M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Cookiemunster

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I was looking through Limerick 2030 An Economic and Spatial Plan for Limerick which was released yesterday and noticed this map;



I notice it has M20 to Newcastle West, Adare & Tralee but M21 to Cork. Does this suggest the plan is that once the motorway between Limerick and Cork is built (whenever that will be!) it will become the M21 and the existing N21 will be reclassified as N20? Or will the N21 become something else (N24?) with the sections of M7 and M18 around Limerick becoming the M20 and N21 remaining as is? The latter would keep the theme of having multiples of 10 for ring roads of cities (M50 for Dublin, M40 for Cork), in this case I presume the Galway Outer Bypass would become the M30?

Too soon to change the thread title?

I reckon your overthinking a misprint in a document that has nothibg to do with the NRA. The N20 will become the M20 and the N21 will never be a motorway.

nordydan

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I reckon your overthinking a misprint in a document that has nothibg to do with the NRA. The N20 will become the M20 and the N21 will never be a motorway.

Yeah its just a misprint

Chris_5339762

Also the M18/20/7 junction is a work of fantasy on that map!

Markcheese

Also there is no m40 around cork it's the N40 and it's unlikely that it'll ever be a motorway....

antoobrien

Aard wrote: »

By the looks of it the Limerick bypass will be half M7 and half M18. I dont think it'll have its own number a la the M50 or N40.

It may not be the easiest thing to see from a map, but the bypass in this map is already there and it is true that the N18 runs into the M7.

As has already been said, the numbering looks like a misprint or someone from Limerick trying to redefine the importance of the city by recategorising the road network around it (instead of in reference to Dublin).

Aard wrote: »

As for the Galway bypass, it's likely to be a continuation of the M6 right?

That's how it's proposed, N6 to the N59, then R336 from there to Bearna (though that might change to N6 to Bearna). This is similar to the existing N6 which ends at the roundabout behind UCHG.

Pete_Cavan

I thought it was a misprint at first but if it was, then the corrected version would see the existing M20 labeled as the M21, which would not make sense either.

antoobrien

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I thought it was a misprint at first but if it was, then the corrected version would see the existing M20 labeled as the M21, which would not make sense either.

AFAIK M20 will go south and M21/N21 (however they designate it) will split off it (though on the map it looks as if the N20 splits off the N21).

road_high

Stuck in Adare again this weekend. It's absolutley nuts such a bottlekenck has been left so long. Guts of half an hour to get through it Saturday afternoon. Was a wedding ir something on in the town. The littlest thing sparks chaos.

spacetweek

The Galway bypass could not be M30 anyway as that number is already in use.

It's unlikely that anywhere apart from Dublin and Cork will ever have separately-numbered rings as the bypasses for the other cities aren't substantial enough, i.e. they don't encircle enough of the city.

The Galway bypass will be a continuation of the N6 - the M6 starts/ends at the Oranmore / Baile Chláir junction - the N6 continues into town and the bypass will branch off this.

antoobrien

spacetweek wrote: »

It's unlikely that anywhere apart from Dublin and Cork will ever have separately-numbered rings as the bypasses for the other cities aren't substantial enough, i.e. they don't encircle enough of the city.

Just curious but what criteria are you using to decide that?

It looks to me like the GCOB (if built to current route plans) will encircle more (%) than the M50 covers in Dublin. The argument could be made for Limerick as its it looks like a southern bypass and Waterford as it's a Northern bypass with scope for further ring/link roads.

veryangryman

antoobrien wrote: »

Just curious but what criteria are you using to decide that?

It looks to me like the GCOB (if built to current route plans) will encircle more (%) than the M50 covers in Dublin. The argument could be made for Limerick as its it looks like a southern bypass and Waterford as it's a Northern bypass with scope for further ring/link roads.

Eastern bypass of Dublin is planned (albeit nothin happening in ages) to complete the M50 circle.

Badly needed i say having driven the Stillorgan Road

spacetweek

antoobrien wrote: »

Just curious but what criteria are you using to decide that?

The M50 covers 270 degrees of the circle. The plan is that the Eastern Bypass would connect the docks with Sandyford. The only missing section of M50 then is this part.

That's only if the E.B. happens. Which it probably won't.

RikkFlair

Just back to the M20, I remember last year seeing a PDF of the route corridor, but I can't for the life of me find where I saw it. Maybe its been deleted off whatever web server it was on, with the whole project being put on the back burner for a decade.

I was just interested to see how they will realign the current Croom bypass as part of the route...or will the whole route be rejigged in the coming years?

veryangryman

RikkFlair wrote: »

Just back to the M20, I remember last year seeing a PDF of the route corridor, but I can't for the life of me find where I saw it. Maybe its been deleted off whatever web server it was on, with the whole project being put on the back burner for a decade.

I was just interested to see how they will realign the current Croom bypass as part of the route...or will the whole route be rejigged in the coming years?

My thoughts for what its worth..

The DC at the Northern tip of the N21 will likely become part of the route. Why else just put DC with 0 bypasses on the N21 at that point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N20_road_(Ireland)#M20_motorway

Seems to indicate an exit for Adare/Croom in the proposed Motorway

RikkFlair

veryangryman wrote: »

My thoughts for what its worth..

The DC at the Northern tip of the N21 will likely become part of the route. Why else just put DC with 0 bypasses on the N21 at that point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N20_road_(Ireland)#M20_motorway

Seems to indicate an exit for Adare/Croom in the proposed Motorway

Yeah from what I can remember the exit would be for Adare (what was to be the controversial adare bypass - thats another story!) and the DC would then veer south and join up with the current Croom bypass here http://goo.gl/maps/CVKe4

I was just curious to see how they would follow the alignment of the current bypass of Croom, or is it gonna veer away and be a bypass of a bypass!

Cookiemunster

RikkFlair wrote: »

I was just curious to see how they would follow the alignment of the current bypass of Croom, or is it gonna veer away and be a bypass of a bypass!

They were originally planning on upgrading the Croom bypass the same way they did the Nenagh bypass and then new build from the south of that. Not sure if that was changed on the newer plans which had the Adare bypass attached though.

corktina

Cookiemunster wrote: »

They were originally planning on upgrading the Croom bypass the same way they did the Nenagh bypass and then new build from the south of that. Not sure if that was changed on the newer plans which had the Adare bypass attached though.

not as easy as that. If it's going to be a motorway, there has to be an alternative route for non-motorway traffic....the Croom bypass actually replaced the existing road over a considerable length. It should be OK north of Croom as the old road is there most of the way to the point the motorway would come in at but south of Croom the "old " road would need to be reinstated over most of the length of the bypass, if that is to be re-used as mway.

Cookiemunster

corktina wrote: »

not as easy as that. If it's going to be a motorway, there has to be an alternative route for non-motorway traffic....the Croom bypass actually replaced the existing road over a considerable length. It should be OK north of Croom as the old road is there most of the way to the point the motorway would come in at but south of Croom the "old " road would need to be reinstated over most of the length of the bypass, if that is to be re-used as mway.

It was however the plan. See bottom map on pg 2 here

corktina

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It was however the plan. See bottom map on pg 2 here

i'm no expert. but it does seem that there is no provision made for non-motorway traffic south of Croom, which presumably would mean this section would have to remain N20

Cookiemunster

corktina wrote: »

i'm no expert. but it does seem that there is no provision made for non-motorway traffic south of Croom, which presumably would mean this section would have to remain N20

If you look closely at the map there's a road running to the west of the motorway from the Ballingarn Bridge which looks to go under the motorway where is says "Existing N20 at Annid West" and join with the old N20.

Chris_5339762

Yeah there are parallel roads being built so that the mainline can be motorway with an alternative route for other traffic.

veryangryman

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Yeah there are parallel roads being built so that the mainline can be motorway with an alternative route for other traffic.

The building of link roads has been done on many exits along the M6 (e.g Junction 13 for Ballydangan/Drum/Cornafulla traffic).

RikkFlair

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It was however the plan. See bottom map on pg 2 here

Thats the PDF I was looking for, cheers!

Makes sense now, the route layout. Interesting to see the old stretch of road into Croom from the Cork side (which is used as a walk/cycle way for now) will be reused as "Islandmore Access route".

I'm guessing the Ballingarry road bridge and perhaps a few other overbridges towards Patrickswell will have to be widened for the motorway, similar to what happened with the Nenagh bypass.

corktina

ah now I can see the "N20" roads, they swap sides, which is what had me fooled.

AugustusMinimus

A question or two.

1. The present small section of the M20 that's outside of Limerick. Will the mainline run all the way to Cork or will the next section of the M20 be built with the mainline turning into the N21 and the junction take you off to the M20 ?

2. Any chance of the present N20 outside of Cork between the city and Blarney being redesignated as the M20 with old roads being used as alternative routes again ?

Chris_5339762

1) Mainline will take you to Dublin and you'll have to turn off (but not stop at a roundabout) to go along the N21.

2) Partly. The Blarney junction will be rebuilt so my understanding is the M20 will come quite close to Cork. I'd reckon it'll come as close as the stack junction that will be built if the NRR ever gets built.

Max Powers

Why dont they upgrade the n24 from Limerick to say just before Cahir and have that section join up with the m8, would be a lot shorter, cheaper and would also have the benefit of upgrading a significant (the worst) section of the n24?

veryangryman

Max Powers wrote: »

Why dont they upgrade the n24 from Limerick to say just before Cahir and have that section join up with the m8, would be a lot shorter, cheaper and would also have the benefit of upgrading a significant (the worst) section of the n24?

Because people from Charleville, Mallow and Buttevant with delusions of grandeur would be crying about their own lack of bypasses.

Me i'm all for your idea by the way. Cheaper and helps to actually link cities in some way

AugustusMinimus

Because the Cork to Limerick motorway isn't there just to serve those travelling from Cork to Limerick and vica versa.