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M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

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    #5882
    sondagefaux
    Registered Users Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭sondagefaux


    marno21 wrote: »
    I have no problem with the Government not proceeding the scheme in 2011. While the country had such a large budget deficit, spending a 9 figure sum on land in rural Cork and Limerick was not a wise choice to make.

    What I do have a problem with is what happened between early 2015 and now. When there was no excuse. When the N5 through Roscommon had no problem being allocated all necessary resources to get it from concept to construction yet the M20 has had nothing done. All in a background of growth and exactly the type of tax windfalls that are best spend on non recurring expenditure.

    And with the state able to borrow money practically for free or even getting paid to borrow money!

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-ireland-bonds-test/ireland-sells-4-billion-euros-of-bonds-at-negative-yield-idUKKCN1C91M3
    Irish 10-year bond interest rates are now trading just in positive territory at 0.066 per cent and shorter-term Irish government debt is now trading at a negative interest rate, as rates fall to record or near-record lows across Europe. The low rates, if sustained, will help the National Treasury Management Agency (NTMA) to refinance maturing borrowing at rock-bottom interest rates. It may also mean that banks trim existing fixed-term interest rates offers to mortgage borrowers, as they get access to cheaper finance.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/irish-long-term-interest-rates-hit-record-low-1.3945747


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    #5883
    alias no.9
    Registered Users Posts: 6,264 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    I just heard Ryan on Ivan Yates. He didn't make a mistake the last time when he spoke about joining Cork to Limerick via the M7, because he just repeated it. I can only assume he wants people to travel between the two cities via Portlaoise. He's bloody delusional.

    Its just as useful an option as a route through Cahir, and much lower cost.


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    #5884
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    alias no.9 wrote: »
    Its just as useful an option as a route through Cahir, and much lower cost.

    For the umpteenth time, it doesn't save money. It doesn't help the majority of people using the road, commuters into Cork and Limerick. It doesn't bypass the overchoked towns on the route. It doesn't replace the highly dangerous 19th century alignment along most of the route. It doesn't address the fact that Mallow to Blarney needs a dual carriage/motorway now. Any route other than following the N20 still leaves all these things needing to be done.

    And who in their right mind would take the 3 hour journey via Portlaoise when even the awful current road takes half that time?


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    #5885
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    alias no.9 wrote: »
    Its just as useful an option as a route through Cahir, and much lower cost.

    Ah jesus christ not this again


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    #5886
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    i kind of think, or hope, that post 5883 was an attempt at irony or just humour. I don't think he was serious.


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    #5887
    neddynasty
    Registered Users Posts: 358 ✭✭neddynasty


    Hibernicis wrote: »

    Depressing stuff. And now this shows up ............

    Government does not know full cost of M20 road from Cork to Limerick

    The most interesting part was the last sentence:

    "Further documents released under Freedom of Information legislation show how a number of voters threatened to desert Fine Gael if the road was not built."

    We all need to follow that lead. Anyone who's not in favour of the M20 following the current N20 route doesn't get a vote. Hopefully the Dail will take notice.


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    #5888
    veryangryman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,532 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    The fact that Eamonn Ryan incorrectly says "connecting to the M7" instead of the M8 just shows how little he cares about linking the cities.

    Assuming he means the M8, it's still vague. Is he talking via Cahir or Michelstown. The latter has a shred of use but i understand its on wilder terrain and gives 2 fingers to Mallow, Buttevant and Charleville


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    #5889
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,066 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    It's just a way of blocking the M20.
    Their overarching policy is "no more roads" and you can't square that with "route M20 traffic via the M8".
    They're just using the nearest possible mechanism to get the M20 canned again. Even if it is a roads project that they're proposing.


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    #5890
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    joining the M8 might be possible at Fermoy, although the country looks difficult, and following the N72 Blackwater Valley to join the N20 north of Mallow, and them M20 to Patrickswell. Could take enough traffic off the Mallow to Cork section to make it workable. I'm doubtful of the advantages though


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    #5891
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,066 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Isambard wrote: »
    joining the M8 might be possible at Fermoy, although the country looks difficult, and following the N72 Blackwater Valley to join the N20 north of Mallow, and them M20 to Patrickswell. Could take enough traffic off the Mallow to Cork section to make it workable. I'm doubtful of the advantages though

    And you're still back to questions of Dunkettle traffic volume and the existing local traffic on the N20 unfortunately.


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    #5892
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    the cost thing is a red herring, how much of that, is going to end up back in state coffers anyway?


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    #5893
    Hibernicis
    Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    Isambard wrote: »
    joining the M8 might be possible at Fermoy, although the country looks difficult, and following the N72 Blackwater Valley to join the N20 north of Mallow, and them M20 to Patrickswell. Could take enough traffic off the Mallow to Cork section to make it workable. I'm doubtful of the advantages though

    The problem with this approach is that it is tinkering at the edges, rerouting bits and pieces, just to satisfy some "perfect solution" that exists only in Ryan's head. Look at a journey from say Bandon to Limerick going via Bandon to Dunkettle to Fermoy to Mallow to Limerick it makes no sense. Contrast this with TII's current overall "masterplan" as we understand, it will be Bandon to Ballincollig to Blarney (M40 West/North) to Mallow to Limerick and it makes far more sense. The same goes for Macroom to Limerick. And surprisingly, it also works better for Middleton, Youghal etc to Limerick.

    You simply cannot rip a critical link (M20) out of the current masterplan without going back to the drawing board fo a wholesale redesign. And in any event, the M20 isn't just a point to point motorway, it serves a whole very busy, reasonably densely populated and commercially important corridor.

    Frankly, I think that Ryan should be told to get into a 20 year old Fiesta at 3:45 pm some Friday and made to drive from Cork city centre to Limerick city centre and back. Behind a convoy of three low loaders carrying mobile homes.


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    #5894
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    i don't the western N40 link will happen in my lifetime, the eastern N40 link might, be handy for my bathchair.


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    #5895
    Reputable Rog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭Reputable Rog


    Isambard wrote: »
    joining the M8 might be possible at Fermoy, although the country looks difficult, and following the N72 Blackwater Valley to join the N20 north of Mallow, and them M20 to Patrickswell. Could take enough traffic off the Mallow to Cork section to make it workable. I'm doubtful of the advantages though

    It’s 28 km to Fermoy to Mallow and another 35 from Fermoy to Cork.
    I can’t imagine traffic taking a 28km detour for the sake of staying on Motorway.


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    #5896
    Kevtherev1
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭Kevtherev1


    The solution here is to put up road blocks against the green party in all constituency's. Call to action-- in all constituency's do not give any votes to the green candidate in your area.



    Stop that Eamon clown blocking the m20 and other critical road upgrades. or at the very least reduce their seat count as much as possible. Can you imagine the embarrassment of Eamon Ryan as taniste of this country. **** no. And i am in no way a member of any party myself.


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    #5897
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Kevtherev1 wrote: »
    The solution here is to put up road blocks against the green party in all constituency's. Call to action-- in all constituency's do not give any votes to the green candidate in your area.



    Stop that Eamon clown blocking the m20 and other critical road upgrades. or at the very least reduce their seat count as much as possible. Can you imagine the embarrassment of Eamon Ryan as taniste of this country. **** no. And i am in no way a member of any party myself.

    Look, they will build the Metro,and probably DU. I think the logic of the M20 is likely to get the go ahead as not all members agree with him.


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    #5898
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Look, they will build the Metro,and probably DU. I think the logic of the M20 is likely to get the go ahead as not all members agree with him.

    The constituencies that the M20 will run through will likely return a sum total of zero Green Party TDs. They will however return potentially 9 Fianna Fáil TDs. I have my doubts that the Greens will be having much influence on this issue.


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    #5899
    windy shepard henderson
    Registered Users Posts: 5,727 ✭✭✭windy shepard henderson


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Look, they will build the Metro,and probably DU. I think the logic of the M20 is likely to get the go ahead as not all members agree with him.

    while most dont agree with him he could be asked to join a coalition government where he will be able to give a list of demands before he joins , the shelving of the M20 would be seen as one of his main priorities

    he has such ridicules views on farming and transport m but as another poster said sooner or later people will have to put the foot down against the greens like they did in other EU countries or our infrastructure will fall apart


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    #5900
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    marno21 wrote: »
    The constituencies that the M20 will run through will likely return a sum total of zero Green Party TDs. They will however return potentially 9 Fianna Fáil TDs. I have my doubts that the Greens will be having much influence on this issue.

    Where the influence could be / would be in determining what the capital budget is spent on ,if there's say 10 billion and its spent on Dart underground and metro North ,then there's nothing left over for new motorways ...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #5901
    Aontachtoir
    Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    Markcheese wrote: »
    Where the influence could be / would be in determining what the capital budget is spent on ,if there's say 10 billion and its spent on Dart underground and metro North ,then there's nothing left over for new motorways ...

    If/when SF get in, cancelling the M20 will almost pay for returning the pension age to 65 for the next two years. A few forums on Irish unity mostly aimed at antagonising the DUP (a party in another country) can eat up the rest.

    I don't understand why people on this board are so focused on the Greens while completely ignoring the damage SF (who are polling far, far higher) would do to infrastructure investment. Populists don't invest. If SF poll as highly as they have done today, and get into government, the M20 and most other road projects are probably toast.


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    #5902
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Markcheese wrote: »
    Where the influence could be / would be in determining what the capital budget is spent on ,if there's say 10 billion and its spent on Dart underground and metro North ,then there's nothing left over for new motorways ...
    The Greens will be a junior coalition member though, and if it's presumably FF as the senior partner, roads investment is guaranteed or there will be a significant rural backlash were all the money to be spent in Dublin.

    The Greens have said that they are pro connecting Cork and Limerick but they would prefer to connect Ireland's 5th city with Limerick and connect Cork as a byproduct of this. When the economic sums are done and this is proven to be a non runner, they might cop on and get behind the M20 for regional connectivity, or improved public transport or whatever.

    The constituencies that the M20 runs through will elect quite a few FF TDs and these TDs will not be rowing in behind any east Limerick/N24 option.


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    #5903
    Limerick74
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭Limerick74


    More from the Green Party on the M20 https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Green-Party-defends-stance-on-Cork-to-Limerick-motorway-2b0f4e04-61a8-41a0-bca3-b0df8e684e40-ds


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    #5904
    Kevtherev1
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭Kevtherev1


    Limerick74 wrote: »
    More from the Green Party on the M20 https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Green-Party-defends-stance-on-Cork-to-Limerick-motorway-2b0f4e04-61a8-41a0-bca3-b0df8e684e40-ds


    Notice in that launch it mostly the local Councillors talking rather then Eamon. This launch is the greens attempt at gaslighting the rural electorate into voting for them.


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    #5905
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Limerick74 wrote: »
    More from the Green Party on the M20 https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Green-Party-defends-stance-on-Cork-to-Limerick-motorway-2b0f4e04-61a8-41a0-bca3-b0df8e684e40-ds


    Jaysus. So they all accept that all the towns need to be bypassed and the the current route needs to be upgraded but they still against the M20? I thinking even more that this is a Ryan solo run and none of them have the balls to stand up to him.


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    #5906
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,044 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    Jaysus. So they all accept that all the towns need to be bypassed and the the current route needs to be upgraded but they still against the M20? I thinking even more that this is a Ryan solo run and none of them have the balls to stand up to him.

    I get the impression that Ryan thinks he is the only man in the country (or the world) that can save the planet from climate change. He seems he's putting hinself under a lot of pressure to get into government.


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    #5907
    Reputable Rog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭Reputable Rog


    I think patience has worn fairly thin, FF/FG will be crucified next time out in the 4 affected constituencies if the road isn’t delivered.


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    #5908
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    Reputable Rog wrote: »
    I think patience has worn fairly thin, FF/FG will be crucified next time out in the 4 affected constituencies if the road isn’t delivered.

    Once the Greens don't get in we stand a chance. they are trying to justify it in the echo today as per earlier article because Moran is from Mayo and Bogue is from Limerick. If anything those 2 should know how badly it is needed.


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    #5909
    pajoguy
    Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭pajoguy


    Re open the limerick to cork railway line...... Yeah because we have the massice population densities required for such a project.... Do these people just think soundbites like this wash with people..... we need to keep these green fingers off this project.


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    #5910
    roddney
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭roddney


    prunudo wrote: »
    I get the impression that Ryan thinks he is the only man in the country (or the world) that can save the planet from climate change. He seems he's putting hinself under a lot of pressure to get into government.

    In fairness it seems they are advocating building of m24 rather than the m20. This would link Waterford, Cork, Limerick and places in between, with the argument that this would be a more balanced Munster regional motorway.


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    #5911
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    roddney wrote: »
    In fairness it seems they are advocating building of m24 rather than the m20. This would link Waterford, Cork, Limerick and places in between, with the argument that this would be a more balanced Munster regional motorway.
    But from a political rather than Roads point of view, how do you win votes in an infrastructurally starved constituency like Cork North Central by proclaiming you're going to scrap the already limited plans for roads in the area in favour of building a just as expensive motorway through the Ballyhoura Mountains in Limerick?


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