M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

marno21

If Galway wasn't so sprawled it might be easier to construct such a scheme, but in reality a defined corridor should have been put in place a long time ago, especially given the previous "outer bypass" nonsense.

41 homes is a lot in isolation but this scheme is key to the future of Galway of the proposed works for the existing N6 are done right. 41 people's homes, for which they are being fully compensated, for the sake of the future of Galway city is fairly reasonable imo.

Zzippy

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Homes and businesses get CPOed on every major road scheme. Galway isn't unique to this process. The designers try to avoid this as much as possible, but there's only so far you can go, so some people are always going to be put out.

Agreed, but at the same time it can be recognised that it is traumatic for those people, some much more than others, and the comments above were in response to a glib put-down of those people having a "The Field" mentality. It would be bad enough losing your home and having to start from scratch without keyboard warriors making derogatory remarks that they wouldn't dare say to your face.

Donegal Storm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Homes and businesses get CPOed on every major road scheme. Galway isn't unique to this process. The designers try to avoid this as much as possible, but there's only so far you can go, so some people are always going to be put out.

It's inevitable yes and I have no issues with the idea of CPO's, I just don't think its fair to criticise people for putting up a fight to want to keep their homes. If it's found that there's no reasonable alternative and the people are compensated then all's well.

Blame the pathetic inefficiency of the public service and courts, not the people trying to keep their homes

flatty

I know of people who are delighted they are being cpo'd.
I agree with all the above, but nothing is ever simple, and at least it is open honest and above board, unlike many other countries.
Such is life.

marno21

N6 scheme to go to ABP next month: http://connachttribune.ie/application-e650-million-galway-city-bypass-lodged-next-month/

Price now upto €650m. Hopefully be approved by Christmas with advance works to start in 2019. 2021 start if funding approved.

what_traffic

marno21 wrote: »

N6 scheme to go to ABP next month: http://connachttribune.ie/application-e650-million-galway-city-bypass-lodged-next-month/

Price now upto €650m. Hopefully be approved by Christmas with advance works to start in 2019. 2021 start if funding approved.

"
When it’s published, the final plan for the N6 Galway City Ring Road, as it is now known, will result in the demolition of at least 40 homes.

A further 10 homes will be uninhabitable due to their closeness to the carriageway and a handful of businesses will also be knocked or severely impacted. Some €650 million has been earmarked for the 16.5 kilometres stretch of mostly dual carriageway road.
"
Must correct previous Posts. 50 Homes.

spacetweek

Will they demolish uninhabitable homes?

Middle Man

what_traffic wrote: »

"
When it’s published, the final plan for the N6 Galway City Ring Road, as it is now known, will result in the demolition of at least 40 homes.

A further 10 homes will be uninhabitable due to their closeness to the carriageway and a handful of businesses will also be knocked or severely impacted. Some €650 million has been earmarked for the 16.5 kilometres stretch of mostly dual carriageway road.
"
Must correct previous Posts. 50 Homes.

Houses in the future will be just places to live in - not one's life. Creativity IMO will be mostly online then - in fact though I'm 44, I do almost everything by computer - even music. The days of showing your skills through DIY work will give way to creativity in digital form - it has already happened with me. Houses will become increasingly homogenous and thereby interchangeable with relative ease. Such means that property will hopefully become much more flexible by way of demographic migration (people living closer to their place of work) and changeable urban environments (demolitions will be easier to secure).

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we keep this thread for the Galway city ring road - rather than the future of housing.

marno21

spacetweek wrote: »

Will they demolish uninhabitable homes?

Open to correction here:

The "uninhabitable" homes will be purchased in the same way as a CPO but the residents can remain in their homes until the scheme opens if they wish - uninhabitable is only after opening due to proximity to the mainline. There's houses like this on the M17/M18 scheme iirc

what_traffic

marno21 wrote: »

If Galway wasn't so sprawled it might be easier to construct such a scheme, but in reality a defined corridor should have been put in place a long time ago, especially given the previous "outer bypass" nonsense.

What you will get as a result of it been built though will be even more sprawl(look at the M50). If you did not have the sprawl in the first place probably would not need to be spending €650,000,000. It is a vicious circle (unless you are getting some of those €€€).

marno21

what_traffic wrote: »

What you will get as a result of it been built though will be even more sprawl(look at the M50). If you did not have the sprawl in the first place probably would not need to be spending €650,000,000. It is a vicious circle (unless you are getting some of those €€€).

Future sprawl can easily be legislated for. An M6 Galway bypass, "motorway", will quickly quieten any further sprawl with protected link roads.

The past cannot be undone, but future sprawl can be prevented. Let this new road be the motorway bypass Galway needs such as Limerick's M7 and Dublin's M50. Then let the existing sprawl ridden mess of an N6 be used for a public transport corridor.

Middle Man

what_traffic wrote: »

What you will get as a result of it been built though will be even more sprawl(look at the M50). If you did not have the sprawl in the first place probably would not need to be spending €650,000,000. It is a vicious circle (unless you are getting some of those €€€).

Barstool talk - the usual workmen blaming their tools mentality. Marno21 has hit the nail on the head - what we need is proper planning and for that, we need proper roads and proper public transport but most importantly, proper implementation and subsequent operation of these elements.

m17

Middle Man wrote: »

Barstool talk - the usual workmen blaming their tools mentality. Marno21 has hit the nail on the head - what we need is proper planning and for that, we need proper roads and proper public transport but most importantly, proper implementation and subsequent operation of these elements.

I wish to god the would hurry up and start this project as I can't wait another three years as I have the drone and camera ready to go and the the bike

youngrun

marno21 wrote: »

If Galway wasn't so sprawled it might be easier to construct such a scheme, but in reality a defined corridor should have been put in place a long time ago, especially given the previous "outer bypass" nonsense.

41 homes is a lot in isolation but this scheme is key to the future of Galway of the proposed works for the existing N6 are done right. 41 people's homes, for which they are being fully compensated, for the sake of the future of Galway city is fairly reasonable imo.

The scheme impacts not just 41 homes- it takes out a lot of key city sporting facilities and recreational amenities also eg at NUI Galway lands and the Regional sports centre , affects a couple of schools eg Bushypark and the Bish relocation , impacts one of the most scenic and historic areas of the city at Menlo Castle and village, and impinges severely on a major residential area at Dangan so I can imagine there will quite a lot of opposition to this scheme, which has probably not been factored in to planning or timelines. It is essentially is another city roadway and imho would have been better served by routing via tunnel or at a more westerly crossing of the Corrib into vacant land.

marno21

Middle Man wrote: »

Barstool talk - the usual workmen blaming their tools mentality. Marno21 has hit the nail on the head - what we need is proper planning and for that, we need proper roads and proper public transport but most importantly, proper implementation and subsequent operation of these elements.

Yes. A number of places are either on their 2nd bypass or requiring one due to the original "bypass" being used as a car centric development corridor.

Let this be Galway's actual bypass and keep it free from development. The M50 was built as Dublin's bypass and it being Dublin's bypass isn't the source of congestion, Sandyford, Liffey Valley, Blanchardstown etc and all the other car centric developments that sprung up with the M50 are

Zzippy

Middle Man wrote: »

Barstool talk - the usual workmen blaming their tools mentality. Marno21 has hit the nail on the head - what we need is proper planning and for that, we need proper roads and proper public transport but most importantly, proper implementation and subsequent operation of these elements.

I agree, but the local authorities are planning for one but not the other. The public transport, bus corridors, new routes, alternative modes, extra capacity, park&rides should all be in the same planning phase as the road and progressed in tandem with the road. But we'll do as we've always done, build a road and wait to see if it reduces traffic in and around the city before doing anything, instead of being proactive and providing the alternatives to get people out of cars.

youngrun

youngrun wrote: »

The scheme impacts not just 41 homes- it takes out a lot of key city sporting facilities and recreational amenities also eg at NUI Galway lands and the Regional sports centre , affects a couple of schools eg Bushypark and the Bish relocation , impacts one of the most scenic and historic areas of the city at Menlo Castle and village, and impinges severely on a major residential area at Dangan so I can imagine there will quite a lot of opposition to this scheme, which has probably not been factored in to planning or timelines. It is essentially is another city roadway and imho would have been better served by routing via tunnel or at a more westerly crossing of the Corrib into vacant land.

Sports fields, easily rebuilt. They are a flat piece of ground ffs

The schools? You are referring to one that the residents hate and another they have actively blocked for over a decade, those schools? Nice to hear the tune changing

Historical consideration is made with every development. Besides, it might be the best thing to ever happen. The M18 going within 500 meters of Bunratty Castle has only increased the patronage.

According to the recent publications, the planning application is being designed to mitigate against the impact of objections. What that entails, I don't know. I guess we'll have to wait and see

No matter what happens, this road will be built, this is the alternative, there is no other

flatty

youngrun wrote: »

marno21 wrote: »

If Galway wasn't so sprawled it might be easier to construct such a scheme, but in reality a defined corridor should have been put in place a long time ago, especially given the previous "outer bypass" nonsense.

41 homes is a lot in isolation but this scheme is key to the future of Galway of the proposed works for the existing N6 are done right. 41 people's homes, for which they are being fully compensated, for the sake of the future of Galway city is fairly reasonable imo.

The scheme impacts not just 41 homes- it takes out a lot of key city sporting facilities and recreational amenities also eg at NUI Galway lands and the Regional sports centre , affects a couple of schools eg Bushypark and the Bish relocation , impacts one of the most scenic and historic areas of the city at Menlo Castle and village, and impinges severely on a major residential area at Dangan so I can imagine there will quite a lot of opposition to this scheme, which has probably not been factored in to planning or timelines. It is essentially is another city roadway and imho would have been better served by routing via tunnel or at a more westerly crossing of the Corrib into vacant land.

The bish has been looking at relocating for years, and it's long overdue speaking as a past pupil. As it turns out, I'm also a past pupil of bushy Park which was built as a small school for a rural area, and time has caught up. It's catchment now is really quite big, and moving it to a larger site with better facilities would also be a good thing.

what_traffic

marno21 wrote: »

Future sprawl can easily be legislated for. An M6 Galway bypass, "motorway", will quickly quieten any further sprawl with protected link roads.

The past cannot be undone, but future sprawl can be prevented. Let this new road be the motorway bypass Galway needs such as Limerick's M7 and Dublin's M50. Then let the existing sprawl ridden mess of an N6 be used for a public transport corridor.

If it was "easy" why has it not been done already?
It is never going to happen that it will be a "motorway" bypass.
Everything in the plans that have been published to date show that it is NOT been designed as a motorway, it is been designed as a ring road/urban dual carraigeway. spacetweek got it in one in post #2515

Propose a motorway, watch 10 years of legal and enviro action hold it up. Build an "expressway-standard dual carriageway", no problem.

AugustusMinimus

Sprawl isn’t the issue in Galway. A complete lack of road density is. All traffic gets funnelled down about 2 roads for traffic coming from the east. That disastrous.

Middle Man

Zzippy wrote: »

I agree, but the local authorities are planning for one but not the other. The public transport, bus corridors, new routes, alternative modes, extra capacity, park&rides should all be in the same planning phase as the road and progressed in tandem with the road. But we'll do as we've always done, build a road and wait to see if it reduces traffic in and around the city before doing anything, instead of being proactive and providing the alternatives to get people out of cars.

Exactly - a massive upgrade of public transport in Galway should be part of the M6 bypass scheme - in fact, it should be a condition! You sometimes hear me screaming for a tram system in Galway - there are now cheaper models that use a single rail with rubber tyres that might be suited for cities like Galway - this from Paris...

(not my video - Paris tram line)

marno21

Zzippy wrote: »

I agree, but the local authorities are planning for one but not the other. The public transport, bus corridors, new routes, alternative modes, extra capacity, park&rides should all be in the same planning phase as the road and progressed in tandem with the road. But we'll do as we've always done, build a road and wait to see if it reduces traffic in and around the city before doing anything, instead of being proactive and providing the alternatives to get people out of cars.

Arup are also doing the planning work for the public transport side of things - but the primary aim at the minute is getting planning permission for the bypass. Getting that past planning has to be done before talks of replacing the existing bypass with multi modal solutions comes about

Middle Man

Middle Man wrote: »

Exactly - a massive upgrade of public transport in Galway should be part of the M6 bypass scheme - in fact, it should be a condition! You sometimes hear me screaming for a tram system in Galway - there are now cheaper models that use a single rail with rubber tyres that might be suited for cities like Galway - this from Paris...

(not my video - Paris tram line)

Scalextric trams, well that's a new one on me.

Sam Russell

Middle Man wrote: »

Exactly - a massive upgrade of public transport in Galway should be part of the M6 bypass scheme - in fact, it should be a condition! You sometimes hear me screaming for a tram system in Galway - there are now cheaper models that use a single rail with rubber tyres that might be suited for cities like Galway - this from Paris...

(not my video - Paris tram line)

Rubber tyred trams - now who would have thought of that? Oh, wait, they have a rubber tyred metro line in Paris.

Another option would be trolley buses as used in Geneva, and were used in London until about 1960.

They use two wires overhead, and are basically electric buses, with very fast acceleration. The same could be achieved with a battery powered bus that recharges at the ends of the route. These are coming on stream now.

Sam Russell

Sam Russell wrote: »

Rubber tyred trams - now who would have thought of that? Oh, wait, they have a rubber tyred metro line in Paris.

Another option would be trolley buses as used in Geneva, and were used in London until about 1960.

They use two wires overhead, and are basically electric buses, with very fast acceleration. The same could be achieved with a battery powered bus that recharges at the ends of the route. These are coming on stream now.

I think the main point is that there are several methods of guiding an articulated passenger vehicle along a twisty route that allows the entire vehicle to remain within a tight line on the route, from a pair of rails to a white line follower.

Sam Russell

Deleted User wrote: »

I think the main point is that there are several methods of guiding an articulated passenger vehicle along a twisty route that allows the entire vehicle to remain within a tight line on the route, from a pair of rails to a white line follower.

And which is cheaper to construct (from an infrastructure viewpoint) and how much to maintain, and alter/expand/re-route?

Rail I would think is longer life (Darts from 1983 still running after a refit). DB selling off 13 year old buses. Luas not there long enough to tell. Rubber trams might be more like buses. Rail more expensive to build, and to alter/expand/expand/re-route.

Trolley bus solution would be cheap to install, same cost as bus but uses electricity and has faster acceleration so quicker. BRT could be trolley buses. Better than bendy buses but not as sexy as super smooth trams like luas.

marno21

what_traffic wrote: »

If it was "easy" why has it not been done already?
It is never going to happen that it will be a "motorway" bypass.
Everything in the plans that have been published to date show that it is NOT been designed as a motorway, it is been designed as a ring road/urban dual carraigeway. spacetweek got it in one in post #2515

The existing N6 is dead and buried, it has to be replaced by a functioning "bypass".

The website and articles mention a motorway order and protected road order. Going by the Ringaskiddy plans, this would imply that Doughiska -> N59 would be motorway (it would be dual carriageway with motorway restrictions, not full blown motorway ala the M50) and N59 west to Barna would be protected regional road.

Something has to be done to stop this getting destroyed in the same way as everything else has been. TII are not as blase when it comes to these things as the councils and NRA were at the time, policy has changed.

Zzippy

Given the scenic location of the river crossing, I hope they will consider a nice striking design for the bridge, along the lines of the Samuel Beckett Bridge maybe, and not some bog standard pre-fabricated flat concrete box design. We need something that adds to the view on the river, not detracts from it.

flatty

Zzippy wrote: »

Given the scenic location of the river crossing, I hope they will consider a nice striking design for the bridge, along the lines of the Samuel Beckett Bridge maybe, and not some bog standard pre-fabricated flat concrete box design. We need something that adds to the view on the river, not detracts from it.

Agreed, but we have as much chance of that as the wolftones have of playing the rangers Christmas party.