M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Cookiemunster

roddney wrote: »

In fairness it seems they are advocating building of m24 rather than the m20. This would link Waterford, Cork, Limerick and places in between, with the argument that this would be a more balanced Munster regional motorway.

Read through this thread (even a few pages back) and you'll see why an M24 won't solve the issues on the N20. The M20 is the only game in town.

SeanW

Aontachtoir wrote: »

If/when SF get in, cancelling the M20 will almost pay for returning the pension age to 65 for the next two years. A few forums on Irish unity mostly aimed at antagonising the DUP (a party in another country) can eat up the rest.

I don't understand why people on this board are so focused on the Greens while completely ignoring the damage SF (who are polling far, far higher) would do to infrastructure investment. Populists don't invest. If SF poll as highly as they have done today, and get into government, the M20 and most other road projects are probably toast.

The "Greens" have already helped cancel half of the Dublin Metro because it might upset some of their voter base in Ranelagh - this at a time when the Green Line is already maxed out with thousands of new apartments being built along the line. And now they oppose the M20 - easily one of the most important road projects in the country right now.

With that they've already proven they're unfit to govern. SF might be scary for other reasons, you could argue that they're unfit too. But we should be scared of the Greens the most based on what they've already said and done.

prunudo

roddney wrote: »

In fairness it seems they are advocating building of m24 rather than the m20. This would link Waterford, Cork, Limerick and places in between, with the argument that this would be a more balanced Munster regional motorway.

They must be the only green party in the world that advocate a longer and more time consuming journey by car as being more beneficial.
Its a shame there isn't a realistic green alternative.

marno21

prunudo wrote: »

They must be the only green party in the world that advocate a longer and more time consuming journey by car as being mire beneficial.
Its a shame there isn't a realistic green alternative.

That's projected to carry a quarter the traffic of the lowest trafficked section of the N20 and a sixth the traffic of the busiest section of the N20.

riddlinrussell

prunudo wrote: »

They must be the only green party in the world that advocate a longer and more time consuming journey by car as being more beneficial.
Its a shame there isn't a realistic green alternative.

Join the Greens and change them from within?

JamesBond2010

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Join the Greens and change them from within?

U will turn to the dark side then ;) :cool: :cool: NOOOOOooo:D:D:D

mydiscworld

So when are we expecting the final route design?

Bass Reeves

mydiscworld wrote: »

So when are we expecting the final route design?

Before Christmas..................but God only knows which Christmas

Markcheese

It's probably the route that should have been done originally , a cork, Waterford and limerick and Waterford motorway all meeting in tipp .. then heading to meet up with Galway motorway on the way to Dublin , rather than individual Dublin motorways ... But that ship has long sailed ,

It probably still makes some sense ... To link the 3 cities by motorway ,
But they'll still have to upgrade the n20... And bypass the towns ...

serfboard

Markcheese wrote: »

But they'll still have to upgrade the n20... And bypass the towns ...

Which just shows the daftness of the Green's proposal if you dig into it - they're going to build the M24, and bypass the towns.

Would that be a half-arsed bypass, or a proper bypass?

And what are they going to do about the deadly-dangerous section around Knockbarry/Ballybeg (south of Buttevant)? Leave that as it is? Or bypass that too? If they are going to bypass it, then we'll have a Buttevant bypass followed by a Knockbarry bypass?

And what about the dangerous section around Bánóg?

The Green's proposal is a joke, and hasn't a hope of happening. The M24 may indeed get built, but only after the M20.

As I've said before, Blarney to Patrickswell is 80 KM, that's 50 minutes on the M20 by the form of Public Transport known as a bus, which the Greens, with their pure oul snobbery, don't want to hear anything about.

marno21

serfboard wrote: »

Which just shows the daftness of the Green's proposal if you dig into it - they're going to build the M24, and bypass the towns.

Would that be a half-arsed bypass, or a proper bypass?

And what are they going to do about the deadly-dangerous section around Knockbarry/Ballybeg (south of Buttevant)? Leave that as it is? Or bypass that too? If they are going to bypass it, then we'll have a Buttevant bypass followed by a Knockbarry bypass?

And what about the dangerous section around Bánóg?

The Green's proposal is a joke, and hasn't a hope of happening. The M24 may indeed get built, but only after the M20.

As I've said before, Blarney to Patrickswell is 80 KM, that's 50 minutes on the M20 by the form of Public Transport known as a bus, which the Greens, with their pure oul snobbery, don't want to hear anything about.

It's ludicrous.

Instead of one proper solution they propose 2 half baked solutions, which will cost more and cause more hassle than the proper solution. With less benefits.

serfboard

marno21 wrote: »

Instead of one proper solution they propose 2 half baked solutions, which will cost more and cause more hassle than the proper solution. With less benefits.

There's a reason that they were kept away form the Transport portfolio in the last coalition that they were in - and I'd fully expect the same to happen again if the numbers dictate it.

pajoguy

It will be broadly similar to the route chosen in 2010.

alias no.9

Cookiemunster wrote: »

For the umpteenth time, it doesn't save money. It doesn't help the majority of people using the road, commuters into Cork and Limerick. It doesn't bypass the overchoked towns on the route. It doesn't replace the highly dangerous 19th century alignment along most of the route. It doesn't address the fact that Mallow to Blarney needs a dual carriage/motorway now. Any route other than following the N20 still leaves all these things needing to be done.

And who in their right mind would take the 3 hour journey via Portlaoise when even the awful current road takes half that time?

That indeed is my point, it will facilitate approximately the same percentage of the current N20 traffic as a new route via Cahir (we could round it off at 0%) but would cost even less. Did it really need a :rolleyes:

Cookiemunster

alias no.9 wrote: »

That indeed is my point, it will facilitate approximately the same percentage of the current N20 traffic as a new route via Cahir (we could round it off at 0%) but would cost even less. Did it really need a :rolleyes:

There aren't any emojis anywhere in my post?????

alias no.9

Cookiemunster wrote: »

There aren't any emojis anywhere in my post?????

We're clearly on very different wavelengths. You responded to a post I made which was never meant to be taken seriously. I thought that would have been very obvious but maybe I should have included a :rolleyes: to remove any doubt.

Limerick - Cahir - Cork is bat**** crazy, if nonsense cost savings are an argument for Limerick - Cahir - Cork, then Limerick - Portlaoise - Cork would trump it on the basis that it would save even more. Let me be clear, both are bat**** because they fail at their primary objective.

trellheim

Is this to be tolled when built ? Cant imagine it not being with probably a few toll points at Mallow , Croom and at either end

BelfastVanMan

trellheim wrote: »

Is this to be tolled when built ? Cant imagine it not being with probably a few toll points at Mallow , Croom and at either end

4 tolls in 65 miles?

I'll head via Ballylanders, thanks..

Shedite27

trellheim wrote: »

Is this to be tolled when built ? Cant imagine it not being with probably a few toll points at Mallow , Croom and at either end

There'll be one, at most.

hans aus dtschl

Has there been any draft design of the tolling?

I'd expect one between Blarney P&R and Cork, southbound. Not sure if/where it'd be necessary Northbound.

Bass Reeves

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Has there been any draft design of the tolling?

I'd expect one between Blarney P&R and Cork, southbound. Not sure if/where it'd be necessary Northbound.

If it is tolled it will be tolled between Mallow and Cork city maybe just before Blarney. There could be a case to toll it twice because of commuter traffic into both cities, in that case it would be rolled again around Croom

cjpm

I’m pretty sure it can’t be tolled for the sections that are an online upgrade. As where it’s on line the road is already in public use and has been paid for. That rules out a toll just before Blarney.

Cookiemunster

cjpm wrote: »

I’m pretty sure it can’t be tolled for the sections that are an online upgrade. As where it’s on line the road is already in public use and has been paid for. That rules out a toll just before Blarney.

If it's a motorway then there has to be an alternative route for non motorway traffic. I'm pretty sure the alternative route covers tolls too (open to correction though).

niloc1951

Cookiemunster wrote: »

If it's a motorway then there has to be an alternative route for non motorway traffic. I'm pretty sure the alternative route covers tolls too (open to correction though).

There are no tolls on the M8/M7 alternative route (R639, N77)

Cookiemunster

niloc1951 wrote: »

There are no tolls on the M8/M7 alternative route (R639, N77)

You've taken me up completely wrong there. I didn't say there had to be tolls on the alternative route. I was saying that once there's an alternative route, there can be tolls on a motorway.

Isambard

the non-motorway route (ie the old N20) from Cork to Rathduff is not fit for modern traffic and is in no way a proper alternative.

hans aus dtschl

Isambard wrote: »

the non-motorway route (ie the old N20) from Cork to Rathduff is not fit for modern traffic and is in no way a proper alternative.

I don't think it really matters, as the plan is to do an M40 North and they'll probably toll as you access that.

Reputable Rog

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I don't think it really matters, as the plan is to do an M40 North and they'll probably toll as you access that.

There are no plans to do an M40 north.

hans aus dtschl

Reputable Rog wrote: »

There are no plans to do an M40 north.

It's in CMATS for delivery "before 2040" so there are plans.
But I think you mean as part of the current scheme, which I agree with.

What I'm saying is that the idea is to have both P&R at Blarney and M40 North completed and then toll between the two, rather than on the existing N20 Blarney to Blackpool section. Presumably severely restrict traffic in Blackpool by all sorts of other means also.

steeler j

A pro m20 via cahir politician had gone in in Tipperary,I remember having an argument with him about during the local elections