Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email Niamh on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
New AMA with a US police officer (he's back!). You can ask your questions here

TII Motorway Service Areas (MSA) Progress Thread

  • 11-12-2008 7:35pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    I think it's about time this issue had its own dedicated thread where updates can be provided on the situation with MSAs (Motorway Service Areas)...

    As of this month, we have 435 km of motorway. By this time in 2010, that will have increased to over 800 km (nearly triple what it was two years ago).

    The NRA have plans to create 12 service areas (you can view their map in the attachment):

    1) M1 - South of Balbriggan
    2) M1 - South of Dundalk
    3) M4 - West of Enfield
    4) M6 - Near Athlone
    5) M6 - Rathmorrisey Interchange
    6) M7 - Near Mountrath
    7) M7 - East of Nenagh
    8) M8 - North of Cashel
    9) M8 - Near Kilworth
    10) M9 - Near Kilcullen
    11) M9 - Near Bagenalstown
    12) M11 - Between Arklow and Gorey

    They are planning an additional one for the M3.

    When the M18 and M20 are (eventually) finished it is reasonable to expect one MSA on each of them.

    CURRENT STAGE:

    EIS Plans have been drawn up for:

    1) M1 Southern MSA
    2) M1 Northern MSA
    3) M4 MSA
    4) M6 Athlone MSA
    5) M9 Kilcullen MSA (Just released)
    6) M11 Gorey MSA

    The EIS plans for the other 6 areas I have been told will be published over the coming 2-3 months.

    The following are at tender stage:
    1) M1 Southern MSA
    2) M1 Northern MSA
    3) M4 MSA

    According to the NRA/EIS plans:

    > Each service area takes 12 - 18 months to construct...
    > The service areas are expected to be operational by the end of 2010...

    > The facilities in each service area will be (but are not limited to):
    • Parking (seperate parking for HGVs)
    • Fuel Facilities
    • Convenience Shop
    • Picnic Areas
    • Toilets
    • Restraunt(s)
    • Seating Areas
    • Showers
    • Information Kiosk
    • Children's Play Area
    • Telephone Facilities
    Please post any updates on the MSAs in this thread...


«13456752

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,306 ✭✭✭ serfboard


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    The NRA have plans to create 12 service areas (you can view their map in the attachment):

    1) M1 - South of Balbriggan
    2) M1 - South of Dundalk
    3) M4 - West of Enfield
    4) M6 - Near Athlone
    5) M6 - Rathmorrisey Interchange
    6) M7 - Near Mountrath
    7) M7 - East of Nenagh
    8) M8 - South of Cashel
    9) M8 - Near Kilworth
    10) M9 - Near Kilcullen
    11) M9 - Near Bagenalstown
    12) M11 - Between Arklow and Gorey

    They are planning an additional one for the M3.

    When the M18 and M20 are (eventually) finished it is reasonable to expect one MSA on each of them.

    First off, thanks for the thread.

    Second, I don't know if there was any discussion about where these are located before, and I don't know if you welcome any now, but here's my ¢0.02 anyway. ;)

    If you're traveling from Dublin and you're going:

    - North, you're first stop is in Co. Dublin (and you're hardly gone up the road).
    - West or to Waterford you get to stop in Kildare (OK, Enfield is technically in Meath, but it's as near as makes no difference, and it's still in the GDA).
    - South-West or Mid-West you have to wait until you're in deepest, darkest Laois before you get a stop.
    - South, you're in your final county destination before you get a stop here.

    Does this not seem like inconsistent planning by the NRA? (Or, has this all been discussed before?)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    serfboard wrote: »
    First off, thanks for the thread.

    Second, I don't know if there was any discussion about where these are located before, and I don't know if you welcome any now, but here's my ¢0.02 anyway. ;)

    If you're traveling from Dublin and you're going:

    - North, you're first stop is in Co. Dublin (and you're hardly gone up the road).
    - West or to Waterford you get to stop in Kildare (OK, Enfield is technically in Meath, but it's as near as makes no difference, and it's still in the GDA).
    - South-West or Mid-West you have to wait until you're in deepest, darkest Laois before you get a stop.
    - South, you're in your final county destination before you get a stop here.

    Does this not seem like inconsistent planning by the NRA? (Or, has this all been discussed before?)

    Well, I wouldn't have had some of the MSAs located where they are:

    M8 - Cashel - far too close to the other one - it should be nearer to Urlingford.

    M9 - Kilcullen - poor location IMO. Move it onto the M7 just after the M7/M9 junction.

    M6 - Rathmorrissey Junction - Just... no. It's already a stupid junction, I don't see why they need to tack an MSA onto it.

    However, I can see the justification for the rest of the MSA locations.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 220 ✭✭ Declan30


    M7 one at Mountrath is perfect if you are travelling limerick to dublin.U would have over just and hour each way of your journey left.

    The nenagh one would be suitable for the Noth cork Kerry area travelling the M7.

    If any of these rest areas are built before 2015 will be a huge surprise give the even bigger department cuts the goverment will have to do next year.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    Declan30 wrote: »
    M7 one at Mountrath is perfect if you are travelling limerick to dublin.U would have over just and hour each way of your journey left.

    The Mountrath one is by far the most sensible location for an MSA and I think the most necessary. It serves the M7 and M8 route. In other words, all the Dublin-Limerick and Dublin-Cork traffic.
    Declan30 wrote:
    If any of these rest areas are built before 2015 will be a huge surprise give the even bigger department cuts the goverment will have to do next year.

    The budget actually shouldn't affect the MSAs too much. After the NRA produce the EIS, get planning permission and aquire the land, they pay no other costs. The MSAs are PPP schemes. The concessionaire builds and maintains the MSA and then keeps the profits for the duration of the contractual period.

    That said, it is very unlikely we'll see all twelve done by the end of 2010. Maybe one or two of them...


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭ spacetweek


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    That said, it is very unlikely we'll see all twelve done by the end of 2010. Maybe one or two of them...
    I'm not convinced there'd even be a need for 12 so soon anyway. It will take a long time for most of our completed network to fill. Most areas will be very quiet at first.

    I'm just wondering where you got your 435km figure from? Did you make a list? I get 441km from the list at the bottom of this page.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    spacetweek wrote: »
    I'm not convinced there'd even be a need for 12 so soon anyway. It will take a long time for most of our completed network to fill. Most areas will be very quiet at first.

    I'm just wondering where you got your 435km figure from? Did you make a list? I get 441km from the list at the bottom of this page.

    M6 - 57.5 km
    M8 - 102 km
    M7 - 63 km
    M9 - 24.5 km
    M50 - 45 km
    M1 - 80 km
    M11 - 8 km
    M4 - 55 km


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,528 ✭✭✭ dcr22B


    M1 Service area (Applegreen M1) now open. Good facility it has to be said.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    dcr22B wrote: »
    M1 Service area (Applegreen M1) now open. Good facility it has to be said.


    I think that's a private service area, not an NRA one. Thanks for the update though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    Furet wrote: »
    I think that's a private service area, not an NRA one. Thanks for the update though.

    Is it the M1 Business Park...

    I thought that was an MSA too, however, I quickly learned that it wasn't...


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭ nordydan


    Yeah used it twice, beats the one in Carlingford hands down...


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 220 ✭✭ Declan30


    Havent travelled the M1 in over a year and a half now. what is the service area like.
    Is their space for trucks and buses to pull in.
    Hearing about some of these MSA.They seem a little small and only a few trucks at a time can park there.
    Given the amount of trucks on our road these day seems odd to me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    Not much of an update, but I guess I should just inform you that the NRA told me a few weeks ago that six of the twelve service stations will be operational by the end of 2010.

    They also informed me that the remaining MSA applications will be submitted to An Bord Pleanála by the end of March.

    However, I've seen no new MSA EIS plans on the NRA website this month.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    A little bit of actual news for you:

    At this stage we all know that Tranche 1 of the MSA program consists of:

    M1 - Dundalk
    M1 - Balbriggan
    M4 - Enfield

    Well, I've just discovered the NRA's Tranche 2:

    M7 - Nenagh
    M8 - Cashel
    M9 - Kilcullen

    http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=DEC110840


    M8 - http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=JAN111651

    M7 - http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=JAN111650

    M9 - http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=JAN111649

    So that's it. Those are the six MSAs the NRA intends to open within the immediate future.

    So what do I think of their choices?

    Simply put:

    awful.

    Where is the M6 Athlone one? Why is the M9 Kilcullen one, an MSA that should be on the M7 being built before the M9 Carlow one? I would've taken the M8 Kilworth over M8 Cashel, especially considering the lunacy with Topaz/McDonalds that's going on there now. Why isn't M7 Mountrath being built over M7 Nenagh? The Mountrath one would cover both M8 and M7 traffic and it is perfectly situated in the middle of both the Dublin-Cork and Dublin-Limerick routes.

    Eugh... I can't even be bothered to go into this any further. Poor decision making yet again...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    I note that once the contract is awarded the construction company has 14 months to complete the works.

    So, assuming the EIS for tranche 2 appear in February, how long before Bórd Pleanála deliver a "ya" or "nay"?

    And what about tranche 1? Have they received planning approval? Has construction started?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    The NRA first advertised for tenders for Tranche 1 in mid 2007.
    A contract notice was placed in the OJEC on the 1st May 2007 seeking Request to Participate submissions from interested candidates for Tranche 1 Service Areas on the National Roads Network.

    According to this: http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=IRELAND-qqqm=nav-qqqid=38908-qqqx=1.asp

    Planning permission was granted for the M4 MSAs, but is still due on the M1 ones.

    So now we're in 2009 and they still haven't awarded the contracts. The contracts are due to be awarded this year:
    The Authority received the Stage One submissions from Participants on 28th October 2008. The next steps will be to shortlist the Participants further and proceed to Stage Two submissions and ultimately to contract award in 2009.

    So those ones will be opening mid-late 2010 at the earliest.

    I'm afraid if the other MSA schemes face a similar timescale then we're looking at 2011/2012 and beyond. :(

    Half the fuss with the Tranche 1 was to do with planning permission however, and the NRA did say they were trying to fastrack the other MSAs through the planning process.

    Still, it's hard to see construction beginning on any of the tranche 2 MSAs until late 2010 at the very earliest, let alone the rest of them...

    Btw, I mentioned on the other threads that the NRA's promises would gradually keep dwindling away... I was correct.

    First it was 2009, then it was 2010, then it was "on all the MIUs by 2010", then it was "six operational by 2010", and now it's "three in 2010, the rest in 2011"...

    Basically, it's whenever they feel like it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    Did anyone read today's Irish Independent? There was supposed to be an NRA ad in it about the Cashel Service Area EIS...I seldom buy a paper so I didn't get a chance to check. The EIS still isn't up on the NRA website though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 KevR


    Furet wrote: »
    Did anyone read today's Irish Independent? There was supposed to be an NRA ad in it about the Cashel Service Area EIS...I seldom buy a paper so I didn't get a chance to check. The EIS still isn't up on the NRA website though.

    There are two adverts in it - one on page 54 and the other on page 55 (of the metro version).

    The first section of both adverts contains details of the service area and both adverts contain a map.

    The second part of the advert on page 54 informs people of where they can obtain a copy of the scheme and where they can inspect a map. It also explains how people can object to it.

    The second part of the ad on page 55 contains details of how people can obtain a copy of the environmental impact statement and how they can make submissions about the likely effects on the environment caused by the service area.

    PS - You have a PM.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    Interesting to note that the AADT between junction 7 and 6 is almost 19,000 whereas it's only 15,500 between junctions 9 and 10. It's very noticable when you drive it, though I've never seen the numbers quantified before.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    The construction of the M8 Cashel Service Area requires an overbridge over the M8
    motorway to allow access to and from the northbound carriageway.
    The bridge could be either a two or three span structure. A two span structure would
    require a pier to be constructed in the median of the existing M8. This would require
    the M8 to be widened locally to allow a widened median to facilitate the pier and
    associated safety barriers. The construction of the widened median would result in
    significant disruption to traffic on the M8 and is therefore not a favourable option. It
    is therefore recommended that a three span structure is provided with piers located
    west of the verge of the northbound carriageway and diverge, and east of the verge of
    the southbound carriageway where the existing lay by shall be removed. Bankseats
    will be provided at the top of the embankments. This will result in a main span of
    27m and side span of 12m. The structural form of the bridge would more than likely
    consist of precast pretensioned concrete U beams with a composite in-situ reinforced
    concrete deck slab supported by integral twin concrete circular piers and bankseat
    abutments. Foundations would most likely be concrete pads for both piers and
    bankseats depending on ground conditions. The exact structural from will be
    determined at detailed design stage.

    So, no major disruption to traffic. Good!


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 Chris_533976


    Ridiculous crap that they have to widen it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    Ridiculous crap that they have to widen it.

    No, they're opting for the three span option where no pillar will be constructed on the mainline.
    Overbridge
    An overbridge over the dual carriageway will be provided at chainage 5+010m to
    provide access to and from the southbound carriageway.
    The construction of the overbridge will involve excavation in the verges of the M8 to
    allow the construction of pier foundations; the construction of bankseat abutments
    and embankments. Precast beams will be manufactured off site and delivered to site
    for lifting into position on to the bankseats and crosshead beams. Lifting of the main
    span beams will involve temporary total closure of the M8 for a short period. This is
    estimated to occur over one or two nights. Side span beams may be placed into
    position from the adjacent embankments. With the precast beams in place, in-situ
    concrete diaphragms will be cast forming the integral deck/pier and deck/bankseat
    connections. Permanent formwork will be erected on the beams and the composite
    deck slab will be cast. Backfilling behind the abutments will be completed, and the
    bridge will be finished with deck waterproofing, drainage, service ducts, public
    lighting, parapets and surfacing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    However,
    All haulage of plant and materials to and from the construction site will be made from the M8 motorway with the exception of construction traffic associated with the construction of the watermain connection and other utilities. Construction traffic may be permitted to use the L5403 Road in exceptional circumstances and with prior approval of the Local Authority. Initially, suitable traffic management arrangements will have to be implemented to permit the safe use of a temporary access from the edge of the M8 motorway and to separate traffic from the general public. These traffic management measures will need to be in place for the duration of the works on the construction site of the service area.
    **
    A construction management plan will be developed by the Contractor(s) prior to the commencement of work on site. The plan will be formulated in consultation with South Tipperary County Council, the National Roads Authority and An Garda Siochána. This plan will cover issues such as agreement of haul routes, relevant construction traffic management measures and monitoring measures. The plan will take cognisance of all road users particularly those who are vulnerable or impaired.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    Okay, I had some time to read this thoroughly, and compile a "summary" of sorts of the most interesting/notable points:
    Construction works are currently planned to commence in late 2009.

    lol
    The overall distance between Dublin (N7/M50 Interchange) and Cork (Dunkettle Interchange) is approximately 240km. *

    * When the M7/M8 is completed.
    Due to the presence of several existing service stations on the N7 between Dublin and Naas, it was considered that the service and rest needs of drivers on this section of road were adequately served by the existing on-line facilities, and accordingly this section of route was not considered for provision of a service area with respect to the
    M7/M8 corridor.
    It should be noted that the provision of access to the site
    would require the removal of existing lay-bys on both the northbound and southbound carriageways of the mainline M8 Motorway.

    So how many people will use the MSA?
    ... a rate of 12% of the mainline AADT for both light and
    heavy commercial vehicles was derived, based on the findings of the TRL assessment

    Basically 12% of the mainline AADT will use it.

    In 2010 (is it opening then?), they predict 14,624 AADT. So, the throughput will be 1,755.

    In 2025, they predict over 18,000 AADT.

    With regard to motorway redesignations, I noticed how the NRA are already referring to J19 and J18 as "M8" junctions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    BluntGuy, where are you getting those AADT figures from? According to page 33 of this AADT for the area is 19,000.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    Oops, my bad. Those figures are for 15 years into the future apparently.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    Yeah, I was sure when I read it it said something like 18,800 or 18,900 or something to that effect.

    Anyway, the MSA looks to be viable. 1,700 AADT throughput. Say the average number of adult, paying occupents per car is between 1 and 3. That should give the contractor sufficient business.

    I don't know about this though. Does the EIS take into account the Topaz/McDonalds development? I don't think it does.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    Yeah, I was sure when I read it it said something like 18,800 or 18,900 or something to that effect.

    Anyway, the MSA looks to be viable. 1,700 AADT throughput. Say the average number of adult, paying occupents per car is between 1 and 3. That should give the contractor sufficient business.

    I don't know about this though. Does the EIS take into account the Topaz/McDonalds development? I don't think it does.

    Probably not...but the bit between Junction 7 and Junction 6 is substantially busier than the Cashel Bypass AADT-wise. That catches the Dublin to Cork traffic AND the Thurles to Cashel traffic, of which there's quite a bit. I think it's a good location. But the M8 is a very variable road: sometimes it's dead, and other times it's seriously busy. I think whoever runs it will make a nice packet on it, Topaz or not.

    Prospects for the Kilworth SA? I've written a little about it on the M-F thread. EIS due in March?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    A semi-update:

    The NRA have tendered for ground investigations at the M8 and M9 MSAs:

    http://www.e-tenders.gov.ie/Search/Show/Search_View.aspx?id=FEB114415

    http://www.e-tenders.gov.ie/Search/Show/Search_View.aspx?id=FEB114395

    They are really rushing through this. Last time it took nearly a year between the initial publishing for tender and the publishing for tender of the ground investigations.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann



    Rest-stop concerns as 300km of road are designated motorway

    A LACK of rest-stops on some 300km of newly-designated motorway was criticised yesterday as posing a major safety hazard.Sections of 10 national roads were yesterday redesignated as motorway, giving them a new speed limit of 120km/h and prohibiting learner drivers and pedestrians from using them.
    Irish motorways do not yet have any service stops as in other European countries. These were essential from a safety point of view, said Automobile Association policy adviser Conor Faughnan.
    “One of the major hazards on motorways is that drivers are prone to fatigue. Doing long miles on high-quality roads means that drivers are vulnerable to micro-sleep and drifting across lanes.”
    However, a National Roads Authority (NRA) spokeswoman said if people were tired there were offramps into towns and villages until the service station programme was in place.
    The NRA has planned over a dozen service stations on the entire motorway network. The contract for six service stations on the M1 and M4 is expected to be signed in the next few weeks. However, a tender has not yet been advertised for service stations on the remainder of the network.
    Not all of the new motorway signage and road furniture were installed on the newly-classified roads yesterday.
    In Co Clare, conflicting speed limit signs just yards from each other on a motorway slip-road left motorists confused. At least one 100km/h sign remained in place on the motorway between Ennis and Clarecastle, with no 120km/h sign to be found on the motorway except on two slip-roads.
    The NRA said it was not possible to erect all the signs in time for the upgrade, and it hoped to have all signs up by today.
    Concerns have been raised in Clare about the suitability of the Ennis bypass offramps for motorway classification. The NRA yesterday said safety checks had been carried out and the ramps complied with standards.
    Learner drivers, cyclists and slow-moving tractors will have to seek new routes because they are not allowed on motorways.
    With driving test waiting lists down to eight or nine weeks, “there is no reason why a learner driver should be allowed to use the motorway”, Mr Faughnan said.
    Among the sections of road reclassified are: 13km of the N2 (Killshane-Ashbourne); 7km of the N4 (Kinnegad-McNead’s Bridge); 20km of the N6 (Athlone-Ballinasloe); 8.5km of the Limerick Southern Ring; 7km of the N8 (Watergrasshill-Glanmire) and the Glanmire bypass (6.3km); three sections of the N11 (including 8km from Ashford-Rathnew, 21km from Arklow-Gorey and 7km of the Arklow bypass); 2.1km of the N3 (Littlepace to Loughsallagh); two sections of the N18 (Shannon to Ennis 8.3km; Ennis bypass 12.5km); and 5km of the N20/N21 (Limerick to Attyflin).
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0829/1224253464457.html


Advertisement