debaptism

Sam Vimes

tell you what Jakkass, I'll accept a school discriminating as long as it receives no government funding and as long as there are government funded alternatives. That's not the case today

Sam Vimes

Jakkass wrote: »

I'm not sectarianised at all following my education both primary and secondary. So one can conclude that is a load of nonsense?

Just because you weren't doesn't mean no one is. Many people in the north certainly are

Sam Vimes

Jakkass wrote: »

It isn't discrimination if you are to run a school with a Catholic ethos to consider those who actually want to have their children know about Catholicism. I think that is entirely reasonable. Anyone else who wants to take the initiative to set up a school can. Hence why you have Educate Together schools cropping up. Encouraging choice for parents to have a religious education for their children is totally reasonable. If people want secular education they should either:
a) Let the Government know of the demand.
or
b) Take the initiative towards setting up the schools themselves like Educate Together groups have.

Um, yes it is discrimination as long as there are no alternatives as is the case in the vast majority of the country and as long as the government is funding it

Jakkass wrote: »

That's the best I can do on boards.

Right so it's not that you're not trying, you just don't think it'll work

Jakkass wrote: »

Right, but you still have atheists in other categories such as C.S Lewis, Francis Collins who were atheists until their adult lives when they accepted Christianity.

Firstly you could fit the number of people like that in the world probably on a single sheet of paper, they are statistically insignificant. And I don't understand how CS Lewis was ever an atheist because from what I've seen of his work, none of it makes any more sense than any other christian reasoning. He did not logically come to god any more than anyone else. Personally I'd say he was probably an anti theist rather than an atheist, unless he got a bang on the head that messed up his brain and made him forget reason. Or how does he explain why he was an atheist, in as few words as possible please

Jakkass wrote: »

As I say, that may be your stance. Others generally are turned off Christianity because of hypocrisy.

Then those people are anti religion, not atheists. I'm talking specifically about atheists. As I've explained before, there's a difference between disagreeing with the practices of a religion and not believing in it, which you accepted. You will never convince someone to believe in the supernatural by showing them how well christians live their lives

-osborne-

Well if you decide to get married and leave the church officially, you can’t get married in a church, that’s were most women would probably like to get married and going through the whole rigaramole of explaining to her of what you did, you might come across as immature. I don’t believe in god but I still considered myself catholic I know I’m a hyprocate, you don’t know how your life will pan out, your faith could come back to you in later years so if I were you I would just forget about the idea cause in the end it seem like too much work for the end result of getting a little certificate

wudangclan

-osborne- wrote: »

Well if you decide to get married and leave the church officially, you can’t get married in a church, that’s were most women would probably like to get married and going through the whole rigaramole of explaining to her of what you did, you might come across as immature. I don’t believe in god but I still considered myself catholic I know I’m a hyprocate, you don’t know how your life will pan out, your faith could come back to you in later years so if I were you I would just forget about the idea cause in the end it seem like too much work for the end result of getting a little certificate

it's unlikely i would ever marry in a church and it's unlikely that i would marry someone who would insist i marry in a church. thanks anyway for the advice.

philologos

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Um, yes it is discrimination as long as there are no alternatives as is the case in the vast majority of the country and as long as the government is funding it

Right, I've said that there should be alternatives. I think your blame should lie with the Government for not fitting the demands of a sizeable portion of the population.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Right so it's not that you're not trying, you just don't think it'll work

I'm not trying to convert anyone on boards. Again, I've already dealt with this.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Then those people are anti religion, not atheists. I'm talking specifically about atheists. As I've explained before, there's a difference between disagreeing with the practices of a religion and not believing in it, which you accepted. You will never convince someone to believe in the supernatural by showing them how well christians live their lives

What a cop out. They don't believe in God. Hence they are atheists. Changing the goalposts is rather convenient. That is who I am referring to.

jaffa20

Joey the lips wrote: »

This high horse nonsense is just getting stupid. Think about it I am not the daft one that wants to clense myself of the faith

Who is going to do it! answer that!

As for you leaving like I said good for you!

Are you looking for someone to clense you!

For 200 euro I come cheap, I even throw in a certificate which can be used in part exchange if you decide to take up voodooo!

See how daft it all becoming. But thats fine you stay in dream world believing I am on a horse!

Have you ever considered this! That I consider the OP to be so mindless of faith that he cannot realise that priests, nuns and all these baxtards are only instraments of the church, See what I am morally guilty of is understanding this and not accepting crap that its the priests fault!
Off course its the priest fault but the buck stops there if the op realised that the only conclusion he's come to is the priest has no right to be judgemental! Which would you not agree is perfectaly acceptable

But guess what the op was to declare he is abondoning the church! Who is he declaring this to!!! The priest! we have established we think he is daft so why do we care! God! oh wait we actually want to tell god! so that implies we believe in god, we are just going to tell him to get stuffed!
Or maybe we are just angry and want the world to know we are ditching the catholic faith!! Guess what! the world does not give a dam

Am I getting through to you or are you going to stay on the horse!

Your original question was Is there a need for me to say this! Maybe not as a christian I should accept people but as I am myself I cannot help it if stupidity annoys me! (O and by the way I am not implying that the op is stupid just the concept)


Bray head has been rented! 200 euro and a framed cert!

Just take a chill pill!

You sound so bloody angry all the time on boards.

Really, is it anything to do with you for whatever reasons they would want to be debaptised.

If you think there is no need to then, there is perhaps no need to be baptised at all in the first place. Who are you trying to convince? What is the point? If you want to be catholic then follow the book itself without having holy water thrown over your head. Will it make a difference if you live your life the way you are meant to as a catholic in eyes of God in the end?

This is the argument you are using for being against debaptism so i'm just showing you that the same can be said for baptism.

InFront

jaffa20 wrote: »

You're missing the point. Schools shouldn't be defined by religious or non religious grounds in the first place.

Well that's just theoretical. Personally I'm with the law on this. The law essentially says if you want to set up a school, you may do so provided you satisfy the curriculum. Anything surplus you teach (the school relgion, tying knots, economic policies of the third French Republic) is none of their business.

What happened was Catholicism was big here and a lot of Catholics went and set up their own schools. Quakers came and did the same. Then the Jews did it. In the 1980s the Muslim community did it.

Please tell me why the atheists do not do it?

I am not a Christian and I was lucky enough to go to two great Christian schools in Ireland. The Christian community actually deal with admissions very fairly, they never had to accept me. I think atheists, without being overly 'indebted' should show some gratitude too. You may set up your own school and apply for funding, as Jakkas pointed out this is what Educate Together have done. Has anyone ever done this from an atheist perspective and if not, why not?

philologos

jaffa20 wrote: »

If you think there is no need to then, there is perhaps no need to be baptised at all in the first place. Who are you trying to convince? What is the point? If you want to be catholic then follow the book itself without having holy water thrown over your head. Will it make a difference if you live your life the way you are meant to as a catholic in eyes of God in the end?

Yes. It will. There is a purpose to baptism:

Romans 6:3-4 wrote:

Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? Therefore we have been buried with him by baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

I agree with you entirely on the anger thing though. We can express our views calmly

Joey the lips

jaffa20 wrote: »

Just take a chill pill!

You sound so bloody angry all the time on boards.

Really, is it anything to do with you for whatever reasons they would want to be debaptised.

If you think there is no need to then, there is perhaps no need to be baptised at all in the first place. Who are you trying to convince? What is the point? If you want to be catholic then follow the book itself without having holy water thrown over your head. Will it make a difference if you live your life the way you are meant to as a catholic in eyes of God in the end?

This is the argument you are using for being against debaptism so i'm just showing you that the same can be said for baptism.

Well now that a good point I suppose I do seem angry. For that I apologise most sincerly! Its not ment that way. Its just a couple of things annoy me for example on this thread while i thing some priest actually many priests have been guilty of it I dont think the whole faith should be condemed but as you say I need to relax!

again I apologise if I come across annoyed! Thanks

Acacia

Joey the lips wrote: »

Well now that a good point I suppose I do seem angry. For that I apologise most sincerly! Its not ment that way. Its just a couple of things annoy me for example on this thread while i thing some priest actually many priests have been guilty of it I dont think the whole faith should be condemed but as you say I need to relax!

again I apologise if I come across annoyed! Thanks

It helps! If! You don't use! So many! Exclamation marks!

Joey the lips

Acacia wrote: »

It helps! If! You don't use! So many! Exclamation marks!

Now thats just being picky, would you like me to get down and lick the ground your royalness!!!!!!!!!!

Acacia

Joey the lips wrote: »

Now thats just being picky, would you like me to get down and lick the ground your royalness!!!!!!!!!!

Holy Moly, I was just trying to offer some constructive criticism. Relax the cacks, there!(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Joey the lips

Acacia wrote: »

Holy Moly, I was just trying to offer some constructive criticism. Relax the cacks, there!(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

See I gathered that and actually I was not serious its just the way I come across. I think a PI is in order. Thanks again.

Acacia

Joey the lips wrote: »

See I gathered that and actually I was not serious its just the way I come across. I think a PI is in order. Thanks again.

Right so.

johnnyskeleton

Nehaxak wrote: »

..but really, is there any official way of doing it without becoming a Protestant or something ??

Becoming a protestant is the official way of doing it.

mehfesto2

Dougal: (trying to pray) Hail Mary who art in heaven.......
Ted: Hallowed.
Dougal: Oh yeah. Hallowed Be....
Ted: Thy Name...
Dougal: Papa Don't Preach........
Ted: Dougal, you know you can praise the lord with sleep.
Dougal: Really Ted? You can praise him in lots of ways, like that time you said that I could praise him just by leaving the room.
Ted: Yes, that was a good one !

:P

Nehaxak

Originally Posted by Romans 6:3-4
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? Therefore we have been buried with him by baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

You're assuming (or believing) he lived in the first place, then died, eh, then magically came back alive. Strangely enough a lot of people these days think that's just a load of rubbish, a poor b rating movie script at best, something for the feeble minded of the world.
If people had a choice at all, they probably wouldn't have been baptised in the first place nor have chosen any religion.

From what I've seen in my own life, people get their kids baptised mostly due to peer pressure, a need to fit into their society and some inane fear of their kids being open to being possesed by the devil if they're not baptised. Yes, I have actually heard that last one myself being said to me in regards my position of not getting my own kids baptised or giving them any religion.
My answer was a simple fúck off... she was my sister after all :rolleyes:

Given that people had no choice at birth of being baptised or having a religion forced upon them, they are well within their rights when old enough to understand and if their views have changed, to seek a debaptism for themselves.

Myself personally, I think anyone who is overtly religious, preaches the bible, quotes scripture etc., has a mental sickness and like any member of a cult, can be cured of this illness given time and willingness to be open to their own mind and free will to understand that - really, honestly, it's all just a fancy story made up by people who sought ultimate power over others to control them, their minds, their gestures and anything else they wanted them to do, up-to and including physical and sexual abuse of children (at least for the Catholic church in Ireland, that seemed to be the main underlying nature of their use of this power they had over people).

The meek shall not inherit the earth, the meek are feeble minded, the way those controlling you want you to be. "Ssshhh, don't say anything, it's ok you can trust me, I'm a priest, you're doing this to help God".

Seaneh

Nehaxak wrote: »

You're assuming (or believing) he lived in the first place, then died, eh, then magically came back alive. Strangely enough a lot of people these days think that's just a load of rubbish, a poor b rating movie script at best, something for the feeble minded of the world.
If people had a choice at all, they probably wouldn't have been baptised in the first place nor have chosen any religion.

From what I've seen in my own life, people get their kids baptised mostly due to peer pressure, a need to fit into their society and some inane fear of their kids being open to being possesed by the devil if they're not baptised. Yes, I have actually heard that last one myself being said to me in regards my position of not getting my own kids baptised or giving them any religion.
My answer was a simple fúck off... she was my sister after all :rolleyes:

Given that people had no choice at birth of being baptised or having a religion forced upon them, they are well within their rights when old enough to understand and if their views have changed, to seek a debaptism for themselves.

Myself personally, I think anyone who is overtly religious, preaches the bible, quotes scripture etc., has a mental sickness and like any member of a cult, can be cured of this illness given time and willingness to be open to their own mind and free will to understand that - really, honestly, it's all just a fancy story made up by people who sought ultimate power over others to control them, their minds, their gestures and anything else they wanted them to do, up-to and including physical and sexual abuse of children (at least for the Catholic church in Ireland, that seemed to be the main underlying nature of their use of this power they had over people).

The meek shall not inherit the earth, the meek are feeble minded, the way those controlling you want you to be. "Ssshhh, don't say anything, it's ok you can trust me, I'm a priest, you're doing this to help God".

Nice match box theology there, keep up the good work there buddy, maybe someday you won't have to regurgatate crap spewed by people a million times and debunked just as many times.

The Histocracy Jesus is not questioned by ANY established historians (christian or otherwise) the only thing debated is his devinity and the accurrace of the gospels.

To say Jesus didn't exist at all just shows your ignorence on the issue you are trying to debate. and so makes the rest of your post pointless and non-worthy of my time.

Good luck baiting others though.

InFront

Nehaxak wrote: »

anyone who is overtly religious, preaches the bible, quotes scripture etc., has a mental sickness

Just noticed another post by you about the Catholic Church and education.

I presume your daughters walk out of class when mental sickness is taught in the school you voluntarily send them to?

Nehaxak

InFront wrote: »

Just noticed another post by you about the Catholic Church and education.

I presume your daughters walk out of class when mental sickness is taught in the school you voluntarily send them to?

My Son and my Daughter actually and what exactly did you mean or where you just trying to make a personal nasty attack in some way and include my children in that ?

My kids are both excluded from religious teaching in their school, as are similarly other kids at the school. Thankfully their teachers and principal are all absolutely fantastic and would not in any way force religion upon their pupils. It's a choice at the school, even if it is a Catholic school, religion is still a choice to be learned not an absolute must and any parent can ask for their children to be excluded from religious teachings, which many do.

Nehaxak

Oh and I just noticed your signature, http://www.al-islamforall.org/Litre/Englitre/hrinisl.htm human rights in Islam, now there's a great laugh...

When I was working in Afghanistan, up in the North Eastern province of Taloqan (bandit Taleban country, very Islamic) the female children of the families became the "property" of their fathers to do with "as they please" once they have reached puberty.
Women of all ages were openely punched and beaten in the streets by these great brave men.

Human rights me arse, great so long as your not a girl/woman, don't drink alcohol or draw pictures of a so called prophet.

At least in Ireland my daughter can actually go to school and get an education even if she is female, nevermind religion.

InFront

Nehaxak wrote: »

My Son and my Daughter actually and what exactly did you mean or where you just trying to make a personal nasty attack in some way and include my children in that ?

I'm not a guy for personal attacks so I'm not even going to rise to your bait about Afghanistan, and if that was supposed to be insulting you've failed.

I'm just interested as to why a guy who refers to an overt/ expressed belief in religion as mental sickness would send his children to a school where such mentally sick people are involved in the instruction of young children?

Would you have your kids be taught in an institution for the mentally ill or insane? Would you have your kids be taught by pateints therein?

Your attack on Islam means nothing for me. I would at least have respect for you if you practiced what you say you believe and sent your children to another school (e.g. E.T.) instead of relying on a Catholic one. It's just empty rhetoric, you say it but you don't mean it - man that **** really pisses me off.

Nehaxak

InFront wrote: »

I'm not a guy for personal attacks so I'm not even going to rise to your bait about Afghanistan, and if that was supposed to be insulting you've failed.

Wasn't an insult at all, it was the truth. Horrible country, horrible people, feel so sorry for the women and children of that country and what they have to go through in the name of the religion pushed upon them.

I'm just interested as to why a guy who refers to an overt/ expressed belief in religion as mental sickness would send his children to a school where such mentally sick people are involved in the instruction of young children?

...as I've stated, there are no mentally sick people who impose or overtly express their religious beliefs on to others at the school my children attend. There are no priests in the school either and as I've said, my children and other children are excused from all religious teaching if they so wish. This I hear is not the norm though in other schools.

Would you have your kids be taught in an institution for the mentally ill or insane? Would you have your kids be taught by pateints therein?

No ? Would you ? ...but again, including my children in your replies ? why ?
Is this all you have to come back with, a rebuttal including my children to in some way attack me ? Pretty sick to be honest but just proves my point in that regards as to religious people really and their illness.

Your attack on Islam means nothing for me. I would at least have respect for you if you practiced what you say you believe and sent your children to another school (e.g. E.T.) instead of relying on a Catholic one. It's just empty rhetoric, you say it but you don't mean it - that **** really pisses me off.

Have you really not gotten the point yet of what people have said many times in this and other similar threads ? Here, let me shout it . . . THERE ARE VERY FEW NON-CATHOLIC SCHOOLS IN IRELAND !!!
Even at that, the places available for your kids to join ANY school, let alone a non-Catholic one, are virtually non existant and my kids were on the waiting list for their school before they were even born.
Coupled with the fact I wanted my children in a Gael Scoile where class sizes are low, they get a much better education, can speak and are thought in their own language - the choices are very limited for any parent.

Far as I'm concerned, there should be NO religion thought to children at school, none whatsoever. All current publicly funded religious schools should be taken over and nationalised fully by the state and have religion removed completely from their teachings. This would also go some way to removing the peer pressure on parents and kids to be part of any particular religion, baptisms, communions, confirmations and all that crap.

seanybiker

Ah jaysus. There are way to many religious threads lately. Im gonna start believing so I can pray that people will stop talking about jebus all the time.
Good job people dont post bout everything they dont like. Im not into religion. I dont like cheese either. Why cant we all talk about how cheese is horrible instead of jebus all the time.

4zn76tysfajdxp

seanybiker wrote: »

Im not into religion. I dont like cheese either. Why cant we all talk about how cheese is horrible instead of jebus all the time.

Because you're wrong about cheese.
Ugh, I made an anti-religion joke. I feel like such a hack...

InFront

Nehaxak wrote: »

Wasn't an insult at all, it was the truth. Horrible country, horrible people, feel so sorry for the women and children of that country and what they have to go through in the name of the religion pushed upon them.

I'd say you are missed.

there are no mentally sick people who impose or overtly express their religious beliefs on to others at the school my children attend.

Who teaches the children the Catholic faith and prepares them for the religious ceremonies? Who teaches them the prayers of mental sickness? Are you sure a priest doesn't ever visit the school whose board he sits on? Are you sure there are no morning and after noon prayers like other catholic schools? Are you sure you did not send your children to a school that features overt religious iconography or art by the children that deals with bible messages? Are you sure there might not be a few bible quotes around the place?

You see if you really believed that such overt expressions of faith were mental sicknesses, what would that say about your parenting?

Have you really not gotten the point yet of what people have said many times in this and other similar threads ? Here, let me shout it . . . THERE ARE VERY FEW NON-CATHOLIC SCHOOLS IN IRELAND !!!

Well there are fifty-six educate together schools in Ireland and a good number of them in North Dubln which is your profile location - surely that's a better option since they really take a more individual approach to religion.

Or was the school patronised by the institution for the mentally ill just a closer distance?

including my children in your replies ? why ?

Well, largely because you brought up the issue of your children right here on the internet. When you call expressions of religious faith mental sicknes, and then you send your children to a school of the Catholic faith owned by a Christian Church, you have to wonder how much you really mean what you say. I think it's a fair point.
Personally, if I genuinely believed a school was advocating mental sickness I'd rather home school my kids than send them there. Did that ever cross your mind?


Finally, all of these schools we have today in ireland, be they Catholic or Protestant, E.T., Non-denominational, Quaker, Jewish or Muslim schools - they were started by parents in the local community and community leaders who then applied for state funding.

Why do no atheists do this?

seanybiker

Tristian Huge Handgun wrote: »

Because you're wrong about cheese.
Ugh, I made an anti-religion joke. I feel like such a hack...

That maybe right, I will find out on judgement day but Im still gonna email Mr dairylea and ask for a certificate of non cheesiness off him.

4zn76tysfajdxp

seanybiker wrote: »

That maybe right, I will find out on judgement day but Im still gonna email Mr dairylea and ask for a certificate of non cheesiness off him.

Could you not just become a Galteetant?

seanybiker

Tristian Huge Handgun wrote: »

Could you not just become a Galteetant?

No way man. Their even worse. Extremists.
Tis tough finding a non dairy school for me kids.