TII Motorway Service Areas (MSA) Progress Thread

munchkin_utd

sorry folks, I'm loosing track of this now - between official/ unofficial and whatnot!

Is there anything planned ANYWHERE on the main road from the state's 1st and 2nd cities (i.e. Dublin & Cork) north of Cashel, official or unofficial.

veryangryman

munchkin_utd wrote: »

sorry folks, I'm loosing track of this now - between official/ unofficial and whatnot!

Is there anything planned ANYWHERE on the main road from the state's 1st and 2nd cities (i.e. Dublin & Cork) north of Cashel, official or unofficial.

Portlaoise, Rathcoole....

Not official and already there and i know not perfect but...

Were a small island folks. Theres not enough demand for these places and the commercial places know it.

Look at Enfield for instance. Daft as a box of frogs where they put it (in between the toll AND a junction right by petrol stations). And thats with all Sligo/Galway/Ballinaslose/Loughrea/Athlone/Longford/Carrick/Boyle/Castlebar/Ballina/Westport etc traffic on it put together. I can only imagine how empty the Waterford one will be.

Services in the UK work because they are on inter-urbans to Metropolis style cities. They could build them at every junction on the M1/M6 there and they would still be packed. We just dont have the population density to support it

cargo

munchkin_utd wrote: »

sorry folks, I'm loosing track of this now - between official/ unofficial and whatnot!

Is there anything planned ANYWHERE on the main road from the state's 1st and 2nd cities (i.e. Dublin & Cork) north of Cashel, official or unofficial.

Heard a bit about plans for an unofficial one just off the Ballacolla/Abbeyleix/R433 junction on the M8 just south of the split with the M7. Dont know how advanced the plan are though.

munchkin_utd

veryangryman wrote: »

Were a small island folks. Theres not enough demand for these places and the commercial places know it.

but!
theres 65,000 vehicles approx on the M7 at Naas every day.

I find it hard to believe that a station convienent to the Motorway at Kildare or Naas would not make a handsome profit.

Also, having what seems to be too much parking isnt a bad thing! I was driving in Italy over easter and 3 times I had to abandon a planned stop for lack of available parking!
Having pretty much guaranteed parking will increase your chance of planning in a stop at a place.

EDIT: also, the M4 services have one each side of the road which was a bit overkill as has been proven since. If they had one area and a bridge across to the traffic from the other direction, it'd be doing very brisk business

harr

munchkin_utd wrote: »

sorry folks, I'm loosing track of this now - between official/ unofficial and whatnot!
Is there anything planned ANYWHERE on the main road from the state's 1st and 2nd cities (i.e. Dublin & Cork) north of Cashel, official or unofficial.

Unofficial one on the m7 at monasterevin due to open in the next eight weeks or so will have a supermacs and a truck stop with showers and the like looks big enough

munchkin_utd

harr wrote: »

Unofficial one on the m7 at monasterevin due to open in the next eight weeks or so will have a supermacs and a truck stop with showers and the like looks big enough

if its the one mentioned in the article below, its got woefully inadequate parking just like the private one at cashel

The service station is planned 6.9 hectare site adjoining the Mayfield interchange on the M7 motorway. The service station will comprise of motorway services area of 413 square metres, a forecourt shop with a hot food deli, café and seating area, a services forecourt containing 12 fuel pumps with an overhead canopy, three commercial fuel pumps with an overhead canopy, six underground fuel storage tanks and a services yard containing a car wash, air and water facilities and a picnic area.

There will also be a parking area for 23 cars, four coaches and 20 lorry spaces as well as staff parking and a Garda Siochana parking space.

http://www.kildare-nationalist.ie/tabId/201/itemId/6299/Green-light-for-motorway-service-area-at-Monastere.aspx

Edit: heres an overview of why the NRA built services are much more fit for purpose in comparison to the other yokes
(below is about Lusk, but the other NRA stations are the same I believe)

These facilities include parking for 246 vehicles including designated spaces for 184 cars, 13 motorbikes, 10 coaches and 39 HGVs

The MSAs are also more family friendly than anything else seen to date, with everything from bottle heating facilities & changing rooms to indoor and outdoor playgrounds. These facilities include;

Public Toilets – 10 female toilets, 10 male toilets, 2 female/ 2 male showers, 2 baby changing rooms, 2 disabled toilets

http://www.hgvireland.com/09/16/first-motorway-service-station-opens/

Bards

veryangryman wrote: »

Look at Enfield for instance. Daft as a box of frogs where they put it (in between the toll AND a junction right by petrol stations). And thats with all Sligo/Galway/Ballinaslose/Loughrea/Athlone/Longford/Carrick/Boyle/Castlebar/Ballina/Westport etc traffic on it put together. I can only imagine how empty the Waterford one will be.

http://nraextra.nra.ie/CurrentTrafficCounterData/html/M09-2.htm
http://nraextra.nra.ie/CurrentTrafficCounterData/html/M04-32.htm

18,000 AADT at Kilcullen V's 20,000 at Enfield

Not much in the difference if you ask me

veryangryman

Bards wrote: »

http://nraextra.nra.ie/CurrentTrafficCounterData/html/M09-2.htm
http://nraextra.nra.ie/CurrentTrafficCounterData/html/M04-32.htm

18,000 AADT at Kilcullen V's 20,000 at Enfield

Not much in the difference if you ask me

Kilcullen is commuter territory (as is Enfield)

Very few proper long distance journeys that pass thiese places, hence lack of visitors to the pumps/services

As other poster suggested, possibly need to just have one station one side and a bridge to link both sides

whyulittle

veryangryman wrote: »

As other poster suggested, possibly need to just have one station one side and a bridge to link both sides

That is what's planned for the next few MSA's, isn't it?

L1011

That's precisely what's being built for these, yes...

DWCommuter

The only thing inadequate about the Monasterevan service area is the parking for cars. But its doing a great trade and is accessible from both carriageways. Unfortunately the NRA in their wisdom do not see fit to change the N7 signage at Kill, which is still declaring no online services. Surely the Monasterevan site is as online as you can get. Its very similar to UK set ups, built on full junctions.

L1011

I noticed today that Applegreen have "Applegreen MSA loyalty cards" issued to coach drivers, obviously an inducement to get them to bring tours there. Not a bad idea at all.

Dunno what the coach drivers get in return for possible dropping 52 paying customers, the lad who was using it didn't seem to have to pay anything for a BK meal anyway.

Carawaystick

DWCommuter wrote: »

The only thing inadequate about the Monasterevan service area is the parking for cars. But its doing a great trade and is accessible from both carriageways. Unfortunately the NRA in their wisdom do not see fit to change the N7 signage at Kill, which is still declaring no online services. Surely the Monasterevan site is as online as you can get. Its very similar to UK set ups, built on full junctions.

This is the same nra who built a msa 3km from a service station at the Courtlough junction of the M1 with an applegreen service station there already.....

cargo

Carawaystick wrote: »

This is the same nra who built a msa 3km from a service station at the Courtlough junction of the M1 with an applegreen service station there already.....

In fairness this was debated here before (possibly even back in this same thread). 1 the NRA were probably planning the MSA before the Applegreen was built (as it's fairly new also) 2. They have no control over this private enterprise and it could shut down tomorrow, then we'd have people on here complaining that the nra are knobs and should have built a MSA at lusk!!!

I've been using the private Applegreen SS since it opened fairly regularly and now use the MSA (nearly always NB) and I've never seen the Applegreen SS as busy as the 2 MSA's are now.

The private Applegreen SS is still doing a reasonable trade as it probably still suits anyone using the roads off that junction.

tomflynn

Assuming the latest (re)announcement of go-ahead for the Rathnew-Arklow section of N11 is credible (PPP funding via EIB and BoI); does anybody know whether this includes the previously planned MSA around Gorey??

Pete_Cavan

tomflynn wrote: »

Assuming the latest (re)announcement of go-ahead for the Rathnew-Arklow section of N11 is credible (PPP funding via EIB and BoI); does anybody know whether this includes the previously planned MSA around Gorey??

Why is the MSA being built around Gorey anyway? I am not familiar with the M11 but it would appear to me that Gorey is too far south, is too close to the begin/end of most peoples journeys for them to stop and is at the end of the motorway so there is probably online services nearby anyway. Perhaps I am missing something and it is a good location but, to me, the new section of motorway between Arklow and Rathnew would be a better location, and would be an easier build because the junction can be designed to accommodate the MSA.

On other note, if it is being built at Gorey do they plan to build a new junction on the existing motorway or can they use junction 22 which is a dumbbell with no additional exits off the roundabout on one side?

L1011

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Why is the MSA being built around Gorey anyway? I am not familiar with the M11 but it would appear to me that Gorey is too far south, is too close to the begin/end of most peoples journeys for them to stop and is at the end of the motorway so there is probably online services nearby anyway. Perhaps I am missing something and it is a good location but, to me, the new section of motorway between Arklow and Rathnew would be a better location, and would be an easier build because the junction can be designed to accommodate the MSA.

On other note, if it is being built at Gorey do they plan to build a new junction on the existing motorway or can they use junction 22 which is a dumbbell with no additional exits off the roundabout on one side?

There are existing 'services' at Kilmacanogue which they have to take in to account (I'd have taken them in to account by CPO and closing them, they're lethal to exit from and result in the speed limits there being kept low...)

I believe the intent for the Gorey MSA will be between junctions, single sided with a bridge - it wouldn't be classed as a junction but would in effect be one. There is a general dislike of placing MSAs on junctions in the UK now due to the damage caused to traffic flows on the junction and indeed trade to the MSA - people feel they're "leaving" the motorway to use it, whereas they don't if its online.

Also, the only current equivalent to services on the entire N11 south of Kilmac as it stands are the stations in Camolin, which both have decent amounts of parking, hot food, seating areas and toilets (one direction much better than the other, imo, but anyway). Camolin will be bypassed by the Enniscorthy Bypass which may get built in the next decade and a half or so. When that is built there won't even be a petrol station from Oilgate to Kilmac, and Gorey is more sensible as a halfway point for that.

Planning ahead, for once.

Carawaystick

MYOB wrote: »

There are existing 'services' at Kilmacanogue which they have to take in to account (I'd have taken them in to account by CPO and closing them, they're lethal to exit from and result in the speed limits there being kept low...)

I think the Kilmacanogue northbound services isn't too bad, it's compounded by the bus terminus.
The terminus could be moved to possibly somewhere on the left
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.442264,-7.624512&spn=4.097141,11.37085&z=7 here. There seems to be room to widen the road to make it safe

Then make it D3 the whole way to the Rocky road/Avoca handweavers exit, instead of making traffic merge and demerge as at present.
This would give an engineering solution northbound.

Southbound
needs enforcement, which we don't really do in Ireland

Here is the station exit: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.442264,-7.624512&spn=4.097141,11.37085&z=7

A solid white line needs to be painted inside the dashed white lines, making it illegal to go from the station to the mainline. Then you need to get the cops who used to sit under the bridge bagging speeders, bagging solid white line crossers, after advertising that it was gonna happen and again saying how many people they caught in the wickla mick/national press.
liase with the station owner about them informing their patrons to keep goodwill, and the safety would be improved. it'd never be optimal though.

L1011

Carawaystick wrote: »

I think the Kilmacanogue northbound services isn't too bad, it's compounded by the bus terminus.
The terminus could be moved to possibly somewhere on the left
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.442264,-7.624512&spn=4.097141,11.37085&z=7 here. There seems to be room to widen the road to make it safe

Then make it D3 the whole way to the Rocky road/Avoca handweavers exit, instead of making traffic merge and demerge as at present.
This would give an engineering solution northbound.

Southbound
needs enforcement, which we don't really do in Ireland

Here is the station exit: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.442264,-7.624512&spn=4.097141,11.37085&z=7

A solid white line needs to be painted inside the dashed white lines, making it illegal to go from the station to the mainline. Then you need to get the cops who used to sit under the bridge bagging speeders, bagging solid white line crossers, after advertising that it was gonna happen and again saying how many people they caught in the wickla mick/national press.
liase with the station owner about them informing their patrons to keep goodwill, and the safety would be improved. it'd never be optimal though.

Southbound is, as a professional driver who uses both stations frequently, far more dangerous.

For the Northbound, the BE buses have started stopping further North recently. For Southbound, even forcing exiting traffic to use the bridge still creates the situation where exiting traffic can be wiped out by a late-decision exiter from the N11.

As far as I can tell the stations are both owned by their respective brand owners, Ion Energy for S/B and Ireland Roc Ltd for N/B so if there was driver-education-via-fuelling required I doubt there'd be troubles (Ion/Topaz having done many campaigns with the RSA before for instance) but in most cases the risk is from the mainline traffic.

D3 to there is, I believe, in WCC's long term plan for the road.

loyatemu

MYOB wrote: »

Southbound is, as a professional driver who uses both stations frequently, far more dangerous.

For the Northbound, the BE buses have started stopping further North recently. For Southbound, even forcing exiting traffic to use the bridge still creates the situation where exiting traffic can be wiped out by a late-decision exiter from the N11.

As far as I can tell the stations are both owned by their respective brand owners, Ion Energy for S/B and Ireland Roc Ltd for N/B so if there was driver-education-via-fuelling required I doubt there'd be troubles (Ion/Topaz having done many campaigns with the RSA before for instance) but in most cases the risk is from the mainline traffic.

D3 to there is, I believe, in WCC's long term plan for the road.

southbound they need to build an ad-hoc distributor road starting well before the station and force traffic for the junction to use it. Doesn't need to be a huge job, just slightly widen the hard-shoulder and put up permanent bollards to separate it from the main N11. (arguably there should be distributor roads on both sides of the N11 right the way through Kilmac - should've been done when they originally dualled the road).

jd

tomflynn wrote: »

Assuming the latest (re)announcement of go-ahead for the Rathnew-Arklow section of N11 is credible (PPP funding via EIB and BoI); does anybody know whether this includes the previously planned MSA around Gorey??

Yes, according to the Wexford People today...


Here is the linkie
http://www.goreyguardian.ie/news/work-to-start-on-controversial-service-station-2974497.html

Redtop

Does anyone know when there will be a proper Motorway Service Area on the M7 between the Portlaoise Toll Booth and Limerick City ? If I am not mistaken, there are actually none and that's about 110Km of Motorway without a Service Area. There are a few poorly marked petrol stations off the M7 but many of them are hard to find and do not open late.

L1011

Redtop wrote: »

Does anyone know when there will be a proper Motorway Service Area on the M7 between the Portlaoise Toll Booth and Limerick City ? If I am not mistaken, there are actually none and that's about 110Km of Motorway without a Service Area. There are a few poorly marked petrol stations off the M7 but many of them are hard to find and do not open late.

The only likely one will be the Supermacs "Obama Plaza" at Moneygall which will be 24hr and probably signed. Don't think construction has even started on this.

Unlikely to be an NRA-franchised one any time soon.

black47

MYOB wrote: »

The only likely one will be the Supermacs "Obama Plaza" at Moneygall which will be 24hr and probably signed. Don't think construction has even started on this.

Unlikely to be an NRA-franchised one any time soon.

Obama plaza - OMG

L1011

black47 wrote: »

Obama plaza - OMG

Apparently they were given permission to call it that by Obama's handlers...

donkey balls

Redtop wrote: »

Does anyone know when there will be a proper Motorway Service Area on the M7 between the Portlaoise Toll Booth and Limerick City ? If I am not mistaken, there are actually none and that's about 110Km of Motorway without a Service Area. There are a few poorly marked petrol stations off the M7 but many of them are hard to find and do not open late.

There is a petrol station/Mc Donalds at Roscrea and another station/Centra shop at Toomevara,It's a pain in the arse having to come of the motorway just to use a toilet etc.
One major gripe I have with the M7 is the lack of lay byes for the likes of trucks to pull over to take there rest period between jct 14 Mayfield and the Birdhill jct there is only two official lay byes that trucks/buses can use,Yet we hear the adverts on the radio by the RSA telling drivers to pull in when tired:mad: were would they like us to stop for a break?

munchkin_utd

donkey balls wrote: »

There is a petrol station/Mc Donalds at Roscrea and another station/Centra shop at Toomevara,It's a pain in the arse having to come of the motorway just to use a toilet etc.
One major gripe I have with the M7 is the lack of lay byes for the likes of trucks to pull over to take there rest period between jct 14 Mayfield and the Birdhill jct there is only two official lay byes that trucks/buses can use,Yet we hear the adverts on the radio by the RSA telling drivers to pull in when tired:mad: were would they like us to stop for a break?

the lay-bys that there are on the irish motorways are apparantly an accident.
They are only there because the roads were planned originally as a dual carraigeways and subsequently reclassified as motorways.
If they were to be motorways in the first place they wouldnt have had lay bys.

I presume this is another slavish copying of british road standards.
But a b@stardised irish fecked up effort of a copying as they decided that motorways shouldn't have rest stops as they arent in the british motorway design manual BUT with the irish twist that theres not going to be service areas either as that would take business from the local businessmen being bypassed and the motorist was supposed to make the massive detour off the motorway for a slash etc to fill the coffers of the local businessmen.
(note, its only an unfortunate co-incidence that most local county council councillors are local FF/FG businessmen pushing their interests, be it planning or otherwise :mad:)

EDIT: that there are now motorways service areas built and in planning was NOT originally intended BTW. You were supposed to magically find the offline old service areas owned by local businessmen that werent in any way signposted. Cünts.

Frank Black

donkey balls wrote: »

There is a petrol station/Mc Donalds at Roscrea and another station/Centra shop at Toomevara,It's a pain in the arse having to come of the motorway just to use a toilet etc.
One major gripe I have with the M7 is the lack of lay byes for the likes of trucks to pull over to take there rest period between jct 14 Mayfield and the Birdhill jct there is only two official lay byes that trucks/buses can use,Yet we hear the adverts on the radio by the RSA telling drivers to pull in when tired:mad: were would they like us to stop for a break?

The existing lay-bys on the motorway network were designed (and constructed in some cases) before the roads were 'upgraded' to motorway status.

These lay-bys do not have the appropriate merge/diverge tapers and really shouldn't be allowed on a motorway. You'll notice that some of them have been gated to prevent traffic using them and some have been left open - there's very little consistency.

If there's ever an accident due to one of these lay-bys, the NRA may find itself having to answer some awkward questions.

JupiterKid

black francis wrote: »

donkey balls wrote: »

There is a petrol station/Mc Donalds at Roscrea and another station/Centra shop at Toomevara,It's a pain in the arse having to come of the motorway just to use a toilet etc.
One major gripe I have with the M7 is the lack of lay byes for the likes of trucks to pull over to take there rest period between jct 14 Mayfield and the Birdhill jct there is only two official lay byes that trucks/buses can use,Yet we hear the adverts on the radio by the RSA telling drivers to pull in when tired:mad: were would they like us to stop for a break?

The existing lay-bys on the motorway network were designed (and constructed in some cases) before the roads were 'upgraded' to motorway status.

These lay-bys do not have the appropriate merge/diverge tapers and really shouldn't be allowed on a motorway. You'll notice that some of them have been gated to prevent traffic using them and some have been left open - there's very little consistency.

If there's ever an accident due to one of these lay-bys, the NRA may find itself having to answer some awkward questions.

Agreed.

I think it would be a good idea for the NRA to uprgade and extend some of these laybys to French-style stops which don't have petrol or food services but do have parking for cars and lorries and picnic/toilet areas to allow motorway users to stop and take a rest/break/stretch their legs.

Frank Black

JupiterKid wrote: »

Agreed.

I think it would be a good idea for the NRA to uprgade and extend some of these laybys to French-style stops which don't have petrol or food services but do have parking for cars and lorries and picnic/toilet areas to allow motorway users to stop and take a rest/break/stretch their legs.

A good idea, but with Capital funding getting paired to the bone very unlikely in the current economic circumstances.

Any allocations the NRA are getting are either being used to pay for schemes already constructed but not yet closed off from a final account perspective, or is being used to fund minor re-alignment/pavement overlays and the non inter-urban/national secondary road network.

Bottom line - I wouldn't hold my breath for any additional services appearing on these schemes, unless they can be funded through a PPP type model.