Alternative Energy Suppliers

manna452121

They have called to me on 10 occassions.When I spoke to the last person he said they get a list and call back every 2 months.Some of my neighbours have changed but the guys still call to them,they do not even have a list of their own customers.

Our man in Havana

I dont know what services Bord Gais have in this regard but with Airtricity I get a text every two months to submit a meter reading so at least its always pretty accurate.

That is the best part of being with Airtricity. No more pesky estimated bills.

IrishTonyO

Haddockman wrote: »

That is the best part of being with Airtricity. No more pesky estimated bills.

you never have to have estimated bills with whoever you are with, you can send in meter readings any time you want

Max Power1

IrishTonyO wrote: »

you never have to have estimated bills with whoever you are with, you can send in meter readings any time you want

Yes but you dont get text reminders!

manna452121

Maybe I have this wrong but are the bills not on a 6 week duration and not 8 weeks.

Our man in Havana

They are 8 weekly periods but they do not correspond to ESB billing cycles.

louis346789

We have switched supplier and would like to be able to check the ESB electricity price on a particular day to ensure that the new supplier is applying the correct discount. anyone know where to find this information ?

Fnergg

Irish Times piece on a customer's shoddy treatment by the British owned utility Airtricity:

http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/pricewatch/2010/09/24/a-sad-letter-on-a-friday-evening/?sms_ss=twitter

Regards

Fnergg

Our man in Havana

And the horrible thing is they will have to pay €100 for the attempted disconnection.

The moral of the story is that the new entrants do not want and will not tolerate people who don't pay in full every 2 months. If you ever feel you are going to be in trouble, move back to ESB quickly. At least they have some compassion.

Fnergg

Haddockman wrote: »

And the horrible thing is they will have to pay €100 for the attempted disconnection.

The moral of the story is that the new entrants do not want and will not tolerate people who don't pay in full every 2 months. If you ever feel you are going to be in trouble, move back to ESB quickly. At least they have some compassion.

The €100 disconnection/reconnection fee was in fact foisted on the electricity suppliers by the Regulator.

This was on the basis of the "polluter pays" principle i.e. the full costs are to be borne by the individual customer.

Prior to the Regulator insisting on the full costs being paid by the individual customer they were spread across all customers as part of the electricity pricing mechanism. They amounted to approxiamtely €3 per customer per year. The actual costs paid by the individual were nominal - around €6 or so.

One school of thought - shared obviously by the Regulator - maintains that the general body of customers should not have to pay for the sins of the few and that if customers find themselves at the receiving end of disconnection activity they should foot the full costs themselves. Why should the rest of us have to pay?

Another viewpoint is that the poor will always be with us, that customers who fall on hard times are being burdened with significant additional costs and that the sharing of such costs by the general body of customers - especially in these difficult economic times - is compassionate and appropriate.


Regards,

Fnergg

Our man in Havana

I feel they should only have to pay these fees where an actual disconnection takes place.

The energy regulator has done more harm than good in my humble opinion.

vandammaged

We should have none of them and there should be wind turbines in everyones home and free energy for all.

All theses companies are just making money.

Fnergg

Haddockman wrote: »

I feel they should only have to pay these fees where an actual disconnection takes place.

The energy regulator has done more harm than good in my humble opinion.

Costs are incurred by ESB Networks when they are requested by a supplier such as Airtricity, Bord Gais or ESB Customer Supply to call out and disconnect supply.

The call-out is to withdraw supply - not to serve as a reminder or as a final warning. It may well happen that on the day supply is not withdrawn because of extenuating circumstances such as illness or if the supplier, having spoken to the customer by phone while the Networks Technician is at the house, advises the NT not to disconnect.

Disconnection or no disconnection what the customer has to pay for is the actual cost of the call-out. ESB Networks has to divert the NT away from other work and there is a cost for that. Disconnection consists of just removing a main fuse so the cost of that is minimal: what the customer has to pay for is the time involved in having an NT call to the house. ESB Networks cannot be expected to foot the cost of such visits. They pass on the cost to the suppliers and neither can they be expected to absorb them. The end result is that the customer pays.

The Regulator could, presumably, revert the decision to get the individual customer to pay for all the costs and opt instead for an arrangement whereby the costs - or at least those for domestic customers - could be spread across all customers through the electricity pricing mechanism. I don't think it would be more than €10 per customer per year, if that.

Personally, I'd have no objection to paying such a small amount. We are living in difficult times and they are going to get a lot worse. More and more customers are going to find themselves in difficulty with their electricity bills and many are going to be disconnected or at least be faced with an ESB Networks call-out the cost of which, in addition to the bill they have to pay, will be a crushing burden.

Surely, in these circumstances we as a nation should show some compassion to our less well-off fellow citizens and help to ease the burden a little? Surely the Regulator can for once dispense with his ideological committment to the polluter pays principle? Unfortunately, I would not be optimistic in that regard.

Regards,

Fnergg

Max Power1

Haddockman wrote: »

And the horrible thing is they will have to pay €100 for the attempted disconnection.

The moral of the story is that the new entrants do not want and will not tolerate people who don't pay in full every 2 months. If you ever feel you are going to be in trouble, move back to ESB quickly. At least they have some compassion.

Not really horrible imo. If people paid their bills there wouldnt be a problem. Its well documented that the newer suppliers take a very no-nonsense approach to non-payers or late payers. As you say, if you feel that this is a possible issue, maybe the "big switch" isnt the best option for you.

discostu1

Saw a piece in the paper today Flogas offering 20% off gas for new customers looked up their website and in fairness they have the increase in standing charge up front unlike Airtricity who hid it for the first couple of weeks, good spot by someone on Boards.
Anyway rang. same discount as Airtricity but with the exception of going dd none of the other t&cs sounds good, anyone any issues experience of Flogas

Max Power1

discostu1 wrote: »

Saw a piece in the paper today Flogas offering 20% off gas for new customers looked up their website and in fairness they have the increase in standing charge up front unlike Airtricity who hid it for the first couple of weeks, good spot by someone on Boards.
Anyway rang. same discount as Airtricity but with the exception of going dd none of the other t&cs sounds good, anyone any issues experience of Flogas

I have flogas for about 9 months now. 12% discount (i think), its definitly alot cheaper than BG were anyway, and no direct debit or deposit needed either.

Id be hesitant to move to Airtricity, and have one DD for both gas and electricity. If it fails, they will cut you off promptly, and you would be left with no gas or electricity. Ill be keeping my utilities billed seperately! (I am with Airtricity for electricity though)

Ogham

discostu1 wrote: »

Saw a piece in the paper today Flogas offering 20% off gas for new customers looked up their website and in fairness they have the increase in standing charge up front unlike Airtricity who hid it for the first couple of weeks, good spot by someone on Boards.
Anyway rang. same discount as Airtricity but with the exception of going dd none of the other t&cs sounds good, anyone any issues experience of Flogas

That Flogas 20% Off is a bit of a con - the standing charge is almost double that of Bord Gais. They are cheaper - but it's a bit cheeky trying to claim it's 20% off. You would be better off in most cases going for their 15% off rate with a normal standing charge.
Airtricity are just as bad - their "20% Off" on gas turns out to be closer to 17% in reality. I know it's 20% off the unit rate - but when people hear "20% Off" - it should mean 20% off the total bill.
See here for comparison of Irish fuel prices

Cranium

******************
Update - Flogas came through::
I followed up with Flogas again via email after phonecall mentioned below, and......
got agreement for the 15% discount after all.
******************

Phoned Flogas 1850 928 100 number today.

Existing customers don't get the up to 20% deal advertised for new customers.

They seem to be a bit more focused on acquiring new customers than retaining existing ones.

This different treatment of existing customers may let Airtricity get a foot
in the door with their offers for existing Flogas customers.

I've heard a few promises of Winter 2010/2011 being colder than 2009/2010
which should mean high gas/electricity usage.

Fnergg

Fnergg wrote: »

Costs are incurred by ESB Networks when they are requested by a supplier such as Airtricity, Bord Gais or ESB Customer Supply to call out and disconnect supply.

The call-out is to withdraw supply - not to serve as a reminder or as a final warning. It may well happen that on the day supply is not withdrawn because of extenuating circumstances such as illness or if the supplier, having spoken to the customer by phone while the Networks Technician is at the house, advises the NT not to disconnect.

Disconnection or no disconnection what the customer has to pay for is the actual cost of the call-out. ESB Networks has to divert the NT away from other work and there is a cost for that. Disconnection consists of just removing a main fuse so the cost of that is minimal: what the customer has to pay for is the time involved in having an NT call to the house. ESB Networks cannot be expected to foot the cost of such visits. They pass on the cost to the suppliers and neither can they be expected to absorb them. The end result is that the customer pays.

The Regulator could, presumably, revert the decision to get the individual customer to pay for all the costs and opt instead for an arrangement whereby the costs - or at least those for domestic customers - could be spread across all customers through the electricity pricing mechanism. I don't think it would be more than €10 per customer per year, if that.

Personally, I'd have no objection to paying such a small amount. We are living in difficult times and they are going to get a lot worse. More and more customers are going to find themselves in difficulty with their electricity bills and many are going to be disconnected or at least be faced with an ESB Networks call-out the cost of which, in addition to the bill they have to pay, will be a crushing burden.

Surely, in these circumstances we as a nation should show some compassion to our less well-off fellow citizens and help to ease the burden a little? Surely the Regulator can for once dispense with his ideological committment to the polluter pays principle? Unfortunately, I would not be optimistic in that regard.

Regards,

Fnergg

I'm glad to see that the John Mullins, Chief Executive of Bord Gais Energy, in his contribution to the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Communications, Energy and Natural Resources called for the disconnection and reconnection costs to be socialised, as per my suggestion above.

You can see the entire discussion here:

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=16195&&CatID=127

The Regulator, Michael Tutty, stated the cost per customer per year would be only about €3 - significantly less than my estimate of €10 per year. He undertook to consider the matter further.

Regards,

Fnergg

Catalpa1

I have no issue with any electricity or gas supplier but I found this from Bonkers.ie the most interesting analysis. I have seen I have posted the link and also the most important bits.
The problem is like with house prices we have no national reference point/database. Airtricity are using average consumptions for the UK which are way higher than here in their calcualtion

http://www.bonkers.ie/blog/42-airtricity-s-great-land-grab

But anyway, lets play ball with Airtricity, take their gas and electricity consumption figures of approx 21,349 kW/h (or units) of gas and 6,098 kW/h of electricity and see what we get.
Airtricity Biggest Save eBundle
Annual Cost:
€1932.46
Bord Gais Paperless (electricity) & Flogas Standard (gas)
Annual Cost
€1936.14

Flogas Standard (gas) & Airtricity Smart Saver Online (electricity)
Annual Cost:
€1936.75

Airtricity are cheapest if you use as much gas and electricity as they say, but there’s only €3.68 in the difference between them and a Flogas/Bord Gais mix. Plus if you were with Bord Gais and Flogas or Flogas and Airtricity, you wouldn’t be tied in for a year, which would allow you to wait and see what the new ESB has to offer.
What’s really interesting about this though is if you use something more akin to the Irish gas consumption figures, you get a different picture. If we use say 13,800 kW/h of gas and 6,000 kW/h of electricity, a Bord Gais & Flogas or an Airtricity & Flogas combination is actually cheaper than Airtricity’s Biggest Save deal.

Flogas Standard (gas) & Bord Gais Paperless DD (electricity)
Annual Cost:
€1598.43
Flogas Standard (gas) & Airtricity Smart Saver Online (electricity)
Annual Cost:
€1599.03
Airtricity Biggest Save eBundle
Annual Cost:
€1624.51
So really what were seeing here is that the Airtricity deal is a good one regardless but particularly if you’re a high gas user. But if you’re a lower gas user and an average or higher electricity user, you’d be better off with Bord Gais or Airtricity for electricity and Flogas for gas.
In the UK, home energy tariffs are now more complicated than mobile phone bills. Before long we’ll see the same thing in Ireland. Without a standard by which tariffs can be compared, savings figures from suppliers will become completely meaningless.
To allow us to compare energy tariffs properly the regulator needs to publish agreed national average household energy consumption figures and suppliers should be required to use them when making savings claims. That way we could easily work out whether deals like these are worth switching for or not.

************************************************************

Winniethepoo

Scrolling through threads and googling this topic, but nothings straight forward. .

I am with Bord Gais for Electricity and Flogas for Gas . . Bills are generally decent enough but with Winter looming I expect them bills to go up.

Leaving tescos and this lady grabs me about the airtricity deal, which I had heard but never sure if its worth joining.

Right so I can either choose 10% savings on both gas+Electricity if I join them or 20% Gas and 6% electricity and sign up for a year. Now the has bill will go up bigtime over next couple of months (usually around €3-400 after christmas) so I am contemplating the 20%-6% deal but has anybody got any suggestions or experience with either of these deals and whether or not they are as good as they say (ive heard about how the real savings are differant when you factor in flat charges and other things!).

dudara

Threads merged

dudara

Our man in Havana

Winniethepoo wrote: »

Scrolling through threads and googling this topic, but nothings straight forward. .

I am with Bord Gais for Electricity and Flogas for Gas . . Bills are generally decent enough but with Winter looming I expect them bills to go up.

Leaving tescos and this lady grabs me about the airtricity deal, which I had heard but never sure if its worth joining.

Right so I can either choose 10% savings on both gas+Electricity if I join them or 20% Gas and 6% electricity and sign up for a year. Now the has bill will go up bigtime over next couple of months (usually around €3-400 after christmas) so I am contemplating the 20%-6% deal but has anybody got any suggestions or experience with either of these deals and whether or not they are as good as they say (ive heard about how the real savings are differant when you factor in flat charges and other things!).

I would stay where you are for the next few months. When standing charges are taken into account there is no real difference.

You don't want both gas and electricity on the one bill. It is something that is advised against.

The_Conductor

Haddockman wrote: »

You don't want both gas and electricity on the one bill. It is something that is advised against.

Is there a particular reason not to get both from the one supplier? I'm currently with Bord Gais for both- and given my experiences with Airtricity and their customer service, would be loathe to have any further dealings with them......

Our man in Havana

The main reason is if you get into trouble paying, they will cut both supplies off at once.

The_Conductor

Haddockman wrote: »

The main reason is if you get into trouble paying, they will cut both supplies off at once.

Ahh- I see.
If you have two separate suppliers- it just means you have two companies chasing Bord Gais networks and ESB Networks, instead of the one company chasing both though?

Our man in Havana

Yes, that is the jist of it.

Also BG and Airtricity are very fast to disconnect for non payment.

wmpdd3

Just a point, where I work, there was a Airtricity person signing people up.

She was there for 2 weeks, so the conversation turned to switching in the canteen. There were 4 people who had switched from bord gas and esb to someone else. Every one else wasn't in a position to move, they either owed too much money togas or esb and wouldn't be in position to pay off both at the same time.

So what percentage is the regulator looking for to move to new entrants before they give esb the go ahead to lower prices and will they ever get to this as anyone owing money will never be able to move or pay by direct debit.

Our man in Havana

ESB must lose 40% of its customers first.

dahamsta

Haddockman wrote: »

ESB must lose 40% of its customers first.

Can't wait. I'd do anything to get away from the incomptent buffoons employed by Airtricity, and moving to Bord Gais would just be more of the same by all accounts. In only moved from the appreciably competent and organised ESB because the price difference was so large.

If they spent half as much on customer service as they did on those complete dickheads that hang around my estate and the shopping centres, they might earn a tiny bit of respect. As it is I have to wait several weeks to get... well, no response from them for an enquiry. I might as well talk to the wall beside me.

EDIT: Final enquiry sent. Answer required by close of business Friday or I'm moving on. Screw them.