TV's with MPEG4 DTT decoder

championc

watty wrote: »

These ones WILL work! and the "middleware" is MHEG5 so works!

99% correct Watty although you are most often 100%. The Caveat is Panasonic TV's which seem to be programmed around the UK D-Book spec rather than the ETSI spec. I have my fingers still crossed that the G20B will work but no looking very likely to be honest. Here's hoping that they may bring out an Irish version or else a Firmware upgrade.

BTW, is Freesat for UK only or is it legal for other countries to sell Freesat TV's ? I'm banking on the G20B for the Freesat HD tuner in addition to the DVB-T2 tuner

watty

It's legal to sell them. But "Freesat" and "Freeview" (two different organisations) can't market here.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

It's legal to sell them. But "Freesat" and "Freeview" (two different organisations) can't market here.

@Watty
By 'can't market here' do you mean are not allowed by their own rules, or cannot market here legally?

Also are Freesat branded goods allowed to be sold outside the UK? Is it a condition of the trademark that they only can be sold/marketed in the UK? For example, could Panasonic launch a version of the G20B that had Freesat enabled when the country code was not UK?

Lots of questions, sorry Watty.

watty

Their own internal rules.

I don't know what additional rules there are. But certainly it can only be Freesat/Freeview branded if you select UK as Country.

But since they have paid MPEG4, AAC and MHEG5 royalites they can have an Ireland option in software that is all the same features but without the Freeview/Freesat branding. Basically that was the loophole that Sat4free was using.

Volcane

My Sony CRT gave up and I wanted a replacement, I had thought about getting another stop gap CRT along with a Freeview HD set-top-box but decided that I would be better with a new TV!

After some research I went for a sony LCD 40ex503. The picture is just about OK and is certainly not as good as a CRT but the HD rte test picture is excellent and is really what the TV needs. I would have purchased a panasonic plasma if I could have been certain that it would continue to receive saorview correctly.

I must say that without the information provided on this forum I would have relied on the lack of knowledge displayed by people tryiing to sell TVs.

Thanks to all, esp Watty!!

STB

Freesat TV Combo's that were sold in Ireland (albeir N Ireland) do work for Dvb-t - outside the Panasonics who took a rigid view of allowing the dvb-t tuner only tune mpeg2 stations.

Whether they should be sold outside the country they operate in is down to control. Most retailers dont want to get involved in this debate. Some are selling Freeview branded products that most shouldnt be sold here!

Any Freeview HD/Freesat HD combo Tv should be okay but I wouldnt want to the first guinea pig.

For those combo's you may not have a country profile choice other than UK - specifically destined for UK.

Some will have E models which have the European profiles other than UK and will not have Freesat software ie 7 day epg. They probably wont have MHEG5 either as manufacturers havent turned on MHEG5 for Ireland despite the spec being out. Thats another issue.

So if you want 7 day epg for both buy the B (UK Freeview HD/Freesat model) as you will get it all.

championc

Anyone know if there is a G20E ? I downloaded and read the manual of the G20B and it certainly provides for tuning of the DVB-S tuner to satellites other than the 28.5E one of all the Freesat channels. So yes, you could happily use the satellite tuner. I know from the D25 (I think) that this works OK for MPEG-4.

Now for a question to those knowledgible folk - is MHEG-5 for the 7 day EPG or is it for Teletext - or both ? Without a 7 day EPG, do you get a now and next ? Mind you, a same day EPG would do me - I never looked at a schedule more than a couple of hours ahead.


C

watty

MHEG5 is for whatever they want...

Yes, it's used for EPG, but currently there is also DVB 5 or 7 day info also. No idea how long they will duplicate.

Yes, it's used for fancier text with photos (or even video) in it. At the minute a duplicate of Teletext. No idea how long they will support teletext.

It can do other stuff too, such as button to select a hidden video stream, interactive menus, interface to information via ethernet connector! They seem to have ambitions in this direction but not clarity in details. However it's supported and some TVs and Boxes have ethernet port.

It can provide animations and simple games or quiz

It can manage Over the Air Updates.

It can add channels to scan for transponders.

Sky box uses "Open TV" (not open ). Saorview and Freeview uses MHEG5, French TNT uses MHP.

They decided the basic Nordig 2.0 was not enough and additionally specified MHEG5 as the Middleware
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MHEG5

championc

Machinehead wrote: »

@ STB.
No response yet. Their last reply took a couple of weeks "due to technical problems". Their website & the manual, which they reiterate, says that the TV was only compatible with operational services in specific countries as of 01/01/2010, Ireland is not included & I don't think anything I say or do will alter their position on the fact that the TV is not guarenteed to work on any other systems. I guess that I will just have to hold out for an upgrade that I hope will activate MHEG5 functionality.

Any luck yet Machinehead ?

I might shift my attentions away from the G20B towards the D25L. There's certainly more chance of an "L" being resolved rather than any compatability being put into a possible G20L.

Or has anyone out there got a D25B ?


C

The Cush

watty wrote: »

MHEG5 is for whatever they want...

Yes, it's used for EPG, but currently there is also DVB 5 or 7 day info also. No idea how long they will duplicate.

There is no and has been no MHEG-5 epg on DTT. There was a few short green button tests previously, never fully active. It doesn't seem to be a priority for RTÉ. (infact there is no MHEG anything as I write)

I find the DVB-SI guide on the Sony TVs to be superior to the MHEG-5 epg tests. The UK's freeview has managed quiet well with the DVB-SI epg, the commercial MHEG-5 epgs weren't all that popular.

Machinehead

The model I have is the TX-L42D25L (Ireland Model). No response from Panasonic to my last email 05/10. It looks like Panasonic are going to leave things on the upgrade side alone until "Saorview" is up & running & out of the trial period. I can understand their position - why create upgrades for a system that is still "in a technical trial test period". Hopefully when RTÉNL are completely done, an upgrade might be forthcoming form Panasonic. As I have posted before, I bought the TV on the basis that it "worked for DTT" but in my own ignorance re MHEG5 it's totally useless, but I'm not the only one, in Tesco yesterday I saw many "digital" TV's for sale. Someone has got to step up to the mark & lay down some regulations on the sale of ALL new TV's available in Ireland.

Apogee

Machinehead wrote: »

The model I have is the TX-L42D25L (Ireland Model). No response from Panasonic to my last email 05/10. It looks like Panasonic are going to leave things on the upgrade side alone until "Saorview" is up & running & out of the trial period. I can understand their position - why create upgrades for a system that is still "in a technical trial test period". Hopefully when RTÉNL are completely done, an upgrade might be forthcoming form Panasonic. As I have posted before, I bought the TV on the basis that it "worked for DTT" but in my own ignorance re MHEG5 it's totally useless, but I'm not the only one, in Tesco yesterday I saw many "digital" TV's for sale. Someone has got to step up to the mark & lay down some regulations on the sale of ALL new TV's available in Ireland.

The specification for Saorview has been set and published with some considerable time. Panasonic know this but their customer support for Ireland is beyond useless.

Machinehead

Yeah I understand, but I've seen something on these threads about some tags, labels, service type coding or some kind of switching that RTÉNLL have yet to finalise that until done can mess up some Panasonic TV's.

Machinehead

Machinehead wrote: »

Yeah I understand, but I've seen something on these threads about some tags, labels, service type coding or some kind of switching that RTÉNLL have yet to finalise that until done can mess up some Panasonic TV's.

When the service type is defined in the transport stream as 0x16 the UK Panasonics don't tune them in, only when it's set at 0x01. I don't know what the service type is currently defined as, but if it is tuned in while at 0x01 and later changed to 0x16 it continues working, provided you never do a rescan again.

Apogee

Machinehead wrote: »

Yeah I understand, but I've seen something on these threads about some tags, labels, service type coding or some kind of switching that RTÉNLL have yet to finalise that until done can mess up some Panasonic TV's.

It wouldn't mess up the Panasonics if their firmware actually complied with the DVB standards they claim to comply with. The fault is entirely on Panasonic's side. The could update the firmware to patch the holes, but they simply don't care.

championc

Panasonic will just continue to confirm that UK models are for the UK market only and work perfectly correctly in that territory. Maybe the D25L has MHEG-5 and that it hasn't become fully evident yet given RTENL's lack of use of it so far ?

Just a question Machinehead, does the D25L have the Satellite connection ? I found details of a G20E yesterday (French) and Panny have removed the DVB-S from this Euro model.

Martynet

Hei guys,

I'm happy owner of TX-P50V10E TV and have a question... At the moment, I'm using just irish analog channels on my TV, cos when I bought it and searched for channels, that was all, TV found :-). That was actually first time I realized, that Ireland is a bit behind with DVB-T and it really suprised me... anyway, I found this topic and would like to dive in again as it seems that there is a bit of DVB-T here in Ireland :-) I live in Dublin, Sandyford... What do I need to get those channels working? Is there any special settings or custom firmware for Panasonic plazmas to make it work.
Thanks for any help
cheers

STB

Marty,

Its been on for the past 2 years!

Go to your digital tuner and scan its on 738 MHZ or UHF Ch 21.

You will have no problem getting in Sandyford.

As far as I know with the panasonics there is an option to scan analogue only so make sure you pick digital.

When you choose the source button on your remote it flicks between analogue and dvb-t

Martynet

thank you very much for quick answer STB. Definitely will try that. Do I need any special Antenna or can I use the plug in the wall I'm using now...
Also, I can have UPC, but their HD channel list is very poor and I can't have SKY, cos I'm not allowed to put any dish on the roof of my apartment building :-(

STB

Martynet wrote: »

thank you very much for quick answer STB. Definitely will try that. Do I need any special Antenna or can I use the plug in the wall I'm using now...
Also, I can have UPC, but their HD channel list is very poor and I can't have SKY, cos I'm not allowed to put any dish on the roof of my apartment building :-(

What is the plug in the wall ? Its not your UPC cable connection ? Or is it a feed from an aerial on the roof ?

An indoor UHF aerial positioned by the window may suffice. Connect it to the aerial in on TV. If you were getting half decent analogue then your DTT will be fine.

Machinehead

championc wrote: »

Panasonic will just continue to confirm that UK models are for the UK market only and work perfectly correctly in that territory. Maybe the D25L has MHEG-5 and that it hasn't become fully evident yet given RTENL's lack of use of it so far ?

Just a question Machinehead, does the D25L have the Satellite connection ? I found details of a G20E yesterday (French) and Panny have removed the DVB-S from this Euro model.

The D25L does not have a UK option in set up, mind you I didn't see any mention of MHEG5 in the D25B specs either. Not sure if the D25E has MHEG5.
The D25L is packed with connections. 4 HDMI, 2 Scart, 2 USB, LAN & CAM Slot. It also has DNLA, sweet for viewing pics & video streamed from laptop. It also has RF for VHF & UHF (DTT) & Satellite connection for a very pleasing picture on BBC HD & ITV HD. I found calibration settings online which work very well. If you want these settings go to - http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-tx-l42d25-tx-l42d25b-20100430437.htm

Machinehead

Karsini wrote: »

When the service type is defined in the transport stream as 0x16 the UK Panasonics don't tune them in, only when it's set at 0x01. I don't know what the service type is currently defined as, but if it is tuned in while at 0x01 and later changed to 0x16 it continues working, provided you never do a rescan again.

I understand this problem only applies to UK models, mine is the Ireland D25L model & a re-tune will only have problems on non Ireland models. Any idea where I can find which service type my Panny model is set up for.

championc

From others on here, they confirmed on Friday that we're still on 0x01.

I'm glad to hear that they have left the Satellite connection intact on this Irish version of this set. It may well be an option for me now - more expensive admitedly than the G20 was going to cost me. Maybe DID will have this model on sale at Christmas and I can queue up at 04:00am and join the scrum.

Martynet

that plug is used for analog tv, but when i had upc for a while, it was used for that too i think...

STB

Machinehead wrote: »

I understand this problem only applies to UK models, mine is the Ireland D25L model & a re-tune will only have problems on non Ireland models. Any idea where I can find which service type my Panny model is set up for.

You wont find it on your TV. There is no reason that all service types havent been defined on a European model. Service Types are included in the transport stream sent by the broadcaster, in this case RTE NL. At the moment its 0x1 which will even work on MPEG2 sets is being sent in the transport stream (but it wont help display the picture on an MPEG2 Tv - its only a flag for MPEG2). These flags are used to help non compliant IDTVs just ignore the MPEG4 broadcsts in a scan. It will change soon (to 0x16 and 0x19) I would think as it doesnt match what video codec RTE are broadcasting in (Advanced Codec SD for most and Advanced Codec HD on the Test Channel).

As has been said already:

The L model is the European model

The B model is the UK model

The B Model has MHEG5 by default.

The L model doesnt have MHEG5 tuned on by default in the Irish country profile. Our spec is out 2 and a half years. This TV is only on the market.

Martynet

Martynet wrote: »

that plug is used for analog tv, but when i had upc for a while, it was used for that too i think...

It's a disconnected upc socket then and will be no use as an aerial.
You'll have to buy one.

STB

Martynet wrote: »

that plug is used for analog tv, but when i had upc for a while, it was used for that too i think...

Are you sure its not a UPC only connection. Is it an apartment block ?

Anyway try a simple indoor UHF aerial first.

Martynet

it is an apartment block... it shouldn't be upc only, because I use it for standard analog at the moment and it works... if it doesn't, something like this will be ok? :
http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/5347919/Trail/searchtext%3EAERIAL.htm

watty

Argos have ZERO decent indoor aerials.
see http://www.techtir.ie/radio-tv/uhf-aerials

If you get Analogue that may be via UPCs analogue service, where some channels are not encrypted.

Machinehead

STB wrote: »

You wont find it on your TV. There is no reason that all service types havent been defined on a European model. Service Types are included in the transport stream sent by the broadcaster, in this case RTE NL. At the moment its 0x1 which will even work on MPEG2 sets is being sent in the transport stream (but it wont help display the picture on an MPEG2 Tv - its only a flag for MPEG2). These flags are used to help non compliant IDTVs just ignore the MPEG4 broadcsts in a scan. It will change soon (to 0x16 and 0x19) I would think as it doesnt match what video codec RTE are broadcasting in (Advanced Codec SD for most and Advanced Codec HD on the Test Channel).

As has been said already:

The L model is the European model

The B model is the UK model

The B Model has MHEG5 by default.

The L model doesn't have MHEG5 tuned on by default in the Irish country profile. Our spec is out 2 and a half years. This TV is only on the market.

Thanks for your response STB. What I still can't make out is the D25 compliant for the 0x16 and 0x19 service types? Are any of these now being used by RTÉNL? I can view all the channels now being shown on Saorview.