SUPER TUESDAY! Budget discussion thread MERGED

Quazzie

Acacia wrote: »

RE the Brian Cowen vid posted earlier in the thread. As a up-coming college graduate who had absolutely fcuk all to do with the economy collapsing, un-payable mortgages and all the rest, and someone faces certain unemployment for the next few years at least, I absolutely resent being told that 'everyone will have to take the strain'.

Fcuk that. Why should people like myself have to pay for what was fermenting when we were just kids?

Who do you think paid for your education. Us taxpayers. Do you expect free education and then to walk out into an automatic job because of it, along with some tax breaks to ease the pain.

Sanjuro

Cork4ever wrote: »

ahhh well lads ye are all very serious....lighted up we aint living in gaza or liberia.

Can i tell ye something......ff are here to stay for another 3 years....full term and there is nothing any of the key board generals on here can do about it.

For those of ye that i have annoyed....it doesnt bother me one bit i vote fianna fail for loads of reasons, but as can be seen from the posts on this board a fair and reasoned debate is not possible. as far as i can see you can express any opinion on this board as long as you agree with eveyone else.

As for the people talking about revolution and assinations, ye are a danergous lot, probably labour voters who dont have a clue how to run a country.....cause thats all ye know....guns and bombs and assinations

Ah, sweet irony. You complain that 'fair and reasoned debate is not possible.' And yet, a paragraph later you're hurling (grammatically and incorrectly spelled) accusations that every person here is a gun-toting Labour supporter. This also coming from someone who began their first statement with the declaration that they vote based on how daddy votes. Don't come on here complaining about the lack of reasoned argument when you're the one who lacks anything resembling intelligent remonstration.

Cork4ever

Sanjuro wrote: »

Ah, sweet irony. You complain that 'fair and reasoned debate is not possible.' And yet, a paragraph later you're hurling (grammatically and incorrectly spelled) accusations that every person here is a gun-toting Labour supporter. This also coming from someone who began their first statement with the declaration that they vote based on how daddy votes. Don't come on here complaining about the lack of reasoned argument when you're the one who lacks anything resembling intelligent remonstration.

ahh well if you can't beat them you might as well join them - in the lack of fair and balanced debate that is.... i might as well get all my anger out the same way ye are....

Ye are all gas really, i have been called a mammys boys and stupid but not one of ye has asked me why i vote fianna fail......ye all just saw that i am a fianna fail voter and jumped on me and in boardise kind of way kicked the living sh1t out me. Ye all presumed that i am some kinda of country bunkin down from the mountains

Well shock horror, i am a young married man with 3 children, degree educated (and yes i am a bad speller), have a good Job, enjoy all kinds of sports, i am a committed catholic and i vote fianna fail because the represent my point of view on a broad range of matters, my family has voted fianna fail for generations orginally because of the civl war, but if anyone thinks we still vote because of that is living in the clouds.

Its called democracy folks, people are entitled to vote for the people they want to.....of course some people think they know it all and have the soluton to eveything, i am afraid ye know as much about Govering and Goverment as Robert Gabriel Mugabe

Jamfan

Fair play, Cork4ever. The reasons you vote FF are your own and that's your business.

I would have voted for Liz O'Donnell because she's a MILF, but I don't live in her constituency... would have had to have voted for Mary Harney instead. The PDs didn't get my vote so.

Paddy Samurai

"He said everyone will make some contribution, though those who have the most will pay the most.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0407/budget.htm

"Phewwww!.......lads i was worried there for a while,looks like everthing will be ok.No need to panic....eh..everything will be ok...won't it?.I mean we can trust our politicians can't we?.................NOTTTTTTT!

My name is URL

I predict widespread buttrape with a dashing of doom in the public sector

destroyer

Cork4ever wrote: »

probably labour voters who dont have a clue how to run a country

As opposed to FF who.................

Agamemnon

He said everyone will make some contribution, though those who have the most will pay the most.

Translation: he's lubing his arm all the way up past the elbow in preparation for the ferocious fisting he'll be dishing out. I'm scared.

Ulysses Gaze

Have to say I hope FF are in power for another three years.

The economy will be shot to pieces if they are but you know what.....

To get rid of a virus (in this case FF) you may have to kill the host.......at least temporarily

ScumLord

Cork4ever wrote: »

ahh well if you can't beat them you might as well join them - in the lack of fair and balanced debate that is.... i might as well get all my anger out the same way ye are....

Ye are all gas really, i have been called a mammys boys and stupid but not one of ye has asked me why i vote fianna fail......

You gave us your reason for voting FF in your first post. You vote FF because the rest of your family does.

Your reasoning in that post isn't any better. "because I have 3 kids and I'm Catholic". That's not a reason, it doesn't even have anything to do with FF policy's it's just a statement about yourself. So how do FF help your children? Someone with children really needs to put more effort into voting, I have no kids and can pack up and leave any time I want, it's not as easy for you and your children. For their sake you should put more effort into voting the better man into government.

me-skywalker

Fianna Fail created this country!! Its founding principles have always been the Irish man,... in the past twenty years the principles have always been the same but its been a different kind of man that they have reached out to(the man in a suit with a brown envelope and dreams of prosperity and self-indulgence and an idea to big their own ego)

Rainbows are gay.

ShooterSF

Re: Gambling tax. Suggested but cant happen due to online gambling and their locations.

The way I see our current situation (in a very simplified manner) is:

You work and I give you €100 at the end of the week. You pay €10 income tax. You want to buy something, it costs €70 + €20 VAT. Or you can get it up the north for €65 + €10 VAT. You buy it up the north. The government gets a tenner but misses out on a further twenty.

Nasty change coming.....
Instead this week you work I give you a €100. You pay €20 income tax (Increase :eek:). You buy the same thing again (pretty dull life you live :pac:). This time it's €70 + €10 VAT here (a reduction) or €65 + 10 up the north. The difference is a lot less so you don't bother driving for 2 hours. You buy it here. You get the same product at the end of the week but this time our government picks up €30.

By taking the money at your paypacket and dropping vat the government makes the same but stops you travelling up north.

Ulysses Gaze

in the past twenty years the principles have always been the same but its been a different kind of man that they have reached out to(the man in a suit with a brown envelope and dreams of prosperity and self-indulgence and an idea to big their own ego)

Once TACA was set up by FF in the 1960's the party sold out their values to business men (particularly builders). They were know as the 'Men in the mohair suits'. FF just went and replaced TACA with the tent at Ballybrit in latter years.

Sean Quagmire

Regardless of who we vote for, today we are going to be hit very bad.
You can tell, these shower of idiots never usually warn you when they are going to kane you but now they are screaming in from the mountain tops.

I actualy believed that fat f*cker lenihan he said the last rape budget was temperary. jesus i was wrong. this will be the first of 3 budgets this year i expect.

Darragh29

Keitel wrote: »

People just don't get it. There are huge loyalties in Irish politics.Our Parents Generation are firmly stuck to one party.My own immediate family are staunch FF supporters and have been all their lives.
They would rather see the Country go up in flames than vote FG or Labour.
The reason being that their parents (my grandparents) were all involved in the war of independance (being from Munster) when the political divide at the time meant not speaking to a neighbour or avoiding early mass of a sunday incase you saw your local blueshirt milkman.


FF will ALWAYS have massive support in Ireland no matter what.
Frotunately for me, my Parents provided me with a good education so i can think for myself and decide who i want to vote for based on merit.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. I've a mate who's grandfather is aged 91 and is in hospital with pneumonia, he's been stuck on a trolley for the last 4 days & nights. Do you think he or his family will be voting for FF again???

Darragh29

Lenihan could stand up at 4PM and tell the whole country that we are going to do what they did in Argentina and freeze everyone's bank account and use depositors funds to bail out the banks and shore up the public finances, it doesn't matter what he says or does, people in this country will just bend over.

Cork4ever

ScumLord wrote: »

You gave us your reason for voting FF in your first post. You vote FF because the rest of your family does.

Your reasoning in that post isn't any better. "because I have 3 kids and I'm Catholic". That's not a reason, it doesn't even have anything to do with FF policy's it's just a statement about yourself. So how do FF help your children? Someone with children really needs to put more effort into voting, I have no kids and can pack up and leave any time I want, it's not as easy for you and your children. For their sake you should put more effort into voting the better man into government.

You don't get it:rolleyes:, FF represent my views, i want to vote for them thats it. Labour don't represent my views, FG nearly do but just don't get there, i hate Sinn Fein, i wasn't upset when the PDs imploded and i think the Greens are ok but i wouldn't like them to be in full control. Don't get me wrong i am not a blind follower and i do think they have faults but they represent my views, the others don't.

Can you name a better goverment from the current crop, i don't think you can, i have debated with everyone i know about this and no one has convinced me that anyone else would do better.

And by the way because I have 3 kids and I'm Catholic is a great reason to vote Fianna fail....but if i told you why you would proabably explode

Cork4ever

Darragh29 wrote: »

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. I've a mate who's grandfather is aged 91 and is in hospital with pneumonia, he's been stuck on a trolley for the last 4 days & nights. Do you think he or his family will be voting for FF again???

i am sorry to hear about your granddad, i do hope he feels better very soon.

CountingCrows

Cork4ever wrote: »

And by the way because I have 3 kids and I'm Catholic is a great reason to vote Fianna fail....but if i told you why you would proabably explode

Property developer?

Lollipops23

niether me nor anyone else in my immediate family have ever voted FF. honestly. so it really gets me going when you hear sooo many people bitching about them when someone voted the bstards in!!!

IMHO opinion this mess isn't Cowen's actual fault, that would be the cnut Ahern's. However, Cowen's handling has been a lesson in how to be an utter tool. I'm just so sick of living in a country run by corrupt morons who lack spines. Emmigration seems more and more attractive by the day.

ShooterSF

"represent my views". What a load of bollix unless followed up by being able to run the country. Hell I could share the same views as ya, would you elect me? Oh I'm not gonna do actual work but I do share your goals.

ScumLord

Cork4ever wrote: »

You don't get it:rolleyes:, FF represent my views, i want to vote for them thats it. Labour don't represent my views, FG nearly do but just don't get there, i hate Sinn Fein, i wasn't upset when the PDs imploded and i think the Greens are ok but i wouldn't like them to be in full control. Don't get me wrong i am not a blind follower and i do think they have faults but they represent my views, the others don't.

Can you name a better goverment from the current crop, i don't think you can, i have debated with everyone i know about this and no one has convinced me that anyone else would do better.

And by the way because I have 3 kids and I'm Catholic is a great reason to vote Fianna fail....but if i told you why you would proabably explode

See your not actually giving any valid reasons for voting FF. Your argument is you just like the cut of their jib basically, which is fair enough it's your vote, you can do what you like with it. But it's almost like getting your neighbour to roof your house because you like him, it doesn't matter that his a race car driver that's afraid of heights.

I'm going to be voting SF from now on, they're as far removed from FF and the rest of them as I can get. They're also socialist and I reckon they are willing to put the work in, their not just PR whores like the rest of them. Other than them it's independent. They might not give a flying fig about the country as a whole but at least they'll look out for their own area which is something the major party's candidates won't do. It's probably the only way you can get anything done locally in this country.

asdasd

Ack the whole blaming of Fianna Fail is nonsense. Irish people would have been appalled at any increase in taxes during the boom, and any measures taken to curtail the property market would have had pitch forks at dawn. No Party was suggesting more taxes. And no party demanded that the easy credit be curtailed, say to 3 times income. That would have "priced" people out of the market.

The responsiiibilty for the boom and the collapse lies with a significant chunk of the irish people, and not just the people who voted for Fianna Fail. All property owners had a vested interest in the party continuing as long as possible, and most made their arguments forcibly in pubs, on the radio, and on these fora.

Edit: Full disclosure - asdasd is not a a member of any political party and has never voted for Fianna Fail in his life.

Sam Vimes

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/ididgbkfkf/

Only 14 TDs opt for 10% pay cut
By Mary Regan, Political Reporter

FOR months they lectured us on how we all needed to share the pain of the economic crisis.

But just 14 TDs have opted to practice what they preach by responding to an invitation from the Minister for Finance to take a voluntary pay cut.

And two TDs who took up the offer of gifting 10% of their wages to the state have now asked the Department of Finance if they can get it back.

Following October’s budget, all senior ministers and secretary generals of government departments were forced to take a cut of 10%.

This was left as a voluntary option to all other TDs, senators and senior civil servants.

On the day before what is expected to be one of the hardest budgets in recent memory, the Irish Examiner can reveal that just 14 TDs have taken a cut in their salaries, which start at €100,191.

Just five out of the country’s 60 senators have opted for the pay cut from their salaries of €74,000.

Combined with the average travel expenses and allowances of €58,000 paid to senators, they get more than €130,000 a year for sitting just 92 days.

Just seven senior civil servants, including chairpersons of state boards who were invited to gift some pay to the state, took up the offer.

The Department of Finance would not reveal who has taken the pay cut, saying it was confidential.

However, Fine Gael said about 20 of its TDs have taken pay cuts, mostly in the region of 5% as proposed by their party leader, Enda Kenny, before last October’s budget.

The Green Party has already confirmed that none of its TDs, apart from their two ministers, have opted for a cut.

In the past week, the Department of Finance refused a request by two TDs to pay back the 10% pay cut in light of the introduction of a public service pension levy.

The levy was introduced at the start of February and will cost a TD around €10,000 of their salary.

At what point does a revolution complete with flaming torches and pitchforks become and appropriate do you think?

asdasd

At what point does a revolution complete with flaming torches and pitchforks become and appropriate do you think?

Who rules after the revolution? Crusties?

Sam Vimes

asdasd wrote: »

Who rules after the revolution? Crusties?

I think Michael Moore had the right idea when he ran a ficus for congress and won:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqa_bhwA-1E

thebman

asdasd wrote: »

Ack the whole blaming of Fianna Fail is nonsense. Irish people would have been appalled at any increase in taxes during the boom, and any measures taken to curtail the property market would have had pitch forks at dawn. No Party was suggesting more taxes. And no party demanded that the easy credit be curtailed, say to 3 times income. That would have "priced" people out of the market.

The responsiiibilty for the boom and the collapse lies with a significant chunk of the irish people, and not just the people who voted for Fianna Fail. All property owners had a vested interest in the party continuing as long as possible, and most made their arguments forcibly in pubs, on the radio, and on these fora.

Edit: Full disclosure - asdasd is not a a member of any political party and has never voted for Fianna Fail in his life.

Despite this, they had large surpluses and should have been putting aside money for bad times and significantly reducing our national debt so that it would be easier to borrow come bad times.

I think it is largely the media that hold a lot of the blame TBH for not educating the public on the problems because of the increased ad revenue from the property market. Particularly RTE since they have a public service obligation to cover topics of interest to the people. RTE should have been covering the unsustainable nature of the Irish economy, decreased competitiveness and highlighting the trend of a decline in manufacturing jobs with no jobs coming in to replace them other than from the unsustainable property market.

thelordofcheese

asdasd wrote: »

Who rules after the revolution? Crusties?

i believe this is what's technically know as "step 2: ???????"

K-9

ScumLord wrote: »

their not just PR whores like the rest of them.

LOL SF!

panda100

Got this email today of some facts to consider on budget day.Quite intresting as you can bet the wealthiest in our society will not be hit the hardest today:

28.2 per cent of all the income earned in 2008 was earned by just 6.36 per cent of the population.(Irish Times 5/3/09)

6 per cent of all income earned in 2008 was earned by just 0.22 per cent of the population.(Irish Times 5/3/09)

The richest 1% of the Irish population own 34% of the wealth.

At the very top, the 1,447 people (0.06 per cent of all income earners) who earned more than €1 million each last year, collectively earned 3.4 per cent of all income. In real figure terms, this small cohort of people earned €3.459 billion in 2008, an average of €2.39 million each. (Irish Times 5/3/09)

Of the EU-15, Ireland ranks first in terms of earnings inequality (OECD, Decile Ratios of Gross Earnings, 2008)


In Ireland between 1960-1970 78% of GDP was paid in wages. Betweeen 2001 and 2006 this had fallen to 55%

Between 2005-2008 the richest 1% of the population made €41bn.
Tax shelters cost the state €8bn last year. In 2006 & 2007 private landlords got €1.4bn in tax relief