Squats the story - the Off Topic Thread...

Roper

I won't comment on the "other" thing.

Re: the Mattie thing, I'm not trying to justify what he did, I think he's a moron, but does it ever annoy anyone that there's this revisionist version of events with some things?

Quick example, a mate of mine was a moderately successful footballer with a 2nd division Team in Scotland. He and his mate met a girl one night in a club, took her home and whatever happened, happened. He and the girl see each other a few more times, have a few laughs etc. etc. 6 months down the line, he gets arrested at training on a rape charge along with his friend. Soon it's all over the local newspapers, it's in the red tops etc. etc. and the club use it as an excuse to trim him from the wage bill. He's from the town in Scotland where he was playing so his name is mud, he can't walk to the shops for milk. It goes to court after he refuses to settle the civil charge and then it gets thrown out and the judge brands the girl "an opportunist". Now that DOESN'T make the papers, he still doesn't get his playing contract back and he ends up plying his trade here in jolly old Dublin. What DOES make the papers is another interview with the girl who sounds a lot like the girl in the video posted. How she'd kill them if she saw them etc. etc. Funny thing is they DO meet again... at a wedding, which she doesn't seem bothered about and he has to walk out of. Crazy.

Now I don't think every girl who cries foul on a sportsman is faking it, but I just think there's this revisionist thing that goes on. Years later you get confidence and suddenly realise someone took advantage of you. It's upsetting and traumatic of course, but does that mean that the people should be punished for it? Even with public disgrace?

All that said the man is a retard and so are all the other "roasters" in the Premiership and so on.

kevpants

Roper wrote: »

I won't comment on the "other" thing.

Re: the Mattie thing, I'm not trying to justify what he did, I think he's a moron, but does it ever annoy anyone that there's this revisionist version of events with some things?

Quick example, a mate of mine was a moderately successful footballer with a 2nd division Team in Scotland. He and his mate met a girl one night in a club, took her home and whatever happened, happened. He and the girl see each other a few more times, have a few laughs etc. etc. 6 months down the line, he gets arrested at training on a rape charge along with his friend. Soon it's all over the local newspapers, it's in the red tops etc. etc. and the club use it as an excuse to trim him from the wage bill. He's from the town in Scotland where he was playing so his name is mud, he can't walk to the shops for milk. It goes to court after he refuses to settle the civil charge and then it gets thrown out and the judge brands the girl "an opportunist". Now that DOESN'T make the papers, he still doesn't get his playing contract back and he ends up plying his trade here in jolly old Dublin. What DOES make the papers is another interview with the girl who sounds a lot like the girl in the video posted. How she'd kill them if she saw them etc. etc. Funny thing is they DO meet again... at a wedding, which she doesn't seem bothered about and he has to walk out of. Crazy.

Now I don't think every girl who cries foul on a sportsman is faking it, but I just think there's this revisionist thing that goes on. Years later you get confidence and suddenly realise someone took advantage of you. It's upsetting and traumatic of course, but does that mean that the people should be punished for it? Even with public disgrace?

All that said the man is a retard and so are all the other "roasters" in the Premiership and so on.

Oh yeah you're dead right the girl involved is about as traumatised as a kid in a candy shop. Her workmates have come out to say she boasted at how many of the lads she got through in the one session.

What the hell is with the whole "roasting" culture? God be with the days when George Best would get three air hostesses into a plane cubicle. Now it seems like whoever organises the biggest sausage-fest wins!

amacachi

Roper wrote: »

I won't comment on the "other" thing.

Re: the Mattie thing, I'm not trying to justify what he did, I think he's a moron, but does it ever annoy anyone that there's this revisionist version of events with some things?

Quick example, a mate of mine was a moderately successful footballer with a 2nd division Team in Scotland. He and his mate met a girl one night in a club, took her home and whatever happened, happened. He and the girl see each other a few more times, have a few laughs etc. etc. 6 months down the line, he gets arrested at training on a rape charge along with his friend. Soon it's all over the local newspapers, it's in the red tops etc. etc. and the club use it as an excuse to trim him from the wage bill. He's from the town in Scotland where he was playing so his name is mud, he can't walk to the shops for milk. It goes to court after he refuses to settle the civil charge and then it gets thrown out and the judge brands the girl "an opportunist". Now that DOESN'T make the papers, he still doesn't get his playing contract back and he ends up plying his trade here in jolly old Dublin. What DOES make the papers is another interview with the girl who sounds a lot like the girl in the video posted. How she'd kill them if she saw them etc. etc. Funny thing is they DO meet again... at a wedding, which she doesn't seem bothered about and he has to walk out of. Crazy.

Now I don't think every girl who cries foul on a sportsman is faking it, but I just think there's this revisionist thing that goes on. Years later you get confidence and suddenly realise someone took advantage of you. It's upsetting and traumatic of course, but does that mean that the people should be punished for it? Even with public disgrace?

All that said the man is a retard and so are all the other "roasters" in the Premiership and so on.

I pretty much completely agree with you, even the way he was being interviewed there was pretty biased, talking about a "power imbalance" in the room, even though it's what yer one asked for. I'm sure all us fellas know of women crying foul a while after something is meant to have happened and we all know it's BS.

I think those lads are dirty bastards tbh, but it's their own business. However any of them who do something similar now deserve to be sacked for pure stupidity.

kevpants

amacachi wrote: »

I'm sure all us fellas know of women crying foul a while after something is meant to have happened and we all know it's BS.

Ok that's bringing things down a dangerous road.

*Changes the subject

Don't you hate pants?

brianthebard

I love shorts so much, but I would really like to get some meat on my calves. They seem to be almost universally the last thing to develop for people though. (course it doesn't help that I haven't been doing much calf work :pac:)

amacachi

kevpants wrote: »

Ok that's bringing things down a dangerous road.

*Changes the subject

Don't you hate pants?

Not saying that it's always BS, just that we all know of cases where it has been.

Jeans worn about 2/3 of the way down the arse it the only comfortable way to wear pants.

floggg

amacachi wrote: »

Not saying that it's always BS, just that we all know of cases where it has been.

Jeans worn about 2/3 of the way down the arse it the only comfortable way to wear pants.

No its not. And if it looks dumb on gangsta rappers, it sure as hell looks dumb on skinny white skater boys from blackrock (not saying you are, although you may be....)

floggg

kevpants wrote: »

What the hell is with the whole "roasting" culture? God be with the days when George Best would get three air hostesses into a plane cubicle. Now it seems like whoever organises the biggest sausage-fest wins!

Strangely enough was offered to the chance to be one of the spits in a roasting a while back. needless to say i didn't take the girl up on her offer.

Although for the record, i prefer the term "eiffel tower" to "spit roast" - it makes it seem more artistic!

amacachi

floggg wrote: »

No its not. And if it looks dumb on gangsta rappers, it sure as hell looks dumb on skinny white skater boys from blackrock (not saying you are, although you may be....)

Fat balding guy from Dundalk. :P I'm not really too worried how it looks anyway, wear them fairly low, just more comfortable than having a belt rip into my bellay.

Hanley

bigstar wrote: »

whats the story with equipped lifting, i mean why did it come about?

Equipped lifting has been around as long as powerlifting has to be honest. It always makes me laugh seeing people come onto forums on a high horse about how the sport is becoming warped when the simple fact of the matter is that powerlifters have ALWAYS used what ever method they could to lift more weight (not saying that's what you're position is).

Like off the top of my head (and before single ply gear got better), the following were common;
-wrapping your knees as tight as possible with bandages
-wrapping tennis balls behind the knees to give better spring
-lifters wrapping themselves in bedsheets to use em like squat suits/bench shirts
-before the monolift, standing up with the bar and having the spotters remove it so you don't have to walk back

i know some dont think its right or whatever blah blah blah, but is it not more of a test of strength to just lift with no equipment just technique and raw strength. ive no problems personally with equipped lifting, just curious as to the arguments for it.

When it comes down to it, there's a near infinite amount more of technique involved in equipped lifting as opposed to raw stuff. Seriously, without trying it you can't even begin to understand how much more difficult it is!!

The truth is, when it comes to top level competition, the only place with a reasonable depth of lifters is in equipped divisions. The guys winning the world championships and beating everyone in gear would in all likelihood do the exact same thing raw.

I think a lot of the non-competitive lifter hate for equipped lifting stems from the fact that they can't compare themselves to what the guys on the platform are doing. The really funny thing is that even if the top lifters competed raw, the gym lifters couldn't compare themselves because anyone who's been on a platform will tell you it's a totally different ball game. Not only are standards tighter - there's an absolutely huge amount of lifts that I've seen guys in TF do that would never pass in PL, but also trying to keep focused and energised over an 8-10 hour day is one of the most testing things you can do.

cardio,shoot me

kevpants wrote: »

Ok that's bringing things down a dangerous road.

*Changes the subject

Don't you hate pants?

I Myself love shorts


i got some bad boys in pennys last night, 6 euro! bargain, they are like sweat pants material and they are super good for squatting, i dont have to hitch them up before going under the bar. Best buy of the year for me

Magic Eight Ball

While rummaging around fitness websites and whatnot I came across this funny motivational quote, forgive me but I had to re-post it somewhere..

"Right about now, a small Chinese girl is warming up with your MAX!!"

Paint that on your gym wall ha ha..

Forgive me :pac:

cardio,shoot me

Hanley

Trevor Coulahan wrote: »

While rummaging around fitness websites and whatnot I came across this funny motivational quote, forgive me but I had to re-post it somewhere..

"Right about now, a small Chinese girl is warming up with your MAX!!"

Paint that on your gym wall ha ha..

Forgive me :pac:

EDIT: Fcuking cardioshootme's too fast

cardio,shoot me

too fast, too furious :P, i saw that on t-nation a while ago .

kevpants

Hanley wrote: »

The truth is, when it comes to top level competition, the only place with a reasonable depth of lifters is in equipped divisions. The guys winning the world championships and beating everyone in gear would in all likelihood do the exact same thing raw.

I do think the big guys at the top of the tree in equipped lifting should at least make some effort to put up some raw numbers, at least the ones who talk down to raw or single ply lifters. Some of the disrespect a few guys show raw lifters when they haven't put up any raw numbers is a bit much.

There are a few guys who presume they'd be the top of the tree raw even though they've never bothered. Granted there are also a tonne of self righteous raw lifters who consider themselves purists, like yer man who does "Raw Unity", what's his name?

Hanley

kevpants wrote: »

I do think the big guys at the top of the tree in equipped lifting should at least make some effort to put up some raw numbers, at least the ones who talk down to raw or single ply lifters. Some of the disrespect a few guys show raw lifters when they haven't put up any raw numbers is a bit much.

There are a few guys who presume they'd be the top of the tree raw even though they've never bothered. Granted there are also a tonne of self righteous raw lifters who consider themselves purists, like yer man who does "Raw Unity", what's his name?

Eric Talmant. Finds time to talk about how raw lifting's the only real way in between walking his dogs, taking his epsom salts baths and writing about Sheiko.

There was actually a really good comp in 2006 were guys from across all the feds came together (multi and single ply, and raw). Pretty sure the top guys all out squatted the 100% Raw world records too. Fancy that!!

Here's the results; http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/2016

Siders totalled 998kg RAW :eek:
Donnie T did 985kg!!

Mike Tuchscherer is another absolute KING both raw and equipped;
raw; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIwPNUNGog4
equipped; http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/9058

cardio,shoot me

Holy sh!t at mikes legs! And lol at the commentator in his raw video :P

bigstar

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

I Myself love shorts


i got some bad boys in pennys last night, 6 euro! bargain, they are like sweat pants material and they are super good for squatting, i dont have to hitch them up before going under the bar. Best buy of the year for me

getting me a pair tomorrow so.

bigstar

Hanley wrote: »

Equipped lifting has been around as long as powerlifting has to be honest. It always makes me laugh seeing people come onto forums on a high horse about how the sport is becoming warped when the simple fact of the matter is that powerlifters have ALWAYS used what ever method they could to lift more weight (not saying that's what you're position is).

Like off the top of my head (and before single ply gear got better), the following were common;
-wrapping your knees as tight as possible with bandages
-wrapping tennis balls behind the knees to give better spring
-lifters wrapping themselves in bedsheets to use em like squat suits/bench shirts
-before the monolift, standing up with the bar and having the spotters remove it so you don't have to walk back

i get it now, its to stop PLer's looking silly, i mean squatting in a bedsheet couldnt have been doing much for the sport :pac:

The truth is, when it comes to top level competition, the only place with a reasonable depth of lifters is in equipped divisions. The guys winning the world championships and beating everyone in gear would in all likelihood do the exact same thing raw.

this is what i dont get, if they are better than raw guys why not compete raw and get rid of all the arguments. im not saying its cheating or anything but it does seem to muddy the waters a bit, but i get what your sayin and it is the best way to lift more weight which is the point of PL. i suppose too that it could be argued that PL is an equipped sport and raw lifting is just the amateur side of it, if that makes sense.

and ftr i dont have anything against equipped i was just wondering because i read a lot of stuff about 'cheater gear' and 'its not real lifitng' and whatever and was wondering what the arguments were.

thanks, it was good post.

Hanley

bigstar wrote: »

this is what i dont get, if they are better than raw guys why not compete raw and get rid of all the arguments. im not saying its cheating or anything but it does seem to muddy the waters a bit,

No it doesn't.... Equipped guys compete against equipped guys in the same equipment. They take it off, and then beat all the best raw guys too. I don't see how that muddy's the water?

It's been shown time and time again... Mike Tuschserer, Ryan Ceili, Scott Smith, Donnie Thompson and Brian Siders are some of the top lifters in the US, hell they ARE the top lifters in the US in their respective weight classes. They've all competed raw in the last couple of years, and have all beaten the best "exclusively raw" lifters.

The only people that bitch about equipment tend to be middle of the pack raw guys who couldn't hang with the top equipped lifters anyway.

but i get what your sayin and it is the best way to lift more weight which is the point of PL. i suppose too that it could be argued that PL is an equipped sport and raw lifting is just the amateur side of it, if that makes sense.

Not really.... The way people go on you'd swear equipped lifters are never out of their suits and shirts. Personally the majority of mine is done raw, as is pretty much all the work most single ply guys do too....

and ftr i dont have anything against equipped i was just wondering because i read a lot of stuff about 'cheater gear' and 'its not real lifitng' and whatever and was wondering what the arguments were.

thanks, it was good post.

Yeah tbh only a moron would try to make that argument. Seems to be made ALL the time online. Guess the guys saying it find it easier to hide behind their keyboard than actually get on the platform and try it, either raw or equipped. If the raw guys were so strong and truly believed they were better lifters then why don't they just put on equipment and show everyone once and for all ya know?

Khannie

Seriously people....some of these posts are very on topic. Can we not talk more sh**e please?

edit: lol@warmup joke.

/me squats

amacachi

Well I just got news one of my cousins was found hung there a few minutes ago. Off the topic of fitness enough for ya? :P

Malteaser!

kevpants wrote: »

I do think the big guys at the top of the tree in equipped lifting should at least make some effort to put up some raw numbers, at least the ones who talk down to raw or single ply lifters. Some of the disrespect a few guys show raw lifters when they haven't put up any raw numbers is a bit much.

bigstar wrote: »

this is what i dont get, if they are better than raw guys why not compete raw and get rid of all the arguments. im not saying its cheating or anything but it does seem to muddy the waters a bit

I don't really get this whole argument tbh. To me it's pretty simple. In powerlifting there are two categories, equipped and unequipped. You lift in one or the other. When you win, you're the strongest in your category.

I don't understand why an equipped lifter should have to lift in an unequipped competition in order to prove their strength. It ALWAYS seems to be the raw lifters saying the equipped ones should compete under their rules. Why not the other way around? (I would actually ask, why is there a need at all?) Equipped lifters are often accused of 'cheating' (how one is cheating when it's part of the rules is beyond me but anyway...), I've always seen cheating as something a person does to make things easier for themselves so by that logic surely an unequipped guy would be able to take all their natural raw strength, pop on a suit and put up a massive total, the suit makes it easier right??...oh wait, they can't, it's not actually easier at all - raw and equipped and two totally different animals. I personally don't think comparing the two are like for like.

brianthebard

Good point Malteaser, a lot of the stuff said about the difference between equipped and raw could similiarly be applied to weight divisions...why not just all weigh the same and clear it all up?? Obviously thats not how things work.
Out of interest Hanley what's the difference between single and multi ply gear?

Malteaser!

kevpants wrote: »

Some of the disrespect a few guys show raw lifters when they haven't put up any raw numbers is a bit much.

Just on this point, I think that the raw lifters who look down their noses at equipped lifters and fob them off as 'cheaters' are being just as disrespectful.

Hanley

brianthebard wrote: »

Good point Malteaser, a lot of the stuff said about the difference between equipped and raw could similiarly be applied to weight divisions...why not just all weigh the same and clear it all up?? Obviously thats not how things work.
Out of interest Hanley what's the difference between single and multi ply gear?

It's funny how the vast vast majority of all this bickering comes from people outside of the sport!! In my experience, there's a mutual respect between all competitive lifters, especially the higher ranking ones. They know how hard it is to get to a competitive level in single, multi or raw lifting. It's only the people who've never done any that complain!!

Multiply is as it sounds... more than one layer of equipment. So a multiply suit is like two single ply suits together, they also get to wear multiply briefs (2 layers of single ply gear cut around naval level) and longer knee wraps. The suits tend to have velcro straps so tightness can be adjusted, and the suit are made out of either poly (like single ply) or canvas.

I've spoken to one guy, and his exact words his first time trying a multi ply canvas suit were - "it's ACTUALLY like sitting onto a chair, there's just so much support".

Multiply shirts are similar, sometimes going to 3 plys of poly (canvas isn't used really). Collars tend to be more scooped, and the shirts themselves are open back. This allows you to pull the front of the shirt down more and get more support.

Oh and I should also say.... unless you're already ridiculously strong, there's no way in hell you'd be able to handle multiply gear. It would just snap you in half. I doubt I'm even strong enough to support the weights involved at the moment. I'm working hard on training those specific capacities with an eye to trying it out...

So there you go, that's multiply lifting!! I'd LOVE to give it a shot. We've a monolift in Hercs now so it's even more tempting.

bigstar

No it doesn't.... Equipped guys compete against equipped guys in the same equipment. They take it off, and then beat all the best raw guys too. I don't see how that muddy's the water?

i mean as in who is the strongest lifter in the world right now the equipped world champion or the raw world champion, but i get it its the equipped guy anyway because hed still beat the raw guy raw.

The only people that bitch about equipment tend to be middle of the pack raw guys who couldn't hang with the top equipped lifters anyway.

well i wouldnt even be in the pack. im not trying to come across critical of equipment other than to understand it better, i didnt even know there were suits till a few months ago. i dont have a problem with equipment, squatting 1000lbs in a suit is damn impressive and im in no position to criticise.

Not really.... The way people go on you'd swear equipped lifters are never out of their suits and shirts. Personally the majority of mine is done raw, as is pretty much all the work most single ply guys do too....

i meant comp wise that the sport is equipped or seems that way to me. i know training would be done raw, then with wraps, straps up, down etc., and i know your squat is big because your strong not because of a suit.

Yeah tbh only a moron would try to make that argument. Seems to be made ALL the time online. Guess the guys saying it find it easier to hide behind their keyboard than actually get on the platform and try it, either raw or equipped. If the raw guys were so strong and truly believed they were better lifters then why don't they just put on equipment and show everyone once and for all ya know?

yeah i agree with that

you seem a bit pissed at me, im not tryin to stir it up or anything, thanks for takin the time anyway.

Now back off topic, what are pants anyway, i have jeans, tracksuit bottoms and trousers. pants???

Malteaser!

bigstar wrote: »

i mean as in who is the strongest lifter in the world right now the equipped world champion or the raw world champion, but i get it its the equipped guy anyway because hed still beat the raw guy raw.

They're both the strongest (aka best) in their respective categories.

You wouldn't try to compare Nascar to Formula One, even tho they're both forms of car racing - they're two totally different categories.

Hanley

bigstar wrote: »

i mean as in who is the strongest lifter in the world right now the equipped world champion or the raw world champion, but i get it its the equipped guy anyway because hed still beat the raw guy raw.

Strongest deadlift = Andy Bolton
Strongest benchers = Ryan Kennelly
Strongest squatter = Brian Siders or Donnie Thompson

3 out of the 4 compete in multiply. 1 lifts single ply and they all absolutely spank the strongest "raw" guys.

well i wouldnt even be in the pack. im not trying to come across critical of equipment other than to understand it better, i didnt even know there were suits till a few months ago. i dont have a problem with equipment, squatting 1000lbs in a suit is damn impressive and im in no position to criticise.

Wasn't saying you did!! You're just curious, it's an unusual concept for those not in powerlifting like. You see the bitching a lot on American forums, and they're pretty much all keyboard warriors!

The difference between improved equipment in PL and other sports is that you've a lot of poeple lifting weights in the gym so comparisons tend to be made (or at least they try to be!!).

Think of it this way, I'm sure in pole valuting records/performances have gone up because of better poles, same with tennis and carbon fibre rackets -v- wooden, same with spikes on the track etc etc... All of these progressions in technology have lead to improved sporting performance. But for some reason no-one bats an eyelid!

i meant comp wise that the sport is equipped or seems that way to me. i know training would be done raw, then with wraps, straps up, down etc., and i know your squat is big because your strong not because of a suit.

Pretty much...

you seem a bit pissed at me, im not tryin to stir it up or anything, thanks for takin the time anyway.

Not at all!! This argument comes up so frequently that "you" refers to the collective "you". Not you specifically!! Apologies if that'show it came across.

Now back off topic, what are pants anyway, i have jeans, tracksuit bottoms and trousers. pants???

That's the topic of pants.... what ever we talk about it going to be on-topic because the thread is topicless!!