BSG 2003 S4E20/21 'Daybreak Part 2/Part 3' ***Spoilers***

MisterAnarchy

So this is it the final episode ever

Synopsis:
Admiral Adama leads a group of volunteers aboard the Galactica into a dangerous mission to rescue Hera. With the decrepit condition of the ship, Adama understands that this will likely be the final mission of the Galactica.

As the personnel face possible death in the battle, they recall key moments from their time on Caprica before the Cylon holocaust

MisterAnarchy

Just set up the poll,surprised nobody else did it yet .:p
Anyway absolutely mindblowing episode 10/10.

Overheal

Do we really need a new thread every 2 hours about this?

Mena

Overheal wrote: »

Do we really need a new thread every 2 hours about this?

Yes we do, it was that good

Leprachaun

Overheal wrote: »

Do we really need a new thread every 2 hours about this?

Yep. :pac:

It's not like there's going to be many threads in here from now on anyway.

Anyway as I said in the other thread,it was great but the ending dragged on a bit. I'll watch it again today (sober this time :P) in better quality and then I'll see if it was an 8 or a 9 for me.

Metacortex

10/10

Amazing. I loved it, totally satisified

MisterAnarchy

Overheal wrote: »

Do we really need a new thread every 2 hours about this?

This one has a poll though.:D

tvnutz

Just get a mod to put a poll in the first thread where most people have posted.

Pepe LeFrits

Great episode, although I am left feeling slightly underwhelmed by it all the same.

Anyone else feel a bit sad watching the SFX of Galactica 'breaking her back'? I was willing the old girl to hold it together. I thought she was going to lose her flight pods at the very least!

OmegaRed

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Great episode, although I am left feeling slightly underwhelmed by it all the same.

Anyone else feel a bit sad watching the SFX of Galactica 'breaking her back'? I was willing the old girl to hold it together. I thought she was going to lose her flight pods at the very least!

I kinda feel overwhelmed by the whole thing. I always get way to wrapped up in series that I watch but this is different as its caught me on such a spiritual level. I myself am very spiritual and putting things down to the faith of God is a good answer for me. saying that, I do feel the Kara story should have been better played out.

How is everyone else feeling after the end of one of the best shows in TV history (IMHO)?

OmegaRed

Who gave it 1 star and why?

Tazzle

Underwhelmed. Completely. If that raptor at the end had just nuked them all at the cylon colony it would have been more satisfying.

Goodshape

Almost perfect.

5/5

lostexpectation

can we have one fracking thread

Overheal

Thats an americanism

Anyway the poll is bogus, there is no option for 6 stars, or over 9000 stars.

karen3212

Overheal wrote: »

Thats an americanism

More importantly, which part of america is it from?:P

Cina

I guess I'm the only one who didn't really like it.

Over the last 2 seasons the plot has delved in to something almost impossible to explain. They explained it, but in a ridiculous manner.

Disappointed.

Overheal

Yeah, but in fairness, where else could they have gone with the show? Oh look, we found earth! You win! Would have been kinda lame. I like the way it was finished very much. And this is an Atheist.

noodler

I was definetely underwhelmed but I wouldn't go as far as to say I didn't like it.

It was too much of a goody-goody ending. I actually think it would have been more meaningful if Cavil or somebody had nuked the planet they were on but that wasn't really possible because it was made quite clear it was our earth.

Are we all in agreement that Kara was only an angel after she died? Why was her mother going on at her about a special destiny then? Hell how did Leoben know in season 1? (Thats probably a cheap shot though because much was undecided back then). It almost seems like overkilll having two angels in characters minds and then a physical angel to boot just to guide humanity.

I never expected the Tory/Chief/Cally storyline would be so important. I also found it unbelievable that Cavil was so easily persuaded by Baltar's ramblings (Was he seeing angels too?).

I thought it was absolutely hilarious when Cavil killed himself-it was like something out of South Park if I am honest! Also did anyone think the centurions kept going down way too easy? I mean in season 2 we established only explosive rounds have any effect yet machine gun bullets were absolutely ripping them apart on the Colony (except of course for the ones surrounding Cavil-they were invincible again!).

The Opera House bit was well worked in alright-also the fact it was actually head baltar and head six in the president and Athena's visions. Come to think of it, why was Athena having visions? I think it was established that all the skinjobs had the Opera House vision though.

It was genuinely sad when it came to Adama and Roslin. Easily the most emotive part of the episode for me.

I would have totally done Starbuck on the table by the way!

Sad its over and I really need a second watch of that.

EDIT: Oh and the robots and the end was completely over the top in my opinion and I also wondered about the 'it doesn't like being called god'. If he wasn't one then why would they hold him in such reference that he would be an 'it'? Surely he would just be our boss....Joe or something!

Derek Coleman

Negative comments are oblivious to me because that was the best thing I have ever seen. Anything negative said about that ending is just wrong.

Every question has been answered. A "GOD" was helping shape these events.

Regarding the Kara Thrace ending...... I'm completely fine with it. She was dead. She knew she was dead. We seen her die, Lee seen her die. She put her photo on the dead people wall. She found her own body. She was ressurrected by GOD to fulfill her destiny. Anders said "See you on the other side" before he died, which in retrospect means he was about to join her in the afterlife. There's nothing wrong with that ending. They actually spelt it out for us but we didn't listen. I see no need for any other explanation.
Baltar said to Cavil "People see Angels of GOD. Loved ones have died and ressurrected."

noodler

Derek Coleman wrote: »

Negative comments are oblivious to me because that was the best thing I have ever seen. Anything negative said about that ending is just wrong.

Every question has been answered. A "GOD" was helping shape these events.

Regarding the Kara Thrace ending...... I'm completely fine with it. She was dead. She knew she was dead. We seen her die, Lee seen her die. She put her photo on the dead people wall. She found her own body. She was ressurrected by GOD to fulfill her destiny. Anders said "See you on the other side" before he died, which in retrospect means he was about to join her in the afterlife. There's nothing wrong with that ending. They actually spelt it out for us but we didn't listen. I see no need for any other explanation.
Baltar said to Cavil "People see Angels of GOD. Loved ones have died and ressurrected."

Come on now, don't be so boring. Message boards are for discussion!

Since your the only other person up lets argue about some of the stuff in my post. Bear in mind I JUSt saw it though. Lets start with the Kara Thrace destiny predictions by her mother and Leoben well before she died.

Were you the one saying the 'New Caprica: Before the Fall: in part one was a misleader for the people championing a Second Earth?

Derek Coleman

Noodler - I think the line "It doesn't like that name" is to make sure that we don't think of it as any single religion. Maybe they just want to generalise it so that we don't just assume its Christianity's GOD. Its a higher power, no need to pigeon hole it and offend anyone!! I don't know.

Derek Coleman

I'm having a hard time accepting its over, I cant argue with anyone right now I'll just end up crying.

I mentioned before that I thought there was a second Earth but had no idea because who the hell knew!! I just can't believe you weren't completely satisfied by that. :eek: Its like I dont even know who you are anymore!

Edit: No i didnt post that about New Caprica being the second Earth but I did think it! Ha.

And the Kara Thrace thing about her having a destiny....... Well you just have to say that her mother and Leoben were told by GOD. HA, its that simple.

noodler

I think that sounds about right about the god line-just a few of us looking for something that isn't there.

I guess it was too formulaic? I don't think the near year long wait between 4.0 and 4.5 helped either. We had too much time to discuss the possibilities. Nothing in the episode surprised me. I mean I had a smile when we saw earth but surprised? Can't say that I was.

In the end the whole thing could arguably be boiled down to the main theme in Terminator.

It will be interesting to see if Head Baltar makes an appearance in the plan. His role could have done with a little fleshing out. The more I think of it actually it seems the whole Tigh-Caprica thing was an absolutely pointless exercise!

It is a little sad they all decided to die away from each other though-nice way to explain why there are no ship parts left by our era was to just stick em in the sun alright! I honestly thought Kara was going to go into the sun with Anders.

Did she say "I don't love you"?

God Im just typing lines and lines of observations and questions without any structure now! It was a long two hours.

Derek Coleman

No she tells him she loves him. Which was nice cause she gave him a lotta **** when he wasn't a goldfish/cylon and was a human/cylon. I just think that this show has had so much doom and gloom that they deserved a good ending and we didn't need any big twists or surprises just for the sake of it.

I am a stubborn Atheist. I would go as far as to say that I hate religion, but the religious theme of this show is brilliant to me. I don't have to believe in a god..... I just have to believe that they do!!

And seriously man I was grinning like an idiot when you could see Africa from space.

I did wonder why we had to see Roslins flashback or anyones flashback because only Anders one made sense because he couldn't say anything while he was having a bath so I think his was PERFECTLY done.
But I'm very forgiving when it comes to tv shows that peek my interest. I'll let a lot slide under the radar because I know that picking holes in it only hinders my enjoyment so I'm only hurting myself!!

Derek Coleman

The scene where Adama has buried Laura Roslin and is telling her about where he will build the house is heart breaking.
But more importantly this is probably what was meant by the leader not living to enter the new land (or in this case her home with Bill.)

Overheal

noodler wrote: »

EDIT: Oh and the robots and the end was completely over the top in my opinion and I also wondered about the 'it doesn't like being called god'. If he wasn't one then why would they hold him in such reference that he would be an 'it'? Surely he would just be our boss....Joe or something!

The last 3 minutes are what sells the whole show for me though. Are you kidding? What better way to land the message home. Ron Moore was spot on.

As for "It" - you assume that "God" is a person or being.

MisterAnarchy

OmegaRed wrote: »

How is everyone else feeling after the end of one of the best shows in TV history (IMHO)?

I concur.I dont think I've ever been so sad at the finish of a series.
I'll really miss this show,it went out with a bang.

noodler

Overheal wrote: »

The last 3 minutes are what sells the whole show for me though. Are you kidding? What better way to land the message home. Ron Moore was spot on.

As for "It" - you assume that "God" is a person or being.

The robots at the end were horrible and ruined a serious conclusion for me. We hardly needed the terminator message rammed home anymore did we?

Anyway, a quick search shows plenty of people found the last robot scenes far too cheesy.


BTW

And OH MY GOD I am sorry if this has been mentioned before but I am just looking at the Last Supper Picture and there is a challice beside Tigh where theres also an empty space.

How obvious is it that Ellen is the fifth now?

noodler

Derek Coleman wrote: »

No she tells him she loves him. Which was nice cause she gave him a lotta **** when he wasn't a goldfish/cylon and was a human/cylon. I just think that this show has had so much doom and gloom that they deserved a good ending and we didn't need any big twists or surprises just for the sake of it.

I am a stubborn Atheist. I would go as far as to say that I hate religion, but the religious theme of this show is brilliant to me. I don't have to believe in a god..... I just have to believe that they do!!

And seriously man I was grinning like an idiot when you could see Africa from space.

I did wonder why we had to see Roslins flashback or anyones flashback because only Anders one made sense because he couldn't say anything while he was having a bath so I think his was PERFECTLY done.
But I'm very forgiving when it comes to tv shows that peek my interest. I'll let a lot slide under the radar because I know that picking holes in it only hinders my enjoyment so I'm only hurting myself!!

Not very religious myself but I can't hate it when I see all the good it does. My grandparents for instance, and I am sure millions of others from that generation, the whole religious theme in Ireland especially entrenched the idea of family and community which isn't really a bad thing in my book.


I know you don't want to pick holes in what you love but, at the same time, if all we did was big up the show then you wouldn't really need a message board.

Roslin was still the dieing leader for me, not the ship. Agreed.

quigo

Happy and Sad that the show has finally ended. Favourite alongside the wire for all time best programme. I can only wish that the other programmes that I watch finish with such definite finality.

Was initially disappointed that they didn't kill of a few characters in a glorious finale. Felt similar in ways to LOR that most of the main characters lived.

I have to say that I feel for the Adama lads.... they are seriously along the poor chaps, can't say that they deserve it after all they did.

Really enjoyed the scene near the end with the Adama's, Coddle, Tigh and Balthar when they were people watching. Very David Attenborough/National Geographic. Also when Mr Hoshi became Admiral and an Irishman the president ;-)

Upon balance an absolutely wonderful series in so many different ways. Excellent characters plot lines and twists. Delighted that I followed it from beginning to start. In saying that can't say I have any interest in watching caprica. Feel that BSG is best left alone now. ALONE.

Thought the end of the episode was kinda pessimistic despite what 6 had to say. Personally would have preferred had the show ended with the general scattering. In saying that it did give me the whole Oh this was actually based in the past shock, so upon balance its worth it.

I do hope that in the fullness of time that this show does get the reward that it truly deserves.

lostexpectation

it seems to me the chief was one top 3 actors in them finding earth, he cared so much for human he shot tory which ended up them not a giving the cylons resurrection and

..hang on thats irrelevant it all came down to a actually dead women nuking the cylon base.????

Overheal

noodler wrote: »

The robots at the end were horrible and ruined a serious conclusion for me. We hardly needed the terminator message rammed home anymore did we?

Anyway, a quick search shows plenty of people found the last robot scenes far too cheesy.

Oh well, if the internet says it, then I retract my opinion and also find it cheesy :rolleyes:

It wasn't just about the robots it had a lot to say about human nature.

On the robots note, last week marked a major milestone for the coming doom when a completely autonomous UAV made a human kill.

http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25656&Itemid=128

so clearly despite Terminator being a shiny warning to humanity since the 80s, we still aren't listening. So I agree with Moore on the reiteration of the point.

sadista

Best line of the episode:

'Hey I dont mean to rush you but you are keeping two civilisations waiting!'

As much as I hate Cavill he's a bit of a legend sometimes!

There were so many points at which I thought it was finished but it justkept going, not necessarily a bad thing though. Loved every minute of it! It was completely satisfying!:D

fguihen

Very awesome.

I am truly happy they finished it off, with no option to cash in with more episodes at a later date. its a rare quality in a tv show nowdays, not to betray the story and just make tons of extra episodes as there is some demand there (xfiles, lost,prisonbreak, im looking in your direction.....).

Although i think it could have been played out differently giving more concrete answers, i think it was done well. it was a very daring ending to trust a lot of the mysteries to "devine intervention", and i thought after seeing that there would be a huge amount of unsatisfied people, but it seems as though the majority of fans loved it, be they religious, believers in a higher power or not.

They could have taken the easy way out with time travel or other such nonsense but they went with their gut. excellent work.

The ending is so tragic and hopeful at the same time. the pretty much all go their seperate ways, to die in peace ( tyroll, Adama et al). after searching so long, you would think they would be happy, but instead they just want solitude and peace and alone time. i really felt for tyroll and Adama.

i have a few questions though:

1. why did Lee just so easily accept Kara just "vanished" due to divine intervention? its not like him. also, why did he just let his dad disappear forever? i guess it was to give it a tragic ending, which it most certainly did.

2. they say the child was the missing link, and dna from her skelliton is found in all of us today. but what about the rest of the colony? their dna is slightly different from Hera's, but are we to assume they just didnt mate with any natives, or they didnt have any offspring? i mean there were 30-40 thousand survivors. surely some of their colonies around the globe thrived and this would give huge genetic varation, visible even today. or is this actualy visible in our genes today ( is european or asian genome subtly different from that derived in africa, or did we all originate in africa)? just wondering how it ties in with reality.

3. I dont see the point of the visions anymore. that opera house vision didnt make a whole lot of sense now that we see all they had to do was get hera back, so she could eventually propogate with primitive earthlings.



Im just nitpicking , and i really thought it was an awesome ending to an awesome series, one il visit time and time again on dvd.

pug_

On the whole 'it doesn't like to be called God' thing. Maybe they were hinting that the god was really some kind of uber cylon? Could be that we're all part of some matrix style virtual reality explaining how events are so easily controlled. Or we're all descended from a much much older cylon race and some of the genetic markers allows us to see angels at 'gods' will? Or something else along those lines.

pug_

fguihen wrote: »

1. why did Lee just so easily accept Kara just "vanished" due to divine intervention? its not like him. also, why did he just let his dad disappear forever? i guess it was to give it a tragic ending, which it most certainly did.

In fairness what's he supposed to do when he's standing in the middle of a field with no one else around and she just disappears? it's not like she was playing hide and seek. I was wondering about letting Adama go myself, but I guess some things you just have to accept.

2. they say the child was the missing link, and dna from her skelliton is found in all of us today. but what about the rest of the colony? their dna is slightly different from Hera's, but are we to assume they just didnt mate with any natives, or they didnt have any offspring? i mean there were 30-40 thousand survivors. surely some of their colonies around the globe thrived and this would give huge genetic varation, visible even today. or is this actualy visible in our genes today ( is european or asian genome subtly different from that derived in africa, or did we all originate in africa)? just wondering how it ties in with reality.

Tbh I had assumed exactly that, that the colonies didn't mate so well with the natives and probably events happened to make the other colonies die off in a generation or two. The eve they were talking about is real. Apparently all human dna can be traced back to her or something, so according to the storyline we're all really descended from Hera not any of the humans from the colonies. In fairness they all came from a very technological background and possibly weren't too well adapted to living off the land, so it's not that hard to believe they died off pretty quickly. Or maybe their immune systems weren't able to cope with some local bug that didn't affect Hera. I don't know loads of possible answers.

3. I dont see the point of the visions anymore. that opera house vision didnt make a whole lot of sense now that we see all they had to do was get hera back, so she could eventually propogate with primitive earthlings.

Ah, but what would have happened if things didn't pan out exactly as they did, one small difference to that whole thing could have seen Hera wandering down a different corridor or Caprica and Baltar arriving 10 seconds too late and things would have ended very differently. The way I see it the sequence of events had to follow one path and one path only, any deviation would have ended in disaster which is why it was drummed into them what to do via the visions.

Derek Coleman

pug_ wrote: »

On the whole 'it doesn't like to be called God' thing. Maybe they were hinting that the god was really some kind of uber cylon? Could be that we're all part of some matrix style virtual reality explaining how events are so easily controlled. Or we're all descended from a much much older cylon race and some of the genetic markers allows us to see angels at 'gods' will? Or something else along those lines.

Ehhh NO.

pug_

Ehh why not then? :P

[EDIT] OK maybe I over elaborated a little, but when they said 'it' it occurred to me that they might have been referring to a cylon or some form of machine as opposed to some form of ethereal divinity.

Derek Coleman

Ha! Surely you can't be serious. How can you get your explanation from the line "It doesn't like that name". Thats some LEAP.

Listen to Baltars speech to Cavil. "God is a force of nature". Sorry, but I'll get all Vulcan on you and believe that the Logical explanation is that its a supreme being and is not just Christianity's GOD. And the word "it" doesn't give God a sexuality so its man or woman or whatever. You see it doesn't offend or exclude anyone.

p.s. Six says "That too is in Gods Plan" ....... maybe its the name PLAN it doesn't like?

degrassinoel

dont call me shirley!

Derek Coleman

Thats un believeable because I thought of that when I wrote it. ha. LMAO. Brilliant Noel.

ixoy

Really liked it and thought it was pretty as much good and conclusive as could be expected - nice farewells to the characters, an end to the mission, nods to the series, and of course big frakking battles.

Couple of little quibbles:

1) The Opera House reveal was done well... but I just have a niggling feeling that this was never the plan all along. It felt that the dream didn't actually play an important part, but rather a running symbolism to their predicament and that things would still have played out the same without it.

2) As symbolic as incinerating the fleet was, did Adama not think that the refugees would appreciate things like heat and medicine? Did he bother to consult first or just fire them onto Earth where they, used to civilisation, would struggle to probably even start a fire, never mind live out their lives?

3) If Hera is the mother of us all, then how did she spawn? Did she have lots of babies? Or were there more matings between humans and cylons? If so why was Hera really that important once on earth?

noodler

Overheal wrote: »

Oh well, if the internet says it, then I retract my opinion and also find it cheesy :rolleyes:

It wasn't just about the robots it had a lot to say about human nature.

On the robots note, last week marked a major milestone for the coming doom when a completely autonomous UAV made a human kill.

http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25656&Itemid=128

so clearly despite Terminator being a shiny warning to humanity since the 80s, we still aren't listening. So I agree with Moore on the reiteration of the point.

You don't have to retract it but just to show that despite your "Are you kidding me" it seems the majority of fans thought it was way over the top. They would have been more fitting at the end of a real documentary on the perils of AI by someone like Micheal Moore.

Here for example. http://www.bsgcast.com/bsgcast-422-daybreak-part-2/#comments

Rollie Eyes are the sign of a diseased mind by the way.

I thought Adama was going to kill himself, was very surprised he wanted to live away from everyone else. I think we are overreacting to the Hera finding. There must have been millions of people around back then and we only ever find a handful of skeletal remains so the whole destiny is that out of the thousands (only) of colonials/Cylons all we find is Hera. I am still unsure if her adding to the gene pool was such a salvation? Maybe she was the only oen that could mate with the locals?

Now we don't know who killed Roslin's sistsers, I initially thought Lee but of course Adama and Tigh were absolutely locked as well.

The universal acclaim for Tory's death is quite someting!

Derek Coleman

I have no knowledge of chemistry or whatever you need to make a point like this but regarding Hera......

She is the product of a Human and a cylon having a baby. 38,000 Humans from the colony settled on Earth but you are forgetting that the 2's , 6's, and 8's also settled on Earth. So if any of them had children with a human then that child would be similar to Hera.

So........ we are all spawned from half human/ half cylon children from 150,000 years ago.

It makes sense to me. :rolleyes:

noodler

No I guess that is the most practical solution Derek. Of course it means the Hera was only important symbolically though. Could Cavil not just have used Ellen to make a baby? (Like Final Five Tight did with Caprica?) or would the whole 'only conceive in love' bull**** rear its head again.

Its the catch 22. If Hera was such a small part of the gene pool then how did she save humanity bar saving their dna? Whilst if the other Cylons and humand could produce Heras then it diminished her importance somewhat.

Sherifu

Enjoyable final episode.

Not perfect but pretty good.

Cavil shooting himself and Chief killing Tory were what I really enjoyed.

DeVore

I dont understand why Hera is the saviour of humanity... did we lose the ability to procreate all of a sudden?

I thought the pacing was poor but the endings were ok (Tory's ending was very well done and I'm glad she got hers in the end, never liked her).

There were some great moments but I was a bit dissappointed with Kara's story, she deserved a stronger ending. Over-sentimentality with the Pres made it seem a bit too sugary for me but I think they did a fine job over all and rounded out the season well.

DeV.

Derek Coleman

Hmmmmm......

I'm trying to put out fires all over this forum

Ok I'll believe that Hera is the saviour of the human race because her blood saved Roslin who led them to Earth.

Or, Hera is the saviour because without her Starbuck would not have had the drawing/co-ordinates.

But I seriously believe that the importance of Hera to the human race is not because she personally done something. Its more like the importance of her half human/cylon DNA surviving on a planet which they didn't evolve from.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

as I see it, hera saved humanity because God/whateverhisnameis had planned for her to be the starting point of the new human race as our mitochondrial eve and this fits in with kara thrace being the harbinger of death. She did lead the human race to it's end, we are descended from hera not from any of the civilian fleet or the battlestar crew. Their lines and the old human race are completely wiped out now and only heras new human populates the planet, a mix of cylon and human. It's not that the fleet lost the ability to ****, it's just that over time their descendants didn't make it and god either knew this or planned this so that heras new human could arive without the baggage of the past cycle(s).

lostexpectation

but hera is part human by cylon, so what does that mean for them on earth, so who does hera frack?