DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

icdg

Tony wrote: »

I'm not so sure, what if they made RTE free to view with a sky card for say a limited (undefined at the outset) period killed off the competition and then at some future date charge again for RTE. I would not put such a scenario beyond them.

How would that be different than what is currently offered by Sky at the moment, whereby RTÉ is included in every package? It was different when it was only on the Family Pack but now everyone (on the "new" pricing schemes - and is there anyone left on the old?) gets RTÉ.

Unless you mean expired Sky cards, of course. I'm not sure that would see a significant increase.

We accept that RTÉ cannot go free to air on satellite as it will kill off its ability to acquire foreign (well, US in particular) programming - it would effectively need to start buying UK rights as well. If its free-to-view, you still need to pay someone to run a conditional access system (which would almost certainly need to be Sky) to ensure that FTV cards are being only distributed to Irish addresses. You might remember that this was the case in the UK originally, but the BBC decided that it was more cost effective to be free to air.

As for DTT, the only place I can see it going here is the Freeview model. I despise the Saorview name (the word "Free" needs to be in there - in English - in order to market it correctly IMHO), but I think its the only game in town.

Tony

I think you misunderstand my idea. Sky set up "Freesat from Sky" for Ireland with RTE included for no monthly fee in the same way as they did in the UK for Uk channels. It would be relatively easy to then dominate the market and kill off any notion of commercial DTT.

scath

I agree with ya Tony. They could do it. The only market for commercial DTT is sport, films & adult. People may decry adult but it pays the multiplexing bills. Of course that's if it gets past the regulator. But charging for channels free on satellite that was planned would fail for sure. I would expect FreesatfromSky can't be too far away as more people become aware of Free-to-air satellite closer to DTT Launch. At that stage, Sky might well come into the breach. It looks like we'll get a kind of Top-up TV setup with perhaps even Sky, Setanta & Others offering subscription options and the other UK broadcasters using the advertising and licensing, some even can offer a few Irish programmes specifically on cable and DTT.

Elmo

scath wrote: »

People may decry adult but it pays the multiplexing bills. Of course that's if it gets past the regulator.

Since most of the channels suggested by Boxer, One Vision and Easy TV were all regulated from outside the state the regulator really should have no problem with PPV Adult Channels on DTT, after all they would not be licencing the channel. :rolleyes:

watty

All content on UPC cable needs approved by BAI (previously BCI). Only content uploaded from Ireland on Satellite needs BAI approval as it's a foriegn system.

No channel can be on DTT without BAI approval. Unless it's beamed from Wales or N.I. and not originated here.

watty

watty wrote: »

No channel can be on DTT without BAI approval. Unless it's beamed from Wales or N.I. and not originated here.

Interestingly...we get babestation on freeview here from wales but I understand it's not available on freeview in NI...

watty

Perhaps due to ASO there is more Muxes in Wales than NI?

Elmo

watty wrote: »

No channel can be on DTT without BAI approval. Unless it's beamed from Wales or N.I. and not originated here.

DTT Ireland I assume you mean i.e. they have no control over FreeView.

They have very little control of TV channels on UPC. If this is the case how did UPC get permission to put Buzz TV and Smile TV on their service? Both OfCom Licencees.

The Cush

watty wrote: »

Perhaps due to ASO there is more Muxes in Wales than NI?

No, 6 multiplexes in both regions. I believe Supercasino isn't available in NI either as gambling channels are banned by local legislation, could be the same with the slapper channels.

See this from Digitalspy - http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=970584

watty

So ultimately Wales, N.I., Scotland can have / could have different rules for DTT? FTA on Satellite makes a nonsense of it though. Have the MLAs not heard of Satellite?

Personally when I am World Dictator I will ban Slapper & Gambling channels, folks can get it on the Internet if they want

I will make HD be 2048 x 1152 48 fps progressive with a minimum average bit rate of 10Mbps. Pay TV licences will be conditional on having no Adverts. Adverts will be banned on PSB radio and one PSB TV channel. Cap on TV presenters and DJs of Average Industrial Wage * 1.5 to have more money for actual real content

However I won't be providing flying cars, sharks with lasers or personal robotic servants.

Elmo

watty wrote: »

Personally when I am World Dictator I will ban Slapper & Gambling channels, folks can get it on the Internet if they want

I will make HD be 2048 x 1152 48 fps progressive with a minimum average bit rate of 10Mbps. Pay TV licences will be conditional on having no Adverts. Adverts will be banned on PSB radio and one PSB TV channel. Cap on TV presenters and DJs of Average Industrial Wage * 1.5 to have more money for actual real content

However I won't be providing flying cars, sharks with lasers or personal robotic servants.

Agree that you should ban slapper/play TV type TV.

All TV presenters and DJs or just the PSBing ones

James Bond would easily destroy you if you don't have the sharks with the lasers.

I would semi agree with Ad revenue but the TV licence would have to go towards RTÉ One in its entirety. Network 2 could be run like Channel 4.

Pat Gleeson

watty wrote: »

Personally when I am World Dictator I will ban Slapper & Gambling channels, folks can get it on the Internet if they want

I will make HD be 2048 x 1152 48 fps progressive with a minimum average bit rate of 10Mbps. Pay TV licences will be conditional on having no Adverts.

You've got my vote - if a dictator needs a vote that is

The Cush

Pat Gleeson wrote: »

You've got my vote - if a dictator needs a vote that is

The most popular dictators win at least 100% of the vote and then end up a little reclusive .

carrolls

watty wrote: »

So ultimately Wales, N.I., Scotland can have / could have different rules for DTT? FTA on Satellite makes a nonsense of it though. Have the MLAs not heard of Satellite?

Personally when I am World Dictator I will ban Slapper & Gambling channels, folks can get it on the Internet if they want

I will make HD be 2048 x 1152 48 fps progressive with a minimum average bit rate of 10Mbps. Pay TV licences will be conditional on having no Adverts. Adverts will be banned on PSB radio and one PSB TV channel. Cap on TV presenters and DJs of Average Industrial Wage * 1.5 to have more money for actual real content

However I won't be providing flying cars, sharks with lasers or personal robotic servants.

I would put the slapper channels at 2048 x 1152 48 fps for a better view.:D

Sam Russell

The Cush wrote: »

The most popular dictators win at least 100% of the vote and then end up a little reclusive .

I would have thought it was the LEAST popular dictators that got 100% of the vote.:D

lawhec

watty wrote: »

So ultimately Wales, N.I., Scotland can have / could have different rules for DTT? FTA on Satellite makes a nonsense of it though. Have the MLAs not heard of Satellite?

I believe the black-out of Super Casino in N.Ireland is down to the practical enforcement of gambling laws over here being slightly different compared to Britain. Without knowing exactly why or how it is banned, I'd take a guess and say that laws regarding it in England & Wales never got fully updated for N.Ireland. That has happened in several cases, the best known one was that for many years you could have kept certain animals like tigers and puma, even crocodiles if you like, in your back garden without a licence or even notifying the authorities unlike over in Britain were strict conditions were imposed. I think the situation was equalised a few years ago.

Elmo

Just to point out - before we get carried away with all this anti-gambling/porn vision TV - that shopping TV Gem TV and Ideal World were both on the One Vision list of channels. Whatever about getting people to pay for Free TV or even Pay TV but Shopping TV?

icdg

lawhec wrote: »

I believe the black-out of Super Casino in N.Ireland is down to the practical enforcement of gambling laws over here being slightly different compared to Britain. Without knowing exactly why or how it is banned, I'd take a guess and say that laws regarding it in England & Wales never got fully updated for N.Ireland.

You're likely to be right there. Broadcasting is not a devolved matter (for example, it is the UK Secretary of State for Culture, Media, and Sport - who is currently English - not the Welsh Assembly Government, that appoints the board of S4C). But gambling legislation might well be devolved.

Northern Ireland is a seperate legal jurisdiction to England and Wales (as is Scotland) with its own laws, which are not necessarily the same as in England and Wales, even on non-devolved matters, and its own court system (which mirrors the English one in structure but is still a seperate system with different judges).

The Cush

From the Sunday Business Post

BAI: future of digital TV process shrouded in doubt

23 May 2010 By Catherine O’Mahony

Ireland’s commercial digital terrestrial television (DTT) project may have ground to a halt.

The Broadcasting Authority of Ireland (BAI) is set to consider within the next two weeks whether to renew the search for an operator of three commercial multiplexes to provide paid-for DTT. Three attempts to agree a deal have already failed.

BAI chief executive Michael O’Keeffe said a decision would be taken by the BAI board at its next meeting on May 31. Communications minister Eamon Ryan will also be considering the matter.

The BAI members and the government have two basic options: to abandon the commercial DTT project altogether or attempt a fresh fast-track process to get the project back in operation.

There are numerous problems with the latter option. RTE is preparing to launch free-to-air DTT to most of the country this year, and has already spent €40 million on developing a transmission network for it. A full service is scheduled for 2012.

This leaves any new entrant to the field with very limited time to get organised.

It’s also uncertain where fresh interest might come from. The DTT licensing process has been going on for two years, and has already involved virtually all companies that might have been expected to take an interest.

‘‘We would have to take into account what happened in the past and the number and calibre of the applicants involved in the last process," O’Keeffe said. ‘‘There is a question mark over whether another process would be successful. These factors will be have to be taken into consideration by the board."

Initially, the expectation was that a commercial DTT service could build up a market share of as much as 20 per cent. Its principal target was identified as the 260,000 households that relied solely on analogue terrestrial services, and who either can’t afford, or don’t want, a cable or satellite service.

The first preferred applicant for commercial DTTwas Boxer (headed by Communicorp). It decided not to proceed after the economy went into a tailspin, and it failed to agree terms with RTE over access to the DTT transmission network.

Earlier this year, the BAI ended negotiations with OneVision, the second applicant, whose members included Eircom, Setanta andTV3.

Easy TV, originally the favourite for the contract, and a consortium led by RTE and UPC, pulled out last week.

O’Keeffe defended the BAI’s handling of the selection process, and mainly blamed the economy for the difficulties that were encountered.

‘‘I think it was a good process, but the changing economic circumstances upset things," he said.

It’s understood that the groups that bid for the licence have also told the BAI that there should have been more clarity at the outset from RTE NL, the networking division of RTE, about the kind of security it felt it required from any commercial DTT operator.

RTE NL was seeking up to €20 million as a security deposit from Boxer and OneVision.

It appears that neither of them was able to produce this sum. Both groups failed to agree terms with RTE NL, and this was one of the reasons why their licence applications were eventually abandoned.

RTE said it did not wish to comment on the latest developments.

The eventual cost to it (and the licence payer) of setting up a DTT network - for free-to-air - will be around €70 million.

No decision has yet been taken as to what channels will be on offer on this free-to-air service, other than the basic quota of RTE 1, RTE 2, TG4 and TV3.There is provision in legislation for RTE to develop and broadcast two extra free channels - one featuring the Oireachtas and one film channel, but in the current economic circumstances, it’s not clear if this is realistic.

However, sources said there was concern that if RTE was left to go it alone on DTT, it would be very hard to drum up business for this new service.

It was always understood that a combined approach from the start, between RTE and a commercial operator, to market and distribute the DTT service would be crucial to its success. A so-called ‘DTT champion’ was always part of the project.

Launching DTT will be a complicated exercise requiring set-top box distribution and an extensive public information campaign.

It would make limited sense for RTE to launch in 2012, and then for a commercial operator to follow some years later. As the delay continues, satellite and cable TV providers such as Sky and UPC are continuing to add subscribers.

RTE’s managing director Cathal Goan has, in the past, made it clear that he believes that RTE and the commercial DTT provider should ‘‘all jump together’’. Time, however, is running out.

BoredNaMoaner

Reading this article I wonder do TPTB prefer to postpone the October launch.

It would make limited sense for RTE to launch in 2012, and then for a commercial operator to follow some years later.

You have to also laugh at the guff at laying the blame on changing Economic circumstances-the state went through the biggest economic expansion in its history from when the DTT project was first fielded.

watty

More like 10 years or 4 years depending on if you take the 2000 shift in policy or the fake trials started in 2006.

"Limited sense" = Not very sensible?

Anyway for a Politician it's easier to do nothing than something and hardest to reverse a decision (U Turn, not me!). Ryan has signed the the free DTT to start on 31st Oct 2010, so unless he U turns, that stands no matter what BAI decide to do or not do about Pay DTT.

scath

I don't agree entirely with the laying of the blaim on the economic situation. Sadly I think that the department of comms are they ones to blaim for the failure on this, and ultimately the politicians. It was all to do with timing. Ultimately back in 1999 delay for 2 years, but then the trial should have been 1 year long not 2 years and started in 2004. This is where things went bad. No doubt the DTT operation would have hit big bumps now.

watty

Of course if pay DTT HAD launched in 2000, 2002, 2004 or 2006 it would have gone bust by now with about €20M to €100M in debts depending on how easily they got credit and how "brave" they were with other people's money. RTENL would be €20M to €80M out of pocket if they didn't have initial bond.

carrolls

It was always understood that a combined approach from the start, between RTE and a commercial operator, to market and distribute the DTT service would be crucial to its success. A so-called ‘DTT champion’ was always part of the project.

One look at the OnDigital to Freeview scenario in Britain 10 years ago should have given the BCI a clue as to what was the most viable option to roll out.
The commercial operator should have always been a secondary entity on the platform, like TopUp TV. Anything else was doomed to failure.
Now if RTE cannot afford to go digital as the primary operator, they may as well declare insolvency now.

slegs

carrolls wrote: »

One look at the OnDigital to Freeview scenario in Britain 10 years ago should have given the BCI a clue as to what was the most viable option to roll out.
The commercial operator should have always been a secondary entity on the platform, like TopUp TV. Anything else was doomed to failure.
Now if RTE cannot afford to go digital as the primary operator, they may as well declare insolvency now.

ASO is a reality so they have to find a way out of this mess

BoredNaMoaner

I am sorry but I don't see what the huge mess is. With regard to pay DTT certainly, but fingers crossed that is dead and buried now. If Saorview launches then everyone migrates to digital STB/built-in tuners and then after ASO the analogue transmitters are switched off and everyone is using digital. So-o, why is there unease at a (free) system that will be widely welcomed by the public when the Department of Communications was pushing a must-fail pay-DTT model for near a decade?

slegs

BoredNaMoaner wrote: »

I am sorry but I don't see what the huge mess is. With regard to pay DTT certainly, but fingers crossed that is dead and buried now. If Saorview launches then everyone migrates to digital STB/built-in tuners and then after ASO the analogue transmitters are switched off and everyone is using digital. So-o, why is there unease at a (free) system that will be widely welcomed by the public when the Department of Communications was pushing a must-fail pay-DTT model for near a decade?

I agree...but the mess is how to pay for it. Cost has been modelled on a shared payment from Pay DTT and this is not going to happen. Most here can see that it was/is never going to happen but either way that leaves a cost hole that RTE dont have the funds to cover. Ultimately the government will have to stump up to complete the rollout but that is what they are trying to avoid.

I think the only solution is to launch with the transmitters they have ready on Saorview and slow the rest of the rollout until they have to do it in advance of ASO in 2104/2015. Not ideal but at least there would be a service. Making Pay DTT a prerequisite for the launch is just stupid at this stage.

The Cush

Half page article in today's Irish Examiner titled "Ryan's vision for digital TV now a blur" by Seán McCárthaigh (not available online).

He speculates in the article that the BAI may not make a decision either way next Monday however he states "informed sources said it would be a surprise if the BAI decided on the latter route" (i.e. launch a new tender). The article indicates that neither Denis O'Brien or RTÉ would be interested in re-tendering.

He inaccurately states that if it fails to launch viewers will have to subscribe to a pay cable or satellite provider to watch the popular UK terrestrial channels, he obviously did read the article in the Irish Indo recently.

The article also mentions the stakeholders meeting which is due to happen this week. It also indicates surprise that Sky were not involved in the original process and wonders if they might come in at the last minute but rules it out as Sky will gain subscribers after ASO and Eamon Ryan's plans for free-to-air rugby.

carrolls

The Cush wrote: »

He inaccurately states that if it fails to launch viewers will have to subscribe to a pay cable or satellite provider to watch the popular UK terrestrial channels,.

Is this not correct in a lot of cases? How else will we get them free if you don't live in the range of a UK transmitter, or cannot put up a dish. The BBC via the MOU was frittered away by Ryan in a vain attempt to keep OneVision interested.

Satdog

carrolls wrote: »

Is this not correct? How else will we get them. The BBC via the MOU was frittered away by Ryan in a vain attempt to keep OneVision interested.

You don't have to subscribe to a pay provider if you go the FTA/Freesat route.