M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Mc Love

They probably do it out of public safety more than anything. Friend of mine drove through it after the fair last night and said it was a garbage truck exploded and the council just gave up. Couldnt even imagine what it is like for people that live there and dont like the event taking place

boardsuser1

I ain't holding my breath here.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/500m-extra-per-year-boosts-cork-limerick-motorway-hopes-454682.html

marno21

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

I ain't holding my breath here.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/500m-extra-per-year-boosts-cork-limerick-motorway-hopes-454682.html

There is far too much momentum behind the M20 now, it'll likely be progressed with the Capital Plan review. It's the most discussed and pushed road scheme at the minute, and Varadkar isn't going to gain anything by advancing the N5 Ballaghaderreen-Strokestown or similar instead of it.

Hopefully full planning to resume in 2018 and ready to go for 2022.

betistuc

marno21 wrote: »

There is far too much momentum behind the M20 now, it'll likely be progressed with the Capital Plan review. It's the most discussed and pushed road scheme at the minute, and Varadkar isn't going to gain anything by advancing the N5 Ballaghaderreen-Strokestown or similar instead of it.

Hopefully full planning to resume in 2018 and ready to go for 2022.

You do mean we'll be driving on it by 2022...... don't you!!!!:o

boardsuser1

betistuc wrote: »

You do mean we'll be driving on it by 2022...... don't you!!!!:o

Knowing Ireland it'll be 2032 :rolleyes:

touts

betistuc wrote: »

You do mean we'll be driving on it by 2022...... don't you!!!!:o

We're a few months away from an election. So the outgoing government publish an infrastructure plan that contains the M20.

After the next election it will turn out that the money won't be available because of economic downturn or overruns in a project in Dublin so the M20 will be mothballed

And then in a few years we'll be a few months away from an election. So the outgoing government publish an infrastructure plan that contains the M20.

After that election it will turn out that the money won't be available because of economic downturn or overruns in a project in Dublin so the M20 will be mothballed

And then in a few years........

We're trapped in a political version of the Twilight Zone.

boardsuser1

touts wrote: »

We're a few months away from an election. So the outgoing government publish an infrastructure plan that contains the M20.

After the next election it will turn out that the money won't be available because of economic downturn or overruns in a project in Dublin so the M20 will be mothballed

And then in a few years we'll be a few months away from an election. So the outgoing government publish an infrastructure plan that contains the M20.

After that election it will turn out that the money won't be available because of economic downturn or overruns in a project in Dublin so the M20 will be mothballed

And then in a few years........

We're trapped in a political version of the Twilight Zone.

Do you think Leo will go to the country that quickly?

source

touts wrote: »

We're a few months away from an election. So the outgoing government publish an infrastructure plan that contains the M20.

After the next election it will turn out that the money won't be available because of economic downturn or overruns in a project in Dublin so the M20 will be mothballed

And then in a few years we'll be a few months away from an election. So the outgoing government publish an infrastructure plan that contains the M20.

After that election it will turn out that the money won't be available because of economic downturn or overruns in a project in Dublin so the M20 will be mothballed

And then in a few years........

We're trapped in a political version of the Twilight Zone.

But isn't the next scheduled general election in 2021? So that would be 48 months ... ah yeah, just around the corner so.

boardsuser1

source wrote: »

But isn't the next scheduled general election in 2021? So that would be 48 months ... ah yeah, just around the corner so.

supply and confidence agreement is for 3 years.

source

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

supply and confidence agreement is for 3 years.

It might be, but everyone seems to be pretty happy overall with one or two exceptions. I can see this government going the full term.

I also don't think there's an appetite for an election only 3 years after the last one.

Edit: besides we're only one year since the agreement, which means there's still 2 to run in the agreement. Plenty of time for this to happen.

JupiterKid

Im pretty confident at this stage of the M20 being prioritised and progressing in the next couple of years. In terms of schemes not yet committed, outside of Dublin, it's easily the most pressing/urgent infrastructure scheme around and I think the current Govt understand that.

Water John

The point was made before that, in national strategy terms, the better value is to develop Cork-Lim and maybe to Gal as a counter balance to Dublin. This will ease the pressure and cost within Dublin.
A motorway link is essential and valuable.

marno21

Lads, a few years ago we were spending €500m a month at times on new roads.

Its clear Enda & Noonan had no interest whatseoever in road building. It was the quietest period for new roads building in decades.

Leo may have a different outlook on this. He has mentioned the M20 and Metro North (in the sense of building them as opposed to trotting out rubbish about excessive costs) more times in the last month than Enda did in a whole 6 years. Enda is the fella who said that Cork people should be glad they got a motorway to Dublin and not to get greedy.

The M20 is fast becoming a major political issue for the Munster area. When the M17/M18 opens it'll be clear as day as the big missing link in the national roads network, and its one of the most important links in the country. Its also highly important for the development of the area and the area will only stagnate without it.

road_high

Meanwhile he nursed along the N5 from obscurity and probably the M17 also !

Water John

Michael Noonan saw no reason to travel to Cork.

marno21

road_high wrote: »

Meanwhile he nursed along the N5 from obscurity and probably the M17 also !

Ringo will probably see the remaining N5 project through. Given the lack of pipeline national roads scheme it'll probably be done anyway, it's not like there's many other projects far ahead of it that can get the money instead.

Water John wrote: »

Michael Noonan saw no reason to travel to Cork.

Bit much for him to be so much anti-M20 and so pro-Limerick business when the Limerick Chamber are crying out for the M20.

Not sure how building a motorway to Galway is more advantageous for Limerick than building a motorway to Cork. If anything it brings Shannon Airport etc closer to Galway.

betistuc

"Leo may have a different outlook on this. He has mentioned the M20 and Metro North (in the sense of building them as opposed to trotting out rubbish about excessive costs) more times in the last month than Enda did in a whole 6 years"



Can I just quickly ask, what are these motorways to the North West and North that Leo was on about very recently? North one is A5 presumably!

Leonard Hofstadter

betistuc wrote: »

"Leo may have a different outlook on this. He has mentioned the M20 and Metro North (in the sense of building them as opposed to trotting out rubbish about excessive costs) more times in the last month than Enda did in a whole 6 years"



Can I just quickly ask, what are these motorways to the North West and North that Leo was on about very recently? North one is A5 presumably!

Yes, I'd love to know the same, I can only assume it's the A5 to Derry or something like that.

In all fairness, the North West does not have the population density to justify a motorway anywhere. Good quality single carriageway and/or 2+2 bypasses will be more than adequate, and of course should be done where necessary. If they upped the speed limit on the 2+2s to 110 then there would be even less of a disadvantage over not having a motorway - after all most dual carriageways in the UK are similar in standard to a 2+2 yet they are deemed suitable for 70 mph or 113 km/h so no reason why we couldn't allow 110 on our 2+2s.

The M20 is easily the biggest gap on our road network, it's beyond embarrassing that there is such a poor standard of road between our second and third biggest cities. I get the feeling from what Varadkar and the others in Government have been saying that this has built up enough momentum for something proper to be done about this in the next 2-3 years, but being realistic we're still not going to have a motorway between Cork and Limerick until 2025 at the earliest.

Water John

I think most would be happy to know it's coming and a definite timeline.

marno21

captainspeed wrote: »

Yes, I'd love to know the same, I can only assume it's the A5 to Derry or something like that.

In all fairness, the North West does not have the population density to justify a motorway anywhere. Good quality single carriageway and/or 2+2 bypasses will be more than adequate, and of course should be done where necessary. If they upped the speed limit on the 2+2s to 110 then there would be even less of a disadvantage over not having a motorway - after all most dual carriageways are similar in standard to a 2+2 yet they are deemed suitable for 70 mph or 113 km/h so no reason why we couldn't allow 110 on our 2+2s.

The M20 is easily the biggest gap on our road network, it's beyond embarrassing that there is such a poor standard of road between our second and third biggest cities. I get the feeling from what Varadkar and the others in Government have been saying that this has built up enough momentum for something proper to be done about this in the next 2-3 years, but being realistic we're still not going to have a motorway between Cork and Limerick until 2025 at the earliest.

The motorway to the north west is the A5 and the N14 dualling in Donegal. It's being done to 2+2 standard. Varadkar has reportedly committed £465m to it, not from the transport budget.

Donegal Storm

captainspeed wrote: »

In all fairness, the North West does not have the population density to justify a motorway anywhere. Good quality single carriageway and/or 2+2 bypasses will be more than adequate, and of course should be done where necessary. If they upped the speed limit on the 2+2s to 110 then there would be even less of a disadvantage over not having a motorway - after all most dual carriageways in the UK are similar in standard to a 2+2 yet they are deemed suitable for 70 mph or 113 km/h so no reason why we couldn't allow 110 on our 2+2s.

Derry/Letterkenny/Strabane triangle has a population of ~150k, there's only handful of other locations in the country that compare yet transport links are absolutely pitiful and comparable to third world. Fully agreed that the M20 is a bigger priority but once it's finally built the NW will be the glaring gap in our modern transport network.

Kevwoody

Donegal Storm wrote: »

Derry/Letterkenny/Strabane triangle has a population of ~150k, there's only handful of other locations in the country that compare yet transport links are absolutely pitiful and comparable to third world. Fully agreed that the M20 is a bigger priority but once it's finally built the NW will be the glaring gap in our modern transport network.

Totally agree 100% with this. The road from the border at Aughnacloy the whole way to Letterkenny is an absolute disgrace. After the M20 it should be top priority.

marno21

Lot of newspaper articles about the Indecon report by Limerick/Cork chambers in the last week, however there is one mistake being widely reported.

A lot of reports, including that by RTE, state that the M20 will reap €128m worth of economic benefits to the exchequer. This is wrong. The figure is actually €128m per annum.

An initial investment of €700m-1bn will result in that. That's an annual return on investment of between 12% and 16% per annum, in addition to the other facts such as reducing the number of accidents along the corridor by 118 per year, yes 118!

I'd love to see the figures on the Listowel bypass to say that it is deserving of funding vs this. Impressively depressing how this is a scheme not considered worthwhile.

boardsuser1

marno21 wrote: »

Lot of newspaper articles about the Indecon report by Limerick/Cork chambers in the last week, however there is one mistake being widely reported.

A lot of reports, including that by RTE, state that the M20 will reap €128m worth of economic benefits to the exchequer. This is wrong. The figure is actually €128m per annum.

An initial investment of €700m-1bn will result in that. That's an annual return on investment of between 12% and 16% per annum, in addition to the other facts such as reducing the number of accidents along the corridor by 118 per year, yes 118!

I'd love to see the figures on the Listowel bypass to say that it is deserving of funding vs this. Impressively depressing how this is a scheme not considered worthwhile.

Now that is interesting.

It'd pay for itself in about 8 years.

marno21

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Now that is interesting.

It'd pay for itself in about 8 years.

Dunkettle Interchange would pay for itself within 2/3 years and it's being advanced at glacier rate.

Same with M28.

Low benefit political projects took centre stage under the Kenny government. Maybe there might be a change now.

Water John

Thanks Marno. Haven't seen their report but it possibly doesn't include the concept of the duo of cities linked by motorway, acting as a counterbalance to Dublin in national terms. This will ease infrastructure and costs in the Dublin area.

Ha, you could argue and you'd be right that, it's in Dublin's interest to have the motorway M20 completed.

marno21

Water John wrote: »

Thanks Marno. Haven't seen their report but it possibly doesn't include the concept of the duo of cities linked by motorway, acting as a counterbalance to Dublin in national terms. This will ease infrastructure and costs in the Dublin area.

Ha, you could argue and you'd be right that, it's in Dublin's interest to have the motorway M20 completed.

Forgot to attach the report; some bedtime reading: https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/m20-executive-summary-june-2017.pdf

boardsuser1

marno21 wrote: »

Dunkettle Interchange would pay for itself within 2/3 years and it's being advanced at glacier rate.

Same with M28.

Low benefit political projects took centre stage under the Kenny government. Maybe there might be a change now.

Kenny's "Cork got its motorway to Dublin" remark was the straw that broke the camels back with people in both Cork and Limerick.

I haven't looked at the plans as yet on the Dunkettle interchange.

I think the uproar in Rochestown is partially to blame for the delay there.

You'd think with the government banging on about emissions so much that this road being built would actually help reduce it all.

Water John

The outer North Link should also be completed as part of the puzzle.

marno21

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Kenny's "Cork got its motorway to Dublin" remark was the straw that broke the camels back with people in both Cork and Limerick.

I haven't looked at the plans as yet on the Dunkettle interchange.

I think the uproar in Rochestown is partially to blame for the delay there.

You'd think with the government banging on about emissions so much that this road being built would actually help reduce it all.

Galway has 3 motorways now. Cork has 1. Sense?

Shameful as well that there's no plans to advance the N25 between Carrigtwohill and Youghal at present. None whatsoever.

Water John wrote: »

The outer North Link should also be completed as part of the puzzle.

It'll have to be. The M20 can't finish at Blackpool given that most cars on the M20 will have no business in Blackpool (airport, West Cork, Cobh, Ringaskiddy, UCC/CIT, CUH etc)