M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

marno21

myshirt wrote: »

We have had a lot of heavy hitters in Limerick over the years?

Why haven't they delivered for Limerick? And who is going to take up the mantle. It looks like very poor succession planning from both Fine Gael and Fianna Fail in Limerick. Don't even start on Labour or SF, we're f#cked if anyone there gets in. Absolutely no where near the quality of politician we need to push this city on and give the good people the platform they need.

That the M20 isn't moving is just outright insanity.

I'd like to see someone like Emmett O'Brien get in. Someone with competence, hard working, and an ability to drive results. Paddy O'Donovan not the worst to be fair, Tom Neville is a joke, as is Kieran O'Donnell, James Collins or Leddin.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not defending the previous Government under FF, but they built the M7 to Limerick, the M8 to Cork and after these had completed had the foot to the floor on the M20. They had this M20 scheme at An Bord Pleanala in 2011 before it was sent back to add in a Buttevent junction and was then cancelled by the FG government in 2011.

Since then, there has been no movement until DTTAS allocated €1m to update traffic models for this, which will be useless unless the money to progress planning is committed.

Enda last year said “Cork got its motorway to Dublin. It’s amazing how the expectations grow just as the economy starts to improve,”

This coming a man who has got a motorway from Galway to Tuam built, along with completing two schemes on the N5 Dublin-Mayo road and another 2 given full planning funding. No money for anything in Cork though.

marno21

KC161 wrote: »

Why Michael Noonan and Jan O'Sullivan didn't get this going on their end is inexplicable.

Kieran O'Donnell seems to be trying to keep it going, That's just the Limerick side.

I won't even get started on the Cork end of it :rolleyes:

It's clear there is simply no interest at Government level in progressing this scheme. In recent years, the Galway bypass, N5 Ballaghaderreen-Strokestown and N69 Listowel bypass have been fully funded through the planning process. Yet there is no money for any roads in Cork.

myshirt

KC161 wrote: »

Why Michael Noonan and Jan O'Sullivan didn't get this going on their end is inexplicable.

Kieran O'Donnell seems to be trying to keep it going, That's just the Limerick side.

I won't even get started on the Cork end of it :rolleyes:

Kieran O'Donnell only got the finger out once he lost his seat. Good to see, but I don't think the man is of the quality of representation Limerick needs.

And it's not like we don't breed them well in Limerick.

Anyway, I digress.

Chamber of Commerce in both locations are driving this better than anyone.

boardsuser1

marno21 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not defending the previous Government under FF, but they built the M7 to Limerick, the M8 to Cork and after these had completed had the foot to the floor on the M20. They had this M20 scheme at An Bord Pleanala in 2011 before it was sent back to add in a Buttevent junction and was then cancelled by the FG government in 2011.

Since then, there has been no movement until DTTAS allocated €1m to update traffic models for this, which will be useless unless the money to progress planning is committed.

Enda last year said “Cork got its motorway to Dublin. It’s amazing how the expectations grow just as the economy starts to improve,”

This coming a man who has got a motorway from Galway to Tuam built, along with completing two schemes on the N5 Dublin-Mayo road and another 2 given full planning funding. No money for anything in Cork though.

Wasn't it Varadkar who pulled the plug on it?

That alone says where this is going in the next 2-3 years.

marno21

myshirt wrote: »

Kieran O'Donnell only got the finger out once he lost his seat. Good to see, but I don't think the man is of the quality of representation Limerick needs.

And it's not like we don't breed them well in Limerick.

Anyway, I digress.

Chamber of Commerce in both locations are driving this better than anyone.

Whatever about him losing his seat, at least he's showing some kind of interest in progressing it. The rest of them don't seem to give a ****. Not sure how they can create growth and jobs around Limerick with these ****e roads in place. The Gov. can talk endlessly about growth and recovery and jobs but there is very little room for sustainable growth given the state of both the road network and rail network in Ireland.

Chris_5339762

marno21 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not defending the previous Government under FF, but they built the M7 to Limerick, the M8 to Cork and after these had completed had the foot to the floor on the M20. They had this M20 scheme at An Bord Pleanala in 2011 before it was sent back to add in a Buttevent junction and was then cancelled by the FG government in 2011.

Since then, there has been no movement until DTTAS allocated €1m to update traffic models for this, which will be useless unless the money to progress planning is committed.

Enda last year said “Cork got its motorway to Dublin. It’s amazing how the expectations grow just as the economy starts to improve,”

This coming a man who has got a motorway from Galway to Tuam built, along with completing two schemes on the N5 Dublin-Mayo road and another 2 given full planning funding. No money for anything in Cork though.

It was part of the Atlantic Corridor originally but for reasons of The West, the Galway to Limerick section got prioritised. The M20 was originally three schemes which got a fair way through planning, then it got planned as the M20 again which was a northern and a southern section which Varadker canned because there wasn't enough money to pay for the CPOs. So it languished.

Incidentally, the reason the M8 and M7 etc got done first is because they got classified as Main Interurbans. The issue was that the M20 was never considered a Main Interurban or it would have been lumped in with that. (Also, the M6 Galway bypass should have been included there too).

marno21

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

It was part of the Atlantic Corridor originally but for reasons of The West, the Galway to Limerick section got prioritised. The M20 was originally three schemes which got a fair way through planning, then it got planned as the M20 again which was a northern and a southern section which Varadker canned because there wasn't enough money to pay for the CPOs. So it languished.

Incidentally, the reason the M8 and M7 etc got done first is because they got classified as Main Interurbans. The issue was that the M20 was never considered a Main Interurban or it would have been lumped in with that. (Also, the M6 Galway bypass should have been included there too).

In fairness, I would've prioritised the M7 and M8 too. There was a ton of money poured into those schemes and it was always accepted that after the M1, M6, M7, M8 and M9 were done that the Atlantic Corridor and the M11 were next.

I would've included the Galway bypass and the Dunkettle Interchange with the Interurbans, as the mainlines of the five interurbans may be complete but you still have chronic congestion at the terminus of the M6 and the M8, and if you want you could include the N21 as being the end of a natural continuation of the M7.

The fact that we now have a roads investment program with no M20 included however is not acceptable. It should have its planning funded at the very least.

Reputable Rog

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

It was part of the Atlantic Corridor originally but for reasons of The West, the Galway to Limerick section got prioritised. The M20 was originally three schemes which got a fair way through planning, then it got planned as the M20 again which was a northern and a southern section which Varadker canned because there wasn't enough money to pay for the CPOs. So it languished.

Incidentally, the reason the M8 and M7 etc got done first is because they got classified as Main Interurbans. The issue was that the M20 was never considered a Main Interurban or it would have been lumped in with that. (Also, the M6 Galway bypass should have been included there too).

They got their cpo's done and were nearly out the other side of Planning before Varadkar got in.

bear1

Reputable Rog wrote: »

They got their cpo's done and were nearly out the other side of Planning before Varadkar got in.

Amazing to think it would have been built by now if he hadn't have shelved it.

boardsuser1

bear1 wrote: »

Amazing to think it would have been built by now if he hadn't have shelved it.

The 2011 genreal election was called 1 year early due to the green Party forcing Cowen's hand basically.

If they hadn't done it and the election was held when it was supposed to have been, would this have gotten off the ground does one reckon?

Vanquished

KC161 wrote: »

The 2011 genreal election was called 1 year early due to the green Party forcing Cowen's hand basically.

If they hadn't done it and the election was held when it was supposed to have been, would this have gotten off the ground does one reckon?

Eh I think you're forgetting one small little detail there.. the incompetence and mismangement of the economy by Fianna Fail that led to the IMF bailout in November 2010.

boardsuser1

Vanquished wrote: »

Eh I think you're forgetting one small little detail there.. the incompetence and mismangement of the economy by Fianna Fail that led to the IMF bailout in November 2010.

The current crowd are just as bad if not worse.

Vanquished

KC161 wrote: »

The current crowd are just as bad if not worse.

Yeah the "current crowd" are worse than the FF government that destroyed the economy. Great logic!

blindsider

KC161 wrote: »

The 2011 genreal election was called 1 year early due to the green Party forcing Cowen's hand basically.

If they hadn't done it and the election was held when it was supposed to have been, would this have gotten off the ground does one reckon?

Not a hope in hell.

The civil Servants who actually make these decisions had already decided that it was shelved - the announcement just came from a different party.

Short-term, the pols have little influence over this stuff. Long-term, they can say "Find the money - change the policy."

boardsuser1

Vanquished wrote: »

Yeah the "current crowd" are worse than the FF government that destroyed the economy. Great logic!

They are repeating the mistakes fianna fail made, look at the property market lately?

Or this?
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/fianna-fail-and-fine-gael-level-in-latest-political-opinion-poll-793040.html

marno21

Lads, can we please keep the discussion to the M20?

Vanquished

KC161 wrote: »

They are repeating the mistakes fianna fail made, look at the property market lately?

That's way too simplistic. Property prices are spiralling due to a lack of supply and reluctance of the banks to lend. The complete opposite of the boom-time scenario.

***Apologies for straying off topic.

boardsuser1

Vanquished wrote: »

That's way too simplistic. Property prices are spiralling due to a lack of supply and reluctance of the banks to lend. The complete opposite of the boom-time scenario.

***Apologies for straying off topic.

:rolleyes:

I'm going back to the M20 issues.

boardsuser1

I might as well be p1ssing against the wind, but 140 characters isn't enough for what i wanted to ask in full.

https://twitter.com/CorkTruckDriver/status/873620972464689152

Reputable Rog

KC161 wrote: »

I might as well be p1ssing against the wind, but 140 characters isn't enough for what i wanted to ask in full.

https://twitter.com/CorkTruckDriver/status/873620972464689152

I think if you changed your handle to Dublin Stockbroker you may get a reply.
Leo doesn't do ordinary folk outside of Dublin.

boardsuser1

Reputable Rog wrote: »

I think if you changed your handle to Dublin Stockbroker you may get a reply.
Leo doesn't do ordinary folk outside of Dublin.

Don't put it past me :pac:

marno21

Patrick O'Donovan was on the Week in Politics earlier saying that the Cork-Limerick motorway is a key infrastructure project for the country.

Funny how the Junior Minister for Transport, a TD in the Limerick constituency can come on TV and say that meanwhile him and his senior Minister refuse to restart planning on it. How about that.

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

Patrick O'Donovan was on the Week in Politics earlier saying that the Cork-Limerick motorway is a key infrastructure project for the country.

Funny how the Junior Minister for Transport, a TD in the Limerick constituency can come on TV and say that meanwhile him and his senior Minister refuse to restart planning on it. How about that.

Talk is cheap. Committing to circa 1 billion expenditure is something quite different

Cookiemunster

road_high wrote: »

Talk is cheap. Committing to circa 1 billion expenditure is something quite different

The thing is it doesn't need €1bn. It needs €10-15m to get planning started. It would be 3 or 4 years before they'd need to find money for CPOs.

zulutango

The new Minister for Finance, Paschal O'Donoghue, is the one who put the M20 project back because he felt the current traffic volumes didn't justify the construction of a motorway, showing in one simple statement that he has no idea about the importance of infrastructural development. I was quite dismayed when I heard he'd been appointed to Finance. The other thing is that the two most senior decision makers in government are both Dublin based politicians. I don't see this turning out well ..

JCX BXC

While stuck in heavy traffic in Charleville, all I can think of is how far away I'd be from here now if there was a motorways.

Idbatterim

@campaignforleo As Taoiseach elect, what are your plans for the M20 #Cork to #Limerick motorway? Will you get this project done and dusted?

I'm sure he will spoof and not deliver anything, much like every department he has led so far. On another note, could they not put a nominal toll on the route? like E1.50 or 2, to get it started?

lucernarian

Given the number of senior members of the cabinet from Cork and Limerick at the time of some crucial infrastructure decisions, I can't see Pascal being much worse than Noonan was.

zulutango

lucernarian wrote:

Given the number of senior members of the cabinet from Cork and Limerick at the time of some crucial infrastructure decisions, I can't see Pascal being much worse than Noonan was.

Well, Paschal actually stopped it when he was minister. Not sure how much worse you can get really.

Sam Russell

zulutango wrote: »

Well, Paschal actually stopped it when he was minister. Not sure how much worse you can get really.

Well Paschal could be worse - he could have stopped the MN and DU when he was minister.

Oh, wait - he did.