Finally given up on the Sporting Emprium!

hatedajacks

After 4 years of playing Poker I have finally given up on the SE and will be playing my poker elsewhere from now on. It has been written many times on here about how little the higher Management care about the Poker room but recently it has become quite clear that the lower and middle management couldnt care less also.
On Saturday I bumped a thread promoting the SE 300 game as they couldnt be bothered. I have noticed Bigbadpat do the same in recent times. I remember 2 years at the IPO John Scanlon out handing out leaflets promoting the SE and up coming games. Yet at Citywest when there was no hold em side event on Saturday night they didnt care to sent a rep out.
They dont update their website. The standard of dealing has gone down drastically as the likes of Jack,Eugene,Stephen and Kasia are now mostly on the gaming floor.
Then i approached Middle Management recently about forming a Players commitee and getting together and creating a decent Tourney schedule. I said that if they were to push for some small guarantees I would look to contact as many people i could who used play in SE and are now Fitz regs and help get them back. I presumed they would get back to me. The next day they put up their new tournament scedule(which is terrible by the way)
I just dont get it. In this current difficult climate I have never witnessed a business try so little to keep/boost Business. I like many others go in to work each week trying to come up with different ideas/strategies to ensure i keep my job and dont have to let others go. For whatever reason the people in charge in the SE dont seem to have the same worries. I hope i wont be barred from the SE for writing this as i am sure i will be back for the odd tourney and i consider myself friends with many who work there but I wont be there for a while and I will find myself somewhere else to play at least until they sort themselves out.

tm2204

It's a sad state of affairs when such a die hard Sporting reg and supporter feels the need both to write this and to play his poker elsewhere.

I used to play in the Sporting sometimes and I think nearly every time I was there the likes of Kev, Danny, MickSte & Swar were always there. It's a fab cardroom but it's dying a slow death and its sad to see this happening looking on.

Lots of the above mentioned regs have gone out of their way to suggest improvements and even, like Kev above, offer their time to help make improvements only to have it thrown back in their faces.

If someone like Kev Corr who just recently qualified for the Irish Open through the Sporting feels the need to write this then something is drastically wrong in the place.

Jayminator

The fact that there is not even a response from the SE to this thread shows their lack of interest. I had suggested to the SE about even getting some hoodies etc for the IO and I would imagine Alex hit a brick wall when he enquired.

Last Saturday the SE had 0 runners for the €300 game so badly advertised. There were 700 players out in citywest on Friday. Half that field was gone on day 1. With no NLHE tourny lined up for the Saturday night at the IO this was an excellent chance to fill this tourny but to no avail.

I feel your pain Kev but horses being dead and flogged etc etc....

NickyOD

Poker Players have been considered a waste of sandwiches and tea by more tha just the SE down through the years.

Nothing new here tbh. Just go somewhere else. There's always a good game somewhere.

SWAR

I can't say I'm surprised with your comments Kev, it was always on the cards (excuse the pun)! When I was home last during Christmas I did pay a visit to the SE on a few occasions...I actually thought the numbers appeared to have picked up a bit since I left in August; however that was probably due to it being Cristmas and the number of drunkin degens around (like me)!

It's a shame they have let it go the way they have. The management in there just don't seem to care about the opinions of the poker players...a perfect example being the continuous requests for a players committee as Kev stated. It may not have helped anyway but it wouldn't of hurt to form it on a trial basis and at least they would of appeared to be showing some respect to their customers.

I think it has changed slightly these days, but initally there was too may people walking around the place in suits acting like managers...personally I had no idea who was in charge...they probably thought they all were, and there in lies a major problem. IMO there should be one gaming floor manager, one assistant manager and one card room manager...afterall it's not rocket science ffs...it's a casino in Dublin, and not a very busy one at that anymore. God I'm finding myself getting very angry writing this...deep breaths!!

Anyway, I think you're right Kev, you need to go somewhere else to play, they obviously don't listen and they will ultimately find out the hard way. We are told the managers read boards from time to time but I find that very hard to believe - the're probably reading the wrong forum! Go straight to the top if you want change...a letter to direct to Mr Desmond!

YULETIRED

If I remember correctly, the monthly 200 game started off as a monthly boardsie clash, the SE facilitated it and there were good numbers for it. (plus some banter)
The SE then advertised this tourny as thier own going forward and the boardsie clash element decreased, plus the self advertising died with it. I say have a 200 monthly event and offer it to whoever will stage it. I like the surrounding in the SE so I'd have no problem playing there. The boardise monthly could catch on again , it was a wee bit o craic for the few months when it started.

carfax

The SE don't advertise at the likes of the IO, or any other events simply because the management have a policy of not letting other festival organisers advertise in their room (so at least their not hypocritical).

I remember when the SE was just getting started, Alex and a couple of the staff used to come down to the Gresham for PE tournaments that I was organising at the time, they signed up loads of new members at these tournaments and it really kicked off from there for them, then the management screwed the players over and over again...I do feel sorry for the likes of Alex and other members of the really good staff that they have but players have been treated so badly now for so long.

______________________

I would definitely be up for organising a Boards 200 game if it will get good numbers. Going to start a new thread about it now.

tylerdurden94

Its a sad and true state of affairs when you have the likes of Kev coming on here to make this thread, that the Sporting Emporim is slowly circling the drain.

I along with Kev would be considered an SE regular, and ive said it before i would like to be loyal to the first place that i really enjoyed playing cards, but i think it really is time to face facts that if i want a decent game that im gonna have to look elsewhere for it. Im not playing as much as i was so when i do go out to play a tournie i like to go and know that it would get a crowd. Only in the last while have i started to ring ahead to see if there are games going, gone nearly are the days when i would just go in knowing that there is gonna be a big crowd.

Kev mentioned the dealers, i could never understand why they took the best poker dealers and stuck them all on the gaming floor. Yes the dealers that came from downstairs, they know how to deal poker but some of them just don't get it or don't seem to enjoy it. The likes of Jack, Kasia, Eugene, Stephen they got the game, they got how to keep the game moving getting in the most amount of hands, just small bits and bobs that made them excellent poker dealers.

With Alex very rarely on the poker floor and John not working for the SE anymore, the one person i think who is doing a fantastic job up there is PJ, i have seen him do some great things up there lately and in my opinion should be given a bigger roll, thats if he wants it of coarse

I think there is some miscommunication going on in there, for example i turned up to play there monthly Monday game last week, i knew that the first Monday of every month (until the change again) was a different game but when i arrived the doormen told me that it was a €10 multi rebuy i had to inform them that they were wrong, people had been ringing up and been told that it was the normal €10 game and that they were interested in playing it but if the correct info had been given out for sure the tournie would of gotten a few more runners.

One last point i would like to make, they have seen the numbers that they have gotten when they guaranteed tickets to the Irish Open, why on earth cant they not see that if they were to start off guaranteeing one of their weekly games that the numbers (imo) would start to pick up again

Danny Maxwell.

hatedajacks

Couldnt agree more with u Danny about PJ. He is a very talented TD and regularly announces up and coming events during tournaments. Unfortunatly he is fighting an very steep up hill battle.

SpencerJames

I never put in my 2 cents on these threads but this time I feel it important to do so.

It would of taken alot for Kev to write this thread. He has the SE flowing through his veins!

I have to echo what he has said. The Se has done nothing to compete or maintain their players. When I started out there, on any thursday-sunday there were 3-4 PLHE games and the "Big Game" which had a bout 20 regs. The atmosphere was friendly and the staff top class!

The tournaments were great structures. I remember they used to get 50+ every monday for the 100fo. This was where alot of Dublins best tournament players learned the game.

Now the structure is crap, the buyins silly, the staff exhausted and exploited. It needs to change. They had their cash league last night and I was 20th on the list with 30 hours! 60 hours was what was needed. I doubt they got more than 15!

Its a long way from its hey day and when it really was the best card room in Dublin. I will follow Kevs lead and be another reg ruled out!

Until the SE put together a players committee or show some sort of respect and value on their players I wont be in there.

I think the staff are great. The likes of PJ, Eugene, Jack, Stephen, Kasia, Izabel, Geoff, Alex and the waitresses are not to blame one bit. Its the middle to higher management and I hope they respond to this thread.

Rory

SWAR

SpencerJames wrote: »

They had their cash league last night and I was 20th on the list with 30 hours! 60 hours was what was needed. I doubt they got more than 15!

12 qualified Rory and only 9 turned up, speaks volumes.

Macspower

Is it really gone this bad lads? TBH I rarely play live now and when I do I tend to pick my tourneys...

I did turn up on my own for the 300 game on saturday and ended up in the fitz with about 4 tables instead...

I suppose with som much to choose from now you've got to look after the customers

Glowingmind

Gonna throw my oar in here too.

Just want to preface this by saying, I hate the Fitz and the jackpot - i'm not sure why, i just do.

I've been playing in the various clubs around Dublin for several years but the majority of my play has been in the SE. I signed up not long after it opened and decided to make it my regular venue pretty much immediately. The staff were excellent and for the most part still are, the tourneys were packed and the cash games were filled with some of the worst players i've ever come up against.

Two years ago you could walk in on a thursday night and expect over 60 players guaranteed in the double chance with strong showings in all the other games. Now, I come in hoping that there'll be more than two tables. All of my occasional forays into the NLH game were prompted not by the club, but instead by the people who were in the games. As a recreational player, I have the luxury of not having to rely on playing to cover my rent, I just play for my own enjoyment, and I was willing to drop a few buyins if needed be. This was prompted by the fact that I would see the game and know that I could sit in and play with people, who i don't necessarily consider friends, but are people I like and enjoy playing with, even when correct game selection said sit in the PL game. For whatever reason, the games I consider enjoyable just don't run anymore (and this includes the tourneys which is where the vast bulk my play has occurred) and I struggle to find reasons to go into the SE anymore and find myself more and more donking my money away in front of my PC.


It used to be the case where if I was up for a game, the SE was the default venue, but far too many times I arrived to be told "sorry, private party tonight". Like many others this would force me to make a call between the jackpot or the Fitz (the fitz usually won). I think this was a huge factor in the current situation - We have/had too many cardrooms in Dublin and are spoiled for choice, so most people will have experienced being turned away once and have moved to another club where they're guaranteed a game all the time (the Fitz on a friday night is a testament to this). Now, if i have the Friday night itch to play a donkament, the SE barely comes into my thoughts and I find that pretty depressing.

I would genuinely love to see the SE pick up again, and I did make a concerted effort to play there more regularly in the wake of the last "new schedule", but my interest is waning again.

I'd really like to see the SE make a genuine effort to try to get us back playing there, but as most of you know, the poker floor will never be a priority in there.

Jayminator

SpencerJames wrote: »

I think the staff are great and the waitresses are not to blame one bit.

Rory

Post fixed for ya Rory. God you ramble on a bit dont ya.

Lao Lao

Just to echoe what a few others have already said. I've posted on this before and it's sad to see even more regs now looking to play elsewhere. I'm not playing as much live as I used to but now when I go out, it's almost an effort to go to the SE. If I want a cash game, I'm going to have to wait until 10:30-11 and if I want a tourney, then the only night really worth while going into the SE is Sunday night and even then, the max you are going to get is 4 tables.

It used to be such a great place but middle and upper management have made a complete balls of it. I remember about 4-6 months ago, I was asked by one of th senior managers if I had any suggestions for the poker room (They were apparently canvassing the players) While I didn't give any ground breaking ideas, everything that I did say was completely ignored and the canvassing players thing was clearly a load of crap.

I was in the Fitz weekend before last and I counted 15-20 old SE regs playing there in one night. I personnally don't like the Fitz (no logical reason for this just something about it) but sadly if I'm playing live, this is now my first port of call. I will no doubt head into the SE every now and then but until they get their act together (if they ever do) I'll be playing elsewhere

Somebody here mentioned that the management of the SE read these pages, I laughed out loud at that one, I really did. I doubt the middle and upper management of the SE know how to turn a PC on, they are only able to schmoooze people down on the gaming floor, that sadly is the extent of the skillset. I am actually tempted to write to Mr Desmond, just to see what kind of re-action it would get?

semibluff

SpencerJames wrote: »

It would of taken alot for Kev to write this thread. He has the SE flowing through his veins!

LOL

Pabloh

Sad to see Kev post this. Can't fault anything he or the other posters have said though. The club has been dying off for over a year now. I think the real start happened when they changed their tourney schedule a good while back and significantly increased the average buyin. This drove off many of the low stakes players and in turn meant less people getting money to play in the decent tournies. The change in the standard of dealing is noticeable too. The most competent ones are now on the blackjack tables. They have made some half hearted attempts at changing but only when it also made sense for the casino floor (food for instance). Like some other posters I dislike the Fitz - cash games are too noisy - and can only put up with the Jackpot on certain nights and in the wee hours of the morning. My live hours have dimished dramatically over the last 6 months and I don't want to play anywhere else but if I no longer can look forward to seeing a few mates in there the prospect of grinding away on a half full table of malcontents is not appealing. I have made the points below in a post on the events forum but I'll repeat them here:

I really believe that if the SE wants to get decent tournament numbers and therefore more cash players early in the night they need to consider a few options:

1. Get rid of the over 21 age policy. If they want to enforce a stricter dress code in order to discourage certain people from the main gaming room they could do that but they're missing out on a supply line of players if they block the early college crowd. As it is they go to the Fitz or Jackpot and with no decent game to lure them into the SE they're not going to change venue.

2. Have more tournaments with online qualifiers. The BetDaq thing got a number of people in to play and also had a few local qualifiers. They also have something coming up with a poker lecture and tournament attended by the Devilfish. From what I understand though there are only a very few places available to punters off the street and most have to be won/purchased online. I think it's limited to 60 places with only around 10 available to purchase directly. Something like this should have about half the places available to purchase through the club and if not purchased early on then maybe release the rest a week or so in advance online. Tournaments with internet qualfiers may help in a number of ways:
a) Bring new players to the club
b) Attract old/existing players back to a tournament they know is getting some decent numbers

3. Assign some of the cash league money as bonuses for regular tournaments. Not all players who contribute to the cash league qualify for it. In the overall interest of the club and rejuvenating attendance figures I doubt too many would object to taking 20% of the cash league money and adding it as a bonuses to small tournaments. A 50+5 tournament with 500 added would be likely to attract more players and these may in turn come back for other games or play cash afterwards.

Blah.

babymaker6

why dont the management of the SE just rent the poker room to
somebody who can capatalize on the huge potential the poker room
has to be profitable?

Pabloh

That might work. Likely to run into problems when the SE decides to hold a private party though and closes upstairs too. Not sure how much autonomy anyone managing the room is likely to have.

DAMO72

It's true what they say about a week being a long time in politics. Just over a week ago there was a few posters on here defending the SE for their tourney's and structures and now they are here slating them for having crappy games and doing nothin for players. Make up your mind's Hypocrites

5starpool

People were defending a 1 day tournment that went on until around 5am. I cannot see any point in your post except to try and annoy people. Well done.

RockRory

babymaker6 wrote: »

why dont the management of the SE just rent the poker room to
somebody who can capatalize on the huge potential the poker room
has to be profitable?

I agree with Fergus here. Jp McCann springs to mind.

I to am a regular in the SE, and find it very hard to convice myself to make the journey into here when you can't be even sure that there will be a game on. This is the first place i started to play live poker and i remember that everyone made you feel so welcome ( maybe cos i was the value ) even when i called them all in with my 2 outer and hit The likes of Kev, Danny, Mickste, Vera, Harold, Noel, Tony etc always make this there first port of call and are great ambassadors for the place. I have nothing against the other card rooms but the SE for me has been my poker home and i always feel comfortable there.

I can understand that the like of Alex and Pj have lost interest in promoting the venue. As far as i can see they are running into brick walls when they come up with suggestions on how to improve the place.

What is shocking to me is that i am playing there 4 years now and i couldn't even tell you who the actual MANAGER is. I am a high level manager in the hospitality industry and i make it my business to try and get to know all my guests and customer, NO MATTER HOW MUCH THEY SPEND.....

One of my earlier bosses in my career once said to me " look after the pennies, cos the pounds will look after themselves" wise word that i try to act on.

Listening to the customer and his/her needs is a key ingredient to successful hospitality business, Casino, Hotels, Restaurants, Bars, etc all need one thing to survive, CUSTOMERS.
Put the managers down working with me for a day or two and ill teach them a lesson in customer care.

Maybe writing to Mr Desmond is worth a shot. If nothing, its the only real option left in my opinion, no one else is listening, and i know i am tired of giving out.

Rory Keogh

DAMO72

5starpool wrote: »

People were defending a 1 day tournment that went on until around 5am. I cannot see any point in your post except to try and annoy people. Well done.

No Dom people are changing their minds like the wind just to go with the current flow of things. Where as i haven't changed my mind in any way , I totally agree with Kev's comments about the SE. But instead of coming on here bitchin about it why don't you guy's vote with your feet and stay away from it totally and then they might do something about it , but as long as you keep goin to it for the games that suit your own needs they wont do a thing as they know that you will turn up anyway.
My post wasn't meant to annoy any1 but if it did then maybe it's a good thing.

5starpool

This thread would not exist if they had tournies all the time like the one you are saying they were defending last week. It is due to the fact that there are not more things like that happening that people are complaining.

DAMO72

5starpool wrote: »

This thread would not exist if they had tournies all the time like the one you are saying they were defending last week. It is due to the fact that there are not more things like that happening that people are complaining.

You mean that the rest of their tourney's are actually worse than the one they were defending last week . Im suprised that they even get the cleaners in now if thats the benchmark they are going by.
Its nothin personell on my end Dom , I just dont like it when people come out slating the very thing that they were defending a week ago.

5starpool

It's the lack of effort to get people through the door and not listen to the regulars on the problems (of which the IO sats are not part of) that people are frustrated by. It is fairly clear tbh.

Lao Lao

DAMO72 wrote: »

I just dont like it when people come out slating the very thing that they were defending a week ago.

I haven't been on boards that much in the last week or two but who in this thread was defending the SE a week ago? linky?

DAMO72

5starpool wrote: »

It's the lack of effort to get people through the door and not listen to the regulars on the problems (of which the IO sats are not part of) that people are frustrated by. It is fairly clear tbh.

Well why support them when they run the likes of a sat for the irish open, Thats only telling them that your not happy with the place but you will turn up anyway. Tell me this Dom , If they had run that same game without it being a sat for the open how many players do ya reckon would have turned up.

Pabloh

DAMO72 wrote: »

You mean that the rest of their tourney's are actually worse than the one they were defending last week . Im suprised that they even get the cleaners in now if thats the benchmark they are going by.
Its nothin personell on my end Dom , I just dont like it when people come out slating the very thing that they were defending a week ago.

I don't think it's primarily the quality of the tourney that's the issue - rather the number of people potentially playing. If you were given the option of an excellent structured 50 euro freezeout which attacts 12 players and an inferior (but not appalling) one which gets 45 which do you go to? And if you stick with the decent structure and turn up next week and the game isn't even running due to lack of numbers are you likely to go back? The problem is that most of the old SE crowd now play elsewhere and it takes something extra special to get someone back when you've lost them. I don't see the numbers picking up based on structure alone - guaranteed prizepools or added money may get people back in the door.

The SE used to have a number of things going for it:

Excellent dealers - no longer the case across the board
Great surroundings/environment - still the case
Good variety of tournaments - not awful but changing too often
Large player base - long gone

If you have a company with an excellent product but poor customer base/reputation nobody will buy from you. They'll go for the more accepted albeit inferior brand. I love playing there and have no gripe with any member of staff but I do think the SE need to decide if they really want to run a serious card room.

Flushdraw

The Sporting Emporium is a business. The poker floor isn't making enough money to warrant them putting any effort or money into making it work.

If they have a €50+€5 game that atttacts 30 runners, they make €150 in reg. The might get 2 cash game tables that run for 4-5 hours and take €150 an hour in rake. Thats about €1k a night. When you take staff wages out of this, i reckon they make more on the gaming floor in an hour than they would on an average night.

If i was a bigwig in the Sporting Emporium, i'd be happy to have 2 floors of gaming and scrap poker. I'd hate to see that occur, but it looks like its going to happen soon.

El Stuntman

if all the above-named fish aren't playing in the SE, there's no reason for me to either Good posts all round.

even though my pokering has been curtailed this year due to excess small children (and subsequent extreme exhaustion), I've noticed the drop-off in numbers in the Aquarium on all my visits there (except for the one IO sat that I attended where there was a lot of runners and a good buzz around the joint). In truth this has been going on for a long time now. I thought this trend might be replicated in the Fitz (where I too have never felt wholly comfortable - not sure why) so I ventured in on a Monday evening for a game, not expecting much, and there were 70+ runners. :eek:

I think the main problem with the SE poker room is that it's the plaything of a very rich individual and thus doesn't need to make money\generate turnover in the same way as other casinos. Also the points about good managers\dealers being moved out of poker there are very valid. It's an awful shame as the location is superb and the facilities are the best in Dublin in terms of player comfort.

Still poker rooms thrive on volume and variety (both in terms of games being spread and relative abilities of player pool) so it looks like I'll be joining the exodus.

SE = wasted opportunity imo. With decent management, it could and should be the premier poker room in Dublin and entire country.