TII Motorway Service Areas (MSA) Progress Thread

Ernest

D Trent wrote: »

There's one at the Cashel junction, a Topaz and a McDonalds

I have seen it - one of those filling stations with a bit of a shop and a takeaway. Better than nothing but not a proper on-line motorway service station of the kind that the NRA envisaged - like the Applegreen ones on each side of the the M1 motorway each of which has proper traffic flow lanes, adequate parking, a filling station, toilets, showers, three restaurants etc.

spacetweek

D Trent wrote: »

Where is/was the Athlone MSA supposed to be?

The bypass, I think.

veryangryman

spacetweek wrote: »

The bypass, I think.

Actually between Exit 8 and 7 (The road to Moate)

I guess they decided not to what with Kilmartins having an excellent offer literally seconds down the road.

Kilmartins by the way must have some monopoly. Why on earth does the N62 exit have to swing past them when the Birr Turn is 1Km down the road.

fabsoul

12 more to come someday

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/motoring/plan-for-dozen-motorway-service-areas-revealed-30284555.html

tylercheribini

Good progress being made on N11 Gorey service area.

flazio

veryangryman wrote: »

Actually between Exit 8 and 7 (The road to Moate)

I guess they decided not to what with Kilmartins having an excellent offer literally seconds down the road.

Kilmartins by the way must have some monopoly. Why on earth does the N62 exit have to swing past them when the Birr Turn is 1Km down the road.

The Birr turn has always been there. I presume it worked out cheaper to incorporate the last of the Athlone Bypass as an exit rather then build a new exit from scratch, besides, most heavy vehicles heading westbound to Birr would peel off in Kilbeggan and follow the N52 through Tullamore.
Finally Kilmartins don't have a complete monopoly, the Applegreen service station is about 3 exits down the bypass.

spacetweek

fabsoul wrote: »

12 more to come someday

It's not totally clear from the article whether they mean 12 more or 12 in total, including the ones already done.

I always get a bit irked when something is described as being done due to EU rules - as if the only reason to have rest areas on motorways was because of EU rules, and not cause you need them anyway.

serfboard

spacetweek wrote: »

I always get a bit irked when something is described as being done due to EU rules - as if the only reason to have rest areas on motorways was because of EU rules, and not cause you need them anyway.

I read it as the Paul Melia correctly (IMO) inferring that they wouldn't get done here if it wasn't for EU rules.

We know that to be true in a lot of other aspects of Irish life ...

marmurr1916

spacetweek wrote: »

It's not totally clear from the article whether they mean 12 more or 12 in total, including the ones already done.

I always get a bit irked when something is described as being done due to EU rules - as if the only reason to have rest areas on motorways was because of EU rules, and not cause you need them anyway.

The original plan was for 12 online MSAs in total. 3 are operational, 2 under construction, 1 scrapped, leaving another 6 to begin construction.

Although I can't really see the NRA building at least 2 of these - the planned online MSA at Cashel on the M8 and the planned MSA at the Athlone bypass.

Neither of these are really necessary since there are privately-built services adjacent to exits at these locations.

The NRA is going to publish a revised MSA policy later this year.

Hopefully it'll take into account privately-built MSAs (existing, under construction and planned) adjacent to motorway junctions when deciding on the location of any possible future online MSAs.

loyatemu

plenty of photos of the new Applegreen site at Cullenmore on the M11 here

(its not an NRA SA but its right on the motorway and looks like its going to have the same range of facilities)

tylercheribini

does anyone know are these 24 hour opening?

L1011

All NRA ones will have fuel toilets and hot drinks 24 hour, beyond that maybe nothing else. The private ones so far all have been but that is up to the operator.

Ernest

MYOB wrote: »

All NRA ones will have fuel toilets and hot drinks 24 hour, beyond that maybe nothing else. The private ones so far all have been but that is up to the operator.

See, thats the problem. No standards. Leaving it up to the operator to do as he/she likes.

L1011

Ernest wrote: »

See, thats the problem. No standards. Leaving it up to the operator to do as he/she likes.

They're 100% private, how do you expect the NRA to impose standards on them?

jd

MYOB wrote: »

They're 100% private, how do you expect the NRA to impose standards on them?

It can only be done as part of the planning conditions. I presume the NRA could refuse to put signs up for unofficial service areas that are not up to standard (or remove such signage if standards slip)

L1011

jd wrote: »

It can only be done as part of the planning conditions. I presume the NRA could refuse to put signs up for unofficial service areas that are not up to standard (or remove such signage if standards slip)

Currently the only unofficial services with what appears to be official signage that I'm aware of is Mayfield - all the others are trucks in field affairs.

Councils are not known for enforcing sound planning here...

Chris_5339762

The Mayfield one is an example of how a privately run service station should be.

Cashel is an example of when it doesn't work.


And I still think building online services where J8 of the M50 should have been would be a massive, massive cash cow for the NRA/government.

antoobrien

The NRA have announced a policy review on how MSAs will be delivered. Details on the website: http://www.nra.ie/press-releases/nra-service-areas-on-the-/index.xml

pat13wx

Parking at the Cashel McDonald's + Service station is horrendous when it's any-ways busy, which is most of the time. Does anyone know when they plan to extend the parking areas? They is land there that can be used for that.

L1011

"The Authority has no plans currently to provide service areas on single carriageway roads. The needs
of road users along these routes are met by local services in towns and villages. "

While this is correct for the bulk of routes, if the N4 and N25 in particular aren't upgraded to DC they need to reconsider something in this area

The N4 has huge amounts of 1990s/2000s offline wide SC and if the remaining bypasses are patched in using T2DC there really won't be much in the way of services - as it stands there's a station at Mullingar (1 each side) and 2 in Ballinalack online between the M4 and Longford, where there's one on the bypass. Then there's another few in Carrick-on-shannon before one in Castlebaldwin - which will be bypassed soon-ish; and then its Colooney after that.

The N25 has similar lengthy sections of upgraded offline single.

Seperately interesting is the motorway network map of built/expected - no M20 but a motorway to Foynes! Also has the entire GCOB as motorway.

spacetweek

MYOB wrote: »

Seperately interesting is the motorway network map of built/expected - no M20 but a motorway to Foynes! Also has the entire GCOB as motorway.

It's a map of motorways or HQDC. Foynes and the GCOB will be HQDC.
However HQDC is still way overspecced for Foynes!

spacetweek

We have parking areas on motorways in Ireland. These should not exist and are only there because we planned most of them as duallers.
I think that anywhere a new service area opens, all the parking areas along that stretch of road should be closed and returned to nature.
The aim should eventually be to remove all of them as they're not safe and their lack of facilities results in people using them as toilets amongst other things.

Edit: Just noticed that page 18 of the doc (PDF p.21) covers this off. The NRA is indeed planning on closing these, but they won't physically be removed. Also I never knew that it isn't lawful to exit your vehicle when you're parked in one.

Chris_5339762

I guess they have to say that legally even though they know full well everyone does. They are usually disgusting... full of rubbish (as bins can't legally be provided) and there is a smell of piss everywhere.

Looks like the service station network will be quite comprehensive. The M8 really does need one halfway down, hopefully that will be next on the list.

munchkin_utd

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I guess they have to say that legally even though they know full well everyone does. They are usually disgusting... full of rubbish (as bins can't legally be provided) and there is a smell of piss everywhere.

Looks like the service station network will be quite comprehensive. The M8 really does need one halfway down, hopefully that will be next on the list.

There's 3 stations or rest stops pencilled in between cork and the m7 interchange

What's new (to me anhow) in that document is the plans for the odd basic reststop with just parking and toilets in places where a full station with restaurant can't be justified.

There's also mention that existing offline services which fulfil the required standard will be taken into consideration when planning online services, but they would have to be up to the standard especially regarding provisions for hgv traffic, and apparently commit to providing secure truck parking or other things required by law for online services as part of the road network management.

So presumably that'd mean that offline unofficial places like mayfield m7 or ashford m11 could eventually be considered and signed as part of the official provision, and dangerous (I.e. hgv and car traffic mixing without any thought or planning) substandard places like cashel would be ignored - and a proper alternative provided online.
Signage will be dealt with in a further document, but there's enough hints there to see that they do intend getting their act into gear.

marmurr1916

MYOB wrote: »

They're 100% private, how do you expect the NRA to impose standards on them?

The NRA could sign contracts with them. The private offline MSA operators agree to meet minimum agreed standards in return for extensive signposting of their 'NRA Officially Approved Motorway Service Area'. Failure to meet the standards would result in fines, and eventually loss of approval and removal of signposting. Approval etc would only be reinstated on proof of any changes required to meet the standards being implemented.

munchkin_utd

marmurr1916 wrote: »

The NRA could sign contracts with them. The private offline MSA operators agree to meet minimum agreed standards in return for extensive signposting of their 'NRA Officially Approved Motorway Service Area'. Failure to meet the standards would result in fines, and eventually loss of approval and removal of signposting. Approval etc would only be reinstated on proof of any changes required to meet the standards being implemented.

Also, should an offline area be deemed not up to the required standard for that portion of the route, the NRA would be forced to provide a more convienent and properly laid out online services which all signage would direct traffic to.

So it would be well in the interest of a private operator to make sure there's no need for the motorway operator to set up a competitor in their doorstep

spacetweek

Lot of interesting info in that NRA doc. The traffic flow diagram on page 19 (PDF 22) shows that the following segments are above 50k/day and need 6-laning: M1 from Lissenhall to Balbriggan, M4 Lucan-Maynooth, M7 Naas-M9 split, M50 southeast, N11 Bray.

L1011

spacetweek wrote: »

Lot of interesting info in that NRA doc. The traffic flow diagram on page 19 (PDF 22) shows that the following segments are above 50k/day and need 6-laning: M1 from Lissenhall to Balbriggan, M4 Lucan-Maynooth, M7 Naas-M9 split, M50 southeast, N11 Bray.

None we couldn't have guessed at - N11 has some plans, as does the M7 but the rest I suspect will be years away.

Reuben1210

MYOB wrote: »

None we couldn't have guessed at - N11 has some plans, as does the M7 but the rest I suspect will be years away.

Can you elaborate on this?...I'm interested to know what the n11 plans are, as it is woefully over capacity all the way to kilmac every rush hour, but as far as I know it will be almost impossible to three Lane or even substantially upgrade this section due to the myriad of entrances and properties opening directly into it, and also the severity of some of the bends...?

L1011

A previous Draft County Transportation Plan as far as I remember, its somewhere deep on the M11 threads on here. It didn't go in to much detail as to the how, just the why (the traffic levels and issues).