TV's with MPEG4 DTT decoder

Pangea

Yes I noticed on powercitys website a few days ago the saorview logo, lets hope they start rolling out the logos nationwide now.

pigeon1916 wrote: »

I bought the 403 today in Power City. I got it off them just below the Argos price.
Very happy with the purchase. Picked up all the Irish DTT channels with no problems.

Does that come with a warranty? Im not familar with Power citys service. Sounds like a good deal on the price well done.

zdooldreb

I have read through most of this thread and it has been very helpful.
I'm looking to buy a new 22-24 inch TV that will double as a PC monitor. I made the following list requirements for myself.

22 -24 Inch
DVB-T/Mpeg 4
PC Connector VGA
*2 Scart connectors
*2 HDMI connectors
USB connector
Mpeg 5 (not a major factor)
I have been looking at LG and Samsung. They don't meet all the requirements mainly the number of connectors. Also im not positive the Tuners in these are compatible in Ireland (Mpeg 4). Can anyone confirm that they are? Can anyone provide any better alternatives?

Lastly, can the same model TV have different Tuners in different countries? E.g. Could the 22LD320 have and Mpeg 2 Tuner in England and the same 22LD320 have an MPEG 4 tuner in Ireland? The reason I ask is this could mess things up if ordering off amazon.co.uk.
Thanks.

watty

Yes, the same basic model can be different, indicated by a letter or digit. This has been true maybe 35 years ...

These are TNT HD, so do have MPEG4, but MHP instead of MHEG5 as they are for French market. I'd not assume that MHEG5 (not Mpeg5) isn't a major factor.

Unless you are going to do all TV viewing less than 1.2m or all PC viewing more than 1.2m, a screen for PC and TV is an awkward compromise.

"HD Ready" often means PC WXGA of 1366 x 768. Which indeed these both are. My experience is that 22" is a bit large for "only" 1366 x768 WS on PC unless it's mostly for games and that 1366 x768 "HD Ready" is minimum for ordinary SD TV, especially Analogue and Cable due to aliasing issues, but poor for actual HD which is 1440 x1080 or 1920 x 1080, but then 22" is very small for HD unless you are only about 1.2m / 4' viewing distance. 37" is really a minimum for HD in an average room.

Conclusion:
These are good size for PC game play and do support MPEG4, but lack MHEG5 which may be more important than you think. If you only want to watch Odd TV program on the basic Channels in Kitchen /Study/Bedsit it may be a reasonable purchase.

If you want a "main" TV for Living room and not miss out, then get 36" "Full HD" or larger set with "Freeview HD" (UK, not an HD set with basic Freeview) or Saorview logo, rather than HD Ready "TNT HD" (French).

zdooldreb

Thanks for the reply Watty.
I would be using it primarily as a PC monitor but not really for gaming.
Do you mean all PC viewing more than 1.2 meters away? If so can I adjust the TV to be more suitable for PC viewing within 1.2m?
To use as a PC monitor I should be looking for a resolution of 1440 x1080 or 1920 x 1080?
What advantage does mheg5 provide?
Once all letters and numbers are the same then the features should be exactly the same in all countries, correct?

watty

Depends what sort of work you do

If it is mostly A4 Documents, then 18" 1920x 1200 (16:10) or 16" 1600x1200 (4:3) is best.

1366 x 768 is best about 15" as a PC monitor non-gaming. 22" @ 1366x768 is too low a resolution for PC work unless gaming.

If you want mostly PC and some TV, then look for 17" to 22" 1920 x 1080 or 1920 x 1200

Doodah7

pigeon1916 wrote: »

I bought the 403 today in Power City. I got it off them just below the Argos price.
Very happy with the purchase. Picked up all the Irish DTT channels with no problems.

Pangea wrote: »

Does that come with a warranty? Im not familar with Power citys service. Sounds like a good deal on the price well done.

Picked up the 403 in Powercity yesterday. They are doing (through Sony) a FIVE year warranty on this TV. Apparently the warranty offer expires the end of this month (31st). Rather pay the tenner extra for the warranty.

pigeon1916

tallpaul wrote: »

Picked up the 403 in Powercity yesterday. They are doing (through Sony) a FIVE year warranty on this TV. Apparently the warranty offer expires the end of this month (31st). Rather pay the tenner extra for the warranty.

Same as Tallpaul, You get 1 year from Power City and they give you a Sony form with the Power City stamp on it to post away, this gives you the extra 4 years to make up 5.

Just ask for the tenner off. The sales person should give you that.
Another tip, I was buying more than one item off power city and I made what I thought was a very reasonable offer to the sales guy, But he would not accept it. I went home and emailed Power City online with the same offer. Within 5 mins I had a call back accepting the offer. I went back to the store with my money and the transaction # they emailed me and collected my Items.:)

Pangea

Sounds great guys,
However seeing as powercity is on the other side of the country to me ,if my tv did break down, how would i go about getting it fixed?
Im guessing powercity would have to collect it , and I wonder at whos expense would that be? thats my only concern.
I feel more comfortable with a walk in shop near my location. Handiness is important.

Pangea

The argos 40EX403 went up by 300 euro today. 401 is way up too.

pigeon1916

Pangea wrote: »

The argos 40EX403 went up by 300 euro today. 401 is way up too.

WOW! That is some difference.
I would imagine that they bumped up the price so they can have it back on sale before Christmas.

I think that by law, They have to have it on sale at one price for a certain amount of days before the can legally say it is now on sale at a 30% discount.

I just checked the Power City web site and it is still €599 and my local Sony shop are looking for over €700.

Pangea

Indeed it is a big difference, they had it at the lower price for the past 2 weeks now ,its gone up to its orignal price again.
My local sony has the 403 at 790 euro, but Sony are now starting give vat back promotion , you will get 21% sent back in cheque .So that should take a bit off the price.
Not sure where to buy mine, every shop has different prices , even some of the sony centres prices vary a lot .
Think Il go with the EX401, It probably has better lag for gaming than the EX403 because its a bravia engine 2.

aldente

Pangea wrote: »

Indeed it is a big difference, they had it at the lower price for the past 2 weeks now ,its gone up to its orignal price again.
My local sony has the 403 at 790 euro, but Sony are now starting give vat back promotion , you will get 21% sent back in cheque .So that should take a bit off the price.
Not sure where to buy mine, every shop has different prices , even some of the sony centres prices vary a lot .
Think Il go with the EX401, It probably has better lag for gaming than the EX403 because its a bravia engine 2.

It's worthwhile to check over different Sony Centre shops since they are franchised (not owned by Sony) in Ireland, which means that there's a chance that any keen one of them might give you a better price than another.

aldente

zdooldreb wrote: »

Once all letters and numbers are the same then the features should be exactly the same in all countries, correct?

Regarding models from country to country, I would suggest checking the relevant pdf user manuals and brochures for the exact specs as well as asking questions in forums. If you do not see a model in Ireland which is one of the mainstream models in the UK or another European country, there is usually a reason behind as to why it is not distributed over here, which may not manifest itself in catalogue numbers.
That's my 2 cents.

BArra

does anyone have an LG 42PJ550, available from currys and pcworld?

trying to find out does it have mpeg4 for the irish dtt but cannot find a definitive answer from the web, their spec sheet and pdf dont seem to tell you what it has either..

http://www.lg.com/uk/tv-audio-video/televisions/LG-plasma-tv-42PJ550.jsp

championc

aldente wrote: »

Regarding models from country to country, I would suggest checking the relevant pdf user manuals and brochures for the exact specs as well as asking questions in forums. If you do not see a model in Ireland which is one of the mainstream models in the UK or another European country, there is usually a reason behind as to why it is not distributed over here, which may not manifest itself in catalogue numbers.
That's my 2 cents.

I have a feeling that many models never got here in the past because of the need for VHF tuners for people on Cablelink or UPC. Many UK models were treaked to drop a UHF tuner and replace it with a VHF one. Obviously, if you only had an aerial and maybe a dish, UK TV's were perfect. However, due to Irish DTT using MPEG-4, then many UK models will no longer suit although, as has been widely covered on here, a safer bet is any with the French TNT HD logo.

watty

No, now that HD Terrestirial has started in UK, a "Freeview HD" box/TV is MUCH better option than a French TNT HD (MHEG5 vs MHP). Also when ASO occurs in N.I. more people can get UK, than today from Divis and Brougher. Wales is now much better in South East than it was for Analogue.

copacetic

BArra wrote: »

does anyone have an LG 42PJ550, available from currys and pcworld?

trying to find out does it have mpeg4 for the irish dtt but cannot find a definitive answer from the web, their spec sheet and pdf dont seem to tell you what it has either..

http://www.lg.com/uk/tv-audio-video/televisions/LG-plasma-tv-42PJ550.jsp

You are pretty safe with any brand name TV from Currys or PC World:

From their MD: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67013303&postcount=2

All Branded TVs sold in Currys and PC World are Mpeg 4 ( which is Irish digital compatible) for example LG. Philips. Panasonic, Samsung , Sony

watty

Actually that's not true. The reply was weasel language and contradictory. Read the labels carefully and look for "Freeview HD", not HD Ready or Full HD and "Freeview" without the HD.

copacetic

watty wrote: »

Actually that's not true. The reply was weasel language and contradictory. Read the labels carefully and look for "Freeview HD", not HD Ready or Full HD and "Freeview" without the HD.

Which bit isn't true exactly?

STB

The majority of it was untrue. And I am not particularly happy that it went virtually unchallenged for so long. I have replied now but its a little late.

copacetic

STB wrote: »

The majority of it was untrue. And I am not particularly happy that it went virtually unchallenged for so long. I have replied now but its a little late.

There was a lack of knowledge betrayed in the post, but the key point that I posted was in reply to the person above wondering was a currys LG TV mpeg4:

You are pretty safe with any brand name TV from Currys or PC World

Which I believe is true and posting that it isn't, probably won't help peoples confusion. Either way the MD of Currys posted it, so if there was an issue with the TV they would take it back.

Whatever about the other stuff, it would be great to see the MDs of other retailers come out with similar statements.

STB

copacetic wrote: »

Which I believe is true and posting that it isn't, probably won't help peoples confusion. Either way the MD of Currys posted it, so if there was an issue with the TV they would take it back.

Whatever about the other stuff, it would be great to see the MDs of other retailers come out with similar statements.

Okay but the reason that they have posted was to protect their brand name. Sponge Bob set the challenge with that headline - which whilst a little undiplomatic is in the main true and has been for the past 2 years and has went largely ignored. Its a simple case of shifting UK warehoused stock and the buck that goes with that. Its a little bit of a coincidence that their post was 2 months before the launch (whilst DTT has been on for the last 2 years).

Infact if I pick up a Sunday newspaper today I am sure it will be littered with products unsuitable for this country from the afore mentioned chain. Dont believe the spin.

You only have to look at the number of posts that have been answered over the past year to "I have a new TV and am trying to watch DTT but am getting no picture just sound". There are thousands of them! The buyers who trusted the chains.

What was implied in that post was that LG/Sony/Panasonic products are MPEG4 only and that these manufacturers dont make MPEG2 products and that it is safe to buy one of these brands by default as a result. Both Misleading and simply UNTRUE.

copacetic

STB wrote: »

What was implied in that post was that LG/Sony/Panasonic products are MPEG4 only and that these manufacturers dont make MPEG2 products and that it is safe to buy one of these brands by default as a result. Both Misleading and simply UNTRUE.

How was that implied? You can't make up something that wasn't said just so you can call it UNTRUE! The post was ultra clear and transparent.

All Branded TVs sold in Currys and PC World are Mpeg 4 ( which is Irish digital compatible) for example LG. Philips. Panasonic, Samsung , Sony

i.e Currys and PC World only stock mpeg4 TVs from any name brand. Making out the a post by the MD of Currys about what they sell was an attempt to say that no branded mpeg2 TVs are available anywhere is laughable imo.

As for this

Infact if I pick up a Sunday newspaper today I am sure it will be littered with products unsuitable for this country from the afore mentioned chain. Dont believe the spin.

.
Which spin do I not believe, yours that you claim but make no effort to prove, or theirs?
Why don't you do what you claim you can and post the results rather than just the spin?

STB

copacetic wrote: »

.
Which spin do I not believe, yours that you claim but make no effort to prove, or theirs?
Why don't you do what you claim you can and post the results rather than just the spin?

Joe public will believe that if its a Sony Panasonic LG Phillips then its okay. And thats just not true. The range without the h for LG thousand models and philips models are not mpeg4

And because I know the answers already. I see it every weekend and unless something has dramatically changed over the last 2 weeks and certain models ie nearly all the models listed in the Neotion CAM thread are no longer being sold then they are okay.

Tell you what lets go to their website shall we (ah they dont actually have one that doesnt redirect to the UK site!). I dont sell TVs by the way so have no interest in dissing any chain. ALL the UK chains are AT it.

As it goes I actually do know what I am talking about despite how annoying that may sound.

copacetic

STB wrote: »

Joe public will belive that if its a Sony Panasonic LG Phillips then its okay. And thats just not true.

And because I know the answers already. I see it every weekend and unless something has dramatically changed over the last 2 weeks and certain models ie nearly all the models listed in the Neotion CAM thread are no longer being sold then they are okay.

Tell you what lets go to their website shall we. I dont sell TVs by the way so have no interest in dissing any chain. ALL the UK chains are AT it.

I'm not sure what you can do to prevent Joe public believing the wrong thing but on balance I personally welcome Currys claim and the fact they did it in public and will no doubt back it up if you did somehow buy an non-mpeg4 TV from them.

I've no particular reason to believe or not believe the claim, but from what I've seen myself they and Power City seem to be currently only stocking mpeg4 sets. Power City have been well ahead of all the other chains on prominently displaying info on Irish DTT for a long time now, but other chains are catching up. It appears to be the supermarkets, Tesco, M&S, Dunnes, Aldi, Lidl etc who are the worst culprits at the moment for selling non compatible sets.

I'd still think people should be careful, especially if they plan to use access services, text etc. Waiting for Saorview ticked boxes will always be the safest thing.

STB

Well you cannot depend on the certification process either as its voluntary! Walker are the only ones certified at present.

I do agree with some of what you are saying but for Joe public to believe you are okay with a big name brand is not 100% accurate. Of the latest models yes, but they will not know that. There is SO much warehoused old model and freeview only products still being sold here everyday.

Tescos (possibly the worst) and Maplins.

I know right now that I could walk in to a TV retail shop (including DID Electrical) and find a Freeview only TV at a ridiculous or dearer price than an MPEG4 and suitable product.

The French did the sensible thing. They took it out of the retailers hands and made it illegal.

watty

OK I'll bite this once copacetic as you are a decent regular poster...

Currys: Declan wrote: »

Probably best to answer your points in order ;

1. We don't sell digital TV's that don't work in Ireland. Were that the case, we would have lots of unhappy customers and returned boxes, and we want neither. What I think you're alluding to is that UK freeview specification is not compatible with Irish "digital ", the specifications of which are still not entirely clear to either us or to TV manufacturers.

This is what our TV category manager says :

All Branded TVs sold in Currys and PC World are Mpeg 4 ( which is Irish digital compatible) for example LG. Philips. Panasonic, Samsung , Sony

Not true.
he says later

If I look at the range which we are currently bringing in for winter, across our OEM brands Currys Essentials, Logik and Sandstroem, only the latter will be MPEG 4.

Currys: Declan wrote: »

These TVs also are Mpeg 2 ( free view) which will work in Ireland using a satellite dish, but is not encouraged as this is a BBC licensed service.

Utter nonsense. Freeview doesn't work with a dish, aerial only.

Currys: Declan wrote: »

Currys in the UK have lots of TV's in their range that will not work in Ireland. These are HD digtial freeview ( T2 ) and they won't work here. So we don't include them in our Irish ranges , which are managed locally .

These ones WILL work! and the "middleware" is MHEG5 so works!

Currys: Declan wrote: »

]We feel it would be incorrect and potentially misleading for us to advertise our TV range as Irish digital compatible, until the TV's have the middleware to support all Irish digital functions. This middleware is , as yet, not available

Rubbish. See previous comment

Currys: Declan wrote: »

So, to summarise, Irish digital TV is a minefield and still up in the air. All TV's that we sell will work in Ireland and will receive Irish digital ( as it currently stands ) picture and sound. They are no different from any other TV's sold in Ireland. The fact that our TV's also receive freeview is an additional technology that is built into the product.

Rubbish. Less than 3 months ago when this was posted the spec was absolutely clear for ages.

Currys: Declan wrote: »

On Point 2 the less said the better. We don't pretend that all our colleagues, to a man and woman, know everything about everything that we sell ( and certainly not about a very unclear digital status in Ireland ) but they certainly not clueless.

How much more is the floor staff paid than Tesco staff?
They are not trained other than in Customer Service and selling extras such as "extended warranties" that are actually insurance policies. In my experience they are no more expert than Argos or Tesco, nor do I expect it.

Currys: Declan wrote: »

We have no TV's to withdraw as all our TV's have Mpeg 2 and 4, so there's no problem here.

As quoted he admits this is untrue about the MPEG4. MPEG2 is irrelevant.

Currys: Declan wrote: »

SKY and UPC are Mpeg 2 and these are covered in ouyr range also. So no problem there.

MPEG2 TVs is nothing to do with Sky/UPC digital. All you need is SCART Analogue or HDMI for HD. No decoder in the TV is used at all in either case. Complete nonsense.

Currys: Declan wrote: »

We try to keep ahead of these things. 90 % of our range in 2009 were Mpeg 2 and 4. We were ready but unfortunately nothing happened. We attended meetings in Comreg to make sure we were ready but as you know it all went a bit pear shaped.

Only PayTV went "pear shaped". The spec was obvious to "dogs in street" by 2006 or 2007, bar the MHEG5 and mandatory HD.
The MHEG5 Middleware was discussed as likely in April 2010, the other aspects having been decided.

MHEG5 is what the UK uses and was finalised as 100% definite at end of July 2010. http://www.digitaltvnews.net/content/?p=15694
But it would have been clear at UK HD DTT launch in November 2009 that the same TVs and setboxes would work in Ireland bar question mark over the "middleware".

It's been clear from May 2010 than the service really would launch this Autumn 2010. It was possible from Early 2008 that the service might launch in Autumn 2009 with DVB-t (DVB-T2 tuners will work), MPEG4 and possible HD.

There is now no excuses. All specifications are complete. The service is "official" by Ministerial order, since 29th October 2010 (Well publicised deadline was 31st October 2010).

Full public launch Spring 2011
Analogue Close October 2012

Sale of Goods Act applies. It's reasonably expected that a New TV should be fit for Purpose for at least two years.

copacetic

watty wrote: »

OK I'll bite this once copacetic as you are a decent regular poster...

Ah, ok. We are talking about different things. I only quoted the single line from that post re mpeg4 that I thought was useful. You seemed to be sayingt that it was untrue they were stocking only mpeg4 TVs as you replied directly to my post saying so. Your other points I mostly agree with.

However the key thing, imo, is the current status. i.e They are only currently stocking mpeg4 sets from any brand name. If it's true I'm sure we can all agree thats a good thing. If they now do the same for OEM then they'll be in good shape. (Essentials, Logik and Sandstroem aren't 'brands' in retailer speak, they are unbranded sets, which Currys add a label to)

As STB and myself said above it's Tesco, Maplin, Dunnes etc who are the real current culprits..

watty

Interestingly a while ago (a month?) ALL TVs and stuff with tuners vanished out of the local large Dunnes.

Not a TV to be seen except the JML or whatever advert loop...

copacetic

watty wrote: »

Interestingly a while ago (a month?) ALL TVs and stuff with tuners vanished out of the local large Dunnes.

Not a TV to be seen except the JML or whatever advert loop...

Well thats something, M&S took all their 'digital' TVs off display a while back too, Iafter having big signs up saying they had built in digital receivers for about a year (mpeg2 only). 'm interested to see what reappears for Christmas.

Possibly the move from a test to a trial takes away their last excuse that they are fit for purpose.