TII Motorway Service Areas (MSA) Progress Thread

munchkin_utd

ongarboy wrote: »

Yes, I think Junction 14 is just as good, facility and accessibility wise as the official MSSs. I do think they should allow for more high profile MSS type signs pointing to it (along with the services eg Supermacs/Insomnia/Spar) to give it more visibility as it's not that obvious when on the motorway apart from a generic Services sign that you get for any offline petrol station. I would say quite a significant amount of motorists who would stop end up inadvertently passing by.

agree 100% and I'd not allow Cashel (or similar) this prominent signing as they have chronically inadequate parking in both lack of spaces and general bad setup (i.e. you need to drive though the pumps to get to them)

They are barely a glorified petrol station so are not and do not deserve to be aforded treatment as an unofficial MSA till they have parking of the standard and quantity that you would expect.

Mayfield on the other hand is 100% and an example of how to do it correctly, even down to the complete separation of trucks and cars, parent and child spaces near the facility, tidy little playarea for kids etc. and it could if not should be afforded the same prominence as the NRA ran facilities.

Ernest

harr wrote: »

Junction 14 is your best bet it has all you need food and services wise

I am not familiar with Junction 14 but, judging from their website which has a location map, it seems to be too near Dublin for anyone going Dublin - Cork. Probably good, though, for anyone going from Cork to Dublin. I cannot see from the website whether it is accessible from both sides of the Motorway.

niloc1951

Midway off Jct. 17 should not be forgotten, while it is not a motorway service area strictly speaking and it does not have fuel services it has ample parking for all types of vehicles, excellent toilet facilities and food hall with a good choice of the major franchises operating there.

Chris_5339762

I usually stop for petrol at J14 M7, then come off at J6 (Horse & Jockey) on the M8 and go to the Horse & Jockey hotel for a wee and a leg stretch

flazio

spacetweek wrote: »

Going over Page 1 of this thread is a tad depressing - 12 MSAs planned: 3 open, one cancelled and one to go to construction in July. Not great. Still no online services on the country's busiest motorways, the M6/7/8.

Well if you look at the page your thread is on, you'll see that Athlone has two stations at Junctions 8 (Kilmartins N6 centre) and 11 (Applgreen) that serve quite adequately and are just as close to the motorway as any of the online services in fact, with the upcoming closure of B&Q beside Applegreen, there's potential for some truck facilities to be installed.

mackerski

flazio wrote: »

Well if you look at the page your thread is on, you'll see that Athlone has two stations at Junctions 8 (Kilmartins N6 centre) and 11 (Applgreen) that serve quite adequately and are just as close to the motorway as any of the online services in fact, with the upcoming closure of B&Q beside Applegreen, there's potential for some truck facilities to be installed.

I don't think you can really claim this with respect to J8. Kilmartins is both further from the mainline and much more prone to disruption from local traffic than, say, the Lusk M1 Services. Applegreen at J11 is a little closer, but still subject to local traffic.

veryangryman

mackerski wrote: »

I don't think you can really claim this with respect to J8. Kilmartins is both further from the mainline and much more prone to disruption from local traffic than, say, the Lusk M1 Services. Applegreen at J11 is a little closer, but still subject to local traffic.

What do you lose in time with athlone for traffic? 2 minutes max. Also you can use enfield for galway to rosslare. Or if your that way inclined use the N80 with numerous places to stop on.

road_high

The M9 is dismally serviced now compared to the others. You have to pull way off the road to stop anywhere. Even Crookstown near exit 3 is not exactly just at the junction. Carlow and Kilkenny are both way off the motorway as well.

flazio

mackerski wrote: »

I don't think you can really claim this with respect to J8. Kilmartins is both further from the mainline and much more prone to disruption from local traffic than, say, the Lusk M1 Services. Applegreen at J11 is a little closer, but still subject to local traffic.

Yes, but thanks to the old alignment of the bypass, the road to Kilmartins from the Motorway is DC and has a 2 lane RAB outside it.

I have mentioned in the past, it makes more financial sense to place a Service area off line on a place where the old and the new route are close to each other, like in Mayfield, as then you can catch both traffic who use the motorway AND those who for whatever reason, opt for the old route.

mackerski

flazio wrote: »

Yes, but thanks to the old alignment of the bypass, the road to Kilmartins from the Motorway is DC and has a 2 lane RAB outside it.

It's still not, as you suggested, "just as close to the motorway as any of the online services in fact". It's further away than the online services, in fact. And, thanks to local traffic, more awkward to get in and out of.

spacetweek

mackerski wrote: »

It's still not, as you suggested, "just as close to the motorway as any of the online services in fact". It's further away than the online services, in fact. And, thanks to local traffic, more awkward to get in and out of.

Agreed - offline services are a poor substitute for online.

ongarboy

Ernest wrote: »

I am not familiar with Junction 14 but, judging from their website which has a location map, it seems to be too near Dublin for anyone going Dublin - Cork. Probably good, though, for anyone going from Cork to Dublin. I cannot see from the website whether it is accessible from both sides of the Motorway.

I drive Dublin-Tralee fairly regularly and agree it is a bit soon for a stop. However, as it's still an hour from my place in Dublin, I always feel I've gotten a decent chunk of my drive out of the way before stopping there. I'm happy then to continue the remaining 2 and a bit hours drive in one go once I've filled up/refreshed there. In fact with the roads so good now, I often do the full journey in one go without stopping at all anymore if I don't have kids or others with me.

For anyone travelling from Belfast/Down/Louth to the south and midwest and vice versa, J14 is a perfect interim stop.

flazio

mackerski wrote: »

It's still not, as you suggested, "just as close to the motorway as any of the online services in fact". It's further away than the online services, in fact. And, thanks to local traffic, more awkward to get in and out of.

Local traffic has never impeded my access to this service stop. The DC layout is perfectly adequate for me to pass slower traffic, it's barely 10 to 30 seconds from the motorway, you would probably take just as long to find a parking spot in an online stop.
You didn't take me up on my other point, take Mayfield it's position is perfect for the motorway, roll off, roll back on AND the old N7 (R445) can gain access to the services as well. It's win win for them, I believe that the Moneygall service stop is also going to be accessible from the old road as well. Remember in order to provide the 'service' that motorway users need then they have to be making money, in order to do that in this country you need to be open to as many customers as you possibly can, you go to a bank manager and say you have a proposal for a near motorway service station that can serve both the motorway AND the old route, versus a station that can only serve the motorway, which do you think the bank will finance?

mackerski

flazio wrote: »

Local traffic has never impeded my access to this service stop. The DC layout is perfectly adequate for me to pass slower traffic,

I'm glad you feel that way - but I have beed impeded by local traffic, particularly on exiting the services. Likewise - and this is one of the positives of an offline service area - the fact that there are many shops on this same site can make things busier than you would like if you just want petrol and a wee wee and to be on your way again. Possibly not grounds for duplicating this location with online services, but there is no doubt that offline ones are inferior for most travellers - indeed, even finding your way back onto the motorway is harder.

flazio wrote: »

it's barely 10 to 30 seconds from the motorway, you would probably take just as long to find a parking spot in an online stop.

Really? It's 930m from where the sliproad diverges from the mainline going west (further if going east) to the mini roundabout just inside the complex. That has you doing an average speed of between 110 and 300 km/h (both of which would be illegal and even on the lower end almost certainly impossible). Since we are supposed to be comparing two different kinds of services it's only fair that what you present as facts should be just that.

ongarboy

An official planning application has now been lodged for a 24 hour MSA outside Fermoy on the M8.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/corkman/news/motorway-service-station-could-bring-100-jobs-to-fermoy-29145085.html

spacetweek

This corresponds with the MSA on Page 1 of this thread titled:

9) M8 - Near Kilworth

Wouldn't have thought this one was a priority - seems very close to Cork?

L1011

There's no services online on the n25 or n40 for some distance from dunkettle. Not every m8 journey starts in the city

munchkin_utd

MYOB wrote: »

There's no services online on the n25 or n40 for some distance from dunkettle. Not every m8 journey starts in the city

+1
Also, anyone coming from Tralee / Macroom/ West Cork has their last convenient stop at Lisarda here : http://goo.gl/maps/Ia8a0 (which co-incidentally the googlestreetview people also used for a stop!!) and thats a good 70km from Fermoy.
Timewise its between 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 hours from various points of West Cork so again for tourists and other folks heading to Dublin its a convenient and timely enough spot to take a break.

Slightly on a tangent, this is NOT an NRA MSA so should this development not be on the other thread for unofficial offline services?

Quickelles

spacetweek wrote: »

Wouldn't have thought this one was a priority - seems very close to Cork?

Why does it have to be a "priority"? It being built by a private enterprise so the criteria is profitability.

It's the online official Service Areas that were planned that would be prioritised but there is no money to build them. So we get semi-official private jobs like Monasterevin.

spacetweek

Are you guys sure this is an unofficial MSA? It's in a location earmarked for an official one and is going to be full-size and 24/7. Doesn't matter if it's privately or publicly funded, sounds official enough.

Chris_5339762

I reckon its unofficial because the official ones are on-line, this appears to be located actually AT Junction 14 of the M8.

Unfortunately it'll decimate the one thats currently about 2km from the motorway.

munchkin_utd

spacetweek wrote: »

Are you guys sure this is an unofficial MSA? It's in a location earmarked for an official one and is going to be full-size and 24/7. Doesn't matter if it's privately or publicly funded, sounds official enough.

theres no mention of a specific location in any NRA document and theres only an indicative mentioning that somewhere near Fermoy is a suitable location on page 3 of this document:
http://www.nra.ie/RepositoryforPublicationsInfo/file,17923,en.pdf

Somewhere else theres a mentioning that it would be between junctions, not AT a junction.

they also mention:

. As advised at the time, the Authority intended to identify a small number of additional potential service area sites supplementing those initially identified, which, together, would constitute the NRA’s service areas programme.

so basically saying that (high quality?) unofficial sites will compliment the official sites?

serfboard

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I reckon its unofficial because the official ones are on-line, this appears to be located actually AT Junction 14 of the M8.

From the original article:

The Irish Independent wrote:

The application for the development, on a 4.6 acres site at junction 14 of the M8, was lodged with Cork County Council on March 8 by JR Oronco Ltd.

Not between junctions, and the application was not lodged by the NRA, but by a company only registered last year, so definitely unofficial.

Cllr Noel McCarthy, chairman of the Fermoy Business Action Group wrote:

Not only will this bring new jobs to Fermoy, I believe it will also attract people from the motorway into the town, providing a welcome boost to the wider local business community

And I believe you're talking out your ass Cllr McCarthy, but sure what's new with Irish (Local) Politicians.

"Oh look, this motorway service station is so nice, it makes me want to go and visit the local town!" :rolleyes:

Aidan1

Not every m8 journey starts in the city

Thats the key. A lot of journeys (particularly trucks) will originate in East or West Cork, and could well spend an hour on the road getting to that point heading north, or have at least an hour ahead of them if heading south. Well placed for a rest stop, top up with coffee, and back on the road. It also means that you can leave the city with low fuel, and fill up on the way. It's a direct analogue to the M7 J14 services (which happen to be excellent as well as in a good location).

munchkin_utd

From a government announcment today on road safety :

* At least five new service areas on motorways will be built to combat tiredness;

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/fines-for-cyclists-and-alcohol-locks-for-drivers-on-the-cards-1.1341664

no details on what actually is planned and whether its the implementation of tranche 2 of the official MSA's but its good to see that its on the agenda.
EDIT: in the actual document it states that the stations are to be "on or immediately adjacent" to the motorway which suggests that the NRA will accept suitable offline services as part of the 5 to be delivered - so Fermoy M8 and Obama Plaza M7 (Moneygal) are probably the first 2 with official MSA Tranche 2 locations at Athlone M6 and the 2 on the M9/M11 making the 5 in total?
http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/About%20Us/RSA_STRATEGY_2013-2020%20.pdf

as has been said a million times before, a tiny amount spent in grading/approving existing facilities like Mayfield or Midway at Portlaoise to be fit for purpose (excluding death traps like Topaz at Cashel) along with the accompanying signing right to the destination would go a long way to addressing the problems in the short term with a lack of official purpose built services.

The current signage is a joke and even when I am looking to stop at a place its a matter of guesswork as to whether its actually what I am looking for.
What is wrong with giving each place a title and mentioning it on the sign, and with that a note to the next place (with name/ title) and how far it is down the road, i.e. just like every other country in Europe does it.

Geogregor

I have a question guys.
Are those service stations just off the motorway (like the one at Jct 14 on M7 or Topaz in Cashel) signposted on the motorway?
It is common practice in the US and it would really help in Ireland without costly online services.

L1011

They're signed with less than distinct signs - large brown tourist ones showing that they have fuel. Mayfield and Topaz Dublin Port I think are the only ones done as such currently.

They're not the same signs as used to show that there's vaguely a petrol station somewhere off the motorway.

Rightwing

MYOB wrote: »

They're signed with less than distinct signs - large brown tourist ones showing that they have fuel. Mayfield and Topaz Dublin Port I think are the only ones done as such currently.

They're not the same signs as used to show that there's vaguely a petrol station somewhere off the motorway.

The signs are fine. :rolleyes:

Aquarius34

Are they going ahead with the service station at Moneygall. Oh that's going to be a disaster as the junction there is really inadequate for a service station to be built off it.

Quickelles

Aquarius34 wrote: »

Are they going ahead with the service station at Moneygall. Oh that's going to be a disaster as the junction there is really inadequate for a service station to be built off it.

Not sure about "disaster" but yes, the Lilo-type junction is designed for very light usage.