will say 'I knew it was the wrong thing to do'..if he doesn't get it and catches Swine flu she'll say 'he should've got the vaccine, I thought you said it was the right thing to do!'...Hence my indecision:(.

Raiser

This is a very general question and I understand that it may not be possible to answer with any accuracy whatsover.

I am currently anxious to have my 4 year old vaccinated - She has no asthma or any other illness but I would still like it done ASAP.

When can I expect to hear from the HSE and get called in under the normal schedule they have implemented? (Kids up to age 5yrs)

Are they calling in people by Surname A-Z, Locality etc? Are we talking about waiting weeks or potentially months? It seems too vague for me to make an informed decision and am uncomfortable about it.

If I am worried should I just ring around to find a GP and pay €50 for the shot?

- I have no faith in the HSE to manage this in any efficient, logical or responsible manner and in fact witnessed this in their Clinic in Limerick when I bought my asthmatic Son on advice of my GP - Unfortunately some of these People showed a resentment to meeting the Public, lacked basic manners and were unhelpful to the point of ignorance.

Elessar

Raiser wrote: »

This is a very general question and I understand that it may not be possible to answer with any accuracy whatsover.

I am currently anxious to have my 4 year old vaccinated - She has no asthma or any other illness but I would still like it done ASAP.

When can I expect to hear from the HSE and get called in under the normal schedule they have implemented? (Kids up to age 5yrs)

Are they calling in people by Surname A-Z, Locality etc? Are we talking about waiting weeks or potentially months? It seems too vague for me to make an informed decision and am uncomfortable about it.

If I am worried should I just ring around to find a GP and pay €50 for the shot?

- I have no faith in the HSE to manage this in any efficient, logical or responsible manner and in fact witnessed this in their Clinic in Limerick when I bought my asthmatic Son on advice of my GP - Unfortunately some of these People showed a resentment to meeting the Public, lacked basic manners and were unhelpful to the point of ignorance.

All the info you need is here - on the HSE website - http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/swineflu/vaccine/who/

Phase two is for under fives, you will get called. You cannot purchase the shot, it is the HSE who is administering it, so you have to wait to get called. Try not to worry.

Bruce2008

Raiser wrote: »

This is a very general question and I understand that it may not be possible to answer with any accuracy whatsover.

I am currently anxious to have my 4 year old vaccinated - She has no asthma or any other illness but I would still like it done ASAP.

When can I expect to hear from the HSE and get called in under the normal schedule they have implemented? (Kids up to age 5yrs)

Are they calling in people by Surname A-Z, Locality etc? Are we talking about waiting weeks or potentially months? It seems too vague for me to make an informed decision and am uncomfortable about it.

If I am worried should I just ring around to find a GP and pay €50 for the shot?

- I have no faith in the HSE to manage this in any efficient, logical or responsible manner and in fact witnessed this in their Clinic in Limerick when I bought my asthmatic Son on advice of my GP - Unfortunately some of these People showed a resentment to meeting the Public, lacked basic manners and were unhelpful to the point of ignorance.

Well, considering you have no faith in the HSE and you think the staff "lack basic manners and were unhelpful to the point of ignorance" then maybe you should do yourself and the HSE staff a favour and go to your local doctor!!