Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
debaptism
Options
Comments
-
-
punk_one82 wrote: »Was there any need for that? OP wants to officially get out of an organization he doesn't believe in and has no time for. What's wrong with that? Just because you may be a practicing catholic doesn't mean OP's beliefs or wants are wrong. Time for you to get down off your high horse mate, just like the rest of the practicing catholics like you. Sheep blinded by lies imo. OP, if you find out how to do it, I'd like to know too.
Time for me to get off my high horse???? Are you serious or just plain daft! I am not the one serching for someone to debaptise me!
But seen as you have decided to join in ask yourself this question! Who is worthy of the task???? as in what profession do you need to have to debaptise!!!! Think about it before replying!
See while I may be practising i could not give a sh1t if everybody in ireland except me wants to be muslim, church of ireland or nothing! I have never stood up and declared that any one who does not follow me is wrong! I dont care. But I have never seen stupidity in the highest than people sitting down and wanting to clense themselves of the catholic faith!
As I said, who gives a dam! for 200 euro I will do it for them, There is noting more daft! Like I said who is worthy of the cause!!! Think about it then you may start to realise that your supporting a daft goal!
Better still if you want to support a worthy cause join concern! at least you might actually contribute instead of taking more nonsense!0 -
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
It is a strange response but then religion is a strange old thing. Some people would never go to mass, never pray and never even think about god but still be shocked by the idea that somebody wouldn't believe in himI think that's a bit of a strange response to people who are different to you. I see atheism as rather normal. It reminds me when one of my friends brought another friend of his that I didn't know over to me, and says "Meet x, he's an atheist", and then to his other friend he says "This is Gar, he's a Christian". Like I was meant to be shocked by the existence of atheists in the world, or indeed like I had never seen any before. I then shook his hand and greeted him and started discussing about other things as he said that he wasn't interested. People work in funny ways sometimes.
Sorry Jakkass but I just can't accept that. You're not trying to bring people to god, just trying to challenge them to think about it. You're not attempting to convince people, you're just discussing it. You're not trying to give convincing arguments, you're just trying to refine your positions. And you're not attempting to convert because you don't expect it to work. It's all just semantics, you are clearly trying to bring people to christ on boards.On the internet, no I think evangelism isn't effective via the internet. I far prefer relating to people I can actually see and know what they are like rather than talking with people who don't have a clue about who I am, and me talking to people I don't have a clue who they are. It isn't my expectation of motive to bring people to God on boards but rather so that they might be challenged to think about it, and that I might be challenged to refine some of my positions which I have done in the past if they are indeed reasonable.
The claim that you think it probably won't work or that you're kind of doing it for practice for real life situations does not change the fact that you are attempting to do it
You have already said that you think evangelism is a good thing so why deny it?
With people who have rejected christianity over things like this scandal you might be right but with atheists you're really not. You'll remember your thread on A&A where you tried to get in the head of an atheist and give what you think are the reasons they don't believe, most of which were emotional reasons like "christians can be hypocritical". And you'll remember that someone separated out all the emotional reasons and said "these are not reasons", leaving only three, the three intellectual ones the only one of which I can remember being "miracles seem absurd". You really should listen to him because he was speaking the truth. The reason I and 99% of atheists don't believe is because the whole thing seems absurd, simple as that. There is no emotion involvedMost of what evangelism is to me isn't dazzling arguments, or amazing rhethoric, but rather it is relating to people how we feel that God through Jesus Christ related to us in our lives in a personal way. I don't think most objections to Christianity are intellectual, but are rather more emotionally driven than people make them out to be.
. I don't hate christianity, I just don't believe in it because it was clearly invented in the desert 2000 years agoBy the church in general are you referring to global Christianity, or the global Catholic Church?
Well the only church I'm associated with is the catholic church so that's the only one I can leave. But I'd rather no church leaders had their opinions listened to as if they were experts and that we listened to people who follow reason instead of an old book that didn't actually come from the place they think it did0 -
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
I'd say a lot of atheists will baptise their children because, while if a company gave someone second preference because they were muslim they'd find themselves in court because it's illegal under the equality act 2004, it's apparently ok for schools to employ religious discrimination.
Faith schools are allowed to give preference to their ethos due to being a school for a particular faith. If children from other religions were given first priority the ethos would no longer exist. I think that's fairly reasonable. If people want to set up secular schools as I and InFront have said there is nothing to stop them taking the initiative.
Also a religion isn't a company, it doesn't serve to make a profit. Infact if a church makes a profit off Christianity, I find that to be rather appalling given Christ's teachings on the subject of weath.But, unfortunately, there aren't many (any?) non-religious state primary schools. I don't think anyone of any faith would say that's OK. But on the other hand there's hardly any room for litigation, everything seems to be legal and, maybe even fair from the schools p.o.v.
Indeed. In total agreement here.There is nothing to prevent an atheist schol opening along the same grounds as the Islamic Primary School, for example, or the many Catholic ones.
Yes, that's also true.It is a strange response but then religion is a strange old thing. Some people would never go to mass, never pray and never even think about god but still be shocked by the idea that somebody wouldn't believe in him
That is extremely strange to me (the response that is). What is the point in playing a facade? I like you would like Irish people to be honest about their religious beliefs so the churches can know where they stand in the future, and so people can know the reality and the truth basically.Sorry Jakkass but I just can't accept that. You're not trying to bring people to god, just trying to challenge them to think about it. You're not attempting to convince people, you're just discussing it. You're not trying to give convincing arguments, you're just trying to refine your positions. And you're not attempting to convert because you don't expect it to work. It's all just semantics, you are clearly trying to bring people to christ on boards.
The claim that you think it probably won't work or that you're kind of doing it for practice for real life situations does not change the fact that you are attempting to do it
I am trying to give convincing arguments, but I have no intention on boards to convert anyone to Christianity. Infact I doubt it can readily happen on a discussion board. I believe that true evangelism depends more on relating to other people as people and getting to know them better so that you can relate the Gospel to them. Likewise I don't think shouting down the street telling someone they are going to hell is effective evangelism. I don't even think that people will change their minds. If anything, I will understand atheists better, I will understand Muslims better (thanks to my discussions on the Islam forum in the past), and hopefully the rest of you will understand Christians better. If I could just clear up the misconceptions and nonsense that people spout about Christianity here, that would be enough of a mission.You have already said that you think evangelism is a good thing so why deny it?
It's great when it is done properly in the outside world.With people who have rejected christianity over things like this scandal you might be right but with atheists you're really not. You'll remember your thread on A&A where you tried to get in the head of an atheist and give what you think are the reasons they don't believe, most of which were emotional reasons like "christians can be hypocritical". And you'll remember that someone separated out all the emotional reasons and said "these are not reasons", leaving only three, the three intellectual ones the only one of which I can remember being "miracles seem absurd". You really should listen to him because he was speaking the truth. The reason I and 99% of atheists don't believe is because the whole thing seems absurd, simple as that. There is no emotion involved.
I think there is more to atheism than intellectualism, I really do. No human makes any decision purely on reason, but also on empiricism and on emotional factors. Like anything else there are emotional factors to atheism even if people don't like to discuss them. It is what I would expect from any normal human activity. By saying there is no emotion involved at all, you are telling me that losing faith is not a normal psychological activity. That's what I find so hard to believe about it.
Anyhow, I think the most convincing way people could show others about Christianity is if people put their money where their mouth is and start doing as Christ commanded them, and start doing with the Jewish prophets and the Apostles commanded them.I don't hate christianity, I just don't believe in it because it was clearly invented in the desert 2000 years ago
It isn't so clear to the rest of us. Were Israel, Lebanon, central Turkey, Cyprus, Malta, Greece and Italy considered the desert?
Well the only church I'm associated with is the catholic church so that's the only one I can leave. But I'd rather no church leaders had their opinions listened to as if they were experts and that we listened to people who follow reason instead of an old book that didn't actually come from the place they think it did
I don't think church leaders should be put on a pedestal. However, I think that most are qualified given that they have studied theology and studied how the Bible is laid out and they have probably studied one Biblical language if not two (I know that in most you have to study either Ancient Greek or Biblical Hebrew). Also, can't an old book be reasonable? I've found many things that have struck me from it's pages that make sense regarding how to live my life or how a particular Biblical author understood the world. I'd argue the relevance today is the same then, now and forever.0 -
-
I'm not sure why you even mentioned the fact that schools don't make a profit, it doesn't seem in any way relevant. The equality act says nothing about religious discrimination being ok as long as you don't make a profit. The fact is that schools are the only institution where religious discrimination is accepted and I don't think it's right. In fact Dawkins said and I agree that if people stopped segregating children in the north based on their parents' religion (because there's no such thing as a catholic child or a protestant child), the problems would be gone in a generationFaith schools are allowed to give preference to their ethos due to being a school for a particular faith. If children from other religions were given first priority the ethos would no longer exist. I think that's fairly reasonable. If people want to set up secular schools as I and InFront have said there is nothing to stop them taking the initiative.
Also a religion isn't a company, it doesn't serve to make a profit. Infact if a church makes a profit off Christianity, I find that to be rather appalling given Christ's teachings on the subject of weath.
So you're trying to give convincing arguments but you're not trying to convince anyone
I am trying to give convincing arguments, but I have no intention on boards to convert anyone to Christianity. Infact I doubt it can readily happen on a discussion board.
I can see how you put connotations on the word convert that can't be achieved here so let's stop using that word. Can you at least admit that you are attempting to "bring people to christ", whether you think you'll get a full fledged conversion or not? Can you admit that you're trying to make people think about it enough to go and look it up for themselves and hopefully convert?
You say "losing faith" but I started a thread on A&A asking people if finding out about santa clause shook their faith and started them on the road to atheism and the answer I got from everyone was "I never really believed", which is the same as myself. So we didn't lose faith, we never had it because it never made any sense to usI think there is more to atheism than intellectualism, I really do. No human makes any decision purely on reason, but also on empiricism and on emotional factors. Like anything else there are emotional factors to atheism even if people don't like to discuss them. It is what I would expect from any normal human activity. By saying there is no emotion involved at all, you are telling me that losing faith is not a normal psychological activity. That's what I find so hard to believe about it.
. When I was a kid it was just this place that bored me on a sunday and as soon as I was old enough to understand I thought it was a load of crap. I stopped going to mass and 13 and only went for a year before that so I wouldn't get in trouble.
Honestly, you will never convert an atheist through emotional reasoning, that's not why they don't believeIt isn't so clear to the rest of us. Were Israel, Lebanon, central Turkey, Cyprus, Malta, Greece and Italy considered the desert?
I don't know exactly where they made it up. I know large parts were decided in Nicea a few hundred years laterI don't think church leaders should be put on a pedestal. However, I think that most are qualified given that they have studied theology and studied how the Bible is laid out and they have probably studied one Biblical language if not two (I know that in most you have to study either Ancient Greek or Biblical Hebrew). Also, can't an old book be reasonable? I've found many things that have struck me from it's pages that make sense regarding how to live my life or how a particular Biblical author understood the world. I'd argue the relevance today is the same then, now and forever.
An old book can be reasonable but when it's going on about miracles and stonings and how it's the one true way to imaginary cloud paradise it has shown that this particular book is not reasonable. And, to get back to the point of the thread, even if we accept the book as reasonable, it has been amply shown that just claiming to follow the book doesn't make someone reasonable0 -
Advertisement
-
-
I'm not sure why you even mentioned the fact that schools don't make a profit, it doesn't seem in any way relevant. The equality act says nothing about religious discrimination being ok as long as you don't make a profit. The fact is that schools are the only institution where religious discrimination is accepted and I don't think it's right. In fact Dawkins said and I agree that if people stopped segregating children in the north based on their parents' religion (because there's no such thing as a catholic child or a protestant child), the problems would be gone in a generation
You are calling it a business. Hence profit would be the key difference. Churches in Ireland are not business, they are non-profit, as are their schools. Hence referring to them as businesses isn't a great example.
As for "religious discrimination". It isn't "religious discrimination" to promote an ethos in schools, it never has been legally. I don't think that it is wrong that schools promote their ethos, but like InFront, I think there should be more secular state schools. However parents should always have the option of sending their children to Catholic, Church of Ireland, Muslim or Jewish schools where there are significant populations of each. Sounds fair to me.So you're trying to give convincing arguments but you're not trying to convince anyone
If I get people thinking about it that is enough for me, and if I can challenge some of the misconceptions and sheer nonsense that people can come out with that is great. Whether or not you want to accept Christianity is up to you.I can see how you put connotations on the word convert that can't be achieved here so let's stop using that word. Can you at least admit that you are attempting to "bring people to christ", whether you think you'll get a full fledged conversion or not? Can you admit that you're trying to make people think about it enough to go and look it up for themselves and hopefully convert?
I don't attempt on boards to bring people to Christ. I am aiming to clear up misconceptions and to challenge people to think about Christianity for themselves. Looking it up for themselves and deciding for themselves doesn't necessarily mean conversion, it could also mean being informed enough not to make ignorant comments about Christianity.Honestly, you will never convert an atheist through emotional reasoning, that's not why they don't believe
There are many cases that would disagree with you in former countries under atheistic regimes. As for "emotional" reasoning that isn't what I meant. I mean merely showing them what Christianity is like instead of telling them what it is like. There is a difference. People are skeptical when they don't see what people profess as well. I have no reason to assume that atheism has nothing to do with emotion, it may vary between people.I don't know exactly where they made it up. I know large parts were decided in Nicea a few hundred years later
This is a misconception. The Gospels and the Bible were written hundreds of years before Nicea. At the Council of Nicea they chose based on criteria of authenticity what should be the authoritative texts of Christianity. Feel free to discuss this on the Christianity forum if you need clarification.
As for making it up, you don't know if they did at all irrespective of where. Let's have a bit of honestyAn old book can be reasonable but when it's going on about miracles and stonings and how it's the one true way to imaginary cloud paradise it has shown that this particular book is not reasonable. And, to get back to the point of the thread, even if we accept the book as reasonable, it has been amply shown that just claiming to follow the book doesn't make someone reasonable
Of course. One can talk the talk but not walk the walk.0 -
-
-
-
-
-
As for making it up, you don't know if they did at all irrespective of where. Let's have a bit of honesty
i thought it was accecpted as fact that there are various versions of the new testament,which changes being made since constantines time in order to sell christianity to a roman audience.in other words the rock on which christianity is built is one of deception.that that deception would continue into the modern day is no surprise with todays' pope having being explicitly involved in the cover up of the abuse of children,including the various bishops,archbishops ,cardinals etc here.
let's have a bit of honesty indeed.0 -
-
Advertisement
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7hDnKtc9oM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt1XaPf6J5E
Advertisement