M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

marno21

spacetweek wrote: »

The 90-degree bend at Doughiska might be too sharp for motorway. Apart from that I don't see any impediment to Oranmore-N59 getting blue signs. Now's the time to decide before any work has taken place.

If the Glanmire bypass can be a motorway then this is surely suitable for motorway. The tightness of loops is really only an issue for high speed running, not really for motorway restrictions. The M50 junction loops are motorway and aren't suitable for 50km/h+ running. Rossbrien Interchange and J3 Raheen in Limerick are very tight also.

JCX BXC

Funny when you think about it, Tuam has a proper bypass (needed), and there's not even proper talk of a Galway bypass (badly needed)

marno21

JCX BXC wrote: »

Funny when you think about it, Tuam has a proper bypass (needed), and there's not even proper talk of a Galway bypass (badly needed)

There is, it's being sent to An Bord Pleanala for planning permission by the end of the year: www.n6galwaycity.ie

Thread here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055413202

JCX BXC

marno21 wrote: »

There is, it's being sent to An Bord Pleanala for planning permission by the end of the year: www.n6galwaycity.ie

Thread here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055413202

I wouldn't consider it proper talk until the planning is sent, we all know from previous projects that it's not happening until the diggers arrive.

Cookiemunster

JCX BXC wrote: »

I wouldn't consider it proper talk until the planning is sent, we all know from previous projects that it's not happening until the diggers arrive.

Millions have been spent on route planning and EIS. If that isn't "proper talk" I don't know what is.

JCX BXC

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Millions have been spent on route planning and EIS. If that isn't "proper talk" I don't know what is.

Millions have been spent on the M20, yet that's no closer to starting.

marno21

JCX BXC wrote: »

Millions have been spent on the M20, yet that's no closer to starting.

The N6 Galway City Ring Road scheme is currently active and fully funded as part of the Government's Capital Investment Programme. A submission is currently being prepared to be sent to ABP by year end. The project couldn't be any more "proper" or "active".

AugustusMinimus

So, the M18/M17 scheme is now open and there is talk that the traffic and delays at both the Coolagh Roundabouts and the Martin Roundabout has increased further, with more traffic now landing into Galway this way.

I'm in Galway a few times a year and so fortunately, I don't have to experience the shocking traffic that is there.

Simply looking at a map of Galway highlights some huge issues in regards to traffic accessing the city.

1. Galway and Dublin share one thing in common. One half of the city lies flat to the sea, inaccessible by road. In Dublin's case, there is an M50 already in place. In addition, the traffic coming into Dublin is spread evenly in a half circle entering the city. This is the one thing that saves Dublin. The one place this breaks down badly is with the N7, where too much traffic is funnelled down one artery.

Galway is different though. The vast, vast majority of traffic enters the city from the east and north east. This doesn't help the city at all. Cork, Limerick and Waterford don't have this issue due to topography of the cities.


2. Road density in the east of Galway City. This truly is shambolic. The style of development in Ireland from the 1960s onwards has been to build huge housing estates without improving road infrastructure to handle the increased traffic. Prior to this, most city development was done using smaller estates and a grid system. Now its build estates and whatever existing boreens exist will do. Just look at the map below. I've highlighted in red where no movement can happen between the east and the city centre.



Its an absolute cluster****. Hell, even the road from Oranmore dumps out onto the Old Dublin Road causing big trouble at that junction. The lack of routes into the city centre means everything and I mean everything is funnelled down 2 routes which simply cannot take it.


3. At grade roundabouts. Galway must have more at-grade roundabouts per capita than any city on earth. Why so many. And why so many which lead into traffic lights. It inevitably leads to traffic queuing from lights, back onto these roundabouts which then completely block all movements at these roundabouts. Maddening.


4. There are only 4 bridges across the river Corrib. Is there scope for instance for another bridge down by the docks ?



Overall, I'm not sure that the bypass will alleviate any of these issues. Yes, it will be another river crossing and it will take traffic out of the city which is going East - West and visa versa. The only other benefit I can see is for it to act a distributor for the M6. However, this will be of an extremely limited benefit as these routes are already clogged. The issue of a lack of road density and capacity heading into Galway city is still a much bigger issue IMO.


Anyone who reads my posts know I'm pro roads. However, I have my doubts about the Galway bypass scheme. It is currently costs at €600m. I think the money could be better spent on a small schemes, including public transport. Would a park and ride from the east of the city help. Why not a park and ride utilising the existing rail infrastructure ? Given the lack of road density and field after field of undeveloped land in the east of the city, I'd imagine some form of BRT wouldn't be too expensive either ?

spacetweek

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

However, I have my doubts about the Galway bypass scheme. It is currently costs at €600m. I think the money could be better spent on a small schemes, including public transport. Would a park and ride from the east of the city help. Why not a park and ride utilising the existing rail infrastructure ? Given the lack of road density and field after field of undeveloped land in the east of the city, I'd imagine some form of BRT wouldn't be too expensive either ?

In fact, without a big increase in bus services and improvements to the railway, this bypass will be a waste of money. Journeys into and out of the city centre won't be improved by this bypass at all. I hope Galway residents understand this.

youngrun

I would agree . Huge amount of traffic is coming in from the county to work from North and East ( N17 , N84, M6 , Oranmore etc into town) . City expansion will be East. West of city traffic is not that bad now. East is a logjam and I detest driving that side!
Getting rid of roundabouts will make it flow better eg Browne at Hospital, Kirwan and Bohermore.
Buses and Park and Ride are a definite quick solution to some % of traffic and I cant fathom why not in place eg both on N59 moycullen , Cross city buses, and P&Rs on the North and East sides. Long term an eastern rail link Oranmore to Tuam via the business parks should be considered
Bypass is really a hugely expensive inner road , not far enough out imho to future proof it , and takes out a lot of land/property from a well established area , likely to see legal challenges unless a tunnel is a better option cross the corrib ?

serfboard

youngrun wrote: »

Buses and Park and Ride are a definite quick solution to some % of traffic and I cant fathom why not in place eg both on N59 moycullen , Cross city buses, and P&Rs on the North and East sides.

P&Rs on all sides, includuing Bus Lanes on the Western Distributor Road. Huge volumes of traffic going East-West (and West-East) across the bridge (the Quincentennial - in effect, the only working bridge), from Knocknacarra/Barna/West working in Mervue/Ballybrit and from East/North/South working in NUIG/UCHG.

One transport solution that could now work is for Eastern living hospital workers to park at Oranmore P&R, train into town, and Galway Bikes from the Square to the hospital. (The hospital shared bikes is now operational).

youngrun wrote: »

Long term an eastern rail link Oranmore to Tuam via the business parks should be considered

That'll never happen.

youngrun wrote: »

Bypass is really a hugely expensive inner road , not far enough out imho to future proof it , and takes out a lot of land/property from a well established area , likely to see legal challenges unless a tunnel is a better option cross the corrib ?

Wherever you tunnel, you have to come up somewhere - and when you do, there will be a lawyer with a writ in their hand.

JupiterKid

The Galway outer bypass is needed, but I agree with the others who point out that it won’t solve the traffic problems in Galway city. Too many routes converge into the city from the East, forming a huge “pinch point” for traffic.

Piss poor planning and poor public transport has worsened this problem. Galway city would do well to have a high capacity East-West dedicated busway crossing the city centre as a start. The current situation is simply not sustainable. Major changes are badly needed.

Bobeagleburger

I don't think the proposed link onto the N59 is far enough west.

what_traffic

JupiterKid wrote: »

The Galway outer bypass is needed, but I agree with the others who point out that it won’t solve the traffic problems in Galway city. Too many routes converge into the city from the East, forming a huge “pinch point” for traffic.

Is it a bypass, even an outer bypass at that? The proposed Galway City Expressway/Dual Carraigeway is the City side of the Parkmore Industrial estate for starters and Bushypark. Agree it wont solve the Car Traffic problems in Galway City. That will only be solved when Cars are removed from the equation.

marno21

The new Galway ring road has to be built simply as a way of taking traffic, especially heavy traffic, that has no business inside the ring away from the area.

You can't turn the existing N6 Bothar na dTreabh into a functional shared corridor if it still has HGVs and through traffic on it.

Unfortunately, there's a notion that its being built to function as a Knocknacarra-Parkmore expressway. That's simply not going to work.

Middle Man

marno21 wrote: »

The new Galway ring road has to be built simply as a way of taking traffic, especially heavy traffic, that has no business inside the ring away from the area.

You can't turn the existing N6 Bothar na dTreabh into a functional shared corridor if it still has HGVs and through traffic on it.

Unfortunately, there's a notion that its being built to function as a Knocknacarra-Parkmore expressway. That's simply not going to work.

...and as part of that project, a tram line should be built across the entire city given its lateral configuration. Mainline rail commuter services must also be developed.

marno21

Middle Man wrote: »

...and as part of that project, a tram line should be built across the entire city given it's lateral configuration.

Along the route of the N6 Bothar na dTreabh?

Middle Man

marno21 wrote: »

Along the route of the N6 Bothar na dTreabh?

I would be looking at something like Knocknacarra, Rahoon (using Western Distributor), GUH (using Seamus Quirke Road), Galway Cathedral, Eyre Square (not sure how), Wellpark (using College Road), Ballybane (using Monivea Road), Doughiska (via Merlin Park Hospital). Now, I'm from Meath so there may be many unknowns that would make my idea unworkable. Any thoughts or alternative routes?

DylanGLC

Like the recent spending on many courthouses throughout the country, wouldn't it be nice if the government decided to fund a new tram system in each city.. Completely unrealistic goal (it was reconfirmed recently Cork didn't have the density for it so the others probably aren't even close) but it would be nice

L1011

DylanGLC wrote: »

Like the recent spending on many courthouses throughout the country, wouldn't it be nice if the government decided to fund a new tram system in each city.. Completely unrealistic goal (it was reconfirmed recently Cork didn't have the density for it so the others probably aren't even close) but it would be nice

Waterford absolutely doesn't need one, Cork would be a nightmare with the entire northside on hills. Galway wouldn't benefit as much as claims, well, claim. Limerick has the trackbed ready for a light rail system to be put in place at extremely low cost; that's about it.

Courthouses are very cheap compared to light rail.

DylanGLC

L1011 wrote: »

Waterford absolutely doesn't need one, Cork would be a nightmare with the entire northside on hills. Galway wouldn't benefit as much as claims, well, claim. Limerick has the trackbed ready for a light rail system to be put in place at extremely low cost; that's about it.

Courthouses are very cheap compared to light rail.

Oh I know this wasn't a serious idea or anything - just wishful thinking that one day our cities will be large enough for them And Cork's is planned to run from Mahon to Ballincollig through the city centre. One to the airport and Douglas/Grange/Frankfield/Rochestown wouldn't be impossible, either. You are completely right with the northside, though

Bobeagleburger

The bypass AND better public transport is required.

Public transport won't make much difference to the thousands who travel from Moycullen/Ougherard/Clifden and the rest of Connemara to the East of the city daily.

Park and Rides with public transport that travel on fast dedicated lanes is a possible alternative to people commuting from outside the City.

what_traffic

marno21 wrote: »

The new Galway ring road has to be built simply as a way of taking traffic, especially heavy traffic, that has no business inside the ring away from the area.

You can't turn the existing N6 Bothar na dTreabh into a functional shared corridor if it still has HGVs and through traffic on it.

Where are these HGV's going though? City Centre Port and Commerical districts of the City? Problem in Galway is not large volumes of HGV traffic crossing from Connemara to the East Side of the City and vice versa, its private car commuters and the ring road aint going to solve that problem.
And if people say, need the City Expressway to make space on Bothar na dTreabh - well look at the Oranmore Coast Road and Rosshill. Coast Road should be a bus priority route and a residents only road in case of Rosshill (as Oranmore has two dual carriageways into Galway City) parallel to these roads and both are still used as a rat runs for private car traffic into Galway City.

Carawaystick

DylanGLC wrote: »

Like the recent spending on many courthouses throughout the country, wouldn't it be nice if the government decided to fund a new tram system in each city.. Completely unrealistic goal (it was reconfirmed recently Cork didn't have the density for it so the others probably aren't even close) but it would be nice

A tram is very inflexible, and only serves certain routes, a bus corridor though, takes the same space, yet allows routes join or leave to provide connectivity and spurs easily. And also can allow coach services which are the fastest public transport option to get from Galway to another city

Paddico

Any update here. 
Shovel ready late next year?

marno21

Paddico wrote: »

Any update here. 
Shovel ready late next year?

No update since.

Shovel ready for 2021

Middle Man

Carawaystick wrote: »

A tram is very inflexible, and only serves certain routes, a bus corridor though, takes the same space, yet allows routes join or leave to provide connectivity and spurs easily. And also can allow coach services which are the fastest public transport option to get from Galway to another city

A tram line is IMO right for Galway and should have been part of the M6 Bypass Scheme. Low rise development should have to give way to high rise clusters based around stations on the said line - that's how you increase usage. In London, high rise clusters are being developed around major rail stations. Naturally in Galway, 10 to 15 storeys would be more realistic. We really need to do away with land freehold title so that we can modernise Ireland!

Carawaystick

Middle Man wrote: »

A tram line is IMO right for Galway and should have been part of the M6 Bypass Scheme. Low rise development should have to give way to high rise clusters based around stations on the said line - that's how you increase usage. In London, high rise clusters are being developed around major rail stations. Naturally in Galway, 10 to 15 storeys would be more realistic. We really need to do away with land freehold title so that we can modernise Ireland!

I can't wait to welcome out feudal midleman masters back, owning all the land.
Luckily in the upcoming election you will be able to put the courage of your abolishing freehold to the electorate and see how much of a runner it is.

Where would you run your single tram line?
How would it impact coach traffic serving Galway, compared to a segregated bus route?

serfboard

Middle Man wrote: »

A tram line is IMO right for Galway and should have been part of the M6 Bypass Scheme.

Since Galway City Council/TII won't spend operationally on a decent bus service, the chances are even less that they'll spend operationally on a Tram service - not to mention the multiple millions of capital expenditure that would be required to lay the tram tracks.

KevR

serfboard wrote: »

Middle Man wrote: »

A tram line is IMO right for Galway and should have been part of the M6 Bypass Scheme.

Since Galway City Council/TII won't spend operationally on a decent bus service, the chances are even less that they'll spend operationally on a Tram service - not to mention the multiple millions of capital expenditure that would be required to lay the tram tracks.

I don't think we will ever see enough money from central government to really fix our transport problems. They will drip feed money for small patch fixes here and there.

What about a local sales tax and a city hotel tax?
This would have to be voted into existence by the people of Galway. (Obviously a master plan for transport would be needed before voting)
Funds would be ring fenced exclusively for the specified transport initiatives.

On the one hand, additional local tax might make Galway less competitive.
But our existing traffic woes are a huge disadvantage and (in my opinion) outweigh a very modest local tax.

Maybe Galway should take control of it's own destiny.
City Council and local elected representatives - they would need to step up big time.

https://la.curbed.com/2016/11/9/13573924/measure-m-los-angeles-public-transit-results