Send in the Clowns - BAC 10K Challenge

tang1

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Hi John, the course isn't bad at all. There are a couple of bumps that do throw you off your stride, but as long as you keep something in the tank up to the 4 mile mark, you will make it over them fine, without much fuss. If you're racing to your limits from the start, then there'a a risk that they much push you into the red zone. Here's the course profile form last year. As you can see, the first couple of miles are fast as they have a gentle decline. The tendency is to get comfortable at a pace faster than you can handle, and then try to carry that pace over the second half (which can end in a world of pain). For myself, I'll probably go out at target pace for the first couple of miles, ease back a little from 4-5 miles and then hopefully pick it up for the fast final 1.2 miles. If you don't run the first half too fast, there's usually other runners to chase down over the last couple of miles. Hope that helps! See you there!

The road surface as you make the second right turn and head back for Dunshaughlin is in a shocking state and getting worse, some big potholes that could do a man a serious injury. It lasts about .75 of a mile so bear that in mind as i doubt it will be repaired before the race.

Itziger

That sounds like a tough one alright. Interesting to see you're new to pyramids. I did something along these lines recently, albeit at my more modest pace! I did the 1k@5k pace, the 2k@10k pace and the 3k@Half pace. I like the fact that you can tell the body 'hey, it's longer but it's easier pace' and then as you come back down the pyramid you change it to 'sure it's faster but it's a lot shorter'.

Works for me anyway. I would love to have a bit of company though on sessions like that. The temptation to 'adapt' the session half way through is immense.

RayCun

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Speaking of which - anyone have any tips for racing long distances on the track? As it's a time-trial for me, rather than a race, should I be checking splits ever lap? Every other lap? Will there be a clock on track and how do you calculate for the extra 200m?

get used to loneliness
there's a clock at the finish line, and a lap counter (which tracks the lead runner, but shouldn't be a problem for you)
You will check your splits every lap, you can't not look when you're passing. All your splits will be within a few seconds of each other anyway, so you're only looking at the last digit

menoscemo

I see the Sonia 5k FB page just put out a post with the route and it's still the old 4.5k one!

Krusty_Clown

menoscemo wrote: »

I see the Sonia 5k FB page just put out a post with the route and it's still the old 4.5k one!

I'm sure some helpful steward will be along to point out the folly of their ways!

BeepBeep67

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Speaking of which - anyone have any tips for racing long distances on the track? As it's a time-trial for me, rather than a race, should I be checking splits ever lap? Every other lap? Will there be a clock on track and how do you calculate for the extra 200m?

******

2 mile warm-up.
1km in 3:13 (~5:11/mile)
400m jog
2km in 6:31 (~5:15/mile)
600m jog
3km in 9:43 (~5:13/mile)
800m jog
2km in 6:30 (~5:14/mile)
600m jog
1km in 3:15 (~5:14/mile)
400m jog
Savagely tough session, but a great feeling to get it done at that pace.

You looked strong last night and seemed to recover well (or you're good at hiding it ) - savage indeed.

5k on the track will go surprisingly fast, presume you are targeting sub 15:45?
Decent 1st 200 and assuming you can finish fast - 35 secs for each of those, leaves 76 sec laps.
Someone should be calling lap splits at the start point, so have in your head what you want to hear lap 1 1:13, lap 2 needs to end in 9, etc. Then check your k splits.

Marthastew

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I'm sure some helpful steward will be along to point out the folly of their ways!

I just checked out the new route raycun mentioned above; 3.15miles on my garmin but another little bump thrown in (we run up the oneway road that goes to Sandycove beach). Good call to give it a miss Krusty, not a PB course (not that I'd be anywhere near mine!)
Best of luck with the track 5K:)

ultrapercy

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Hi John, the course isn't bad at all. There are a couple of bumps that do throw you off your stride, but as long as you keep something in the tank up to the 4 mile mark, you will make it over them fine, without much fuss. If you're racing to your limits from the start, then there'a a risk that they much push you into the red zone. Here's the course profile form last year. As you can see, the first couple of miles are fast as they have a gentle decline. The tendency is to get comfortable at a pace faster than you can handle, and then try to carry that pace over the second half (which can end in a world of pain). For myself, I'll probably go out at target pace for the first couple of miles, ease back a little from 4-5 miles and then hopefully pick it up for the fast final 1.2 miles. If you don't run the first half too fast, there's usually other runners to chase down over the last couple of miles. Hope that helps! See you there!

Thanks Gary, that's very useful. Your own training seems to be going very well, I'd say your about to push on again.See you in Dunshaughlin for the old man showdown.

KielyUnusual

I've always been tempted to try the lap by position function on the Garmin in a long track race. Would it be worthwhile maybe trying it on the cinder track to judge its accuracy and then go for it in the race if its effective. Should be someone calling out the time on 200ms, especially in a championship race but the maths might become difficult after 5 or 6 laps.

Notwork Error

Breaking it into 800's might be easier and leave the extra 200m until the end. You'll be starting on the 200m mark on the back straight so take that as your mark for checking, it'll only get confusing if you start taking lap splits from the finishline as you have to take into account what you ran for the first 200. There should be someone calling splits at the 200 mark on the back straight as that will be the official lap.

Krusty_Clown

KielyUnusual wrote: »

I've always been tempted to try the lap by position function on the Garmin in a long track race. Would it be worthwhile maybe trying it on the cinder track to judge its accuracy and then go for it in the race if its effective. Should be someone calling out the time on 200ms, especially in a championship race but the maths might become difficult after 5 or 6 laps.

Yeah.. I just wouldn't bother with that at all. Given that the typical accuracy of any particular GPS track-point could be anywhere in a 5-30m radius and the potential for error, you wouldn't want to be making pacing decisions based on what you're reading. Sounds like more of a beer mile strategy!

Network Error wrote:

Breaking it into 800's might be easier and leave the extra 200m until the end.

Yeah, was thinking along those lines. Don't want to be relying on my maths at 5k pace, so will probably take 800m splits from the 200m mark. Probably healthier not to count all 12 laps anyway!

dna_leri

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Yeah.. I just wouldn't bother with that at all. Given that the typical accuracy of any particular GPS track-point could be anywhere in a 5-30m radius and the potential for error, you wouldn't want to be making pacing decisions based on what you're reading. Sounds like more of a beer mile strategy!


Yeah, was thinking along those lines. Don't want to be relying on my maths at 5k pace, so will probably take 800m splits from the 200m mark. Probably healthier not to count all 12 laps anyway!

If it was me I would want to count every lap because I would never remember if I counted the last one or not. I'd click the "lap" function on my stop watch every time I passed the finish but not necessarily look every time, then have a few important split points in my head e.g. for the 1 & 3 KM splits. I'd never depend on the guy shouting the splits to be there for 16+ mins constantly calling times! But then again I rarely run more than 2 laps so what would I know.

Krusty_Clown

Thursday: 8 miles hilly easy run @7:25/mile
Friday: 6 miles @7:49/mile + 6 miles @7:29/mile

Saturday: 2.3 mile legs flush + Session: 1 x 800/2x400/2x200 @5k -> 1 Mile
Dunno quite why I went out for a 2 mile jog two hours before this session. Probably because I'd been awake for hours and was bored; partially because it's become a habit before these sessions and partially because my legs have been in pretty bad shape since that tough 10k session the previous Tuesday. In any case, 90 minutes later, I headed to a largely deserted track (just a few DSD sprinters and later on, the Brittons for company). This should have been a taper type session, so I was fully expecting it to be pretty easy - that confidence-inducing 'pah - 5k pace is soooo easy' kind of feeling that lets you know you're good and ready for your goal race. But this week, I've been feeling all but ready, with the legs in a bit of a jock. Should have brought in the big guns and gone for some form of sports massage, but like every other session, I figured I'd battle through it instead and would be fine in a few days. I managed to get through it, but 5k pace felt anything but easy, and the residual feeling was 'how the hell am I going to keep this pace going for almost 16 minutes?'. So not the best outcome from the final session in the Magness 5K plan. I need to remind myself on occasion that following a 6 month training plan isn't just about those last 16 minutes on the track, but rather it's about the improvements you make as a runner. I've already run PBs over 3k, 5k, 5 mile and 10 mile, so the rest is just icing (but man, would I like to get me some of that icing!).
800m = 2:26
400m/400m = 73 / 71
200m/200m = 36 / 34
(with 300m / 200m jog between reps).
Summary around 9 miles

For the afternoon, I headed off to a bouldering competition with my son. Great fun, but despite the fact that I would home come pretty much last, I strained a lot of muscles which didn't help my cause and spent the next few days wondering if I had screwed up any chances of running a good race on Wednesday. Followed up with a visit to the beer mile stadium for the annual drink-run fest, and yes, the beer mile really is a great spectator sport. In some ways I had massive regrets about not participating, but watching the carnage at the end of the race, I knew I had made the right choice. There'll be lots of time for drinking and running, if the next few days pan out the way I hope that they will.

Sunday: 9 miles with strides
A lot of pain after the previous day's climbing competition. Worried. But strides felt good.

Monday: 7 miles easy
Things starting to look up a little as the pain/stiffness subsided, but still not enjoying the running, or feeling that 'coiled spring' race readiness. Have been watching the diet for the last 8-9 days (with the drop in mileage), and eating only healthy foods. Current weight is around 11 st 3 (157 lbs / 71 kgs). Would rather be three pounds lighter, but am carrying some rock climbing/core strength muscle, so probably in relatively good shape.

Tuesday: 4 miles with strides
Feeling tired, but the body is a lot more stretchy today. Kind of regretting the fact that I haven't done a track race this year. Should have done something like a 3,000m graded meet, just to make sure I got a bit of practice in. I don't have the same level of confidence I'd have going into a road race. In a road race, you are inexorably drawn towards the finish. But on the track?? It feels like there are many ways to screw up this race, but only one way to get it right. Time will tell.
Summary: 4 miles

Krusty_Clown

Over the last day or two, I put a lot of pressure on myself and this race was fast becoming my own personal Olympic qualifier. I tried to convince myself that it wasn't so much about the result as much as the journey, but it just didn't stick. 6 months of training weighed heavy on my conscience. It was with some relief that I finally left the house for Santry, having done everything pretty much right for the last 3-4 days. I did a two mile run at lunch-time, and despite the easy pace was bathed in sweat, a worrying indication of the high humidity, but thankfully, arriving out in Santry, the air seemed cool and the breeze brought the slightest of chills. Checked in upstairs (the graded meets organizers really are the nicest bunch of people you will meet anywhere in this fair land) and signed my name somewhere down the bottom of a long list that started strongly with ecoli, before the standard dropped rapidly, with Mick Clohisey, Sean Hehir, and David Flynn making up the rearguard. Looking down the list, getting lapped was a real possibility, but there were enough runners across a range of standards that I'd most certainly have someone to chase.

Warming up with ecoli, Chris and Wolfie took the sting out of the intimidation I felt running in our national athletics stadium for the first time and it was great to chat to Dubgal, RunningKing, and my training buddy before the race kicked off. I'm not one of those runners who psychs themselves up for a race, but rather the type of runner who psychs themselves down, preferring everything as low key as possible (my pre-race car mix-tape includes such upbeat bands as Radiohead, Sigur Rós, Air and Bon Iver). So I was nicely chilled by 8:56pm, when we were called to the far-side of the track. A final few strides and I slotted in just behind the first wave. Given the standard, I don't think it really mattered where I started.

Goal: For the last 6 months I had trained for a 15:30 5,000m race. I really didn't believe I was capable of achieving that time, but felt that I'd be selling my training short, if I didn't at least go for it. Perhaps the track might imbue some 'magical sauce' ingredient that had been missing from my other races, that might offer me those extra 18 seconds that I failed to achieve on the road. There were no hills, no potholes, no poor traction, just running loops of a kind, forgiving track.

Strategy: I woke at 4am the night of the race, with a stream of consciousness running through my head that went.. 37, 74, 2:28.... 37, 74, 2:28.... 37, 74, 2:28..... That repeated intermittently for a couple of hours.. Those were the planned splits. It didn't matter who was in front, or who was behind, I was going for those splits and that was my sole focus.

Race:
There may have been a gun, there may have been a whistle or even a clap of hands. All I remember is that something triggered in my brain and we lurched forwards as one, avoiding spiked feet and sharpened elbows. Within 30m we had fallen into line, and at a guess, I found myself somewhere around 15th position (of maybe 25 runners). My immediate goal was to get an inside-lane position, and though I had to run in lane 2 to get there, I overtook a couple of runners and settled into lane 1, just behind a Donore Runner. Plan was to hit the 200m mark and check my pace. I hit the lap button... 35 seconds. Too fast. But that was ok. Everyone had started fast and after checking times on the clock, the pace became a little more calculated, a little more controlled. Hitting the 200m mark on the back-straight, I heard the split called out as 75 seconds, and was happy enough that we had settled into a more achievable target. I was willing to surrender some seconds in the earlier laps in the hopes of a strong finish. If the strong finish wasn't there? It meant I was fooked anyway.

Not much happened for the next lap or two as we settled into the pace. We passed a Rathfarnham runner who was breathing heavy, but otherwise it was a case of staying as comfortable as possible. I was hitting the lap button on my watch as we crossed the finish line on each lap, and checking it briefly on the bend. Early splits were: 75, 74, 76, 76, and we went through the first mile in around 4:58.

It was around this stage that things started to get much tougher and I began to realize the rising challenge that lay ahead. All plans to keep an eye on my splits during the race went out the window. I was still hitting the lap button, but either I no longer had the mental function required to look at the watch, or I decided that less information was better; but in any case, I stopped looking at the watch and just focused on maintaining the gap between me and the next runner. Occasionally my foot got clipped, and I glared backwards angrily. If I could avoid the guy in front, there was no reason the trailing runner had to clip my feet. A sizable gap had opened up in front of the Donore runner (John Dunne), who was in the unfortunate position of taking the head-wind on the back-straight, but had I wanted to, I couldn't have overtaken him to share the workload. Eventually a couple of Rathfarnham runners (who seemed to have great strength working as a team) overtook both of us, and instead, we chased in their wake. Approximate splits: 76, 76, 76, 77.

At this stage, I was in a world of pain. I had no idea what distance we had covered or what lay ahead. I just wanted it to finish, in the quickest way possible. The announcer was keeping the crowd updated with respect to the leading pack's progress, and it really didn't help. 'The leaders have 1600m to go'. Bastards.... That was the only thought I could summon.. Occasionally, I'd glance left, to try and spot the pointy end of the race, but all I could see was a red singlet. That wasn't 'The Claw' or Sean Hehir. Where was the front of the race?

I found the front of the race a couple of laps later (76, 77, 77) as Mick Clohisey caught me and passed me, as he headed down the home-straight for a well-earned, but easy looking victory. For my part, I was in 'a bad place'. You know that movie 'Requiem for a Dream', at the stage of the movie, where the music speeds up and the scenes shift from human misery to human tragedy? That's exactly how I was feeling. I would have given anything to quit.... 800m seemed like forever. Times were inconsequential. My central governor was kicking in and survival was a priority. There was some swapping of places, but to me it was inconsequential, as I now existed on a higher level of existence, where making sure that the next breath followed the one that had passed seemed like the major priority.

Eventually those before me sorted themselves out in some order that will reveal itself on electronic paper in the next 12 hours. For my part, I dissolved into that lactic hell that I thought you could only experience in a badly run 400m race. I managed to pick up the pace for my final lap, down to around 72 seconds (to be confirmed), but crossed the finish line in a previously un-experienced level of discomfort. I just about held on to the finish line and pressed some random buttons on my watch, that both failed to tell me what my final time was, and failed to suggest whether I should be happy or disappointed. My gut feeling was that the second two thirds of the race were not good. I settled into a pack (with good reason, as I didn't have the physical capability to do otherwise), and just hung on to the finish. My training buddy had been keeping my splits on the sideline and had recorded a 15:48, to match my current PB.

I couldn't wait. After an unbearable 5 minutes of returning the body to a normal state of being, I climbed the steps up to the official timing office, and asked gingerly, if they had the result from the A race. The... most.. helpful... official.... in..... the..... world.... who had been packing up to go home after a long night, eagerly put his armfuls of documentation back down on the table, opened his manila folder, and started sifting through the results sheets. Three times he went through those sheets from start to finish, before finally settling on the right sheet. The first 10-12 results were printed, but there it was in blue ball-point hand-writing. 15:47:xx. I wished at that point that I had a camera - both to record the occasion (and the number of mili-seconds), and also to prevent the inevitable up-rounding on the result sheet, but there it was in print. A PB. Less than a second, over the 5,000m distance, but a PB nonetheless. My 8 day beer-drought was at an end. The PB beer was saved.

Kind of tough to celebrate 6 thousand miles of hard training, for a 5 second improvement over 5k (wow, when you put it like that?!), but I don't think that the numbers necessarily paint the entire picture. I feel faster. I'm hoping that this hard work will pay off over the longer distances (which was always the point). Bur can I put myself through the ringer again, for what might be a 2 second PB the next time? Ouch... When you put it like that?......
Summary: 5,000m in 15:47.xx

belcarra

Some report there G, fair play on a brave performance!
I was out in the park at the back of the track doing an easy run and thought briefly about going into the track to see if I knew anybody racing.
Had I known this momentous occasion was happening in a parallel dimension, just a few metres away I'd definitely have gone for a look!
As it was, I figured I was only missing a Wednesday night session by AMK!!

Any thoughts on going for a follow-up 5k attempt in a week or two in case you had a little more to squeeze out of you on another night?

Notwork Error

Great report KC! Pity you didn't get the result you were looking for.

Don't sweat it on the small PB. Money in the bank and a lot of tough yards put in that will stand to you even if you don't think so right now. I thought Cam Levins made a brilliant analogy after having a huge breakthrough a couple of years ago:


"a stone cutter may hit a stone 99 times with seemingly no effect, but on the 100th strike the stone splits clean in half. It's not the 100th strike that cut the stone. The 100th strike was just the culmination of the effort of all the previous strikes."

I wouldn't give up hope on the 5k just yet. When you get to your level, the gains are going to be tough but I wouldn't judge it on one training cycle. You see it all the time when athletes change coach and approach and there is an adjustment period and the reults don't come immediately, They often take 2 or 3 cycles.

I don't mean this in a harsh way as 6000miles is unreal in my book but 7-8 months is a relatively short period in a running plus the fact that I think you would've run a lot faster if you had more long distance track experience. 15:48 for 5k on the road suggests there is a lot more in the tank to be gained on the track than 1 second or maybe you peaked a little early? but there's definitely room for improvement.

You know best but I wouldn't write off another shot at the 5k so quickly and in the moment.

On a different but similar note, How did you find the Magness plan overall? Any changes you would make if you were to do it again to suit yourself?

Outside

Nice report KC, enjoyed reading it. Well done on your new PB, more in ya for sure.
Only recently following your log and very interesting to see your progress, going to attempt JD plan for Dublin so I'll be referring your your log a fair bit, very helpful!

TFBubendorfer

That's some race report, puts you on a different existentialist plane altogether.
Great running too, btw!

Krusty_Clown

belcarra wrote: »

Any thoughts on going for a follow-up 5k attempt in a week or two in case you had a little more to squeeze out of you on another night?

It's mad the way that you can run 5k on the road and 5,000m on the track with no clock watching (after the first couple of laps) and end up with a near identical finish time (down to 10ths of a second). Logic would suggest that I should have run faster on the track, but in perfect conditions (but for a slight head-wind down the back-straight)... I didn't... The only thing I could have done differently that might have yielded improvements, was to wear spikes, but with Dunshaughlin 10k on Saturday, that would have been unwise (I'm greedily hoping to run a good time on Saturday!). Yesterday's race was a lot harder (from a cardio perspective) than the 5k on the road, which I'm finding hard to rationalize. It was certainly warmer (and I tend to be affected by increases in temperature/humidity), so I'd need near-perfect conditions and a perfect field, were I to run any better in the short term, and that's too much to ask for.

Notwork Error wrote:

"a stone cutter may hit a stone 99 times with seemingly no effect, but on the 100th strike the stone splits clean in half. It's not the 100th strike that cut the stone. The 100th strike was just the culmination of the effort of all the previous strikes."

I wouldn't give up hope on the 5k just yet. When you get to your level, the gains are going to be tough but I wouldn't judge it on one training cycle. You see it all the time when athletes change coach and approach and there is an adjustment period and the reults don't come immediately, They often take 2 or 3 cycles.

Cheers Notwork Error. That is indeed a damn fine way of looking at the situation. I'll certainly have more cracks at the 5k distance, but more than likely on the road, rather than the track. I can't say that I really enjoyed the track experience. That may be largely down to the suffering, but I just love road racing so the Rathfarnham 5k may be an opportunity to have another go (albeit in the midst of longer distance training).

Magness plan: This was my second run through of the plan, and once again, I really enjoyed it and found it very beneficial (more than the results would suggest!). I skipped the strength endurance hill sessions, as I didn't feel that I got a lot out of them the last time (which may be down to how I performed the workouts, rather than anything else), but otherwise pretty much stuck to the plan (with some additional races thrown in for good measure). Some of those sessions are pretty complicated, and like last time, I think would be easier to complete, if you had a track-side coach telling you what to do. Some of the sessions are also pretty damn tough, and would undoubtedly be made easier by having someone going through those same sessions with you, but that's a very unlikely scenario, given the specificity of the plan and the sessions. So if you're going to follow the plan, be prepared for a world of solo pain. Is it worth it? Absolutely. Again, the numbers don't tell the full story. I'm certainly a better runner for having completed the plan a second time. I don't think I'd run through it a third time, as I think variety is critical (from both an interest and physical perspective), but for anyone looking for solid improvements in the 5k distance I'd heartily recommend structuring your plan around it. Worth bearing in mind that I've gone from a 16:30 down to 15:47 in the last 18 months, by running through this plan a couple of times.

belcarra

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

It's mad the way that you can run 5k on the road and 5,000m on the track with no clock watching (after the first couple of laps) and end up with a near identical finish time (down to 10ths of a second). Logic would suggest that I should have run faster on the track, but in perfect conditions (but for a slight head-wind down the back-straight)... I didn't...

What did your Garmin clock it at, as I heard the course was long!;)

squiredanaher

Was'nt it Bubka who used to chip off the tiniest amount off the pole vault WR each time so as to max up on his WR breaking bonuses!
Same as you really, with the pb beers. ! nice plan.

enjoyed the race report.

Larry Brent

Hi Krusty,

What a great run, you're an inspiration!

Don't give up on the track just yet. For one you could eek 10s out of that time from pacing alone. Pop your splits in here and see: http://timescalculator.appspot.com/optimizer

Will work out what you could have run off perfectly even splits or energy expenditure, i.e if you didn't waste too much energy with a 35s 1st 200 and have too much energy left for a 72s last lap. Clearly it's simply a theoretical mathematical model, but food for thought.

Secondly, as Jerry Kiernan says, running is the purest of all the sports and I'll take that further and say track running is the purest form of running. No questions about course length (other than the odd track in Firenze or China!), favourable winds, hills etc. But mentally it is tougher, much tougher than the road. In that respect I think you just need to race track more - commit to a track season, run an early 5000m (there's no 5k on the track!), a 1500 and a 3000 and then another couple of 5000s and you'll nail one of them. While mentally tougher, it's got to be easier physically than the road. I've had some sufferfests in 10000m track races, but one time I had the easiest pb of my life. There were 4 of us gunning for the same time and we agreed to take 2 laps each. Everyone got the splits bang on so it was a case of run 2 laps then follow the lads for 6, everyone had 2 goes and it was race on, felt like we warmed up for 4 miles then had a 2 mile race, it was great. Embrace the track!!!

Well done man, keep it going!

yaboya1

Super stuff Krusty.
A pb of any size at the level you're at must be pretty sweet.
I'm sure you'll beat the equivalent McMillan marathon time on your next go (as you usually do).
Well done.

Chivito550

Well written report as usual and great result. Strong finish also to be able to up the pace like that for the last lap. How much of the pain you were experiencing was physical and how much of it was mental anguish of having to run 12.5 laps of a track, boring scenery etc? Is a track 5000m something you see yourself doing again?

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Kind of tough to celebrate 6 thousand miles of hard training, for a 5 second improvement over 5k (wow, when you put it like that?!), but I don't think that the numbers necessarily paint the entire picture. I feel faster. I'm hoping that this hard work will pay off over the longer distances (which was always the point). Bur can I put myself through the ringer again, for what might be a 2 second PB the next time? Ouch... When you put it like that?......
Summary: 5,000m in 15:47.xx

This part I really empathise with. I go through the same thoughts. I've put so much into this training cycle since last September and feel like I've had no luck as of yet with regards bad weather, Irishtown closure and other things. The thoughts of not improving on the PB by the end of the season would be gutting. But 5 seconds over 5k is more significant than you might think. It equates to about 0.3 over 400m. If I end up improving my PB this season by that amount, despite being well off the initial target I set (much like the initial target you set), then I'd have to be very happy. An old coach of mine said "process, not outcome". I think being proud of the work put in is just as important as the joy that comes from a big PB. Trying to come around to that mindset myself these days. I used to let a few hundredths of a second be the difference between me being overjoyed and pissed off.

menoscemo

Well deserved Post of The Day!!

ultrapercy

Great running Gary, closing out with a 72 second lap is fantastic and an indication of good things to come over 10k and longer. Good luck I Dunshaughlin unfortunately I won't be there now as I'm laid low with man flu.

Krusty_Clown

Cheers John. Official results have been published. 15:47.97. You couldn't make it up! Three hundredths of a second. Just as well Precision Timing don't publish milliseconds, or my PB might have been indiscriminately wiped from existence! The three runners ahead of me made 6+ seconds on me on the final lap, so that puts things into perspective.

Sorry to hear that you won't make Dunshaughlin. The ould' lads are dropping like flies! Look after that man flu. No doubt it would kill a lesser man.

TRR_the_turd

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Cheers John. Official results have been published. 15:47.97. You couldn't make it up! Three hundredths of a second. Just as well Precision Timing don't publish milliseconds, or my PB might have been indiscriminately wiped from existence!

15.47.96. Don't want you doing yourself out of an additional hundredth of a second PB Well done, great run

dna_leri

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

It's mad the way that you can run 5k on the road and 5,000m on the track with no clock watching (after the first couple of laps) and end up with a near identical finish time (down to 10ths of a second). Logic would suggest that I should have run faster on the track, but in perfect conditions (but for a slight head-wind down the back-straight)... I didn't... The only thing I could have done differently that might have yielded improvements, was to wear spikes, but with Dunshaughlin 10k on Saturday, that would have been unwise (I'm greedily hoping to run a good time on Saturday!). Yesterday's race was a lot harder (from a cardio perspective) than the 5k on the road, which I'm finding hard to rationalize. It was certainly warmer (and I tend to be affected by increases in temperature/humidity), so I'd need near-perfect conditions and a perfect field, were I to run any better in the short term, and that's too much to ask for.


Cheers Notwork Error. That is indeed a damn fine way of looking at the situation. I'll certainly have more cracks at the 5k distance, but more than likely on the road, rather than the track. I can't say that I really enjoyed the track experience. That may be largely down to the suffering, but I just love road racing so the Rathfarnham 5k may be an opportunity to have another go (albeit in the midst of longer distance training).

Magness plan: This was my second run through of the plan, and once again, I really enjoyed it and found it very beneficial (more than the results would suggest!). I skipped the strength endurance hill sessions, as I didn't feel that I got a lot out of them the last time (which may be down to how I performed the workouts, rather than anything else), but otherwise pretty much stuck to the plan (with some additional races thrown in for good measure). Some of those sessions are pretty complicated, and like last time, I think would be easier to complete, if you had a track-side coach telling you what to do. Some of the sessions are also pretty damn tough, and would undoubtedly be made easier by having someone going through those same sessions with you, but that's a very unlikely scenario, given the specificity of the plan and the sessions. So if you're going to follow the plan, be prepared for a world of solo pain. Is it worth it? Absolutely. Again, the numbers don't tell the full story. I'm certainly a better runner for having completed the plan a second time. I don't think I'd run through it a third time, as I think variety is critical (from both an interest and physical perspective), but for anyone looking for solid improvements in the 5k distance I'd heartily recommend structuring your plan around it. Worth bearing in mind that I've gone from a 16:30 down to 15:47 in the last 18 months, by running through this plan a couple of times.

Well done on the result Gary. That's a very solid improvement in just 2 cycles with coach Magness. When you started that plan, we had roughly similar times for 5K but you have moved into a different league now. There is no reason to think that your progress is finished, although I know it's harder to see where the improvement will come from. 15:30 is still within reach.

Have you considered one more attempt on the track, maybe at the National Masters in 5 weeks time? You would be favourite to win your category and maybe some of the younger guys could drag you to a faster time also. Last year's results here:
http://www.athleticsireland.ie/downloads/eshop/Master_Men_Track.pdf

Krusty_Clown

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

15.47.96. Don't want you doing yourself out of an additional hundredth of a second PB Well done, great run

Woop! A 33% improvement in my PB! Cheers!

Chivito wrote:

How much of the pain you were experiencing was physical and how much of it was mental anguish of having to run 12.5 laps of a track, boring scenery etc? Is a track 5000m something you see yourself doing again?

At 72-77 second laps, you don't get much time to appreciate the scenery! I was fine for the first 4 laps, but after that, had just enough cognitive function to hear someone (located near the bend) give me several shouts of encouragement during later laps. No idea who it was, but thank you! It was just enough to keep the spirits above the 'line from which there is no safe return'. The pain was all cardio, though later it became muscular as well. My heart rate hit 181bpm, which is a couple of beats beyond what I thought was my max heart rate.

I think the reason I didn't enjoy it as much as other races, was that it was a time-trial, rather than a positional race. I slotted into a position which I felt would be most beneficial towards my time-based result, and basically sat-in for the entire race. In some ways, I think I surrendered control, and that may be something I'm not entirely comfortable with. I could perhaps have shifted position earlier in the race, but after 4/5 laps I was hanging on. I do remember at one point, leaving a slight gap on the inside in lane 1 and having another runner try to squeeze into the gap and force me into lane 2, but I fought back into position, and that's about as much tactical racing as there was for me in this particular race!

dna_leri wrote:

Have you considered one more attempt on the track, maybe at the National Masters in 5 weeks time? You would be favourite to win your category and maybe some of the younger guys could drag you to a faster time also. Last year's results here:
http://www.athleticsireland.ie/downl..._Men_Track.pdf
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Cheers Kevin. Hadn't considered that at all. That seems like a really good idea. Will be taking a couple of weeks off between now and then (just easy running) and then will begin working on the longer stuff, but it's early enough into the next phase of training, that I will still have some speed in the legs. I may just do that!