M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

AugustusMinimus

spacetweek wrote: »

He presumably means a low standard 2+2. With most of the N20 replaced by a new single carriageway.

Madness. Putting undue load onto the M8 and Dunkettle.

Have we learned anything from the Naas dual carriageway?

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Reputable Rog wrote: »

All we need now is an M72 and M21 to Tralee and M23/M22 Killarney and we’re sorted.

Vote No1 and No2 Healy-Rae

lawrencesummers

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Why do i bother

https://twitter.com/sendboyle/status/1230188657249837058

It’s no wonder that Dan was dropped like a hot snot in 2007.

What part of reducing journey times and taking traffic out of towns do the greens not understand as being excellent for the environment?

I’ve driven limerick to Cork at night in 45/50 minutes. With a motorway this is a realistic-ish time meaning a reduction of drive time for every car of 30plus minutes. Isn’t that a massive saving for the environment?

Doesn’t Such a journey time make electric cars viable for people who commute that journey?

Taking cars out of towns makes for a far cleaner area around populated areas. No stopping at lights, pedestrian crossings etc etc.

Reputable Rog

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It’s no wonder that Dan was dropped like a hot snot in 2007.

What part of reducing journey times and taking traffic out of towns do the greens not understand as being excellent for the environment?

I’ve driven limerick to Cork at night in 45/50 minutes. With a motorway this is a realistic-ish time meaning a reduction of drive time for every car of 30plus minutes. Isn’t that a massive saving for the environment?

Doesn’t Such a journey time make electric cars viable for people who commute that journey?

Taking cars out of towns makes for a far cleaner area around populated areas. No stopping at lights, pedestrian crossings etc etc.

The fastest I’ve ever done it is an hour from the Crescent to Blackpool.
Even in the middle of the night it’s taken at least 1hr 20.
Often takes 40 minutes to get from Maslow to Charleville off peak.

Shedite27

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I’ve driven limerick to Cork at night in 45/50 minutes.

You're the reason I'm infavour of more speed vans

Isambard

45 to 50 minutes is highly unlikely -even at night. Takes me a minimum of 45 from Kanturk to Cork Northside , you wouldn't make cork to Charleville in 45 minutes unless rocket powered never mind Limerick.

lawrencesummers

It was an emergency, and very late.

Bass Reeves

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I’ve driven limerick to Cork at night in 45/50 minutes.

If 45 minutes it's an average speed of 73mph, if 50 about 66. If somewhere in between you are at 70mph average speed. Even allowing that maybe not city center to city center you have to counter this with speed limits in towns being partially observed and allowing for Buttervant and the lane and a half you must have been exceeding 100mph (106kph) a lot of the time

Stupidity even if an emergency unless under gardai escort

NedNew2

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If 45 minutes it's an average speed of 73mph, if 50 about 66. If somewhere in between you are at 70mph average speed. Even allowing that maybe not city center to city center you have to counter this with speed limits in towns being partially observed and allowing for Buttervant and the lane and a half you must have been exceeding 100mph (106kph) a lot of the time

Stupidity even if an emergency unless under gardai escort

Eh, what? We use km/h in Ireland. What is this mph you speak of?

100km roughly from Limerick to Cork in 45 minutes would be 133 km/h average.

AugustusMinimus

NedNew2 wrote: »

Eh, what? We use km/h in Ireland. What is this mph you speak of?

100km roughly from Limerick to Cork in 45 minutes would be 133 km/h average.

Calm down. MPH is still a valid measure.

Isambard

NedNew2 wrote: »

Eh, what? We use km/h in Ireland. What is this mph you speak of?

100km roughly from Limerick to Cork in 45 minutes would be 133 km/h average.

if you take the distance from , let's say, Commons Inn to Dooradoyle and the 50 minutes timing, it actually is closer to 110 km/h average. Still OTT but not so extreme

lawrencesummers

Isambard wrote: »

if you take the distance from , let's say, Commons Inn to Dooradoyle and the 50 minutes timing, it actually is closer to 110 km/h average. Still OTT but not so extreme

Imagine what it will take on a motorway with a 160kmph average.

niloc1951

Isambard wrote: »

if you take the distance from , let's say, Commons Inn to Dooradoyle and the 50 minutes timing, it actually is closer to 110 km/h average. Still OTT but not so extreme

Not exreame !!!!
A 110km/h average when taking into account the urban speed limits of Mallow and in particular the main streets of Buttevant and Charlevile plus slow sections like Ballybeg, Glenmore and both sides of O'Rourks Cross would indicate a sustained speed of at least 130km/h on the 'good' sections.
At night a bank of long-range driving lamps would be necessary to see whats in front within a safe stopping distance on such a route.
The word loonacy come to mind.

Isambard

niloc1951 wrote: »

Not exreame !!!!
A 110km/h average when taking into account the urban speed limits of Mallow and in particular the main streets of Buttevant and Charlevile plus slow sections like Ballybeg, Glenmore and both sides of O'Rourks Cross would indicate a sustained speed of at least 130km/h on the 'good' sections.
At night a bank of long-range driving lamps would be necessary to see whats in front within a safe stopping distance on such a route.
The word loonacy come to mind.

not so extreme as the estimate of 133km/h average suggested. Selective quoting is quite annoying

hans aus dtschl

marno21 wrote: »

It's going to be appraised as part of the second phase of this project.

It's the following options:
M20 shadowing the existing N20
Rail line via Charleville-Patrickswell
New direct rail service via Limerick Junction

Seems a shame it's either-or.

Edit: what I mean is that I expect M20 road to be the end decision, but it'd be a shame if that then ruled out a Limerick Jn direct service!

Bass Reeves

Isambard wrote: »

if you take the distance from , let's say, Commons Inn to Dooradoyle and the 50 minutes timing, it actually is closer to 110 km/h average. Still OTT but not so extreme

But that is not what he said , it was an emergency situation and Limerick to Cork. It was unlikely to be from the Cresent to the Commons Inn may e add another 4-5km at least that is a minimum if 97km when 4-5 km is added. That is slightly over 2 km/ hour if we allow it took 48 minutes. He had to get onto the motorway at limerick, exit it after Patrickswell to access Cork road, then he had to travel through the following reduced liners, at Rourke cross, Charlesville, Buttervant,,Mallow New Inn and from the end of the dualcarrigeay to the Commons Inn. He had the poorer quality stretches from Croom to Charlesville, Buttervant, Balkybeg bends onto Mlow and the lanes d a half stretch.

His average speed was at Motorway speed for the whole journey. That indicated that anytime he hit 160 km/ hour in real time speeds. Just to add another context most cars speedometer's are set about 5% above real speed. His car was definitely hitting 160km/hour and maybe more.

Driving that on a two lane carriageway is stupidity. No pint of glossing over it trying to make it a minimum distance fro. Outside Limerick to outside cork can alter that stupidity.

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we leave out the boasting about how fast above the speed limit one can go.

This thread is about the proposed M20, not the antics of boy racers.

Regards

lawrencesummers

The original point I made was about the reduction in journey times, the removal of traffic from townA meaning less pollution and how the Green Party can’t see this as a major environmental factor.

Mr Tickle

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The original point I made was about the reduction in journey times, the removal of traffic from townA meaning less pollution and how the Green Party can’t see this as a major environmental factor.

I think you're over stating the greens position there but that's an aside.

If you were looking for the most environmentally efficient road a regular dual carriage way is actually better than a Motorway. Most cars hit max efficiency between 50 and 100kph. Electrics are somewhere around 60kph. I can't remember exactly where those numbers come from but I went looking into this before and was fairly happy with my sources.

I do agree that a lot of the towns need to be bypassed. Maybe a motorway will be chosen as the more popular road type but that would have to be a time saving decision, not an environmental one.

lawrencesummers

Mr Tickle wrote: »

I think you're over stating the greens position there but that's an aside.

If you were looking for the most environmentally efficient road a regular dual carriage way is actually better than a Motorway. Most cars hit max efficiency between 50 and 100kph. Electrics are somewhere around 60kph. I can't remember exactly where those numbers come from but I went looking into this before and was fairly happy with my sources.

I do agree that a lot of the towns need to be bypassed. Maybe a motorway will be chosen as the more popular road type but that would have to be a time saving decision, not an environmental one.

Doesn’t that come down to funding? Motorways get European money Or at least more European money than DC’s

Isambard

as has been pointed out before, a regular dual carriageway and a motorway are the same thing with different colour signs.

Mr Tickle

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Doesn’t that come down to funding? Motorways get European money Or at least more European money than DC’s

That's interesting. I wasn't aware.

Isambard wrote: »

as has been pointed out before, a regular dual carriageway and a motorway are the same thing with different colour signs.

Fair enough but the point was about speeds so could a Motorway (blue signs and all) have a speed limit of 100kph? If you were going for efficiency.

L1011

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Doesn’t that come down to funding? Motorways get European money Or at least more European money than DC’s

Except for TEN-T, neither get any anymore.

Shedite27

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Imagine what it will take on a motorway with a 160kmph average.

lawrencesummers will have it done in about 15 minutes

(in an emergency )

steeler j

When will we roughly see the preferred route?

Isambard

Mr Tickle wrote: »

That's interesting. I wasn't aware.


Fair enough but the point was about speeds so could a Motorway (blue signs and all) have a speed limit of 100kph? If you were going for efficiency.

indeed and an N road could have 120 km/h limit. and in fact some do. 100 as a crusing speed is a lot more efficent than 120. Loads of people do it (not me though)

Sam Russell

Mr Tickle wrote: »

That's interesting.
Fair enough but the point was about speeds so could a Motorway (blue signs and all) have a speed limit of 100kph? If you were going for efficiency.

Ever been on the M50? 100 km.h. Or the N1 north of Dundalk - 120 km/h.

Mr Tickle

Sam Russell wrote: »

Ever been on the M50? 100 km.h. Or the N1 north of Dundalk - 120 km/h.

I actually only realised the speed limit on the M50 a couple of weeks ago actually (and promptly forgot).

and No to the second part.

Mc Love

Cork Limerick Alliance Group (CLAG) out in force again https://www.live95fm.ie/news/live95-news/claims-that-proposed-route-for-m20-makes-no-economic-sense/

Kevtherev1

steeler j wrote: »

When will we roughly see the preferred route?

One of the M20 engineers was on newstalk breakfast show this morning. Feb 20th 2020. He stated direct m20 route along n 20 corridor solved all the issues direct route, bypassing towns, safety issues and matching traffic figures.



Stated current n20 journey time between limerick, cork is 100 minutes. Motorway will cut journey time to 60 minutes. Approx 100 km route. He stated clearly limerick to cork should not be via the n24. That should be a separate road upgrade.



Emerging preferred route to be announced end of 2020. With preferred route announce in early 2021, he did not specifically say when in 2021 preferred route. Stated he thinks planning permission will be around 2023. With delivery / opening in 2027.