TV's with MPEG4 DTT decoder

jpogorman

Hello,

I'm new to a lot of the issues around DTT and am in the market for a new television. I was just wondering is there are any TV's out there that have MPEG4 decoders build into them so I would not have to get a seperate decoder when DTT goes fully live. Could anyone recommend a TV that they know has this decoder?

I was thinking of getting this TV but am nearly sure it does not support MPEG4...
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=348230&view=detailed#ProductTabs

Thanks,
JP

MODEDIT: STB has made a more recent list (19 Jan 09) of MPEG4 TV's here in this thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58664909&postcount=101

Zonda999

At the minute, very few tvs have an mpeg4 tuner built in. I'm guessing youre looking for a 40" tv for around 1000e. More or less your only option in that case is a W series Sony. One like this. For sure, this will pick up Irish DTT. Fantastic PQ on bluray too

jpogorman

Hi,

Thanks for confirming that. I think I will stick with my TV choice and get the decoder when they become available.

Thanks,
JP

The Cush

The following two ranges of Sony TVs are MPEG4 compatible according to the specs in their relevant manuals.

http://pdf.crse.com/manuals/3298243122.pdf
http://pdf.crse.com/manuals/4106868131.pdf

Powercity are advertising some of the Sony TVs from these manuals as being MPEG4 compliant, e.g. KDL-40W4000 - NEW IRISH MPEG4 DIGITAL TERESTERIAL TUNER, KDL-46W4500 - MPEG4 TUNER FOR IRISH DTT, KDL-32V4500 - MPEG4 FOR IRISH DTT RECEPTION.
There is no mention on the Sony Ireland website of any of its products being MPEG4 compliant when I last checked.

Philips Ireland website is also advertising some of its TVs as DVB Terrestrial, DVB-T MPEG4, DVB-C MPEG4 e.g. 42PFL9803H/10.

mullingar

The Panasonic PZ81 range with the built in Freesat has a MPEG4 DTT tuner.

The PZ81 has sizes 32" to 50".

Ring richersounds in Belfast for a quote, very cheap now with the £ being very weak!

kuro_man

mullingar wrote: »

The Panasonic PZ81 range with the built in Freesat has a MPEG4 DTT tuner.

The PZ81 has sizes 32" to 50".

Ring richersounds in Belfast for a quote, very cheap now with the £ being very weak!

++
According to reports, you can combine DTT channels with SAT channels on the EPG (favourites) on this TV so all the irish/uk fta channels together and no subs.

42" Plasma close to your budget and are highly regarded; See hdtvtest.co.uk - the only independent TV review site I trust (they ask for donations to buy TV's to test!).

scart

Heres a list of LCDs and plasmas available in the irish market that have MPEG4 tuners in them all under €2K.

Phillips 37PFL603H - €1190
Phillips 42PFL5603H - €1190
Phillips 47PFL7603H - €1590
Phillips 47PFL5603H- €1390
Panasonic TH42P281E - €1190
Panasonic TH46PZ81F - €1590
Panasonic TH50OPZ81E €2090
Samsung LE32A676 - €1249
Samsung LE40A568 - €1190
Samsung LE37A568 - € 990
Samsung LE46A568 - €1480
Sony KDL 40W4000E - €1290
Sony KDL 46W4000E - €1690
Sony KDL 32E4000 AEP- €1149
Sony KDL 324020AEP - €1190
Toshiba 37XV515DG - €899
LG 37LG5500 - €879

The Cush

scart wrote: »

Heres a list of LCDs and plasmas available in the irish market that have MPEG4 tuners in them all under €2K.

Phillips 37PFL603H - €1190
Phillips 42PFL5603H - €1190
Phillips 47PFL7603H - €1590
Phillips 47PFL5603H- €1390
Panasonic TH42P281E - €1190
Panasonic TH46PZ81F - €1590
Panasonic TH50OPZ81E €2090
Samsung LE32A676 - €1249
Samsung LE40A568 - €1190
Samsung LE37A568 - € 990
Samsung LE46A568 - €1480
Sony KDL 40W4000E - €1290
Sony KDL 46W4000E - €1690
Sony KDL 32E4000 AEP- €1149
Sony KDL 324020AEP - €1190
Toshiba 37XV515DG - €899
LG 37LG5500 - €879

Also Sony KDL-26V4500 (I have one) €739.95/€604.00

mullingar

scart wrote: »

Panasonic TH50OPZ81E €2090

Where did you get that price from?

If you meant the TH50PZ81, its £1,450 in Richersounds, or at todays exchange rate ~ € 1720

Zonda999

I dunno if many people have noticed but lately, on pixmania.ie, theyve been listing a whole load of tvs that only seem to be available on pixmania. They are all able to show "TNT HD".I believe this is French Freeview in HD. Afaik this is mpeg4, and, because of this, any TNT HD tv should be able to show Irish DTT. Am i right??

Here, is a list of all pixmania's TNT HD lcds, in increasing order of price. That Philips 32" is about 575 incl delivery.

byte

I think this thread might be a good resource, so I'm going to sticky it for now.

The Cush

Zonda999 wrote: »

I dunno if many people have noticed but lately, on pixmania.ie, theyve been listing a whole load of tvs that only seem to be available on pixmania. They are all able to show "TNT HD".I believe this is French Freeview in HD. Afaik this is mpeg4, and, because of this, any TNT HD tv should be able to show Irish DTT. Am i right??

Here, is a list of all pixmania's TNT HD lcds, in increasing order of price. That Philips 32" is about 575 incl delivery.

The French DTT (TNT) standard is DVB-T/MPEG2 for the FTA SD channels, DVB-T/MPEG4 for the Pay SD channels, for the 4 FTA HD channels (TF1 HD, France 2 HD, M6 HD, Arte HD), for 1 Pay HD channel (Canal+ HD).
The difference is the interactive standard France had planned to use the MHP standard (on hold due to royalty issues), the UK and Ireland standard is MHEG5.

So if the tv is French TNT and UK freeview compatible it should decode MPEG4 and display an EPG in MHEG5.

The Sony range of MPEG4 televisions appear to be compatible with DTT standards across Europe, if you see one of their TV's on display in a shop a sticker on the tv displays the logos of the various national DTT organisations, including TNT and freeview with which the tv is compatible.

BTW: there is no name or logo for Irish DTT yet, anyone care to start a thread for suggestions :rolleyes: - might be cheaper than an expensive government contract in these cash strapped times, Minister Eamon Ryan might be browsing.

Zonda999

Right...so you're saying they should work but there's no guarantee. I was looking at gettin a 720p mpeg4 32"(About 600e) but i think i'll just get a sony 40w4000 afterall. Thats workin out at only 870e at the moment and for that i'm gettin a top brand 1080p tv that will definitely work with Irish DTT.

The Cush

Before any official launch and national promotion campaign no one is going to definitely guarantee that any MPEG4 tv on the shelves today will work with the future Irish DTT system, but posters are using these tvs to receive the current engineering tests.

John Dough

Zonda999 wrote: »

Right...so you're saying they should work but there's no guarantee. I was looking at gettin a 720p mpeg4 32"(About 600e) but i think i'll just get a sony 40w4000 afterall. Thats workin out at only 870e at the moment and for that i'm gettin a top brand 1080p tv that will definitely work with Irish DTT.

That model is listed at 999 in Pixmania plus delivery so where is it at that price mate?

John Dough

mullingar wrote: »

The Panasonic PZ81 range with the built in Freesat has a MPEG4 DTT tuner.

The PZ81 has sizes 32" to 50".

Ring richersounds in Belfast for a quote, very cheap now with the £ being very weak!

Something funny there 'cos was in H normans 2 days ago and no 81s in stock so he rang Panny Irl and they said that model 81 does NOT have mpeg4 tuner built in and they won't be selling it here so went over to Argos and they had it crossed off their catalogue also .

Does anyone have this Z81 freesat model and perhaps they could confirm or deny this information.

fletch

Anyone know of any smaller tvs (around 22inch) which have an MPEG4 decoder???

Zonda999

John Dough wrote: »

That model is listed at 999 in Pixmania plus delivery so where is it at that price mate?

Right Here

The Cush

fletch wrote: »

Anyone know of any smaller tvs (around 22inch) which have an MPEG4 decoder???

The smallest I could find in the Sony range was 26" incl. the Sony France website where there is MPEG4 broadcasting.
Televisions smaller than 26" might take some time to appear, e.g. in France all television sets (below 26") and set-top boxes must include an HD/DTT (MPEG4) tuner by 1 December 2012.

HD tuner mandate delayed
Manufacturers have been given an additional year before the requirement to include an MPEG-4 AVC HD tuner in all HD displays comes into force.
Initially, the mandate was to start on the 1st December 2008, however, legislative changes made in August, now require television sets larger than 66cm (26 inches) to include an HD/DTT receiver as of the 1st December 2009.
In addition, all television sets and set-top boxes must include an HD/DTT tuner by 1 December 2012.
Source: LegiFrance (translation thanks to Digitag)
Item added: 9th September 2008
http://www.dvb.org/about_dvb/dvb_worldwide/france/

mullingar

John Dough wrote: »

Something funny there 'cos was in H normans 2 days ago and no 81s in stock so he rang Panny Irl and they said that model 81 does NOT have mpeg4 tuner built in and they won't be selling it here so went over to Argos and they had it crossed off their catalogue also .

Does anyone have this Z81 freesat model and perhaps they could confirm or deny this information.

It was on the page 3 of the thread titles!

:Confirmed: Panasonic 50PZ81 working with Irish MPEG4 DTT (pics attached)

STB

scart wrote: »

Heres a list of LCDs and plasmas available in the irish market that have MPEG4 tuners in them all under €2K.

Phillips 37PFL603H - €1190
Phillips 42PFL5603H - €1190
Phillips 47PFL7603H - €1590
Phillips 47PFL5603H- €1390
Panasonic TH42P281E - €1190
Panasonic TH46PZ81F - €1590
Panasonic TH50OPZ81E €2090
Samsung LE32A676 - €1249
Samsung LE40A568 - €1190
Samsung LE37A568 - € 990
Samsung LE46A568 - €1480
Sony KDL 40W4000E - €1290
Sony KDL 46W4000E - €1690
Sony KDL 32E4000 AEP- €1149
Sony KDL 324020AEP - €1190
Toshiba 37XV515DG - €899
LG 37LG5500 - €879

The thing about that list when I originally posted ALSO pointed out that you make sure to buy the model outside the country because it seems unclear whether or not there are variations of models between countries. So in the case of the list above was compiled from research done on the availability of TVs using the french market.

It is highly likely that the Irish suppliers are not stocking them anyway. It is far easier to stock the wrong products warehoused in the UK, destined for the UK market but sold here for convenience, without consideration for the consumer.

Scart: When lifting someone else's post the next time perhaps you could lift the whole post that way the meaning wont be lost. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=57679355

scart

Apologies STB......

STB

No worries. Just had visions of people trying to source these in Ireland (which probably is difficult at this moment in time) and if succesful perhaps purchasing an mpeg2 model.

tadgh

Can anyone confirm if the Sony KDL-26V4500 has an MPEG4 digital tuner

STB

YES. Make sure that wherever you buy it that the manual says so in the Technical spec booklet.

http://www.sony.lv/product/t15-v-series/kdl-26v4500/tab/technicalspecs

The Cush

tadgh wrote: »

Can anyone confirm if the Sony KDL-26V4500 has an MPEG4 digital tuner

See my previous post (#4) in this thread for the manual.

John Dough

mullingar wrote: »

It was on the page 3 of the thread titles!

:Confirmed: Panasonic 50PZ81 working with Irish MPEG4 DTT (pics attached)

Ok cheers mate only problem is no VHF tuner in the UK sets so having a look at the Sony 40inc W models which have a full band tuner but no HD receiver but as the Hummy HD models are coming with PVRs built in now they would be a better add on than the Panny and the Sony sets are cheaper.
I was in Power C and they want 1349 for the 40 W model but only 900 on the net.

TheDriver

Most people don't need vhf tuners anyways, if your reception comes in as uhf then a uk set is fine if it tunes analog.
If it tunes digital, is it correct to say it automatically tunes uhf analog?

John Dough

TheDriver wrote: »

Most people don't need vhf tuners anyways, if your reception comes in as uhf then a uk set is fine if it tunes analog.
If it tunes digital, is it correct to say it automatically tunes uhf analog?

I have to disagree with you there mate as thousands of households are receiving their analogue signal in VHF on cable systems and set top aerials at the moment so they NEED VHF/UHF tuners.

If the TV has DVB-T digital it receives those signals on the UHF band on the Irish test and on the N.I. freeview service.Some countries do use the VHF for DVB-T also but have not heard anything about Ireland using it but you never know as the analogue VHF signals are much stronger and robust than UHF here.

The Cush

5 main transmitters are broadcating RTE1/2 in VHF and will do so until switchover in 2012.

VHF Band III (7 MHz) is part of the Irish DTT standard and was allocated 1 national VHF mux at GE06 but probably will not use it and may be converted to a DAB allocation.

Back in 2004 the following was the position of Comreg on VHF Band III for TV in response to a Dept of Comms consultation

2.2 UHF Bands IV & V (470 to 862 MHz) & VHF Band III (174 to 230MHz).

1). While DTT will obviously be planned in the UHF band, should consideration be made for DTT in the VHF Band III or should this be the sole preserve of DAB?
If you feel both should be developed please specify your reasons.

Response:
ComReg is of the considered opinion that the VHF Band III should continue to be allocated to the broadcasting service and used for digital sound and digital
television services.

Reasons:
The VHF Band III is currently used for analogue television transmissions and whatever digital service(s) is introduced, the consumer will have to purchase a new digital receiver or adaptor. A single receiver capable of receiving any service broadcast in this band, be it audio, television or data would be in the best interests of the consumer, facilitate competition and optimise spectrum use in this band.

If the band is planned for DVB-T in 8 MHz wide channels then it will be possible to use the multiplex to deliver a combination of services including broadcasting and data. These services could include the traditional broadcast content as well as any other services that fit onto the multiplex or use the DVB-T channel spacing.

DVB systems have been established in Europe since 1998. Already consumer equipment is available, costing less than dedicated DAB receivers that provide sound broadcasting services, television broadcast and data streams using DVB-T. Large numbers of receivers have been purchased in the last year for DVB-T services in the UK and Germany. The ‘Freeview’ service available in the UK is one example where the consumer equipment is already available for less than £80 Sterling (approximately €125).

Until the mid 1990’s VHF Band III provided substantial coverage for analogue television services using the main transmitter stations and relatively few transposer stations. Provision of national coverage of digital television services in VHF Band III is likely to require considerably less infrastructure than in the UHF bands.

The cost of rolling out a DAB-only network has slowed the introduction of DAB by broadcasters and the relatively high cost of DAB receivers has mitigated against consumer take up where DAB services are operated. On the other hand radio services delivery via DVB-T may not have such constraints and radio services would only need to contribute a fraction of the cost of
developing such a network.

Newer technologies will better utilise the spectrum and deliver a variety of services including television. This would be potentially more attractive to consumers, leading to take up by consumers and achieving the goals set by Government.

KrisW

... all Philips model numbers ending in H are for MPEG-4 ready sets. Models ending with D have only an MPEG-2 tuner.

This is the full model number, which isn't often publicised on shop displays. For example, the 37PFL9603 model is available in two versions:

e.g. 37PFL9603/10D is NOT compatible
e.g. 37PFL9603/10H IS compatible

If you're in a shop, ask for the full product number (it'll be on the box sticker)
Online, you should be able to see the full product model number.

... and the H version will be about €100 more expensive than the plain D one

STB

Actually Kris its the opposite way round. The Mpeg4 version is cheaper than the Mpeg2. Its a common misconception that MPEG4 is dearer. Much the same.


THE MPEG2 and WRONG VERSION FOR IRISH DTT MARKET
Philips 37" LCD-TV 37PFL7603D/10 --Full HD, Ambilight, DVB-T, Pixel Plus
Image
Price and availability (komplett.ie) € 1,106.99(€ 1,098.99 + € 8.00 PRF*)

THE MPEG4 and RIGHT VERSION FOR IRISH DTT MARKET

Philips - 37PFL7603H/10 - Téléviseur LCD 37" - 16/9 - Full HD 1080p - TNT HD intégrée - Pixel+3HD - HDNM - Ambilight - stéréo 2x15 W - 30 000:1 - 5 ms - HDMI - USB
de Philips Prix : EUR 969,96 plus EUR 49,90 de frais de livraison
http://www.amazon.fr/gp/offer-listing/B0018SCK60/ref=dp_olp_2/403-1884509-1594053

As soon as phillips perhaps change there Irish website to feature products that should be sold here rather than just transpose the UK site to the IE the better for the consumer and no doubt the retailer, because they DO have the products as evidenced from the French version of their site.

http://www.consumer.philips.com/consumer/en/ie/consumer/cc/_categoryid_TV_CA_IE_CONSUMER/

http://www.consumer.philips.com/consumer/fr/fr/consumer/cc/_categoryid_TV_CA_FR_CONSUMER/

TheDriver

John Dough wrote: »

I have to disagree with you there mate as thousands of households are receiving their analogue signal in VHF on cable systems and set top aerials at the moment so they NEED VHF/UHF tuners.


.

Indeed lots do get VHf but also lot get UHF only so the common misconception that UK tvs don't work here is incorrect, once someone has checked they use uhf where they live and the tv has a uhf tuner, then they are on the pigs back!

Scottish paddy

Is it not scandalous that we have to have this thread? The government/Comreg, once the Irish DTT standard was decided, should have notified manufactures and retailers, and also after a certain date prohibited the import of television sets with tuners that will never work on the Irish system. Consumers are being allowed to purchase expensive sets at the moment only to have to replace the tuner (with a STB) in a year or two when it could have been avoided!
We urgently need a logo for Irish DTT (like Freeview, which is plastered all over new sets in the UK) to let Irish consumers know that what they are buying today will be compatible in the future.
May I suggest something like: Digi 4for you. Or Digi 4Ireland. There should be prominent use of the figure 4 to emphasize MPEG4 (and differentiate from UK MPEG2 sets).
Emails to Comreg, Dept. Comms?

TheDriver

Very good Scottish Paddy, such a small manufacturing change wouldn't be a massive deal and would ensure better play for people purchasing tvs. Scandulous is right and its even difficult to establish what decoder is in tvs, e.g. panasonic z81 series according to pana can't decode mpeg4 yet people here can get current transmissions (which i presume is due to the sat decoder having mpeg4 and possibly doing the decoding for terrestrial also)

BeerNut

"MPEG4: To be sure. To be sure".

TheDriver

Its gas how people are paying big money for sets to future proof yet don't have the mpeg4, the most important future proof part!
Having said that, most people will have sky inputting and never have an aerial

Mossy Monk

Surely if the tv has a scart socket then it is future proofed.

STB

Scottish paddy wrote: »

Is it not scandalous that we have to have this thread? The government/Comreg, once the Irish DTT standard was decided, should have notified manufactures and retailers,

They did.

Capt'n Midnight

Scottish paddy wrote:

May I suggest something like: Digi 4for you. Or Digi 4Ireland. There should be prominent use of the figure 4 to emphasize MPEG4 (and differentiate from UK MPEG2 sets).
Emails to Comreg, Dept. Comms?

MPEG4for you ?

Glenbhoy

TheDriver wrote: »

Its gas how people are paying big money for sets to future proof yet don't have the mpeg4, the most important future proof part!
Having said that, most people will have sky inputting and never have an aerial

I was wondering about that myself, at the moment it doesn't seem likely that we'll have digital transmission for quite some time, and even when we do, what will be available on it? Will we not still be subscribing to various providers anyway?

mumhaabu

Mossy Monk wrote: »

Surely if the tv has a scart socket then it is future proofed.

Its HDMI nowadays I believe and there different versions with 1.3x being the latest x represent several a-c specifications available so it is also unfriendly to your average joe soap who has only two brain cells dedicated to technology.

Mossy Monk

HDMI is an option but I bet all set top boxes will have scart sockets.

a bientot

Over the past few days a glut of companies have (re)launched their MPEG4 tv sets in France and references to HD has been removed from ALL sets UNLESS the tv set IS an MPEG4 .....the new sign is HDTV.
There are no end of articles appearing in the specialist press in France.....example below:

http://www.numerama.com/magazine/11446-Televiseurs-le-HD-Ready-est-mort-vive-les-HDTV-et-HDTV-1080p.html

See the continually being updated list of HDTV sets......
Pixmania.fr is selling tv Philips tv sets more cheaply than in the U.K. even with VAT at 20.5 against the U.K.'s 15%. Some sets I note are 'out of stock' on the U.K. webpage.....

The interest is increasing here also ... a far cry from a thread I started in 2007 advising all to wait for MPEG4 tv sets. At that time I was told that literally everyone in Ireland was on cable or dish so this advice was deemed totally irrelevant.

Henceforth anyone interested in buying a brand new tv set (MPEG2), generally available in Ireland, should negotiate the price downwards.....

Myxomatosis

Right so I'm looking to get a HD LCD TV before or after Christmas.

The ultimate holy grail would be an MPEG4 DVB-T set with built in FreeSat tuner for under 1000 but that's probably a very long shot.

Was just wondering about the whole middleware aspect of it. Anyone have an option on a model or brand which would be best able to handle the EPG and interactivity? Models with upgradable firmwares etc?

Is it worth spending a few hundred quid extra to get the DVB-T MPEG4 model (which may not support the full EPG / interactivity)

or go with a standard model and use the saved money to get the proper set top box once it comes out?

Zonda999

You could get a tv with freesat 1080p tv with mpeg4 for under 1000e. The Panasonic '81 range include all this. They used to only come in plasma but now, theyve extended it to lcd too. The 32" lcd(Still 1080p) should be around 850e and the 37" should be around 950e. The 42" plasma is around 1100e

TheDriver

I'd say the 37" is more 1000 mark at least to be honest from my calculations, 32" is 850 ish, depending on exchange rate. 5 year warranty at moment makes them seem a great buy, awaiting delivery of my 32"

TheDriver

Myxomatosis wrote: »

Right so I'm looking to get a HD LCD TV before or after Christmas.

The ultimate holy grail would be an MPEG4 DVB-T set with built in FreeSat tuner for under 1000 but that's probably a very long shot.

Was just wondering about the whole middleware aspect of it. Anyone have an option on a model or brand which would be best able to handle the EPG and interactivity? Models with upgradable firmwares etc?

Is it worth spending a few hundred quid extra to get the DVB-T MPEG4 model (which may not support the full EPG / interactivity)

or go with a standard model and use the saved money to get the proper set top box once it comes out?

Yours guess is as good as ours. Some tvs come with mpeg4 (some unconfirmed officially but people can pick it up). If you can get it for the same price, then why not but if it costs a good bit more then don't bother. Depends on type of tv wanted, z81 from panasonic appears to have it along with a HD freesat satellite tuner so lots of your money if you want free channels, sony W seems to also have it but again beware when buying.

Zaphod

Panasonic 32LZD81 £681/€800
http://www.flattelly.co.uk/shop/panasonic-tx32lzd81-freestat-full-1080p-p-2539.html

Panasonic 37LZD81 £754/€887
http://www.teleworldplc.com/model.asp?Detail=Yes&ModelID=751&Show=2&tduid=665dec74ad998d5b93bcbc87755fd006

Zonda999

Zaphod wrote: »

Panasonic 37LZD81 £754/€887
http://www.teleworldplc.com/model.asp?Detail=Yes&ModelID=751&Show=2&tduid=665dec74ad998d5b93bcbc87755fd006

Hom much is delivery over here on that one??

christo82

What does the TNT logo on this TV mean? I know TNT is French TV but it doesn't mean it has a built in mpeg4 tuner(according to the sony website it only has mpeg2)?

Anyone bought this TV? It is €669 in Tesco at the moment with an additional 30% back in Clubcard vouchers(€469).