Alternative Energy Suppliers

Plankmonkey

Anyone here made the switch to Airtricity? Was there any hassle and are you seeing significant price difference? I've heard its 5% cheaper since the ESB price hike due to oil but I'm waiting for them to mail me a price list to confirm.

rondjon

Last I checked, Airtricity increased their prices as well, due to the increase in the price of wind or something ridiculous like that. You'll most likely find that they both have exactly the same prices.

Actually, can't illustrate any of this now because they don't appear to show prices at all on their website.

I know from last year they were exactly the same price, including both charging a public service levy which I would have thought should only be charged by the ESB.

badbrian

I enquired into their pricing a couple of years ago. And they were only offering discounts to businesses (it might have been 10% then) and you had to pay by direct debit. No discount to private consumers. So you could do it for the benefit of the environment but not for the benefit of your wallet. Competition. What competition.

Plankmonkey

Only in Ireland! If its hassle free and the same price then might as well i suppose. But on second thoughts I don't think I want to give my money to a company that hikes their prices for no reason. ESB had oil as an excuse, what's theirs?

OfflerCrocGod

Plankmonkey wrote:

what's theirs?

Profit.

netwhizkid

Will the future wars be fought over Wind (when oil runs out) because if so, I in trouble as the biggest windfarm in ireland is being built in my back yard almost. I would not support Airtricty when they carry on like that, They had the oppurtunity to leave their prices low but they didn't, i'd rather have my air-con pumping out tonnes of Co2 through using the esb and burning coal & oil, than support a company that is driven by sheer greed and capitalism. At least the ESB is public and so much of what i spend is helping run the country.

Solair

It's actually a bit more complex than that. Airtricity have to buy in power when the wind isn't blowing enough power to cover what their customers are sucking out of the grid. So, if there's an increase in oil prices and this increases ESB's wholesale prices Airtricity will have some cost increases too.

Tazz T

I note that Bord Gais still hasn't entered the residential market with a cheaper product than ESB even though they said they would launch a competitive electricity product in October.

So still no competition in the electricity market despite all the price rises 'to encourage competitiveness'.

luckat

Reviving an antique thread...

<blows dust off thread>

A friend of mine gets her electricity from Airtricity - not because it's cheaper but because she believes in renewable resources. She says it's cheaper, though.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

prob best to just start a new thread rather than dragging up a really really old one!

poolfan

just checked their price their and they are now deared than esb. strange i think

Macha

poolfan wrote: »

just checked their price their and they are now deared than esb. strange i think

Really? Do you have links to prices for both companies?

brettmirl

I moved to Airtricity in my last house. Found them great to deal with. No hassle changing over the same way it is between the phone companies.

At that time, the prices between ESB and Airtricity was the same.


Current prices are:
http://www.airtricity.ie/ireland/switch_to_airtricity/residential_tariffs/

http://www.esb.ie/main/energy_home/your_esb_bill_tariffs.jsp

emul

What is up with Airtricity's Nightsaver pricing. It's more expensive (or am I reading wrong), the standing charge per day and day/24hr rate are higher in both urban and rural case.

I got a night rate meter installed years ago from ESB and that is when we run dishwasher / washing machine etc. Not moving to Airipity with their price structure.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

"...supplying customers with 89% green renewable electricity."

If this is the case, why two price rises in a year? And around the same time as ESB...

Carrigman

kingambrose wrote: »

"...supplying customers with 89% green renewable electricity."

If this is the case, why two price rises in a year? And around the same time as ESB...

If you think that by becoming an Airtricity customer you are getting "green" electricity then think again.

All the electricity generated in Ireland from whichever source - wind, coal, gas, oil, etc - goes into a virtual "pool" from which the various suppliers such as Airtricity, BGE, ESB Customer Supply etc., purchase their requirements in order to supply their customers.

The electricity that comes down the lines is therefore generated from a mix of sources. It is not possible for a "green" supplier like Airtricity to provide only electricity generated from wind to its customers. It is technically impossible to guarantee that only green electrons will be used to power your requirements.

craichoe

Carrigman wrote: »

If you think that by becoming an Airtricity customer you are getting "green" electricity then think again.

All the electricity generated in Ireland from whichever source - wind, coal, gas, oil, etc - goes into a virtual "pool" from which the various suppliers such as Airtricity, BGE, ESB Customer Supply etc., purchase their requirements in order to supply their customers.

The electricity that comes down the lines is therefore generated from a mix of sources. It is not possible for a "green" supplier like Airtricity to provide only electricity generated from wind to its customers. It is technically impossible to guarantee that only green electrons will be used to power your requirements.

And this is different from any other Country how ?

At least if you pay Airtricity then they can invest in more Wind Farms and hence decrease the need to use Coal, Oil and Gas generators.

The same would go for anything, theres always an Infrastructure provider, and anyone can pump their product over that.

Carrigman

craichoe wrote: »

And this is different from any other Country how ?

Absolutely no different. It's just that a surprising number of people think that by becoming Airtricity customers they are being supplied exclusively with electricity generated by wind. Which of course is nonsense.

Davy

craichoe wrote: »

And this is different from any other Country how ?

At least if you pay Airtricity then they can invest in more Wind Farms and hence decrease the need to use Coal, Oil and Gas generators.

The same would go for anything, theres always an Infrastructure provider, and anyone can pump their product over that.

Its not just airtricity that invest in renewables. Esb are investing €11 billion of which will be directed at renewables.

And they are doing a pilot scheme where all the supply will be totally fed from renewable energy. Im not sure where it is, but could be from the new 18MW windfarm in tyrone.

craichoe

Carrigman wrote: »

Absolutely no different. It's just that a surprising number of people think that by becoming Airtricity customers they are being supplied exclusively with electricity generated by wind. Which of course is nonsense.

Ah.. Looking at it that way is a bit silly, just because they don't supply a wire to your door from their Wind Generators doesn't mean they don't have to Generate the mW to the grid. Building more infrastructure just to have the 'wire to the door' would be silly. If people weren't using Airtricity then the ESB would have to generate MORE power to supply the Grid.

Macha

kingambrose wrote: »

"...supplying customers with 89% green renewable electricity."

If this is the case, why two price rises in a year? And around the same time as ESB...

There's that funny thing called inflation. Also, they bring their prices up just before ESB, who obviously wait for them to do so, reel a few suckers into switching and then up their own prices. Nice.

Macha

davton wrote: »

Its not just airtricity that invest in renewables. Esb are investing €11 billion of which will be directed at renewables.

And they are doing a pilot scheme where all the supply will be totally fed from renewable energy. Im not sure where it is, but could be from the new 18MW windfarm in tyrone.

ESB are only doing this because the government got a serious kick up the ass from the EU earlier this year. NO other reason.Not only we were heavily criticised by the EU Commissioner for Energy and noted for being the country in Europe with the best potential for wind & wave power, we've also been told we have to reduce C02 emissions by 20% through a European Credit Trading System (ECTS). Bertie cried all the way to Brussels & back but the EU were just sick of listening to our excuses.

Del2005

craichoe wrote: »

Ah.. Looking at it that way is a bit silly, just because they don't supply a wire to your door from their Wind Generators doesn't mean they don't have to Generate the mW to the grid. Building more infrastructure just to have the 'wire to the door' would be silly. If people weren't using Airtricity then the ESB would have to generate MORE power to supply the Grid.

Since wind is never guaranteed someone has to have emergency back up power equal to the amount of wind power being generated. In order to do this they have to have gas fired power stations idling to take up the slack for when the wind doesn't blow, Turlough Hill doesn't have enough capacity to do this. So the ESB is already burning the gas to make the electricity so it won't lead to any more or less greenhouse gas out put. Which is also why Airtricity aren't cheaper then ESB.

Until we get a full EU power grid with sufficient inter connectors, or till someone inverts a viable way of storing large amounts of energy, green energy isn't very green as there is always a need to have full backup capacity (except for tidal).

burdburd

Carrigman wrote: »

A virtual "pool" from which the various suppliers such as Airtricity, BGE, ESB Customer Supply etc., purchase their requirements in order to supply their customers.

Think of the virtual pool as being a pie chart with different suppliers providing different %'s of the overall power need. Airtricity provides a piece of the pie - the larger piece the greener the overall power generation picture in Ireland.

BTW - I have not seen anyone comment on getting power directly from wind generators. I think power consumers are a bit more savy and despite their electricity being partially green & partially dirt they select to support the green supplier for a variety of reasons.

By extension of your comments one would think that buying a low emmisions car is a waste of time because they are lots of gusslers on the road.

Ever hear of the power of 1 ?

Del2005

burdburd wrote: »

Think of the virtual pool as being a pie chart with different suppliers providing different %'s of the overall power need. Airtricity provides a piece of the pie - the larger piece the greener the overall power generation picture in Ireland.

As I said before, till we have a fully interconnected power grid with the whole of the EU wind energy isn't green. For every kWh of wind power there has to be back up, for some reason people don't like the dark/cold, since in Ireland we only have a very limited amount of hydro power the only spare capacity we have to back up wind is to run a gas fired station 24/7 making no power to cover any drop in output from the green wind turbine.

BTW - I have not seen anyone comment on getting power directly from wind generators. I think power consumers are a bit more savy and despite their electricity being partially green & partially dirt they select to support the green supplier for a variety of reasons.

By extension of your comments one would think that buying a low emmisions car is a waste of time because they are lots of gusslers on the road.

But a gas guzzler is proberly cleaner in a total CO2 cycle as it's already made. Where as your low emmisions car has to manufactured, transported to Ireland, then transported to your dealer. You or your dealer will then have to sort out the disposal of the old car which will have to be transported hundreds/thousands of kms to be recycled. Unless the gas gussler dies a natural death, it's not greener to replace it.

Ever hear of the power of 1 ?

And the people who are telling you this have just bought a brand new fleet of gas gusslers

SectionF

I see that Airtricity demand an undertaking to pay by direct debit only before they will consider taking on a residential customer. Is this restriction legal?

Cabaal

SectionF wrote: »

I see that Airtricity demand an undertaking to pay by direct debit only before they will consider taking on a residential customer. Is this restriction legal?

ESB do the exact same thing for new customers,
yes its legal

Ste.phen

Should it be legal though?

Personally I think no.

Cabaal

Ste.phen wrote: »

Should it be legal though?

Personally I think no.

Ideally it would be nice not to have to use direct debit, but at the end of the day if its legal and you don't like ti there ain't much you can do#

SectionF

Cabaal wrote: »

ESB do the exact same thing for new customers,
yes its legal

Are they not obliged to accept legal tender in payment? Surely people are entitled to use means that don't involve rip-off bank charges?

Del2005

SectionF wrote: »

Are they not obliged to accept legal tender in payment? Surely people are entitled to use means that don't involve rip-off bank charges?

AFAIK if you don't want to pay ESB by DD when getting a new connection you have to pay a large deposit, I think it was ~€300 a couple of yeards ago. Can't remember the price but it was easier to pay by DD then give them that much cash.

In this day and age you shouldn't be paying bank charges, plenty of free banking available.

dotsman

SectionF wrote: »

Are they not obliged to accept legal tender in payment? Surely people are entitled to use means that don't involve rip-off bank charges?

I'm sorry, but it's your own fault if you pay bank charges on DDs.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Del2005 wrote: »

In this day and age you shouldn't be paying bank charges, plenty of free banking available.

out of interest: is there anywhere that still charges for banking?

/sorry for going off-topic

Del2005

Captain Obvious wrote: »

out of interest: is there anywhere that still charges for banking?

/sorry for going off-topic

I've no idea, but I'm sure there are, I was only repling to SectionF's post about rip off bank charges.

Cabaal

While the details are not out yet the pricing structure is due out today, Bord Gáis are promising to undercut the ESB by 10% for the next three years.

I'm curious will their be T&C's attached to this 10% undercut, for example Airtricity offer upto 10% off if you take a certain payment plan, pay by Direct Debit and do on-line billing. Their details are available from - https://www.airtricity.com/ireland/switch_to_airtricity/switch_now/airtricity_your_airtricit/

Lets hope the whatever Bord Gáis comes out with its positive for the average joe on the street who could do with cutting bills in these fun fun times.


EDIT: Update at 15:24hours
Details are out, take for example the Urban 24 Hour plan with all three Irish providers
Prices break down as follows:

Urban 24 Hour Tariff
Bord Gais = Gener Units kWh 16.38 (with DD option only)

ESB = General units kWh 18.61

Airtricity = General Units kWh 17.12 (DD option only)

Click on the company names for full tariff details from the company website.

So all in All Bord Gais is cheapest at present

ALL PRICES INCLUDE VAT at 13.5%!!

lods

Cabaal wrote: »

While the details are not out yet the pricing structure is due out today, Bord Gáis are promising to undercut the ESB by 10% for the next three years.

I'm curious will their be T&C's attached to this 10% undercut, for example Airtricity offer upto 10% off if you take a certain payment plan, pay by Direct Debit and do on-line billing. Their details are available from - https://www.airtricity.com/ireland/switch_to_airtricity/switch_now/airtricity_your_airtricit/

Lets hope the whatever Bord Gáis comes out with its positive for the average joe on the street who could do with cutting bills in these fun fun times.

i'll be ringing them

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

It's great new for the domestic customer. I wonder though if they'll remain 10% below ESB when the CER announces the next price reduction. They'll probably insist on Direct Debit so I won't rush to them as I like paying ahead in the Post Office.

Cabaal

Colby Stale Creek wrote: »

It's great new for the domestic customer. I wonder though if they'll remain 10% below ESB when the CER announces the next price reduction.

Well "apparently" they are guaranteeing it'll be 10% cheaper then the ESB for the next three years, now in saying that both the ESB and them could put up prices but as long as they are still 10% cheaper then the ESB they are still providing that guarantee.

They'll probably insist on Direct Debit so I won't rush to them as I like paying ahead in the Post Office.

I would imagine so as well, in fairness for the likes of me who started as a new ESB customer in July 2008 in makes no difference as the ESB offered me two options as a new customer
- Pay a deposit of 300e and pay anyway I want
- Pay by direct debit and you don't have to pay a deposit of 300e

Easy guess which one I was effectively forced into

Cabaal

Details are due at Midday today!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0218/bordgais.html

Bord Gáis has announced that it is entering the residential electricity market, with a guarantee to customers that its prices will be at least 10% lower than the ESB, for the next three years.

From midday, any ESB customer will be able to switch over and get their electricity from Bord Gáis by either phoning the company or going online.

It hopes to expand its customer base to more than 1m people in three years.
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The double digit guarantee is due to remain in place, no matter what cuts the ESB introduces.

There will also be no penalty if a customer wants to switch back to the ESB.

Bord Gáis Chief Executive John Mullins said it would be straight-forward for ESB customers to switch to the company, and this would be open to all 1.8m registered households who use electricity.

The announcement amounts to a huge shake-up of the residential electricity market and according to Bord Gáis will result in immediate and substantial savings for customers.

Mr Mullins also said he believed that gas prices would go down considerably this year with prices more than 25% lower next December than they are today.

In a statement, the ESB said the residential market has been open to competition since February 2005 and it was open to all competitors to charge what they like.

It said it welcomed any new competition into the market.

However, the ESB said it was required to charge the rate set by the Commission for Energy Regulation and was not allowed to discount from that rate.

Beruthiel

If you already have gas with Bord Gáis, will there be any incentives if you switch to them for electricty too?

spadder

Just rang up and switched my account over, 12% discount if you pay by DD.

I really don't want to be paying for more ESB wage increases.

Cabaal

spadder wrote: »

Just rang up and switched my account over, 12% discount if you pay by DD.

I really don't want to be paying for more ESB wage increases.

Did they give you any details of the pricing?

spadder

They say they will be cheaper by 10%. because I signed up over the phone they will post out the Terms & conditions, there is a 7 day "cool off period".
I can go back to ESB anytime.

EDIT: They said the T&C's will be on the website at midday

mike65

Great news for us, but it raises the spectre of the energy regulators role again, the ESB can't even respond if they want to as the Energy Commissar only reviews prices twice a year.

spadder

mike65 wrote: »

Great news for us, but it raises the spectre of the energy regulators role again, the ESB can't even respond if they want to as the Energy Commissar only reviews prices twice a year.

IMO ESB will only get more expensive, out dated work practises, wage increases, pension timebombs and customers switching to Bord Gais.

I'll be switching over today, about time we had some choice

Bord Gáis has announced that it is entering the residential electricity market later today, with a guarantee to customers that its prices will be at least 10% lower than the ESB for the next three years.
The company's chief executive, John Mullins, said it would be a simple process for ESB customers to switch to Bord Gáis, and this would be open to all 1.8 million registered households who use electricity.
This announcement by Bord Gáis amounts to a huge shake-up of the residential electricity market and, the company claims, will result in immediate and substantial savings for customers.
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From midday today, any ESB customer will be able to switch over and get their electrify from Bord Gáis by either phoning the company or going online.
It hopes to expand its customer base to more than a million people in three years, by promising its bills will always be at least 10% lower that the ESB.
Mr Mullins said the double digit guarantee would remain in place, no matter what cuts the ESB introduced; adding that there would be no penalty if a customer wanted to switch back to the ESB.
On gas prices, Mr Mullins said he believed that they would go down considerably this year - with prices more than 25% lower next December than they are today.
Meanwhile, the ESB said the residential market has been open to competition since February 2005 and it was open to all competitors to charge what they like.
In a statement this morning, it said it welcomed any new competition into the market. But the ESB said it was required to charge the rate set by the Commission for Energy Regulation and was not allowed to discount from that rate.

Vegeta

Anyone know of any T&C for this, minimum contracts, switching costs?

Vegeta

Vegeta wrote: »

Anyone know of any T&C for this, minimum contracts, switching costs?

I'll let you know when I'm on the phone to them

T&C are been sent out in the post, no cost for switching & 12% discount if your a Bord Gais customer

_Nuno_

Does anyone know if there's a minimum contract length with ESB? I signed with them on November last year, can I switch?

Can't find anything relative to that in their terms and conditions.

spadder

already switched.

spadder

Afaik there is no min contract with either.