Send in the Clowns - BAC 10K Challenge

dna_leri

Glad to see to took me up on my recommendation.
Good competitive field too.
See you there.

Krusty_Clown

dna_leri wrote: »

Glad to see to took me up on my recommendation.
Good competitive field too.
See you there.

Lol. Just looked at the entry list for the 040 5,000m. I'd be as well off entering the national championship! Given that it's an over 40s race there's a small chance that half of the entrants will forget that the race is on, and hopefully the other half will be recovering from him-related ailments.

Itziger

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Lol. Just looked at the entry list for the 040 5,000m. I'd be as well off entering the national championship! Given that it's an over 40s race there's a small chance that half of the entrants will forget that the race is on, and hopefully the other half will be recovering from him-related ailments.

You saying they all voted 'Yes' in the recent referendum?

Krusty_Clown

Itziger wrote: »

You saying they all voted 'Yes' in the recent referendum?

Damn you and your hawk-like eyes! Hip, damnit, hip!

adrian522

I thought there was some half iron man they were all doing prior to the race.

Outside

Hey Krusty, long time follower, first time poster to these parts. I know you've a lot of +ve experience with JD's plans so I'm knee deep myself in the 2Q plan peaking about 60mpw for Dublin. So far, so good.

Just wondering in terms of racing, I think I'm set on doing Charleville half on 20th of Sept (5 weeks from DCM). Does it make sense to skip Q2 that week as a mini-taper and then race that half all out? I'm wondering if it makes sense to try for a good run in Charleville then plug that pace into his calc's and get an idea of how I'm set for Dublin?
Thanks,
Outside

Outside

Hey Krusty, long time follower, first time poster to these parts. I know you've a lot of +ve experience with JD's plans so I'm knee deep myself in the 2Q plan peaking about 60mpw for Dublin. So far, so good.

Just wondering in terms of racing, I think I'm set on doing Charleville half on 20th of Sept (5 weeks from DCM). Does it make sense to skip Q2 that week as a mini-taper and then race that half all out? I'm wondering if it makes sense to try for a good run in Charleville then plug that pace into his calc's and get an idea of how I'm set for Dublin?
Thanks,
Outside

Krusty_Clown

Outside wrote: »

Hey Krusty, long time follower, first time poster to these parts. I know you've a lot of +ve experience with JD's plans so I'm knee deep myself in the 2Q plan peaking about 60mpw for Dublin. So far, so good.

Just wondering in terms of racing, I think I'm set on doing Charleville half on 20th of Sept (5 weeks from DCM). Does it make sense to skip Q2 that week as a mini-taper and then race that half all out? I'm wondering if it makes sense to try for a good run in Charleville then plug that pace into his calc's and get an idea of how I'm set for Dublin?
Thanks,
Outside

Hi Outside, what are the two quality sessions for that week? I think JD's own advice on the subject is exactly that. Skip the Q2 session in favour of the race (and make sure that you recover fully afterwards before attempting another quality session).

I've often run a half-marathon in the middle of a JD plan, but if I'm being honest, I've nearly really raced one flat out - instead they'd be closer to marathon pace, so are a closer match to an actual JD quality session. If you're going to race it flat out, you can't underestimate the recovery time required, and I guess be prepared to have some form of knock-on impact on your training plan. Having said all that, I'll be down in Charleville myself, doing something pretty similar (though I'm targeting Frankfurt again). At the end of the day you have to figure out what the real goal is: the marathon or the half marathon, and if you're going to fully commit to the half-marathon 5 weeks out, than you have to accept the risks that come with it. There really are few better ways to determine your goal pace and strategy though. That and getting through one of those JD 15 miles @MP sessions.

What kind of time are you hoping to achieve in Charleville?

Outside

Q1 that weekend is meant to be 6E - 2T - 6E - 2T - 1E (17 mi)
Q2 has I's and R's scheduled so possibly have to be careful with those.

I suppose racing it all out won't really be possibly anyway as I'll be in the thick of marathon training so won't really be true PB.

At the moment my goal is 2:45 for DCM and if I plug that into JD's calc it equates to approx 79 min Half. I presume 79min half is if you were fully tapered and that was your goal? So possibly stick to 80min pace for first 10 miles then see how I feel?

15@PMP?! Panicking looking through plan and I can't see that in the 2Q plan, your on the Elite plan right?! That sounds pretty tricky. I have recent edition too by the way.

How will you approach it yourself since Frankfurt is 4 weeks out right?

Krusty_Clown

Outside wrote: »

Q1 that weekend is meant to be 6E - 2T - 6E - 2T - 1E (17 mi)
Q2 has I's and R's scheduled so possibly have to be careful with those.

I suppose racing it all out won't really be possibly anyway as I'll be in the thick of marathon training so won't really be true PB.

At the moment my goal is 2:45 for DCM and if I plug that into JD's calc it equates to approx 79 min Half. I presume 79min half is if you were fully tapered and that was your goal? So possibly stick to 80min pace for first 10 miles then see how I feel?

15@PMP?! Panicking looking through plan and I can't see that in the 2Q plan, your on the Elite plan right?! That sounds pretty tricky. I have recent edition too by the way.

How will you approach it yourself since Frankfurt is 4 weeks out right?

It might make sense to see which of the two sessions is closer to the training stimulus you will get from racing the half in Charleville and skipping that one in favour of the other. So if the Q2 is intervals/reps and is a shorter workout, might make sense to run that early enough in the week to recover fully before Charleville? Yeah, that's kind of the approach I'd take - without a taper or HM-specific training, while you can still run a PB, you're not likely to run to your full HM potential and you also want to get back to regular training as soon as possible. So, I'll probably start just outside of what I think I could potentially run, and try and pick up the pace over the last 2-3 miles, so it's not a suffer-fest from start to finish. Frankfurt is the day before Dublin, so exactly 5 weeks between the two races. So I'll be shooting for a good solid run (hopefully a few mins knocked off the PB), but will take the result in the context of my marathon training load.

Sorry, that 15 miles @MP may not appear in later versions of the book, but appeared in both the Plan A and elite plan in earlier revisions.

Outside

Thanks Krusty,

That makes sense, I'll play it by ear until a little closer to the time but that sounds good. Good luck with your JD training.

Good luck in Strandhill too this weekend by the way, great event! If it helps, here's my Garmin from 2012, I'm not sure if course has changed but similar I'd say:
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/220923064

Krusty_Clown

Outside wrote: »

Thanks Krusty,

That makes sense, I'll play it by ear until a little closer to the time but that sounds good. Good luck with your JD training.

Good luck in Strandhill too this weekend by the way, great event! If it helps, here's my Garmin from 2012, I'm not sure if course has changed but similar I'd say:
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/220923064

Thanks Outside. I'm not actually following a JD plan on this occasion. I'm following my own customized version of Steve Magness' marathon plan. Not sure how it'll pan out, but enjoying the sessions/diversity so far. I've found that I need to vary the plan/style after a couple of cycles, as eventually the same stimulus results in diminishing returns and an over-awareness (fear) of what pain lies ahead! Sometimes the devil you don't know is better.

Clearlier

Any recommendations for an 11 mile route in the Bray area Krusty? I'll be leaving from the seafront. Although I grew up in the area I never did any distance running until after I had left. Most of my running as a child was done in St. Thomas's, Pres Bray or over the cliff walk.

As that implies (as well as my entry to the Tullamore half) I'm finally making it back to Bray for the first time this year. I'll be there next week so if your schedule suits and you're free perhaps we could get a run in together with Dubgal?

Aside from the 11 miler (Wed/Thurs) and the half I'm planning a couple of short recovery runs (Wed/Thurs + Sunday morning). Needless to say everything is a good bit slower than you but if there's a way that we could make it work it would be nice to put a face to a name.

P.S. It's good to read that you're still training. Often when logs go silent it's because of injury.

Krusty_Clown

Clearlier wrote: »

Any recommendations for an 11 mile route in the Bray area Krusty? I'll be leaving from the seafront. Although I grew up in the area I never did any distance running until after I had left. Most of my running as a child was done in St. Thomas's, Pres Bray or over the cliff walk.

As that implies (as well as my entry to the Tullamore half) I'm finally making it back to Bray for the first time this year. I'll be there next week so if your schedule suits and you're free perhaps we could get a run in together with Dubgal?

Aside from the 11 miler (Wed/Thurs) and the half I'm planning a couple of short recovery runs (Wed/Thurs + Sunday morning). Needless to say everything is a good bit slower than you but if there's a way that we could make it work it would be nice to put a face to a name.

P.S. It's good to read that you're still training. Often when logs go silent it's because of injury.

Yeah, that'd be great. I have a near infinite list of 10-11 mile routes, but my favourites would certainly entail the cliff walk (and running back over the top of the hills from Windgates), or taking in the hills around the Dublin Mountains (Rathmicheal, Scalp, Enniskerry etc). For 11 miles, I'd head up to Shanganagh, Rathmichael, Puck's Castle, Berryfield, and back by little Bray, which would be about 11 miles. One or two healthy climbs, but nothing too bad.. Let me know when yourself and Dubgal are free and I'll make sure my calendar's free!

Krusty_Clown

Wow.. Can't believe my last training related post was back in Mid-June... Very quick catch-up:

June (continued):
June 20th : Dunshaughlin 10k: 19th Overall in 33:11
While it was great to net a nice new PB with 22 seconds chipped off my time from the same race last year, I couldn't help but feel it was also a bit of a missed opportunity. The 10k was my first ever race distance (51:45), so still holds a sacred place in my heart, so the idea of running a 10k time that started with 32:xx? Let's just say I could retire from running in a happy place. The race itself went as well as it could have, given my lack of preparation. The track 5k (Dublin Championships (15:47.97) three days earlier had taken a lot out of me, and I really struggled to refocus for Dunshaughlin - so much so, that I even had a couple of uncustomary beers the night before the race and was prepared not to take the race seriously. But I headed down with my training buddy and was committed to run with him through half-way, in around 16:30. In the end, we we were a little off at half way, and with the growing heat/head-wind struggled to make up the time in the second half, despite running a negative split. Given my lack of focus, I was very happy with the time and overall placing, but couldn't help but feel that if I'd opted for choosing the 10k instead of the track 5,000m, I might have been a damn site closer to my dream time. Paired with a feeling that I might never again be in this kind of 10k shape again, I wondered if perhaps I'd made the wrong choice. Too late to do anything about it afterwards though.

June 23rd - Bray invitational mile - 04:50
Certainly a case of a race too many (particularly as I had to travel 150 miles on the motorcycle from Roscommon to get to the race), but I had been cajoling one of the club's newest members to do the race, so felt obliged to run it myself. Race really didn't go well and didn't run to my potential, partially due to general weariness and partially down to the fact that it was a 'paced race' that resulted in three really slow laps, followed by a final 'every man for himself' final lap, that wasn't conducive to a good mile time.

June 27th: Prague Salamon Urban Trail Race - 18th
Flew out from Dublin the day after the Bray invitational race, on holidays with the family, where we were doing a posh form of inter-railing (Prague->Vienna_>Budapest). Plan was just to recover after hammering a few races in rapid succession, by running every day, but just easy recovery runs. Well, that lasted until Saturday. On Friday I'd just completed a nice easy hot 'n' hilly 10 mile run, and was just in a coffee shop picking up some coffee for myself and the missus, when the barista mentioned that their was an urban trail race taking place the next day in the hills above Prague. I couldn't resist. I promised myself I'd take it easy, but the terrain wasn't exactly conducive to jogging around the course as you were either hammering it down a steep hill, or straining up a steep climb. My only goal was to not walk a single step in the race, and I was proud to say that I accomplished it, when all around me walked up all of the climbs (even if they did all pass me, as I huffed and puffed my way up those hills). Probably ran a little harder than I had hoped as this race did some damage to my already vulnerable legs. Still a really enjoyable run and one of the highlights of my trip to Prague (and most importantly, I beat the barista - who looked like a pretty serious runner ).

June summary: Wrapped up my Steve Magness phase of 5k training. Didn't quite yield the kind of returns I'd hoped for over the 5k/5,000m distance, but still, I came out the other side feeling faster and stronger and sometimes that's enough. Still running PBs and that's enough to show that I was continuing to make progress. The second half of the year is all about the marathon.

Krusty_Clown

July catch-up:
Week 1: 61 miles - mostly easy running/touristing around Vienna and Budapest. Running in Budapest is incredible, particularly around Margit Island, where they have a 5km running track laid around the full circumference of the Island, as well as a more traditional oval track. Lots of runners about the place, drinking water fountains, and recovery beer as cheap as chips. A real runner's paradise.

Week 2: 100 miles - back with a bang
Back with a bang and straight into marathon training, following a heavily customized Steve Magness marathon plan (in other words, I'm doing the sessions, not doing the mileage and customizing the plan week by week). The key workouts were:
25 minute split tempo at around 5:35/mile
3x (3x 600 @5k/30 secs) / 4 mins rest
13 miles with 4 mile progression

Week 3: 61 Miles - a hurty calf and a podium
My ramp-up may have been a little too severe the previous week, as on Tuesday, I'd gotten 400m from the office during an easy lunch run, when something went ping in my calf muscle. I limped back to the office and spent the rest of the day nursing and treating the muscle. Eased up for the next few days and ran 4, 5 and 6 miles, before hitting Roscommon to try and defend my title in the Roscommon Harriers 10 mile race. Once again, a really top-notch race, but I knew as soon as I started my warm-up that there'd be no blaze of glory finish this time around. A number of visitors from far and wide, including Mark Kirwin from Raheny and UltraPercy, as well as some more familiar faces from the previous year had turned up to make sure that there'd be no repeat performance of last year's race. Within a half mile of starting the race, the aforementioned runners had opened a sizable gap and had soon disappeared over the horizon, leaving myself, Adrian and Seamus to fight over the remaining slim pickings. Seamus didn't seem to have a great run and wasn't really in the battle (I use the term very loosely as it was a very amiable experience) for 3rd place, so myself and Adrian ran side by side until we hit around the 9 mile mark when he fell off the pace, leaving me to round off the podium on my own. A few days before the race I'd hoped to have a pop at my PB, but I really had no fight in me and the race order was pretty much decided in the first few metres of the race. So a pretty lacklustre 56:39, a deserved result for my lack of commitment and an easy 21 mile run the following day a suitable punishment.

Week 4: 70 miles and master of nothing
Notable workouts:
3 X (800/400/800 w/~40 secs)/4 mins
6 miles alternating 800@LT/800@MP
I could kind of tell that something was up. I was getting through the sessions (and hitting them pretty well), but feeling pretty groggy. I had signed up for the Masters 5,000m on the track in Tullamore, but following the performance in Roscommon, felt that it just wouldn't be a great outing. I should have pulled the plug there, but part of my commitment for the year was to try and race against good caliber fields, and the M40 competition for this race promised to be a particularly strong one. Well, the race went exactly as I had anticipated - particularly badly. I hung onto the leading pack for the first 1,000m, but soon fell off and found myself in no-man's land. I was still doing pretty ok at the 3k mark (through I've recently gone through 3k far quicker in the middle of training sessions) and then just started to die a death. It was a horrible painful experience and crossing the finish line in 16:24 or so, I just wanted to throw away my running shoes in self-disgust. A real rock-bottom experience. Very much a case of trying to burn the candle at both ends - trying to run good marathon sessions during the week, while still hoping against the odds to pull out a decent 5k time on the track.

Week 5: 58 miles and finally my misery peaked
Tried to run a marathon pace session mid-week but after 4/5 miles, it was a lost cause, and I realized that I was just flogging a dead-horse. Knew I had to take a break and try and re-focus but I had committed to running the 5,000m on the track in Tullamore for the national leagues. I could not picture anything worse that going back to revisit the circumstances of one of my worst performances in my 8 years of running and knew I wouldn't be doing myself or the team any favours, but there wasn't anybody else available, so back down I went with a very heavy heart. It was a strange race with both premier and first division in the same race (so you didn't really know who you were racing against), but again there were some familiar strong runners in the race. It was a pretty windy day and hitting the back-straight was a bit of a slogfest - particularly as I made a strategy error and fell off the pack mid-way through the race, so found myself battling the wind alone, on each lap. A slight improvement on the previous week (16:15 or so), and I managed to make up a few places, but sadly, those places all seemed to belong to runners in the Premier division, so I finished with a pretty miserable 2 points.

July summary: So it was a pretty miserable month from a running perspective. I was itching once more, to immerse myself in the murky waters of high volume marathon training, but I kept getting pulled out of the water to run races that had seemed like a good idea to me some weeks and months earlier, but were, in the context of my marathon training, just not a good idea. This again, is where a coach (or perhaps even an active training log) would have provided useful feedback and direction. Sometimes you're so busy you don't have time to stop and think, though what you're busy doing isn't necessarily the right thing. Every year, I seem to hit this same point though. It's as though I need to hit rock bottom from a running perspective, before I can re-evaluate, as it provides the necessary stimulus to refocus and get my cr@p together. Anyway, we're hitting August and the good times are starting to roll...

Greenmachine

Re June: Sub 5 minute mile only days after a 10k PB, nothing wrong with that.

Krusty_Clown

August catch-up:

Week 1: 3rd - 9th: 100 miles
Monday: 20 miles - split between running down to the DLR race to volunteer and running home afterwards
Tuesday: 5 + 10 easy
Wednesday: 5k shakeout + 35 minute split tempo on the treadmill
After a couple of weeks of dodgy runs, I needed to have a good session, but the weather turned sour on me, so did the one thing I really hate - ran to the gym and hit the treadmill so I could avoid the strong winds. Tempo went fine, but I'm always a little doubtful of the accuracy of the treadmills.
Thursday: 8 hilly miles + 14 miles inc. 6 miles @MP. In hindsight, this was a really, really, bad idea. First run of the day was enjoyable despite some tiredness from the previous evening, but then decided to join my training buddy for a second run in the evening, little realizing he was planning to jump into some MP miles. Figured I could just drop off the pace if I needed to, but manage to stick it out (MP miles between 5:56 and 5:38 depending on the terrain), but the run back to Bray over the Windgates hills nearly killed me. So was a really bad idea, but gave me a bit of a mental boost, following a couple of weeks of negativity.
Friday: 5 miles recovery
Saturday: 21 miles hilly/steady - The famed Glencree loop. Actually didn't find the climb that bad, as I run quite a lot of hills (and have done a number of trail races, training runs and mountain marathons with significantly greater climbs), but I was more weary of the return back to sea-level. training buddy is far stronger on the downhills and my 'ould legs are a little fragile on the downs, so after 15 miles I let him off and applied the breaks a little, despite feeling pretty comfortable. 6:50/mile for the 21 miles was a good result.
Sunday: 5 miles slow recovery

Week 2: 10th - 16th: 100 miles
Monday: 5 + 5.4 + 10 easy
Tuesday: Session: 15 mins @ tempo + 2 x 5 mins @10k effort + 2 x 3 mins @5k effort). Screwed this up pretty royally. Got through the 15 mins @5:32, though it was hard work in the early evening sunshine (also missed lunch which didn't help). Then for some reason figured that 5 mins @10k effort up a steep hill would probably be around 5:30-5:40 mile. That idiocy lasted all of 20 seconds before the hill climb took it's tool. The damage was largely done at that point though, and the pace was a bit fooked for the rest of the session. Still, the idea was to work hard and I certainly achieved that.
Wednesday: 5 + 5 + 10 easy
Thursday: 8.7 miles easy
Friday: 8 miles alternating 800@tempo+5 secs / 800 @MP
Really top-notch session that I can't recommend enough. The tempo (+5 secs) sections are tough, but then you hit MP and it feels a little like you're recovering. A lot of miles on the track (11 in total), but ended up with 8 miles @5:38 which was a great confidence booster, given that I'd had a much harder time of a similar session in a previous outing.
Saturday: 11 miles + 9 miles - Had actually planned a 20 mile run, but arriving in Marley Park with 10 miles done, I felt a significant tightening in my calf (I'm sure a few beers after the previous evening's session didn't help). Didn't want to take any risks, so called for rescue. Later in the afternoon, after some rehydration, foam rolling and tiger balm, I threw on the calf sleeves, and jogged out to Bray to run an errand. Felt ok, and ended up running the missing 9 miles. I'm a stubborn bollix at times.
Sunday: 6.4 recovery jog

Week 3: 17th - 23rd: 86 miles
Monday: 6 + 10 miles easy
Tuesday: 3 mile shakeout + 2 Miles @T / 1 Mile @10K / 6 x hill sprints
Hit the track for this (and had the entire track to myself), and it went pretty well, hitting all of the relevant splits. A slightly shorter workout than usual, given that there's a half marathon in the Magness schedule.
Wednesday: 5 + 10 easy
Thursday: 8 miles easy
Friday: 5/1 mile trail run - Arrived down in Sligo for the Warrior's run, and didn't want to run the race without first having some idea what lay ahead with the Knocknarea hill, so with Outside's GPS tracklog uploaded to the watch I set off. Eventually I found the starting point where you leave the road and start the climb, and I ran/hiked my way over the hill, following the painted arrows along the following day's planned route. Probably not good preparation for a race, but I figured the risk was worth the additional information.
Saturday: Warrior's Run
A few weeks earlier, I'd hoped to give this race a good rattle, but given my worsening form in July, I'd strongly considered abandoning the race, in favour of focusing on the marathon training. In the end, because we were heading down for a family weekend away, I figured I might as well participate. The goal had been to finish in the top 5, until I heard who was running. Ian Conroy, Barry Minnock, Brian Furey and demfad were very likely to take the top spots, with a slew of solid additional runners making up the rearguard. I hoped to stay within touching distance of Seamus of Sligo, as I'd stayed ahead of him in a recent 10 mile race, but here in Sligo he had the experience of having run the race a number of times, and home court advantage. Still, I was surprised when the race started and he led out the field at a very strong clip, given the significant initial climb. I reset my sights on demfad (local to Strandhill), knowing that he'd pace the early miles perfectly (before disappearing once we hit the hill) and was satisfied when we turned off for Knocknarea, that he was just a couple of metres ahead. True to form, he paced his effort perfectly, and lifted the pace as soon as we hit the significant climb. Seamus had fallen back to 4th, so I chased in his wake alongside another Sligo runner. I struggled up the climb, failing to raise the effort levels sufficiently to minimize the gap to the Sligo runners ahead and gradually fell off the pace. This was a big mistake, as no sooner had we hit the summit, then the Sligo runners (knowing the fastest route down the mountain), launched their way over ledges and drops, while I had to pick my way gingerly, slowing to find a route that wouldn't result in a twisted ankles and broken bones.

The Sligo runners disappeared into the distance, as I struggled to pick out the most efficient route. Hitting the technical laneway, I regained a spot I had lost on the descent, and hitting the road, I set off in pursuit, hoping to make up some of the time I had lost on the descent. I had marathon training in my favour as gradually I reeled in the second Sligo runner and passed him as he struggled to maintain the pace in the latter part of the race. Gradually Seamus was coming back to me and arriving back in Strandhill, the gap was down to about 40-50 metres. He got some shouts of advice and encouragement from a watching club-mate and it was enough to lift his spirits enough to prevent me from closing the distance any further as we sped towards the finish line. Seamus took the much-deserved 5th spot, and I followed soon after in 6th.
Sunday: 15 soggy miles - Awful conditions, but lifted the spirits enough to get out for a very wet and windy 15 miles.

Week 4: 24th - 30th: 100 miles
Monday: 5 + 10 miles easy
Tuesday: 9 + 7 miles easy
Wednesday: 5 x 4 mins hills + 6 x 10 sec hill sprints + 15 mile trail run
After the previous less than successful hill rep outing, I decided I'd play by the book for this one, and stick to 10k effort, establishing effort levels based on HR. I haven't done HR-based training in around 5 years, so made for a significant change, but worked out really well, particularly given the incline of Ticknock road. Ran out of time and had to flake it back to work afterwards, which doesn't make for a good cool-down. Met up with Dubgal, Clearlier and Myles Splitz for a long trail run afterwards, clocking up another 15 miles to round off a long but very enjoyable day.
Thursday: 5 + 5.5 miles easy
Friday: 5.1 miles easy
Saturday: Tullamore Half marathon @MP
Plan was to run the Half marathon at around 5:45/mile and see how it felt as a marathon pace. It was a pretty tough day out there with a head-wind for the first 6.5 miles and growing heat in the second half, but just about managed to hang on to the pace, finding that last few miles far tougher than they should have been. Still managed to finish up in 5th place, which was nice, and even bagged a small PB (having missed out on my opportunity to race a HM last year, due to a back injury). Finished up in 1:15:39, happy with the workout given the mileage, but still undecided in terms of my marathon pace.
Sunday: 8.8 miles recovery.

Week 5: 31st Aug - 6th Sept: 100 miles
Monday: 6 + 10 miles easy
Tuesday: 3 mile afternoon shakeout + 16 x 200m @5k pace
Work and home needs meant that I didn't get out for this run until 8:30pm. Arrived down at the cinder track to complete darkness, but the stubbornness prevailed, and I did the session in the dark, occasionally glimpsing the silhouette of the other cinder track runner, trying to make sure I didn't run into him in the pitch black. Depsite the darkness, managed to stay pretty consistent, and most of the 200s were in the 36/37/38 second range.
Wednesday: 3.3 + 12 miles easy
Thursday: 8 miles steady (@6:32/mile) + 10 miles easy
Friday: 5.1 + 5.1 easy
Saturday: 19 miles (5 miles easy followed by 13 mile progression run to MP) - tough one, not made any easier by a few beers the night before, but got it done, hitting MP for the last mile but one, and averaging 6:53 for the entire run.
Sunday: 8.3 mile trail recovery run

pconn062

Great training Gary. I have to ask, given the volume and intensity of your training, are you ever carrying a niggle or small injury? If so, is there a level of pain/discomfort you will tolerate to get the training in (say 2 or 3/10)? Or do you simply not pick up niggles at all? Interested to know how you manage all that training without breaking down.

Krusty_Clown

pconn062 wrote: »

Great training Gary. I have to ask, given the volume and intensity of your training, are you ever carrying a niggle or small injury? If so, is there a level of pain/discomfort you will tolerate to get the training in (say 2 or 3/10)? Or do you simply not pick up niggles at all? Interested to know how you manage all that training without breaking down.

It's actually a question I get quite a bit. It's easier to answer a question like 'why did I get injured' though, rather than 'why didn't I get injured'. Strictly speaking, I'm pretty much always carrying niggles, but you're exactly right - they're in the 2-3/10 range. So at the moment, for example, I have some left shin pain (on-going 2 years), and some lower back pain (since this morning). But I'd put my lack of significant injuries (touch wood), down to a few things:

1) I run every day. This year, there's only been a single day where I didn't run (dirty hangover + trans-Atlantic flight). This year I'm averaging 10/11 miles per day. I've probably had physio-type treatment around 4 times this year, and largely preparatory (before a big race) and very occasionally preventative (worrying niggle).

2) I've built up my mileage and consistency gradually over the last 6-7 years.
2009 - 1,670 miles
2010 - 2,109 miles
2011 - 2,556 miles
2012 - 3,385 miles
2013 - 3,500 miles
2014 - 3,959 miles
2015 - 4,000+?
Have been running 7 days a week for around 3-4 years now.

3) Despite my perceived addiction to GPS watches, I don't watch my pace. Typically the two data fields showing on my watch are 'Time of day' and 'distance'. So for 90% of my mileage, I'm running at a pace that the body finds manageable. The day after a session, I'll check the watch after I finish and it'll show 8 min/mile. the day before a session (after a couple of easy days), it might show 6:50-7 min/mile. So essentially, it comes down to that age old principal of running fast days fast, and slow days slow.

4) I do back off when the niggle threatens to get worse and will hit the foam roller if things get worrying (and physio if really bad).

5) I don't stretch much at all, but I do some core stuff (specifically press-ups in the morning (50), and 1-2 visits to the indoor rock climbing gym every week). The rock climbing certainly improved my overall strength, but I think the press-ups (started on 1st January this year) have really helped me maintain running form in the later part of longer races.

6) I'm a very conservative runner - I will rarely push myself as hard as others do in races. So for example, I can run a half-marathon PB on a Saturday, and do a 18-20 mile easy run on a Sunday, where those who are truly race-committed will struggle to walk the next day. The exception is the marathon, where the will-power and training investment outweighs the need for self-preservation!

7) Healthy food and lots of beer. The healing powers of yeast have yet to be fully discovered!

Sorry for the long bulleted response - but like I said, it's a tough one to answer, and is probably down to a combination of the above. It may turn out that I've just been luckier than I should have been and some day it'll all catch up with me. But until then, I'll continue to believe that it's largely down to consistency.

pconn062

Thanks for the detailed response. I was curious to know I suppose your attitude to handling the inevitable niggles that crop up. It's a fine balancing act between continuing to manage a niggle while still training and pushing the limits and causing a real injury. Something I'm trying to get right myself the whole time. Good luck with the rest of the plan.

TRR_the_turd

Great training of late!

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

7) Healthy food and lots of beer. The healing powers of yeast have yet to be fully discovered!

You're definitely onto to something. There is actually lots of scientific literature and a multibillion industry built around yeast extract and animal health.

tang1

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

6) I'm a very conservative runner - I will rarely push myself as hard as others do in races. So for example, I can run a half-marathon PB on a Saturday, and do a 18-20 mile easy run on a Sunday, where those who are truly race-committed will struggle to walk the next day. The exception is the marathon, where the will-power and training investment outweighs the need for self-preservation!
.

Are you saying you hold back somewhat in races? Running a PB while running conservative is some going. Would you not be curious to flog yourself in the odd race to see where it gets you?

Krusty_Clown

tang1 wrote: »

Are you saying you hold back somewhat in races? Running a PB while running conservative is some going. Would you not be curious to flog yourself in the odd race to see where it gets you?

I'll certainly flog myself in many races (like the 5k races earlier this year), and like I said, every marathon I run is absolute commitment, but largely I'm a pretty conservative racer - meaning I'll nearly always run a negative split, gradually increasing the effort level as I progress through the race, and reaching maximum exertion levels in the final quarter of the race. Others are happy to flog themselves from the start of a race, but that just doesn't work as well for me. May be a fast twitch/slow twitch thing, a central governor thing, lung function, or simple self-preservation. Who knows - but it works for me, so I'm not going to try and change it too much.

tang1

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I'll certainly flog myself in many races (like the 5k races earlier this year), and like I said, every marathon I run is absolute commitment, but largely I'm a pretty conservative racer - meaning I'll nearly always run a negative split, gradually increasing the effort level as I progress through the race, and reaching maximum exertion levels in the final quarter of the race. Others are happy to flog themselves from the start of a race, but that just doesn't work as well for me. May be a fast twitch/slow twitch thing, a central governor thing, lung function, or simple self-preservation. Who knows - but it works for me, so I'm not going to try and change it too much.

Get you now, ultrapercy mentioned something similar before about gradually building into a race/workout rather than blowing yourself out of the water by going to hard from the off.

Greenmachine

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I'll certainly flog myself in many races (like the 5k races earlier this year), and like I said, every marathon I run is absolute commitment, but largely I'm a pretty conservative racer - meaning I'll nearly always run a negative split, gradually increasing the effort level as I progress through the race, and reaching maximum exertion levels in the final quarter of the race. Others are happy to flog themselves from the start of a race, but that just doesn't work as well for me. May be a fast twitch/slow twitch thing, a central governor thing, lung function, or simple self-preservation. Who knows - but it works for me, so I'm not going to try and change it too much.

Always interesting to hear how someone more experienced approaches their races.

neilc

What'd you think of the warriors run Krusty, I think its been on your to do list for a while now?

Krusty_Clown

neilc wrote: »

What'd you think of the warriors run Krusty, I think its been on your to do list for a while now?

It was a cracker. Love those races where the whole town and community get involved (like Connemara, Ballycotton, etc), and they do it in style in Sligo, marrying it with the festival for the entire weekend. The race itself is pretty tough. It has a bit of an identity crisis - not quite a road race, not quite a hill race, but that's what makes it unique and special. A really strong hill runner will always win out on this course over a really strong road runner (as hill runners can still run fast on the road, while road runners don't necessarily make good hill runners), but it's a blast for any kind of runner. Highly recommended. In terms of how I performed - not the best. Had hoped to do better. But then I'm a road runner. I always promise myself I'll do more hill races, but inevitably commit to the next 5k, 10 mile or marathon road race.

AuldManKing

Looking at your Strava, its amazing to see how "easy" it seems to knock out 100m weeks, as you do a lot of doubles or even triples.

Do you think you get value out of every run or would there be some 'junk' in there (but junk that you are happy with 'cos you like running )

Krusty_Clown

AuldManKing wrote: »

Looking at your Strava, its amazing to see how "easy" it seems to knock out 100m weeks, as you do a lot of doubles or even triples.

Do you think you get value out of every run or would there be some 'junk' in there (but junk that you are happy with 'cos you like running )

I don't actually do a lot of triples. I think I've done two this year, in order to bulk up the mileage in the early parts of this plan, to get 20 miles done in a day, without the associated wear and tear. You may be looking at my races in Strava, which have a warmup/cooldown. But yes. Lots of doubles. That's how you run higher mileage, as running 15 to 20 mile singles, 7 days per week, would carry too significant a physical cost.

What are junk miles? Often, it's a term coined by those who are looking for a reason to justify why they didn't go out for that recovery run when the rain looked a little heavy, or when that 10 mile easy run clashed with that La Liga classico everybody in the office has been talking about. But more seriously, if the term 'junk miles' is to have a useful definition, it would be 'unplanned miles that have no specific purpose or benefit'. In that context, do I run junk miles? I would suggest that by that definition, I run few. Does that mean that all of my miles are planned? Absolutely not. I had no intention of running as many miles as I did this week. Today was supposed to be an 8 to 10 mile recovery run, but when I got an opportunity to do a long easy run with company this morning in a scenic setting, I jumped on it. That brought me up to my highest ever weekly mileage, but that was an unfortunate by-product, rather than a goal. I'd have been just as happy sticking to my 100 mile target. Did that run have a purpose and a benefit? Absolutely - it is after all a marathon I am training for. I thought long and hard before agreeing to do the run, and even then, put together a number of contingencies, should I need to shorten the run, or begin to feel worsening niggles.

I don't sit at home on a Friday evening, thinking 'man, I wish I could just sneak out for another 10 easy miles'. Quite the opposite. These days, the focus is 'what is the minimum amount of training I can do, that will still allow me to give my rather agressive goal a good rattle?' 'What do I need to do, to make sure that I feel strong towards then end of the race and am in a position to maintain that pace, or even push on?' Or 'I've run 13 miles at marathon pace and it was hard - how do I make the necessary adaptations so that I can run at that pace for longer, or have it feel easier?'

The plan I'm following is aimed at better runners than me, with weekly mileage targets in the 120-130 range. The reason the plan has this volume of mileage is, to give you the strength and conditioning to handle the workouts and the demands of the race itself. So I'm running well short of the suggested volume, but so far, I'm hanging in there. Will it work out? Who the hell knows. Ask me again in 6 weeks. But if I fail, it wont be for lack of trying, or commitment. I've run three sub 2:40 marathons at this stage, seven marathons under 2:50, and lordy know how many under three hours. I'ver never been coached (beyond some imparted words of wisdom from some folks around here, and others who are part of the club), so I have some idea of what stimulus is required in order to get reasonable results out of this old frame.

Are there days when I would have been better off watching El classico? I'm sure there are, but the benefits of those runs isn't always physical stimulus. I'm still trying to push forward because I still enjoy running and the challenge of improving. If I didn't, I like to think I'd have given up, several thousand miles ago!