A YES vote for Lisbon is a YES vote for ushering in the New World Order.

mysterious

King Mob wrote: »

Ok what exactly about the Lisbon treaty is Nazi-ish?
Please would a straight answer kill you?

More rules to create a one european government one nation basically.
if you agree to this politics, your opening this can of worms.


Remember my previous post, I suggest you read it again. They are again asking you to sign something they are creating.

ignorance is a bliss, if you can't understand this much I also suggest give up now.

Run_to_da_hills

King Mob wrote: »

Ok what exactly about the Lisbon treaty is Nazi-ish?
Please would a straight answer kill you?

Some of Nicolas Sarkozy comments about the Irish democratic vote would be a fine example of what you are looking for..

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

More rules to create a one european government one nation basically.
if you agree to this politics, your opening this can of worms.


Remember my previous post, I suggest you read it again. They are again asking you to sign something they are creating.

ignorance is a bliss, if you can't understand this much I also suggest give up now.

But the Lisbon treaty isn't going to create a one European government.
What can of worms?

King Mob

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Some of Nicolas Sarkozy comments about the Irish democratic vote would be a fine example of what you are looking for..

Care to quote them and explain why exactly they are relevant?

You actually read the treaty yet?

K-9

Kernel wrote: »

If I may interject at this point, I think the problem which many of us have with the Lisbon Treaty is not the treaty itself, rather it is a reaction against the centralisation of power in Brussels (which this Treaty is designed to streamline and facilitate) and the integration of national government into EUROSUPERSTATE. No single point of law within the Treaty is likely to be singled out, the people have become disillusioned with the NWO European SuperBloc. Why? I dunno, try inflation through the euro currency, immigration problems (ironically largely brought about by Irish national mismanagement) and whimical stories in Red Tabs about Brussels bureaucratic nonsense. The fact that the ECB would make silly decisions in raising interest rates at times when it was of no benefit (indeed, it was of detriment) to the Irish nation (do nations exist anymore?) demonstrated the problems with centralising control of a new world order of global cooperation.

While I disagree that inflation was caused by the Euro, I do agree immigration was made worse by our own mismanagement, not Nice necessarily.

The point about about raising Interest rates intriques me. We had a massive property bubble, it was the right thing for us, raising interest rates. It could have happened earlier but back to mismanagent, our Govt. kept property reliefs and doubled mortgage interest relief to counteract it. Madness! Raising interest rates was a good thing. We had a property bubble of our own making, not the ECB's.

Anyway, you've hit the nail on the head. Opposition to the EU is increasing as more power is handed over. That will continue until eventually the Irish say by a big majority, no more. No clarifications will change our mind. When that point will be is were I disagree. I think the benefits of Lisbon outweigh the advantages. There will come a Treaty that I think it has gone far enough.

mysterious wrote: »

Politicians are not giving up until we vote yes.

How about we don't want a super nazis europe. This treaty is the first of many, and they will NOT give up until this is the first treaty that is passed, for the next power surge treaty to come into fruition.

We can vote No in this Referendum or future ones. Anybody who tells you otherwise is lying.

Run_to_da_hills

King Mob wrote: »

Care to quote them and explain why exactly they are relevant?

You actually read the treaty yet?

Nicolas Sarkozy: Ireland must vote again on EU Lisbon treaty.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/2437817/Nicolas-Sarkozy-Ireland-must-vote-again-on-EU-Lisbon-treaty.html

Nicolas Sarkozy warns Ireland not to vote "No" again
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/daniel_hannan/blog/2009/01/26/nicolas_sarkozy_warns_ireland_not_to_vote_no_again


You couldn't find a better example of fascism than the above from the former EU President.

mysterious

K-9 wrote: »

We can vote No in this Referendum or future ones. Anybody who tells you otherwise is lying.

So the treaty is pretty much the same, and people still dont want a NWO Europe. I'm sorry but the fact the elite are pushing our country into a courner and telling our government to push for the yes agenda, is just really disturbing.

People just don't see the sinister side to this. Once lisbon is passed it opens doors for much more of this sign treaty balony. This is a reality now, and the elite do want more control over Europe.

What do you expect to happen, when we vote no again. Do you think they wil continue the scare tactics like

If you don't vote yes, there will be grave consquences for Ireland within the EU.

This is obvious, that the elte are using fear technique to push for this. This is what I really really do not like at all. It's a very valid point. The media bashing alone is enough to rattle anyones bones, on the actual behaviour of the European elite on this issue.

It's in my mind, that it is not acceptable nor should these politicians should ever be trusted.

It's not even No anymore. It's NO ****ing way on my vote.

King Mob

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Nicolas Sarkozy: Ireland must vote again on EU Lisbon treaty.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/2437817/Nicolas-Sarkozy-Ireland-must-vote-again-on-EU-Lisbon-treaty.html

You couldn't get a better example of fascism than the above from the former EU President.

You have no idea what you are talking about do you?
Even if out of context quotes where indicative of governmental policy, that is nowhere even close to facism.

mysterious

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Nicolas Sarkozy: Ireland must vote again on EU Lisbon treaty.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/2437817/Nicolas-Sarkozy-Ireland-must-vote-again-on-EU-Lisbon-treaty.html

Nicolas Sarkozy warns Ireland not to vote "No" again
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/daniel_hannan/blog/2009/01/26/nicolas_sarkozy_warns_ireland_not_to_vote_no_again


You couldn't get a better example of fascism than the above from the former EU President.

Right on.

Democracy, diplomacy, communication, compromise? are these not ever used now these days in politics?

Is it really a democracy.

Why do they want us to vote yes, when we said No.

Yes it is facism. And if this doesn't scare you, wait till the next treaty comes along. We will end up like what America is now. THe bankers want to have full control of this continent.

Welcome to the return of Rome, vs China/Russia vs America-bliderburg-Rockerfeller

3 superpowers up for the WW3.


But people insist that this treaty is just a treaty. Pffft. short sigthness and small mindness never fail to bewilder me.

Run_to_da_hills

King Mob wrote: »

You have no idea what you are talking about do you?
Even if out of context quotes where indicative of governmental policy, that is nowhere even close to fascism.

I have some Idea what Nicolas Sarkozy is talking about and thats enough to turn the stomach of anyone who supports democracy.

mysterious

King Mob wrote: »

You have no idea what you are talking about do you?
Even if out of context quotes where indicative of governmental policy, that is nowhere even close to facism.

So when the people say no?


Are we supposed to do another treaty and say yes? Can you tell me how this is democracy, if it's not facism.

I mean the government just said vote yes, and no reasons to for it. Just follow and believe us politicians. A arrogant frenchman from another country tells our government who represent us for a revote. Our government could of got their noses out of their asses and stand up to this.

Sarcosy DOES not represent Ireland, my country, or me in my country.

So he can take his facism **** somewhere else. Speaking of France,the people there also reject strongly to this treaty. But since they didnt' have a referendum, Sarcosy decides what happens.


Good jesus. Europe is not the interpretation, I believe it was first founded on. Same way America is not the same as it was first founded on too. Their constitution is heading for martial law.

K-9

mysterious wrote: »

So the treaty is pretty much the same, and people still dont want a NWO Europe.

Neither do I. I speak for myself, nobody else. I am not brainwashed by CT or NWO Theories, neither am I by politicians. I go on my gut and my logic. I don't blame the EU or NWO for everything that goes wrong in Ireland, some of it yes, but it isn't a scapegoat.

Mysterious wrote:

I'm sorry but the fact the elite are pushing our country into a courner and telling our government to push for the yes agenda, is just really disturbing.

I think my perception of pushing is different to yours then.

mysterious wrote:

People just don't see the sinister side to this. Once lisbon is passed it opens doors for much more of this sign treaty balony. This is a reality now, and the elite do want more control over Europe.

Why is Lisbon different to Nice, Maastricht, SEA etc.?

Mysterious wrote:

What do you expect to happen, when we vote no again. Do you think they wil continue the scare tactics like

If you don't vote yes, there will be grave consquences for Ireland within the EU.

This is obvious, that the elte are using fear technique to push for this. This is what I really really do not like at all. It's a very valid point. The media bashing alone is enough to rattle anyones bones, on the actual behaviour of the European elite on this issue.

It's in my mind, that it is not acceptable nor should these politicians should ever be trusted.

I don't know what will happen. I knew a re vote would happen if we voted No. If we vote no again, it is new territory for us.

mysterious wrote: »

So when the people say no?


Are we supposed to do another treaty and say yes? Can you tell me how this is democracy, if it's not facism.

It will be up to us to decide. Stay were we are, move forward or retract.

mysterious wrote:

I mean the government just said vote yes, and no reasons to for it. Just follow and believe us politicians.

Nope, unfortunately they spent most of their time debating lies, very effective lies, but lies nonetheless. Lies like taxation, neutrality etc. Instead of people educating themselves they believed the scaremongers.

mysterious wrote:

A arrogant frenchman from another country tells our government who represent us for a revote.

As we all know, that is all he is. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sarcosy DOES not represent Ireland, my country, or me in my country.

mysterious wrote:

So he can take his facism **** somewhere else. Speaking of France,the people there also reject strongly to this treaty. But since they didnt' have a referendum, Sarcosy decides what happens.

LOL, the irony is, Federal Referendums are banned in Germany exactly because of Fascism. Kind of puts this NWO in perspective. Better not Godwin.

mysterious wrote:

Good jesus. Europe is not the interpretation, I believe it was first founded on. Same way America is not the same as it was first founded on too. Their constitution is heading for martial law.

The EU is not America, thank God.

javaboy

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I have some Idea what Nicolas Sarkozy is talking about and thats enough to turn the stomach of anyone who supports democracy.

It turns my stomach more when people suggest that someone like Nicolas Sarkozy should be suppressed.

mysterious wrote: »

Are we supposed to do another treaty and say yes? Can you tell me how this is democracy, if it's not facism.

So just keep voting no then. For God's sake there are people out there who actually don't have democracy. If anything, the fact that we are being asked again is proof that we are living in a democracy. If we were living in a fascist state, they would have just pushed the changes to the constitution through without asking the people to approve them first.

It's insulting to people who actually suffer under fascist and oppressive regimes to call what we have fascism. "Oh no we're being asked to vote again? Whatever shall we do?" ....just keep voting no if that's what you want.

It may be annoying, but they simply can not change the constitution without public approval. Fascism? :rolleyes:

Sarcosy DOES not represent Ireland, my country, or me in my country.

Exactly. So what are you worried about?

So he can take his facism **** somewhere else.

Yeah you tell him. He can't be going around spouting opinions that don't agree with ours. Oh no wait... it's democracy you want isn't it?

mysterious

javaboy wrote: »

So just keep voting no then. For God's sake there are people out there who actually don't have democracy. If anything, the fact that we are being asked again is proof that we are living in a democracy.

ROFL.

Democracy would be our voice heard the first time not the second time. Don't give me this balony. They are pretending to be a democracy, if they went ahead without our vote at all, their would be riots. The government don't want to push for that now do they. Their agenda would be squanderd

If we were living in a fascist state, they would have just pushed the changes to the constitution through without asking the people to approve them first.

It is heading in the right direction for a fascist state. Just pass lisbon, and seeds in the pot are planted. When you plant seeds prepare for something to grow from it.

People think once Lisbon is passed, that everything will be hunky sweet gabory. But people dont like to look ahead and see what is going to happen as a result of this. Just stays like ostriches and keep our heads in the sand and everything will be just wonderful..

The shepards march us into the field, and there we stay.

It's insulting to people who actually suffer under fascist and oppressive regimes to call what we have fascism. "Oh no we're being asked to vote again? Whatever shall we do?" ....just keep voting no if that's what you want.

Our voice not heard or respected is actually more insulting. and your defending these politicians. Are away in the clouds.

And also Sarcosy telling our elected government by us, demanding a revote Is also very insulting.

Our own government were even not going to go ahead with a revote, but as we know, not sure if you know but we were bullied into a corner.

Not at all appropriate nor does it preach respect.

It may be annoying, but they simply can not change the constitution without public approval. Fascism? :rolleyes:

If they can create one, they can change it.

Dont bull**** me.

Exactly. So what are you worried about?

I'm not worried, I'm very annoyed that another french politicians dictates our country.

I'm sorry if this is the Europe we are heading into, I'm not apart of it.

I'm happy as Ireland governming as it is, and Europe as a economic union. Not the united Dumb states of Europe. Where will be sheep to shepards.

Yeah you tell him. He can't be going around spouting opinions that don't agree with ours. Oh no wait... it's democracy you want isn't it?

Wtf are you on about.

Who do you represent? Sarcosy?
I'm not french. I'm irish BTW.

Run_to_da_hills

javaboy wrote: »

It turns my stomach more when people suggest that someone like Nicolas Sarkozy should be suppressed.

He should have been more than suppressed, IE booted out of EU presidential power for coming out with such insulting statements against Irish democracy.

mysterious

K-9 wrote: »

The EU is not America, thank God.

But that is the goal and direction.

It will end up with three supowers AMERICA - CHINA/RUSSIA - SUPER EUROPE.

All dumb, everyone outside of this bracket, will be starving and poor, we wil be just be robots, sign the paper and follow the money.

But thats in the future. YOU decide your future NOW.

javaboy

mysterious wrote: »

Democracy would be our voice heard the first time not the second time.

Our voice was heard.
The government we voted in just did not like what it heard. In their opinion, it would be better for the country if Lisbon was passed. They have every right to put it to the country again. There's nothing undemocratic about it. In fact restricting the government from putting the treaty to a vote again would be more undemocratic. Especially so in light of polls which show a swing in support for the treaty.

Our voice will also be heard the second time by the way.

Don't give me this balony. They are pretending to be a democracy

How so? They aren't getting the answer they want and the only weapon in their arsenal is.... to ask again? Until the people support Lisbon, there's nothing they can do to implement it. Sounds like democracy to me.

if they went ahead without our vote at all, their would be riots.

They can't do that. It's not possible. Why even mention it? They cannot change the constitution without support of the people.

Our voice not heard or respected is actually more insulting. and your defending these politicians. Are away in the clouds.

I'm only defending them from accusations of being undemocratic. On everything else, I'm as anti-FF as the next man.

And also Sarcosy telling our elected government by us, demanding a revote Is also very insulting.

Yes maybe. But there is a huge difference between considering something insulting and actually wanting it to be suppressed.

If they can create one, they can change it.

Dont bull**** me.

No they can't. I can't put it any simpler than that. If you still believe that they can just change the constitution, then there's no further point discussing this with you.

I'm not worried, I'm very annoyed that another french politicians dictates our country.

He doesn't dictate anything. He can pressure out government to do something but at the end of the day, the decision is theirs not his. It's no different than Bono telling the US to cancel 3rd world debt. He's not dictating anything. He has no power over us. You don't have to like Sarkozy. You can take offence at him poking his nose in but as I said, the decision is our government's to take.

Wtf are you on about.

Who do you represent? Sarcosy?
I'm not french. I'm irish BTW.

What I'm on about is you're telling Sarkozy to take his fascism elsewhere. I think it's ironic that you're looking to suppress his right to express his opinions while simultaneously accusing him of fascism. It amuses me.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

He should have been more than suppressed, IE booted out of EU presidential power for coming out with such insulting statements against Irish democracy.

Why so? He is supposed to do the best job he can for the EU and its member countries. If he thinks the Irish people chose an option that is not the best, why shouldn't he pressure the government to run another referendum? He'd be neglecting his responsibilities not to.

Run_to_da_hills

mysterious wrote: »

But that is the goal and direction.

It will end up with three supowers AMERICA - CHINA/RUSSIA - SUPER EUROPE.

All dumb, everyone outside of this bracket, will be starving and poor, we wil be just be robots, sign the paper and follow the money.

But thats in the future. YOU decide your future NOW.

George Orwell was a way ahead of his time.

http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2007/01/22/66-the-world-in-george-orwells-1984/

Tech3

I have seen posts here asking what do we see wrong in the treaty. Coming from another perspective what is in the treaty that would make us vote yes on it. What does it offer to the people of Ireland? Theres obviously problems with it as other nations would be inclined to vote no on it also

mysterious

javaboy wrote: »

Our voice was heard.

It wasn't

When I say boo, and someone asks me what did I say and ask me to say it again.

It means they didn't hear my voice. I do hope this logic is clear to you.

Why so? He is supposed to do the best job he can for the EU and its member countries. If he thinks the Irish people chose an option that is not the best, why shouldn't he pressure the government to run another referendum? He'd be neglecting his responsibilities not to.

Whatever about his job, he like any politician is in it for himself. I wouldn't expect him to think about my place in the world.

I think about my place in the world just fine.

We are not children, I dont think politicians should dictate our lives, cus that is what your suggesting Sarcosy to do. He is a leader of another country, if he wants to blow up france that his decision to do so, and if the people don't stand up to it, they are stupid enough already to allow it to happen.

I live in this country, and no one dictates my reality, no leader or politician is responsible for my wellbeing on this earth.

But as your going into lala topics about Sarcosy and how detrimental if he didn't keep up to his responsbilities.

Your notions, are really coming acrosss strange to me considering it says your Irish on your profile and your more interested in defending Europe and Sarcosy. I really do find this alarming to why some are voting yes for Europe for the same reason.

Think this is enough for me today, I'm going to crack up now.:( I can't handle crazy stuff on here.

Kernel

mysterious wrote: »

Think this is enough for me today, I'm going to crack up now.:( I can't handle crazy stuff on here.

Perhaps you think too much mysterious. Go out and get langered, take a break from conspiracy thinking.

K-9

javaboy wrote: »

It turns my stomach more when people suggest that someone like Nicolas Sarkozy should be suppressed.

Excellent point. He does more harm than good but we still let him speak. He'll be gone soon anyway, that's the thing with elections!

Javaboy wrote:

So just keep voting no then. For God's sake there are people out there who actually don't have democracy. If anything, the fact that we are being asked again is proof that we are living in a democracy. If we were living in a fascist state, they would have just pushed the changes to the constitution through without asking the people to approve them first.

Exactly. To call this Fascism is a joke. We have SF, Libertas, Coir God love them etc. to argue their points.

mysterious wrote: »

ROFL.

Democracy would be our voice heard the first time not the second time. Don't give me this balony. They are pretending to be a democracy, if they went ahead without our vote at all, their would be riots. The government don't want to push for that now do they. Their agenda would be squanderd


It is heading in the right direction for a fascist state. Just pass lisbon, and seeds in the pot are planted. When you plant seeds prepare for something to grow from it.

People think once Lisbon is passed, that everything will be hunky sweet gabory. But people dont like to look ahead and see what is going to happen as a result of this. Just stays like ostriches and keep our heads in the sand and everything will be just wonderful..

The shepards march us into the field, and there we stay.

Our voice not heard or respected is actually more insulting. and your defending these politicians. Are away in the clouds.

And also Sarcosy telling our elected government by us, demanding a revote Is also very insulting.

Our own government were even not going to go ahead with a revote, but as we know, not sure if you know but we were bullied into a corner.

Not at all appropriate nor does it preach respect.

If they can create one, they can change it.

Dont bull**** me.


I'm not worried, I'm very annoyed that another french politicians dictates our country.

I'm sorry if this is the Europe we are heading into, I'm not apart of it.

I'm happy as Ireland governming as it is, and Europe as a economic union. Not the united Dumb states of Europe. Where will be sheep to shepards.

Here's an idea, vote No against the fascist state by ticking No on the ballot.

PS. Note you ignored my other points!

mysterious wrote: »

But that is the goal and direction.

It will end up with three supowers AMERICA - CHINA/RUSSIA - SUPER EUROPE.

All dumb, everyone outside of this bracket, will be starving and poor, we wil be just be robots, sign the paper and follow the money.

But thats in the future. YOU decide your future NOW.

Somebody needs to challenge the US and Russia. A strong EU will.

If only the French and Germans could have had a little bit of fascism on Ireland and the UK for Iraq.

I'm sure this point will be ignored as it doesn't fit in with the NWO.

javaboy

mysterious wrote: »

It wasn't

When I say boo, and someone asks me what did I say and ask me to say it again.

It means they didn't hear my voice. I do hope this logic is clear to you.

Except that's not what's happening here. A better analogy is somebody saying would you like a cup of tea? You say no. And they ask you again are you sure you wouldn't like a cup of tea?

It's not that they didn't hear our answer. It's that they don't like it. I hope that's clear to you.

We are not children, I dont think politicians should dictate our lives, cus that is what your suggesting Sarcosy to do. He is a leader of another country, if he wants to blow up france that his decision to do so, and if the people don't stand up to it, they are stupid enough already to allow it to happen.

Are you deliberately misinterpreting what I said? I'm not suggesting Sarkozy can or should be able to dictate our lives at all. I'm defending his right to express his opinion just as I'd defend your right to express yours.

Simple as that.

I live in this country, and no one dictates my reality, no leader or politician is responsible for my wellbeing on this earth.

So you live outside the law?

But as your going into lala topics about Sarcosy and how detrimental if he didn't keep up to his responsbilities.

I didn't say anything about it being detrimental. Again I don't think you're reading my post properly. I said he would be neglecting his responsibilities if he didn't try to get done what he thinks is good for Europe and its members.

Your notions, are really coming acrosss strange to me considering it says your Irish on your profile and your more interested in defending Europe and Sarcosy. I really do find this alarming to why some are voting yes for Europe for the same reason.

I haven't said I'm voting yes. As it happens I am. There may be future treaties where a similar situation arises but I will be on the No side. I would still hold the same opinions with respect to how democratic rerunning a referendum is.

The content of the treaty and how I intend to vote on it or why is actually irrelevant. I am solely debating the validity of running a second referendum and Sarkozy's right to comment on it.

P.S. Where in my profile does it say I'm Irish?

Think this is enough for me today, I'm going to crack up now.:( I can't handle crazy stuff on here.

Night.

Run_to_da_hills

javaboy wrote: »

Why so? He is supposed to do the best job he can for the EU and its member countries. If he thinks the Irish people chose an option that is not the best, why shouldn't he pressure the government to run another referendum? He'd be neglecting his responsibilities not to.

A unique decision to set up a dictatorship that totally undermines democracy. He has certainly made a good job of it and at this stage most Irish couldn't give a fiddlers about him or the EU after his insulting comments.

We represented Democracy in that treaty, not just for Ireland but for the whole Union.

You must not forget that due to our watertight Constitution we are the only nation to be given the choice on this issue. We will loose this privilage for ever should this poisonous document ever be ratified.

K-9

mysterious wrote: »

ROFL.

it is heading in the right direction for a fascist state. Just pass lisbon, and seeds in the pot are planted. When you plant seeds prepare for something to grow from it.

People think once Lisbon is passed, that everything will be hunky sweet gabory. But people dont like to look ahead and see what is going to happen as a result of this. Just stays like ostriches and keep our heads in the sand and everything will be just wonderful..

The shepards march us into the field, and there we stay.

Second time, why is Lisbon different from Nice, Maastricht, SEA Etc.

We seem to be getting good at this No crack for sheeple.

K-9

Why are the EU laughed at for indecision and bumbling?

Some NWO!

K-9

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

We will loose this privilage for ever should this poisonous document ever be ratified.

Article?

I might to be surprised or go back to ignoring you, the same as you do to everybody else.

mysterious

K-9 wrote: »

Second time, why is Lisbon different from Nice, Maastricht, SEA Etc.

We seem to be getting good at this No crack for sheeple.

Cus every action must never be the same, to carry out a purpose.

Like any agenda, different things and different objectives need at the given time. The next treaty suts the agenda of the current timing.

Why would they be the same.
One treaty leads onto the next step.
This is a step by step process, no step is ever the same. Do you understand this logic, good god?

javaboy

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

We represented Democracy in that treaty, not just for Ireland but for the whole Union.

Yes about 45% of the electorate of one small country blocking a treaty which affects 27 countries despite the majority of those countries already having ratified it is democratic.

Sounds pretty undemocratic to me. The elected* representatives of 18 countries out of 27 had already approved Lisbon yet one little country managed to veto it. You should be singing the praises of the EU that we have such great power.

*See that's where the democracy comes into it so don't argue that they didn't get their say. They voted in their respective governments.

You must not forget that due to our watertight Constitution we are the only nation to be given the choice on this issue. We will loose this privilage for ever should this poisonous document ever be ratified.

Are you trying to imply that the constitution is not watertight on this issue? If there was a way to get Lisbon passed without a referendum, you and I know that FF would have found it.

You haven't read the treaty. You are blindly taking other people's words that it is poisonous. They have their own agendas too you know.

mysterious

K-9 wrote: »

Somebody needs to challenge the US and Russia. A strong EU will.

If only the French and Germans could have had a little bit of fascism on Ireland and the UK for Iraq.

I'm sure this point will be ignored as it doesn't fit in with the NWO.

You just said the words. I'll translate it. You basically divided our race.

This is what I'm trying to stress out to you. We are constantly wanting to dominate and over power each other.

It's going to end up like another world war. We are going to have to wake up and realise we are all one, and the polticians and races of power want to divide us and fight each other and fight their wars and their agendas.

Excuse me in a minute, what are you implying about Iraq now?