DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

The Cush

Deleted User wrote: »

Is that your conjecture ?
I thought we'd established that it was a dead duck,a money pit no one in their right mind would be interested in..
Are you suggesting we should have another 6 months or a year of palava?

What we have established is that you, I and everyone posting here has their opinion and have conjectured on the process and all are equally valid unless of course any of us are directly in the process :rolleyes:. So lets continue the debate/speculation and await the outcome of the meeting .

What we know for a fact is the BAI board meeting happens on 31st May where the next steps in the process will be decided with reference to the Broadcasting Act.

Press reports have speculated that some of those involved in the failed process may be interested in resubmitting a bid in any new process based on the current economic climate.

Deleted User wrote: »

I think that if there were potential lunatics in the woodwork interested in this farce,that they would have came out before the financial crisis and certainly would have surfaced during the now defunct tender process.

Yes, Boxer, Onevision and Easy TV.

The Cush

Satdog wrote: »

Anyone know what are the plans are for Forth Mountain, Co Wexford. As far as I'm aware there is currently no TV transmission from that site. Is a relay station planned? If it is already designated to commence transmission in the Autumn - according to the PQ - when will testing commence and what channel will be used?

Yes a relay is planned, see this post. It could be one the sites the Minister said that may be delayed and construction will be dependent on weather conditions.

The channels allocated are 52, 53, 56, 57, 60, 63, 66, 68.

@ the cush

No offense meant but I think most people would agree that pay dtt is dead in the water.
It took murdock with all his hundreds of millions ,years to get it paying in a 60 million people market on satelite and now he has practically all the market in Ireland aswell with his churn going the freesat route with their paid for dish.

Yes, Boxer, Onevision and Easy TV.

I meant new people.
If they didn't express an interest when there was maybe a hope of it breaking even or making smaller losses [a tiny hope at that] , they would have been there in the process that has now died.

New people wanting to burn money on this would surprise me.
I'm not expecting to be surprised.
The BAI and it's prior incarnation should have worked that out years ago.
They are simply not on top of their job.

mrdtv2010

Its interesting how this discussion seems to be trapped in a ground-hog day. The facts remain:

a) the commercial bidders pulled out time after time.

b) this process has been going on for 12 years.

c) RTE have made no firm announcements.

d) The addressable DTT market is probably less than 20% of Irish TVHH. Peanuts.

e) The wider EU economic situation is eroding by the day, never mind the DIRE situation in the UK and Ireland.

f) RTE's underlying economics are decidely shaky.

For these reasons delays are inevitable. Sky could kill the whole thing off completely by offering a FreesatfromSky offer in Ireland, they are probably just biding their time nicely until they can administer the coup de grace in the most economically efficient way.

Biffo The Bare

Deleted User wrote: »

New people wanting to burn money on this would surprise me.
I'm not expecting to be surprised.
The BAI and it's prior incarnation should have worked that out years ago.
They are simply not on top of their job.

Totally agreed.
If the BCI/BAI spent zero man hours and zero euros of taxpayers money on this project over the last 12 years, we would be in a better position. They and Councillor Ryan are idiotic wastes of space.

watty

Even if Sky offered that expired cards and/or a once off card purchase decoded the four Irish channels, the four Irish channels would still have to be on DTT.

We can't rely on a Foriegn PayTV organisation on Foriegn owned satellites on an Orbital Slot for a Foriegn country and risk losing all TV if there is a Solar Storm. Since about five different "Foriegns" are involved (Sky is less British than any of us), that's a problem too.

We could maybe rely on a "SaorSat" from Sky scheme for the last 5% of coverage

I agree that pay DTT has never been viable at startup. Some form of "Top Up" TV may be possible in 2014 or so when DTT is established.

Also the 2nd 2006/2008 scheme had no sensible allocation for Indigenous HDTV, that was possibly forgivable in 1999, but not now.

Elmo

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

Totally agreed.
If the BCI/BAI spent zero man hours and zero euros of taxpayers money on this project over the last 12 years, we would be in a better position. They and Councillor Ryan are idiotic wastes of space.

Don't forget "Councillors" S. DeValera, N. Dempsey, F. Fahy and D. Ahern i.e. Those that should have sorted out the mess long before E. Ryan ever entered the Dept. (He has actually got it further along then those before him, and that is a sad state of affairs).

How much money was spent by the dept/BAI on this process? Would not have thought that it was huge amount.

Sam Russell

One could see this as an oportunity for RTE to try to go it alone on a scaled back FTA version. They have already put RTE NEWS NOW onto the DTT platform. Is it licenced by the BAI?

More channels of that type, using already licenced content for rebroadcast, is a possibility. As is going HD from the start.

All this negativity.:) Wake up and smell the coffee.

The Cush

Deleted User wrote: »

@ the cush

No offense meant

None taken, will call around later with the "lads" for "tea"

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

c) RTE have made no firm announcements.

f) RTE's underlying economics are decidely shaky.

Whatever about their finances the Dept has set the date for them to roll out the Saorview Mux. Further confirmed this week by the Minister that they will be launching the information campaign this autumn, no longer being held back by the commercial part of the process.

BoredNaMoaner

Along with the ground-hog day reasons, where was the effort to produce indigenous content exclusive to pay DTT? I don't think there was a proposal for a single new Irish channel in any of the operators plans.

Also, on the subject of foreign ownership of communication technology, I am not sure the case for a digital "Juche" is there. Ireland does not manufacture the tuners transmitters relays etc. I know it is not the best example, but Eircom, in charge of the national communication infrastructure, is not an Irish owned company. Also, there are alternative media distribution routes such as FM radio and streaming in a worst case scenario. I wonder if the government would have chosen DTT as a platform at all if it realised from the start that Pay DTT was a non-starter.

watty

Other countries launching DTT pay TV have pre-existing Indigenous payTV. Sometimes different platforms or different payTV providers on Satellite.

I don't think TV3e with it's viewing share is a very viable channel to promote PayTv.

Biffo The Bare

Elmo wrote: »

He has actually got it further along then those before him, and that is a sad state of affairs).

The BCI should have seen in 2002 that wow, the Freeview model in the UK is actually working, lets try something similar here. Launch in 2002 using the same MPEG2 standard, so that TVs, DVD recorders and Freeview boxes could be imported here direct from Britain with built in functioning DTT tuners at much lower cost. This would mean that the STB situation would at least now be a minor issue. Then RTE/TV3would put their channels on the first MUX, plus BBC1 and BBC2 by virtue of the MOU. By 2003 Sky and others would be clamouring to put a top-up Pay TV scenario in place on the other muxes.
Then Ryan got into power and we all woke up, the dream was dead. The nightmare began.
Now that i have f**ked up DTT what will I f**k up next?, Irish Rugby. What will I do for an encore. Broadband maybe?

Mr McBoatface

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

Then Ryan got into power and we all woke up, the dream was dead. The nightmare began.

In fairness to Ryan (of whom I'm no fan) I think he found himself inheriting a bit of a nightmare when he got the job. Pay DTT may have been successful had his predecessors for the last 10-12 years done more. He may have made some f***ups along the way but if Saorview is up and running by the end of the year I'll be happy, as of yesterday RTNL2 is running HD video test cards so we may even have Saorview HD so that's gotta be positive.

I agree with you about the ruby, hands off it Ryan. Money from pay TV helped Irish Ruby so why change the formula.

BoredNaMoaner

Article in today's Indo containing info about SaorView and wisdom to the masses from Watty.

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/surviving-the-recession/end-of-an-aerial-ways-to-get-more-channels-without-paying-fees-2186654.html

The Cush

BoredNaMoaner wrote: »

Article in today's Indo containing info about SaorView and wisdom to the masses from Watty.

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/surviving-the-recession/end-of-an-aerial-ways-to-get-more-channels-without-paying-fees-2186654.html

Posted in a seperate thread yesterday - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055916643

The Cush

From todays Indo, stakeholders meeting next week.

Digital TV switch by 2012, says Ryan

MEDIA

COMMUNICATIONS Minister Eamon Ryan is to meet the Broadcasting Authority, ComReg and RTE next week in a bid to kickstart the collapsed Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) project.

A spokeswoman for the minister said last night he was "disappointed" that the Broadcasting Authority's process to find a commercial DTT operator had failed. She added, however, that public service television would switch over from analogue to the DTT system by the EU's 2012 deadline "come what may".

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/digital-tv-switch-by-2012-says-ryan-2188565.html

sesswhat

Let's hear what Bob Collins has to say:

IFTN: And if these talks don’t work out is this something that really could go on and on?

BC: Well nothing goes on and on and on because nature provides its own limits in any event.

When everyone involved is dead???

slegs

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

For these reasons delays are inevitable. Sky could kill the whole thing off completely by offering a FreesatfromSky offer in Ireland, they are probably just biding their time nicely until they can administer the coup de grace in the most economically efficient way.

That would be some move to put a jeopardy the millions of revenue they take out of the irish market each year. Remember RTE on Sky is a key reason tehy have been successful in Ireland with pay tv. They would hemorrage subscribers if they made RTE freeview on sat for Irish viewers. Be great if it happened but i think hell might freeze over first.

Tony

I'm not so sure, what if they made RTE free to view with a sky card for say a limited (undefined at the outset) period killed off the competition and then at some future date charge again for RTE. I would not put such a scenario beyond them.

slegs wrote: »

That would be some move to put a jeopardy the millions of revenue they take out of the irish market each year. Remember RTE on Sky is a key reason tehy have been successful in Ireland with pay tv. They would hemorrage subscribers if they made RTE freeview on sat for Irish viewers. Be great if it happened but i think hell might freeze over first.

The Cush

sesswhat wrote: »

Let's hear what Bob Collins has to say:



When everyone involved is dead???

Read that a few days ago, I think that interview took place before the withdrawal of Easy TV and possibly Onevision. He has been quoted previously saying he was losing patience with the stalled Onevision negotiations.

slegs

Tony wrote: »

I'm not so sure, what if they made RTE free to view with a sky card for say a limited (undefined at the outset) period killed off the competition and then at some future date charge again for RTE. I would not put such a scenario beyond them.

Maybe...would be a bold move for sure....hard to take away something like that though without major backlash

watty

slegs wrote: »

That would be some move to put a jeopardy the millions of revenue they take out of the irish market each year. Remember RTE on Sky is a key reason tehy have been successful in Ireland with pay tv. They would hemorrage subscribers if they made RTE freeview on sat for Irish viewers. Be great if it happened but i think hell might freeze over first.

No, having RTE, TV3 & TG4 only helps. I doubt affect more than 10%.

Having BBC when it was FTV and all the pay channels at much better quality than MMDS analogue or Cable analogue is what really bootstrapped them. A high proportion, over the majority may have PayTV for Sport.

However 10% is significant.

I suspect this is part of reason why PVR is now entry level and SkyHD free install, to stave off Aerial + UK free channels. Also why outside of sub you are unlikely to have skybox recording.

slegs

watty wrote: »

No, having RTE, TV3 & TG4 only helps. I doubt affect more than 10%.

Having BBC when it was FTV and all the pay channels at much better quality than MMDS analogue or Cable analogue is what really bootstrapped them. A high proportion, over the majority may have PayTV for Sport.

However 10% is significant.

I suspect this is part of reason why PVR is now entry level and SkyHD free install, to stave off Aerial + UK free channels. Also why outside of sub you are unlikely to have skybox recording.

Skys subs in Ireland only really took off after RTE was added to the EPG. I wouldnt underestimate its importance for the average punter. It may not be most of their base that are subscribed for digital RTE (along with what can be got free anyway) but I would say it is much more than 10%.

watty

I'd agree it's hard to say and I always argued RTE etc should have been paid annually by sky rather than getting free carriage and free encryption.

So we both agree it's worth something to Sky.

Sam Russell

What will be interesting will be what hapens if RTE launch in HD. Will they give it to $ky or not?

If not, it will give the DTT a unique marketing plus. They are currently testing HD on DTT.

Biffo The Bare

Sam Russell wrote: »

What will be interesting will be what hapens if RTE launch in HD. Will they give it to $ky or not?

If not, it will give the DTT a unique marketing plus. They are currently testing HD on DTT.

Pigs are sprouting wings all over the country as we speak.
Maybe they will show the Lenster final again in HD.

Sam Russell

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

Pigs are sprouting wings all over the country as we speak.
Maybe they will show the Lenster final again in HD.

Well, it would allow RTE to jump ahead if they went HD from the start. The UK have a big problem with HD, because they have divided up the country in loads and loads of regions for TV, I think the Beeb have about 40, and 40 HD channels is just not on. RTE just have two channels and one region. They do not even have to go HD 24/7. Just peek time, and upsacale where necessary. It has the obvious benefit that there is just one transition from analogue to DTT HD. People will be getting new kit, just makes sure it is future proof.

Biffo The Bare

Sam Russell wrote: »

Well, it would allow RTE to jump ahead if they went HD from the start. The UK have a big problem with HD, because they have divided up the country in loads and loads of regions for TV, I think the Beeb have about 40, and 40 HD channels is just not on. RTE just have two channels and one region. They do not even have to go HD 24/7. Just peek time, and upsacale where necessary. It has the obvious benefit that there is just one transition from analogue to DTT HD. People will be getting new kit, just makes sure it is future proof.

If they had one channel and one region, somehow they would still find a way to screw it up. Mark my words.

watty

The actual Saorview spec calls for HD setboxes with HDMI and also downconversion to SCART for non-HD TVs.

The BBC don't have 40 regions? ITV have much fewer regions than they used to have.

The region thing is only an Issue on Satellite, not Terrestrial, as the satellite must carry all regions. Terrestrially a Mux will only carry local region.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

The actual Saorview spec calls for HD setboxes with HDMI and also downconversion to SCART for non-HD TVs.

The BBC don't have 40 regions? ITV have much fewer regions than they used to have.

The region thing is only an Issue on Satellite, not Terrestrial, as the satellite must carry all regions. Terrestrially a Mux will only carry local region.

I was exagerating the number of regions, but they do have a lot.

It does matter, because when three regions overlap, as they do, coverage is compromised and more transmitters are required, and HD puts a strain on their crowded spectrum.

We have only one region, and HD would not cause a problem on our spectrum, we could give each its own MUX.

Launching in HD gets over future conversion, and gives an incentive for DTT uptake.