BSG 2003 S4E20/21 'Daybreak Part 2/Part 3' ***Spoilers***

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

wut? whoever she wants to I guess.

Derek Coleman

Black man and White woman have baby = Mixed race baby.

Mixed race man and White woman have baby = Mixed race baby.

When Cylons and Humans settled on Earth and started having babies the dilution of the Human Race started.

So to some it all up........ We are all descendents of a Cylon and Human cocktail of DNA. (Not in real life tho) :rolleyes:

pug_

Derek Coleman wrote: »

Ha! Surely you can't be serious. How can you get your explanation from the line "It doesn't like that name". Thats some LEAP.

Listen to Baltars speech to Cavil. "God is a force of nature". Sorry, but I'll get all Vulcan on you and believe that the Logical explanation is that its a supreme being and is not just Christianity's GOD. And the word "it" doesn't give God a sexuality so its man or woman or whatever. You see it doesn't offend or exclude anyone.

p.s. Six says "That too is in Gods Plan" ....... maybe its the name PLAN it doesn't like?

Initially I wasn't that serious, but now I think I might be just a bit, I'm curious to see what a vulcan would look like on me.

I wouldn't be so quick to rule it out, they've been banging on about Gods plan for years now, and then they come up with a show called the plan that details the plan the cylons were working under. Coincidence?

pug_

As for the importance of Hara, it's all based on Mitochondrial Eve

her mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is now found in all living humans: every mtDNA in every living person is derived from hers.

So essentially the importance of Hera is that we're all literally descended from her in some way.

Another interesting article in science daily here

The human race was divided into two separate groups within Africa for as much as half of its existence, says a Tel Aviv University mathematician. Climate change, reduction in populations and harsh conditions may have caused and maintained the separation.

Not the main focus of the article, but still interesting none the less in the context of BSG.

ixoy

pug_ wrote: »

So essentially the importance of Hera is that we're all literally descended from her in some way.

But that would mean she had to have lots of kids with lots of different people in order to provide a gene pool from which we descended. Surely it makes more sense for there to be a wider base to choose from, such as the mating between the surviving BSG crew and the "good" Cylons.

pug_

ixoy wrote: »

But that would mean she had to have lots of kids with lots of different people in order to provide a gene pool from which we descended. Surely it makes more sense for there to be a wider base to choose from, such as the mating between the surviving BSG crew and the "good" Cylons.

Read the article...

To find the Mitochondrial Eve of all living humans, one can start by tracing a line from every individual to his/her mother, then continue those lines from each of those mothers to their mothers and so on, effectively tracing a family tree backward in time based purely on mitochondrial lineages. Going back through time these mitochondrial lineages will converge when two or more women have the same mother. The further back in time one goes, the fewer mitochondrial ancestors of living humans there will be. Eventually only one is left, and this one is the most recent common matrilineal ancestor of all humans alive today, i.e. Mitochondrial Eve.

It is possible to draw the same matrilineal tree forward in time by starting with all human female contemporaries of Mitochondrial Eve. Some of these women may have died childless. Others left only male children. For the rest who became mothers with at least one daughter, one can trace a line forward in time connecting them to their daughter(s). As the forward lineages progress in time, more and more lineage lines become extinct, as the last female in a line dies childless or leaves no female children. Eventually, only one single lineage remains, which includes all mothers, and in the next generation, all people, and hence all people alive today.

Also...

Misconception: Mitochrondrial Eve was the only woman alive at that time

Allan Wilson's naming Mitochondrial Eve[3] after Eve of the Genesis creation story has led to some misunderstandings among the general public. A common misconception is that Mitochondrial Eve was the only living human female of her time. Had this been the case, humanity would have long since become extinct due to an extreme example of a population bottleneck.[citation needed]

Indeed, not only were many women alive at the same time as Mitochondrial Eve but many of them have living descendants through their sons. While the mtDNA of these women is gone, their Nuclear genes are present in today's population.[4]

What distinguishes Mitochondrial Eve (and her matrilineal ancestors) from all her female contemporaries is that she has a purely matrilineal line of descent to all humans alive today, whereas all her female contemporaries with descendants alive today have at least one male in every line of descent. Because mitochondrial DNA is only passed through matrilineal descent, all humans alive today have mitochondrial DNA that is traceable back to Mitochondrial Eve.

Furthermore, it can be shown that every female contemporary of Mitochondrial Eve either has no living descendant today or is an ancestor to all living people. Starting with 'the' MRCA at around 3,000 years ago, one can trace all ancestors of the MRCA backward in time. At every ancestral generation, more and more ancestors (via both paternal and maternal lines) of MRCA are found. These ancestors are by definition also common ancestors of all living people. Eventually, there will be a point in past where all humans can be divided into two groups: those who left no descendants today and those who are common ancestors of all living humans today. This point in time is termed the identical ancestors point and is estimated to be between 5,000 and 15,000 years ago. Since Mitochondrial Eve is estimated to have lived more than hundred thousand years before the identical ancestors point, every woman contemporary to her is either not an ancestor of any living people, or a common ancestor of all living people.[1][5]

Essentially every living person alive can trace their maternal lineage back to her. In reality there is no belief that she is literally the first woman to carry this gene just the oldest found to date, but the shows premis is that she was indeed the first woman to have this gene, and therefore we are all descended from her literally.

degrassinoel

i think what the writers were getting at were the numbers, 38,000 humans, and how many skinjobs?

one skinjob and one human managed to have a mixed race child, if they are compatible with each other, as hera is proof of that, then so are the rest of teh skinjobs and the 38k humans, plus, they are or would have been geneticly compatible with the indigeonous population,

lots of ridin'

150,000 years later - baddabing

pug_

degrassinoel wrote: »

i think what the writers were getting at were the numbers, 38,000 humans, and how many skinjobs?

one skinjob and one human managed to have a mixed race child, if they are compatible with each other, as hera is proof of that, then so are the rest of teh skinjobs and the 38k humans, plus, they are or would have been geneticly compatible with the indigeonous population,

lots of ridin'

150,000 years later - baddabing

So why have a shot of Mitochondrial Eve on the front cover of time magazine directly after a shot of Hera if not do draw a direct comparison between the two?

[EDIT] Just watched the end again to be sure, and they actually tell you that she is Mitochondrial Eve, so yup that's what that one means.

redbhoy1888

Totally satisfied by the finale of this fantastic series.Real lump in the throat to see Galactica ending her days and it answered a question I always wondered about ie if Humans found Earth no matter what the era where did the ships go?

Its been mentioned before but what do we all watch now?

Johnny Storm

Great ep IMHO. Maybe a bit over-literal in trying to explain every last thing but what's the point of nitpicking? - it was still great.

My personal favourite bit: Baltar more-or-less redeeming himself with his speech to Cavil and then later when he was overcome as he said "I do know about farming, you know". Ahhhhhh

PS No frakkin' way would I adopt a primitive neolithic lifestyle and let my starship packed with techno-goodies be thrown away.
BTW this was a big missed opportunity to give Pink Floyd's "Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun" a runout

lostexpectation

but the cylon hybrids had artificial parts does not hera?

only the final five are compatiable, do they frak 38,000 humans

noodler

Johnny Storm wrote: »

Great ep IMHO. Maybe a bit over-literal in trying to explain every last thing but what's the point of nitpicking? - it was still great.

My personal favourite bit: Baltar more-or-less redeeming himself with his speech to Cavil and then later when he was overcome as he said "I do know about farming, you know". Ahhhhhh

PS No frakkin' way would I adopt a primitive neolithic lifestyle and let my starship packed with techno-goodies be thrown away.
BTW this was a big missed opportunity to give Pink Floyd's "Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun" a runout

What were the colonials going to do though? The ships don't run on thin air, they also need food and water. Besides they weren't a space faring folk by tradition and a habitable planet was the aim, the endgame so to speak.

Cina

On retrospect it was a very, very good episode and it did wrap everything up. My main gripe is just the 9 episodes before that. They really were very poor at times, and they added some outrageous things to the plot in the last 2 seasons. What gripes me the most is that for the most part, they always seemed to know where they were going with the show, until it came to revealing the final 5 and they realized they hadn't a clue who to pick.

They picked them and had to completely reshape some elements of the plot to accommodate this, and towards the end it got overly complex and I thought they were explaining things rather poorly.

I've no real gripe with the religious aspect, it was always an element of the show, but I think they overdid it towards the end. I really just didn't like the stuff with Kara being this divine intervention or whatever she was, it seemed a bit daft to me.

One thing I found incredible daft was them leaving the ships and medicine supplies and all that behind. I think the only reason this was done was to make it more believable that they could have been our descendants, or whatever.

Anyway, don't get me wrong, BSG was a superb show, I just wish the final episodes had kept it that way, but they didn't for me.

Vokes

Super ending for a super show.

Some purty CGI + old Centurians vs Red Stripes !

Very satisfying & emotional closings to the main players, i.e. Adama, Roslin, Lee, Kara, Baltar - and the flashbacks tied in nicely with those.

Bear McCreary really went all out with the score. And managed to get in the Colonial Anthem there with the Fleet and the Old Girl moving off into the sun(set). Beautiful

My only gripe, was dead-Racetrack managing to fire off nukes just when they needed it. Hmmmm.

Is anyone suprised that dead-Kara and the Head characters weren't explained? Talk about frustrating.

Johnny Storm

On mature relection I actually came up with a thought! :eek:
Remember the primitives that Adama, Baltar et al were observing? Were they the Neanderthals, the race of man who were replaced by the race Homo Sapiens? Which probably means that Homo Sapiens are/were the Galacticos?

stevenmu

I was worried about this, a bad ending would have ruined all that went before it IMO, but it ended very well.

I especially loved the last few minutes showing modern day earth, the robots and head six and baltar talking. It seemed to me like the 'it' they mentioned could be some type of very advanced AI from a much earlier iteration.

I'll be very interested now to see what the concept for "The Plan" will be. The colonials can't really be of much more interest, so I think it must either involve modern day humans or it might follow the centurions who left on the base ship. And obviously with the name it will have to involve "it" somehow.

pug_

Johnny Storm wrote: »

On mature relection I actually came up with a thought! :eek:
Remember the primitives that Adama, Baltar et al were observing? Were they the Neanderthals, the race of man who were replaced by the race Homo Sapiens? Which probably means that Homo Sapiens are/were the Galacticos?

No modern man is not a direct descendant of Neanderthals, it's more a case of Neanderthals being another species that lived alongside man until about 30 odd thousand years ago when they died out.

stevenmu wrote:

I especially loved the last few minutes showing modern day earth, the robots and head six and baltar talking. It seemed to me like the 'it' they mentioned could be some type of very advanced AI from a much earlier iteration.

I'll be very interested now to see what the concept for "The Plan" will be. The colonials can't really be of much more interest, so I think it must either involve modern day humans or it might follow the centurions who left on the base ship. And obviously with the name it will have to involve "it" somehow.

I said the same thing in the other thread and was scoffed at

Goodshape

stevenmu wrote: »

I'll be very interested now to see what the concept for "The Plan" will be.

There's a promo for The Plan somewhere on the SciFi website.

It's about

what the Cylons got upto at the start of the series, directly after the destruction of the twelve colonies

.


About the "God" aspect of the show... in my mind, this is science fiction. If BSG is saying anything about our God, it's that God is just a human concept for things we don't understand, and the universe is full of things we don't understand.

This unseen guiding hand in BSG, apart form being a (little too) convenient get-out for any pesky plot points, is similar to Q or the wormhole creatures in Star Trek.... powerful, mysterious, unexplainable - yes. But not GOD. Just a SCIENCE FICTION interpretation of what we know as God might actually be.

fguihen

Johnny Storm wrote: »

On mature relection I actually came up with a thought! :eek:
Remember the primitives that Adama, Baltar et al were observing? Were they the Neanderthals, the race of man who were replaced by the race Homo Sapiens? Which probably means that Homo Sapiens are/were the Galacticos?

I believe the show meant us to think those primitive humans are indeed the earliest form of homo (tee hee!) sapiens.

I also think that the show meant us to believe that Hera was indeed "Eve" so to speak. not that the other survivors didnt have kids or anything, but that the only ones to evolve and survive and end up being " us" were Hera's decendants.

Dont you think the "God'" characters are almost like scientists. i mean they have tried this out on Cobol, Caprica, Radioactive earth and failed each time, but they are trying now again. Less "divine" and more in the pursuit of a result.

Niska

Great end to the series.

Seeing the ol' girl heading sunwards with the old BSG/Colonial Anthem was quite moving.
Nice wrap up for the characters, and some great action pieces (loved the Raptors jumping from the hangar baying causing it to blow-out was my personal highlight).

Overall was missing someone at the end (150,000 years later) saying "There are those that believe that life here began out there..."

Derek Coleman

fguihen wrote: »

Dont you think the "God'" characters are almost like scientists. i mean they have tried this out on Cobol, Caprica, Radioactive earth and failed each time, but they are trying now again. Less "divine" and more in the pursuit of a result.

Wait a minute. They aren't trying anything out. The "God" characters / Angels are trying to prevent the Human race from destroying themselves. They leave humanity to do what it wants but step in at the last minute to prevent total wipeout. They aren't trying to create a cycle but it keeps happening.

And the theory that "IT" was meant to mean some A.I. theory......... come on man. "It" has to be simply a reference to the idea that its not God/Gods/He/She/Zeus/The Wizard of Oz. Its just a being that exists. Call it whatever you want.

noodler

Although I agree they were being PC there. I really didn't see the need, surely the term god is general enough?

Was there really anything in the show pointing to Christianity other than the fact most of them were white?


I keep laughing when I think of Cavil blowing his brains out. I swear to god, straight out of South Park.

pug_

I don't know. I'm not convinced by the PC thing. Remember this is the last sentence of the last show of the last series. Does anyone really believe that they would leave the last gasp of the show with an attempt to be PC.

If there was a need for political correctness why would they wait through an entire 4 years and a miniseries to introduce it? I don't know that it would even occur to them without outside pressure and I'm not aware that there was any.

Honestly I think it was an attempt to leave the God question open and maybe suggest that there might have been more to their God than meets the eye. I just don't see it being no more significant than appeasing it's religious viewers that weren't even complaining in the first place, it's just at too critical a point in the series for that.

sioda

Pure class what can I say loved every bit.

Caprica and Baltars you can see them too to Cavil's frack it

Great ending to the best sci fi ever now to watch it from season 1 again and listen to the brilliant soundtrack

Was that RDM reading the mag at the end??

What name does god like??

TheIrishGrover

the epilogue. Thought it should have ended with that shot of Hera. Other than that I thought it was fantastic. most importantly, I thought it was a satisfying end. Everything that should have been wrapped up was and everything that should have been left grey was (Starbuck, head 6/baltar etc) and a fantastic path from the miniseries right through to the end (The operahouse merge was nice and neat)

I was SO sure that the "Hour" that Adama was going to give up (What was that anyway?) was that he was going to be analyzed/sci-fi CAT scanned for some kind of AI and that he was gonna be revealed as a cylon at the very end, the FINAL reveal ..... until the final flashback to Tigh and Elen (When Adama's in the bog). Thought they were gonna say something like "So, he's willing to be resurrected?" Or something similar.

LOVED.... LOVED Starbuck/Lee's last scene. Loved it. No explanation wanted.

Oh man, and the Adama flyby/Anders guiding the fleet into the sun? The original music? Loved it. Made me nostalgic for the original (Until I remembered it was ****e)


So, overall 9.999. /10 (Remove the epilogue and it's 10/10)



PS. So Badger finally deserves his fancy hat and airs. Mal would be proud

TheIrishGrover

sioda wrote: »

Pure class what can I say loved every bit.

Caprica and Baltars you can see them too to Cavil's frack it

Great ending to the best sci fi ever now to watch it from season 1 again and listen to the brilliant soundtrack

Was that RDM reading the mag at the end??

What name does god like??

Yeah, Loved those scenes

Must get soundtrack too

Yes

Gerald

Derek Coleman

noodler wrote: »

Was there really anything in the show pointing to Christianity other than the fact most of them were white?

Not really in the show but there was a LAST SUPPER photo shoot between season 3 and 4.

I suppose it could be anything. Only Ron Moore knows so if anyone reads him answering that question then please post it on here. But if I never get an explanation I'm just gonna believe that it was meant to be a little teaser at the end to suggest that GOD is a name that people have given this higher power and maybe it doesn't like the term!!

I think it was meant to do what its doing right now and to get us talking about it. One last little mystery to wreck our bleedin heads.....

TheIrishGrover

Vokes wrote: »

Is anyone suprised that dead-Kara and the Head characters weren't explained? Talk about frustrating.

Personally I loved that they didn't. Just left as-is. There's no rational explanation so don't.




NOW WTF do we watch?

Derek Coleman

If anyone gets any knowledge of when the soundtrack will be released then please tell me that too. I am obsessed with the music of BSG. I have a feeling it will be a June release going by previous years.

Nukem

Gave it 2 stars - just didnt provide much closure and think the ending was a bit rushed. Era sue was a good show but wained at times

barnesd

Wasn't mad about it to be honest. Good, not great. I found I like BSG less and less as it continued, awesome from the beginning to ok at the end for me.

MisterAnarchy

Derek Coleman wrote: »

If anyone gets any knowledge of when the soundtrack will be released then please tell me that too. I am obsessed with the music of BSG. I have a feeling it will be a June release going by previous years.

Yes the soundtrack for this episode was absolutely superb.
It was like a mega mix of the best songs throughout the first 3 series.
Alot of my favourite compositions are from the first and second series ;Passacaglia,Wander My Friends,The Shape of Things to Come,Pegasus,Roslin and Adama,Reuniting the Fleet ,One year Later.
They were all used in the finale .
I dont think a tv show has ever had such a good variety of music .
I often listen to the soundtracks to unwind .
Bear Mc Creary is a very talented guy ,I'm sure its only a matter of time before he gets to score a major motion picture.He deserves it.

Derek Coleman

I think Bear McCreary is a genius.
When we see Hera at the end and 'One Year Later' fades in I was thinking to myself "Ah 150,000 years later will be on the soundtrack".

I don't think you can beat 'Lords of Kobol', 'Baltars Dream', 'Prelude to War' from s.2. 'A Distant sadness', 'Precipice', 'Storming New Caprica', 'All along the Watchtower' from s.3.

Actually there's no point even singling out any tracks because I just play it from start to finish. I go asleep to the music. I play it in my car. I have rewatched the part where Kara is Jumping Galactica to Earth 20+ times because the music is brilliant. Along all the Watchtower music with a piano mix. I am hyper just thinking about it.

If you have the ability to look back on episodes then check out the music as Kara is running thru the hallway to stop Lee from flushing Tigh out of the airlock. That is brilliant.

MisterAnarchy

Derek Coleman wrote: »

If you have the ability to look back on episodes then check out the music as Kara is running thru the hallway to stop Lee from flushing Tigh out of the airlock. That is brilliant.

Or when Galactica jumps into New Caprica orbit and "Storming New Caprica" roars into action.
One of my favourite scenes ever.

Derek Coleman

+1.
Galactica falling towards the ground is one of the coolest things I ever seen on tv or film.
And don't forget the camera pulling away from Galactica getting battered by two baseships and the music fading out. And then the Galactica drums roar and Pegasus arrives in the nick of time. "Thank you LEE"

fugazied

Action was great, a couple of things urked me once they arrived on earth. I 'guess' starbuck disappearing was ok, but kind of ridiculous.

The president dying was done well, if slightly dragged out. The way that everyone seperated on arrival was kind of sad.

My favourite part: when the 4 cylons were getting the ressurection recipe and they found out what the indian cylon did and she got choked. Intense scene!!!

MisterAnarchy

Derek Coleman wrote: »

+1.
Galactica falling towards the ground is one of the coolest things I ever seen on tv or film.
And don't forget the camera pulling away from Galactica getting battered by two baseships and the music fading out. And then the Galactica drums roar and Pegasus arrives in the nick of time. "Thank you LEE"

Yip,Epic.

noodler

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Yip,Epic.

Its funny head 6 went the entire 4 series telling Baltar about the one true god and then they mention in the last lines that it doesn't like the term. Had Head six not met her emplyer until after the series finished?

Music wise I am in a Violence and Variations + Someone to Trust phase at the mo. Looking forward to the cd as much as the box set.

Sad Professor

I was very disappointed tbh. After all the praise the finale script received from the actors, the writing just wasn't that good. There were major lapses of logic throughout. And Rymer's usually solid directing failed spectacularly in a few places.

So everyone decides to go on a suicide mission to save a little girl and they leave Admiral Hoshi and President Lamkin to take care of the fleet. What if everyone as expected had died on that crazy-ass mission, what would have happened to the fleet with all its leaders dead? Hoshi is the f**king communications officer and Lamkin is a lawyer, how are they going to outwit the cylons? The fleet would be f**ked.

And why are they saving Hera again? Moore failed to properly explain everyone's sudden motivation for going on a suicide mission to save her. Oh Kara and the final five say she's their only hope for survival. "Oh okay, why didn't you say so, let's all go and die." And President Apollo just drops everything and hops back in the uniform again.

The Roslin flashbacks scenes were just cringe-inducing. The silk sheets, the actor playing her former student, the bed, the wine, it was like something out of a bad 80's tv movie.

I really loved this season, including the last two episodes, but Moore chickened out and gave us a happy ending. It's a testament to just how dark the show was that he had to resort to deus ex machina or divine intervention to give us that happy ending. The natural and right conclusion to the show was a dark one imo, but I guess Moore just couldn't bring himself to write it.

murrayp4

I thought the music was the Star of the episode

FrostyJack

I'm probably breaking every bit of this charter but I only read the 1st page (too many negative reviews), but I Just watched the finale. All can say is wow. Obviously it's not perfect, but remember Soprano's? Absolutely the best thing I've seen all weekend, that includes the grand slam and liverpool winning 5 0. It has moved into number 1 in all the programmes I watched ( I mean overall, I still haven't watched The Shield's last season), well actually second as you can't beat Rome. I made the piss poor mistake of watching a low qual version of the ending with took away from it. I'm so buying it on Blue-ray!

랴연

Sad Professor wrote: »

I was very disappointed tbh.

Couldn't agree more. The last half of this season has tarnished the good name of BSG forever, especially the finale.

Why the hell are they going to save Hera ? Look at all the trouble caused when Starbuck wanted to go back to the nebula to bring them to Earth for one example but Hera's in trouble and everyone sticks their hands up Star Trek style for the suicide mission.

The action special effects was very good. The story was utter crap and even the acting was dodgy at times.

Compare the assault on the colony to something like the attack on New Caprica or any other attack previously.

The Galactica jumped in and starts getting drilled with fire. = No surprise, no strategy.
The Raptors jump out of the bay and go in from the other side. = meh

And what about the cylons ? Not even a single scene of them acting surprised that the Galactica had turned up. The black lad still carrying out the tests on Hera.

They just jumped in, got the **** kicked out of them, managed to survive it and jumped away. No tactics, no good strategy to overcome the odds, nothing.

Oh and a raptor full of dead people manages to somehow nuke the place. ffs

And of all the stupidity the skin-jobs fighting has to be the worst. Why would they go on an attack when a bullet in the brain = no resurrection. Don't they have centurions who are far better, more efficient killing machines then they are ? It makes no sense whatsoever, especially Cavill in the CIC and then shooting himself ??? For what ? Why ? Theres no reason to do it.

The way the cylons acted after the Chief pulls his hand from the bath was again, stupid. "Its a trick open fire!" cries cylon idiot #1 while hopelessly outnumbered and guaranteed a quick bullet to the head.

The scene with Baltar, 6 and the opera house was ok but lacking.

Then they arrive on Earth2 and Lee 'I should-have-died-a-painful-death-in-season-2' decides they should throw all their stuff away, spread out and live like stone age neanderthals gets the fleets vote of approval ?!

It was a star trek/stargate/childrens ending to a fantastic tv show. All the last episodes of season 4 are bad but the finale really takes the biscuit.

Honestly were all the actors fired who wrote seasons 1-3 and some rejects from Star Trek Voyager signed on ?

I am so disappointed with it and no matter how hard I try I cannot like this ending.

Pure usual American Sci-Fi tripe that ST:Voyager and any number of others have been spewing out for years.

noodler

I am glad I wasn't the only one who was underwhelmed but I can't say I hated it as much as you!

We can only hypothise why everyone decided to go with Adama's guilty conscience and save Hera. I don't think we need any reason for his willingness to go, but she was also one of the few babies born on Galactica throughout the 4/5 years of the show. I also imagine many members of the crew felt guilty over the mutiny and felt they owed Adama.

Volvagia

I loved it, I thought it was a fantastic ending to the series, 10/10!

The one nit pick i do have is why the raptors were able to jump from inside the museum pod on the galactica without tearing the ship in two.

Just a couple of weeks ago, one raptor outside the pod punched a hole in the hull, but this time a few raptors, inside the ship didn't seem to have any effect (unless i missed something)

Vokes

I think that hanger bay buckled / broke in on itself when they jumped.

transylman

Yeah, very disappointing for me too. A number of logical inconsistencies that jar, especially considering the huge efforts they have gone to previously to develop character motivation.

War with Cavil. He captures Hera. Ok, we'll give you resurrection. Fine lets be friends.

We are still at risk of being attacked by the remaining cylons who probably really want to see us dead now, what will we do. Set up on this planet and give up all our technology. Brilliant.

Even the opera house scene did not make much sense. All that buildup and what was the reward, not much.

Really hate the ending.

Talisman

transylman wrote: »

Yeah, very disappointing for me too. A number of logical inconsistencies that jar, especially considering the huge efforts they have gone to previously to develop character motivation.

War with Cavil. He captures Hera. Ok, we'll give you resurrection. Fine lets be friends.

We are still at risk of being attacked by the remaining cylons who probably really want to see us dead now, what will we do. Set up on this planet and give up all our technology. Brilliant.

Even the opera house scene did not make much sense. All that buildup and what was the reward, not much.

Really hate the ending.

Just like to point out that Cavil died - he was the one that orchestrated the boxing of the final five and attack on the colonies. He was the one that wanted to exterminate the human race. Without Cavil the Cylons weren't likely to pursue the fleet - the Centurions already believed in the One God.

As for giving up the technology - it worked, the cycle was broken. Look at the timeline. Approximately 4,000 years prior to the events of the series the Cylons split from the Colonials on Kobol and set off for Earth. 2,000 years later the AI they developed rebelled and wiped them out. The Final Five escaped and head for the colonies to warn them. Arriving there they find that the Colonials have developed AI which also revolted. The Final Five end the war. The cycle was taking place approximately every 2,000 years. The remnants of the Human and Cylon race settle on the new Earth, give up their technology and start from a clean slate. You have to flash forward to 150,000 years later before their descendants begin to develop their own AI.

LoLth

well, the way I saw Hera being the saviour of humanity was: her blood, being both cylon and human shows her to be the "mother of us all" which solidifies the races of earth. Instead of being Indian or European or American her blood proves that we are all just earthlings sort of in the same way that village a hates village b but when threatened they are all proudly from Country C. similarly, if we find extraterrestrials Earth would be united under a common heritage...

as for the comment that the robots at the end were cheesy, fair enough, thats your opinion. I didnt mind it at all. Supporting that with "a search will show others agreeing" dosnt really make your case any stronger imho. a search will also show why Bush should have gotten a third term and the emrits of Intelligent Design over the flawed Darwinism.... . Also, its not necessarily a majority of fans, its a majority of fans that post to internet forums that are searchable... these could still be a minority overall.

anyway, my 2c

랴연

Talisman wrote: »

You have to flash forward to 150,000 years later before their descendants begin to develop their own AI.

So Earth humans are really really slow in the brains department ?

mrak

Goodshape wrote: »

About the "God" aspect of the show... in my mind, this is science fiction. If BSG is saying anything about our God, it's that God is just a human concept for things we don't understand, and the universe is full of things we don't understand.

This unseen guiding hand in BSG, apart form being a (little too) convenient get-out for any pesky plot points, is similar to Q or the wormhole creatures in Star Trek.... powerful, mysterious, unexplainable - yes. But not GOD. Just a SCIENCE FICTION interpretation of what we know as God might actually be.

I agree - when I hear those lads going on about "God" I am thinking "advanced civilization" or even "programmer of the simulation in which all these events are happening". I'm not thinking christian god, but just something that we don't know enough to explain yet. I'm good with the idea.

fguihen wrote: »

I believe the show meant us to think those primitive humans are indeed the earliest form of homo (tee hee!) sapiens.

I also think that the show meant us to believe that Hera was indeed "Eve" so to speak. not that the other survivors didnt have kids or anything, but that the only ones to evolve and survive and end up being " us" were Hera's decendants.

Didn't they mention something about the humans being 100% compatible and they were wondering about the odds of that..? Neanderthal's weren't compatible with humans, so I guess the ending does seem to indicate that the colonists went on to eventually replace the original humans on earth and are our ancestors (mainly from the Hera who must have bred like a good-thing).