TII Motorway Service Areas (MSA) Progress Thread

jd

Isn't one of the functions of a service area to provide "rest" services to all travellers. Is it it part of the planning conditions for the off-line service stations? Are they open 24 hours?

L1011

Geogregor wrote: »

You must be kidding me. Comparing Ireland with Belgium??

Small country with a similar motorway density, not population density.

Geogregor

MYOB wrote: »

Small country with a similar motorway density, not population density.

But motorway density has no influence on services locations. It is all about the traffic levels, journeys distances and drivers habits.

Besides, according to this table (admittedly a bit out of date):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_road_network_size

Belgium has 54km of motorway per square km while Ireland only 9.5
Even if we double the length of Irish motorways (as data is a bit old) it will give us about 18km of motorway per square km, still only about third of the Belgian density

veryangryman

MYOB wrote: »

Small country with a similar motorway density, not population density.

Just to keep the focus a bit, my question was

Find a similar size country and populated island with better motorway facililities than us.

Belgium doesn't qualify.

L1011

veryangryman wrote: »

Just to keep the focus a bit, my question was

Find a similar size country and populated island with better motorway facililities than us.

Belgium doesn't qualify.

There isn't a similar size and density island to begin with.

Define what you want to avoid facts - we have an appallingly poor provision of services

L1011

Geogregor wrote: »

(admittedly a bit out of date):

2004 off older data. Uselessly old. In 2004 there wasnt even motorway to.portlaoise!

spacetweek

MYOB wrote: »

2004 off older data. Uselessly old. In 2004 there wasnt even motorway to.portlaoise!

The data for Ireland is from 2009 (check the citation, I updated it myself).

Doesn't matter though, as online services is more about convenience and safety than population/population density/motorway density/island or not/size of island.

MYOB, I agree the M11 and M9 are probably the two most poorly served motorways in the country, but not sure I agree that the M8 is OK? Isn't the facility at Cashel pretty bad? And surely that is a very important motorway as it links Cork with Dublin.

On a separate note the stations along the N7 Dublin-Naas part are in need of rebuilding and consolidation. They're all too small and too close to the road.

L1011

Fermoy is another just about acceptable one for the m8. Bit far offline though.

There was PP to replace the citybound esso at kill - never happened though

serfboard

MYOB wrote: »

MSAs are a safety feature as much as anything else on a motorway.

I'm not disagreeing with you in terms of the safety features of MSAs. I would advocate more of them as well.

MYOB wrote: »

We're the freak here.

We're not the freak here. We're the ones who ran out of money here. And so, the private sector has jumped in to try and fill the gap. They're taking a punt that by the time we eventually get around to building the MSAs we had planned, they'll have made their money back.

Ad-hoc and half-arsed I know. But this is Ireland. :rolleyes:

veryangryman

Without wishing to repeat myself, i have yet to feel inconvenienced by not having a service station in sections of the network. The need and demand just isn't there. If it were, the companies would be chomping at the bit to set up and make some money.

I'm not everybody, fair enough but my opinions are as valid as the next mans.

antoobrien

PP application has been lodged for the M9 at J7 (Paulstown)

Geogregor

Looking at the map of Ireland it seems like a good location, far enough from Dublin, about half way through the M9 length.

munchkin_utd

Geogregor wrote: »

Looking at the map of Ireland it seems like a good location, far enough from Dublin, about half way through the M9 length.

and cruicially (for it to have enough business to be a viable proposition) its far enough north that it also serves the Kilkenny traffic.

csd

antoobrien wrote: »

PP application has been lodged for the M9 at J7 (Paulstown)

This isn't the NRA one though, is it?

/csd

munchkin_utd

csd wrote: »

This isn't the NRA one though, is it?

/csd

seemingly not as the NRA ones are proper online services.

Which incidentally makes discussion of the topic on this thread (about progress of NRA developed and operated stations) wrong as we have a parallel thread for all things offline NON-Official NRA stations and whatnot!

jd

veryangryman wrote: »

Without wishing to repeat myself, i have yet to feel inconvenienced by not having a service station in sections of the network.

Some people seem to be

Geogregor

munchkin_utd wrote: »

seemingly not as the NRA ones are proper online services.

Which incidentally makes discussion of the topic on this thread (about progress of NRA developed and operated stations) wrong as we have a parallel thread for all things offline NON-Official NRA stations and whatnot!

Maybe the two threads should be merged?
What is the point of such distinction? As long as service area is properly designed and build it doesn't really mater if it is official NRA station or not.

Ernest

Geogregor wrote: »

As long as service area is properly designed and build it doesn't really mater if it is official NRA station or not.

The problem with this is the "properly designed and built" bit.
"Properly designed and built" in whose opinion?

No doubt every gombeen man who fancies adding a bit of a Centra and a Supermac to a rural filling station would regard his efforts as being a "properly designed and built" Motorway Service Station, no matter where located, how accessed or how small or unsightly it might be.

That is why proper national standards should be set and enforced. It should not just be left to "market forces" i.e. to the law of the jungle.

Chris_5339762

The difference between "properly designed and built" can be answered by comparing J14 Mayfield on the M7 (excellent) with the Cashel M8 services (disastrous).

veryangryman

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

The difference between "properly designed and built" can be answered by comparing J14 Mayfield on the M7 (excellent) with the Cashel M8 services (disastrous).

With the exception of space issues I can't see anything wrong with this station. Have used it a few times and pretty happy with it. Sandwich clean jacks reasonably priced fuel. In and out quickly. What is it really lacking. Not happy? Drive another hour or so to midway or mayfield with your bladder

L1011

veryangryman wrote: »

With the exception of space issues I can't see anything wrong with this station. Have used it a few times and pretty happy with it. Sandwich clean jacks reasonably priced fuel. In and out quickly. What is it really lacking. Not happy? Drive another hour or so to midway or mayfield with your bladder

Parking. Layout. Both absolutely brutal.

Spin a junction further down and go to Mother Hubbards instead.

Geogregor

Ernest wrote: »

The problem with this is the "properly designed and built" bit.
"Properly designed and built" in whose opinion?

No doubt every gombeen man who fancies adding a bit of a Centra and a Supermac to a rural filling station would regard his efforts as being a "properly designed and built" Motorway Service Station, no matter where located, how accessed or how small or unsightly it might be.

That is why proper national standards should be set and enforced. It should not just be left to "market forces" i.e. to the law of the jungle.

To be honest, to be "properly built" from the safety perspective it is enough for services to have big parking space so everyone needing a break should be able to find the parking space.
It is big issue in Poland, for example, where services are online with fancy petrol stations and fast-food restaurants but there is no enough space for truckers to stop so they forced to either driver over the time limit or stop in some silly places.
What sort of funky food or hipster coffee services offer is a non-issue if you ask me.

Then comes the problem of very high standards. You can design standards so high that services become uneconomical to be built.
I rather have more smaller services at or near the junctions than no services at all because no sane owner or operator wants to loose money on online behemoths. Should we subsidize wast, loss making facilities?

veryangryman wrote: »

With the exception of space issues I can't see anything wrong with this station. Have used it a few times and pretty happy with it. Sandwich clean jacks reasonably priced fuel. In and out quickly. What is it really lacking. Not happy? Drive another hour or so to midway or mayfield with your bladder

I looked at at it on GSV and it looks fairly normal to me. I can see that it is rather small but adding extra parking when needed shouldn't be an issue, there are vast fields around.

MYOB wrote: »

Parking. Layout. Both absolutely brutal.

Spin a junction further down and go to Mother Hubbards instead.

Still, better such services than nothing at all.


We can discuss design issues, should services be online or at the junctions, how much are we willing to invest in them etc.

But I still don't see the point of splitting such discussion between two different threads just because some are official NRA services and some are not.

Praise the good designs, loath the bad ones, regardless of legal and commercial status of particular services.

marmurr1916

Preliminary preparation works for Kilcullen MSA on the M9 have begun.

The current status of the NRA's online MSA programme is that three out of the original twelve planned online MSAs are finished (Castlebellingham - M1, Lusk - M1, Enfield - M4), two more are under construction (Kilcullen - M9, Gorey - M11) and one has been refused planning permission (Rathmorrisey interchange - M6/M17/M18).

Within a year or so, the NRA's MSA programme will be about 50% complete.

spacetweek

I remember it being 12 too, but the only doc I see on the NRA site now is this one that shows 7 plus the 1 that was refused. What happened to the other 4?

marmurr1916

spacetweek wrote: »

I remember it being 12 too, but the only doc I see on the NRA site now is this one that shows 7 plus the 1 that was refused. What happened to the other 4?

In planning, apparently.

Other Planned Motorway Service Areas.
The provision of on-line service areas is a requirement of the TEN-T (Trans European Transport Network) Regulations recently announced by the E.U. Commission. The National Road Safety Strategy also requires the development of additional on-line service areas.

The Authority will develop a Service Area Policy in 2014 in response to these requirements.

D Trent

spacetweek wrote: »

I remember it being 12 too, but the only doc I see on the NRA site now is this one that shows 7 plus the 1 that was refused. What happened to the other 4?

Where is/was the Athlone MSA supposed to be?

JupiterKid

I see that a new bridge is being built on the M11 as part of the new MSA between Arklow and Gorey.

Ernest

Where is the Motorway Service Area on the M8 road (the Dublin-Cork one or the second half of it anyway, the first half being the M7 to Portlaoise)??
This must be the busiest motorway in the Republic of Ireland, being the main artery between the two biggest cities in the State and, last I heard, there is still no proper motorway service station on it. Unbelievable!

D Trent

Ernest wrote: »

Where is the Motorway Service Area on the M8 road (the Dublin-Cork one or the second half of it anyway, the first half being the M7 to Portlaoise)??
This must be the busiest motorway in the Republic of Ireland, being the main artery between the two biggest cities in the State and, last I heard, there is still no proper motorway service station on it. Unbelievable!

There's one at the Cashel junction, a Topaz and a McDonalds

road_high

Also one slightly off line at Fermoy IIRC.