The Fishal Olympics Boxing Thread

efb

I isually like Mick Dowling's analysis but I thought he was a bit patronizing to Katie Taylor when Collins asked her about Barnes' chances in the semis

sligobhoy67

efb wrote: »

I isually like Mick Dowling's analysis but I thought he was a bit patronizing to Katie Taylor when Collins asked her about Barnes' chances in the semis

Did again see the Kurbanov fight? I heard he going DQ'ed AGAIN against Shynaliev - that cant be true is it

Big Ears

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

Did again see the Kurbanov fight? I heard he going DQ'ed AGAIN against Shynaliev - that cant be true is it

Didn't see it myself but it is true, disqualified for biting......

efb

betfair offering 12's on Sutherland to Gold, if he can get over tomorrow and that's a very big if, he stands a good chance

Dodge

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

Did again see the Kurbanov fight? I heard he going DQ'ed AGAIN against Shynaliev - that cant be true is it

Showed a bit of it on the RTE round up. Was 6-6, then received two warnings for "wrestling". Ended up biting the guy on the shoulder...

Diamondmaker

Thats awesome!

I have been rocking a few boats on the athletics forum suggesting that we should focus funds and trsaining on our already strong sports and divert funds from the long shot sport where we compete far shorter from the required level.

Imagine the power house boxing nation we would become if it got much more funding diverted from the miserable failures of the athletice funding that rarely delievers.

Over the years boxing has more often delivered the best return for investment on medals. Its something we should get behind as a Nation as our spriot

Big Ears

Diamondmaker wrote: »

Thats awesome!

I have been rocking a few boats on the athletics forum suggesting that we should focus funds and trsaining on our already strong sports and divert funds from the long shot sport where we compete far shorter from the required level.

Imagine the power house boxing nation we would become if it got much more funding diverted from the miserable failures of the athletice funding that rarely delievers.

Over the years boxing has more often delivered the best return for investment on medals. Its something we should get behind as a Nation as our spriot

I think we should put even more investment into boxing as the talent is clearly there, there are some very good fighters who won national titles this year but failed to make the Olympics. Hell there's some very good fighters who didn't win national titles this year but under the right environment they could qualify for the Olympics and do well there.

The great thing about us as a country focusing on trying to be succesful as a boxing nation is that we have a history of it and it's not like Britain who say a weak sport in track cycling and decided to rake money into it for the sake of medals. We're steeped in boxing history and after fighters represent us proudly as amateurs gunning for European, World and Olympic titles, they can turn pro(if they wish) and look at European and World titles there.

People love boxing in this country, it seems everyone had forgotten that for quite some time. I sat hungover in my sitting room with 8 other (hungover)friends watching John Joe Joyce do the country proud and every person in that room was screaming him on. Those other 7 aren't what you consider real boxing fans either, they'd only watch what's on RTÉ but yet that fight meant so much to them.

Everyone was truly gutted when he lost, not because an Irish athlete had been unlucky in not progressing in the Olympics, because an Irish boxer had been unlucky in not progressing in the Olympics.

That's partially because Joyce seems such a likeable lad, if he was to turn pro I think he'd get great support. But it would have been the same for any of our boxers.

We'll never be Cuba, with Gaelic Football, Soccer, Hurling and Rugby there's just too many main stream sport here for that to happen. But why not make boxing our 5th sport, we've the talent here, the public have a huge interest in it when it's publicly available and we've a history to go with it.

All we need is a bit more initiative and a bit more funding.
Irish boxers should be shown when competing in World and European Championships aswell, it would be piss cheap to show and would gather reasonable viewing audiences.

thirtyfoot

Diamondmaker wrote: »

Imagine the power house boxing nation we would become if it got much more funding diverted from the miserable failures of the athletice funding that rarely delievers.

Its not a case of diverting money from one sport to another, we need diversity of sport to be a true sporting nation, like the Australians. I believe the boxing story is the success story of Irish sport and we should use its template to help the other less successfull sports (like my own athletics) not sacrifice our sporting diversity by focussing on only a handfull. The grant scheme is equitable enough at the moment and rewards athletes of all sports who get to a high global level (mainly off their own steam). More money is needed to aid development at grassroots so more can get to an elite level. I'd be interested to know the makeup of the High Performance Centre and see what has made it so successfull. More money to boxing, but more to badminton, kayaking, sailing etc etc.

The use of the word miserable failure to describe an olym pian shows some ignorance I'm afraid.

walshb

Big Ears wrote: »

Before I start giving accolades to what is an immense achievement by two of our boxers, why are RTÉ continually lying to us.

Dowling said Blanco beat Sutherland by 2 points in the World Championship, it was actually 20-13.

Peter Collins claimed Barnes lost to Zou 30-13 in the World Championships, he didn't it was 22-8. Are they just making stuff up for the craic ?

Jeffries loss to Egan in the EU Championships was on a cut btw, but Egan is still the better boxer for me.

Anyway, simply fantastic from the two lads. Barnes seems to be continually improving and is so hard to hit with an almost Winky Wright like guard.
He knows how to unsettle opponents aswell as he's very rough in there and for his size(he's actually small enough at the weight) very strong.

The bad news for Paddy is he's in against a very classy opponent next. Zou Shiming forces guys to lunge in to try and connect on him and then he's able to counter with cat like reflexes. He's also got a big advantage being Chinese as despite what Walshb has said in another thread home boxers do get favoured in the Olympics and Chinese boxers have been favoured so far.

This is not a 50/50 contest, it's a 90/10 contest in Zou's favour. But Paddy will give it his all and that's all we can expect from him. He's done fantastic this far and has been a credit to Irish boxing and Irish Sport, as has Egan.


Now Kenny, I expected him to win today and he did so fairly comfortably.
I think the Ghanaian(who I felt should have beat the Brazilian) would have been tougher for Egan and would have put more pressure on. With that said the Brazilian was made to look worse than he was today because he just didn't know what to do with Kenny's footwork and movement. He didn't let his hands go more because he knew he'd be countered and basically the Brazilian was coming in with two chances today, very slim and none.....and he knew it.

I said a few days ago it would be disappointing if Egan didn't win Silver considering his draw and I stand by that. An Olympic bronze medalist is a great achievement don't get me wrong, but he is capable of more and hopefully will deliver more.

Tomorrow will be very tough for Sutherland, but it'll be bombs away from both men and we'll be able to enjoy it no matter what the result. If he were to win though it'd be the best win out of any of the lads to get to the semi-finals because Blanco is the World Silver medalist, he punches as hard as Darren and he's a cuter slicker boxer than Darren. We can live in hope though and no doubt he'll be inspired by what went on today.

I never siad that the Chinese boxers wouldn't be favored and I agree that home advantage will benefit the Chinese. I disagreed that there was actual collusion involved between the Chinese an the authorities, that's all.

Now, to the Egan bout. Did anyone else feel that Egan's opponent was really really poor?

Egan is brilliant and boxed beautiful; but that guy was useless and as Big Ears also thought, I too had the Ghanian beating him and I had fears for Kenny if the Ghanian got thru.

I have never seen such a one sided bout in the Olympics as what I saw with Egan's bout.

I think Kenny can get to the final and who knows from there. I really hope he does it.

Dodge

walshb wrote: »

Now, to the Egan bout. Did anyone else feel that Egan's opponent was really really poor?

He was, but he's a half decent record behind him. Beating fighters from Puerto Rico and the USA to get there

walshb

Dodge wrote: »

He was, but he's a half decent record behind him. Beating fighters from Puerto Rico and the USA to get there

God, what does that say for the state of the US team?

I just thought he was so poor. Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining
and I am thoroughly happy that Kenny had such an easy win. I would rather
that than a hard win. I just wouldn't get too complacent and hype it
up too much. Egan is a class act and I hope he and the team stay fully
focused and realise that the win, though great, was against a punch bag.

buck65

You are right walshb, Silva was atrocious, occasion seemed to get to him and Egan destroyed him.
Did he throw one decnt punch? I doubt it.
What time is Darren fighting at.

walrusgumble

right. i am going to ask an extremely retarded question,

Basically the two irish boxers are now in the semi's, great stuff and hopefully they will go further. everyone says they are guaranteed at least a bronze. i was watching the bbc coverage yesterday (great if you have the sky box) and the pundits mentioned that Jefferies - Egan's next opponent is also guaranteed a bronze medal aswell.

Now at the serious risk of getting hammered here, if there are 4 people in a semi final, isn't one going to lose out of a medal (assuming its like soccer ie third/fourth place playoff) and the two in the final pick up silver and gold.

sorry!

Big Ears

walrusgumble wrote: »

right. i am going to ask an extremely retarded question,

Basically the two irish boxers are now in the semi's, great stuff and hopefully they will go further. everyone says they are guaranteed at least a bronze. i was watching the bbc coverage yesterday (great if you have the sky box) and the pundits mentioned that Jefferies - Egan's next opponent is also guaranteed a bronze medal aswell.

Now at the serious risk of getting hammered here, if there are 4 people in a semi final, isn't one going to lose out of a medal (assuming its like soccer ie third/fourth place playoff) and the two in the final pick up silver and gold.

sorry!

Not retarded at all, it's one most people not used to amateur boxing have either asked or wondered about.

The answer is both semi-finalists receive a Bronze medal and there is no play-off fight. This is in the interest of safety and fairness as both losing semi-finalists would have obviously lost and possibly taken a beating.
Two beatings in a short space of time is a bad idea, and combined with the chance of fighters missing out on Bronze medals because they are unable to fight a playoff due the injuries it was decided back in the 60's that they should scrap the 3-4th place fight.


Best of luck to Darren today, if there's a time to pull off a shock it's now.

walshb

walrusgumble wrote: »

right. i am going to ask an extremely retarded question,

Basically the two irish boxers are now in the semi's, great stuff and hopefully they will go further. everyone says they are guaranteed at least a bronze. i was watching the bbc coverage yesterday (great if you have the sky box) and the pundits mentioned that Jefferies - Egan's next opponent is also guaranteed a bronze medal aswell.

Now at the serious risk of getting hammered here, if there are 4 people in a semi final, isn't one going to lose out of a medal (assuming its like soccer ie third/fourth place playoff) and the two in the final pick up silver and gold.

sorry!

This has been asked several times in this thread and the case is that both losing semi finalists receive a Bronze and do NOT have to fight off for it!

thirtyfoot

Big Ears wrote: »

Best of luck to Darren today, if there's a time to pull off a shock it's now.

Whats the craic today, is he an outsider or not expected to progress?

Diamondmaker

Tingle wrote: »

Its not a case of diverting money from one sport to another, we need diversity of sport to be a true sporting nation, like the Australians. .

In the absence of enough funds to go around diversity is not possible. Peter has to be robbed to pay Paul. We will never be a true sporting nation like Oz, it is not in our culture.

In Austarlia there are huge cultural issues in the overfunding of sports!
Our attitide in Ireland, to sport outside ( our ball games) would not allow disproportinate funding into sports away from Arts and Education or Health for example.

Ozzies are willing to put up with short comings in other areas, as their desire for sport is far greater than the Irish. ( you have to live here to appreciate this )

As Homer said " sport sports sports sports sports "

Also Boxing is also traditionally associated with Ireland. This Olympics should really boost boxings profile, which incidently, big bouts also draw far greater crowds than track meets, which is an indicator of public desire.

Sport is about succes, entertaining the public and bringing pride and scuccess to a nation. In the Olympic arena Boxing is by far the best chance of this, proven by yet another Olympics.

Im not sure on the full medal to competitior ratio, but at the minute it could be as high as 3 from 5 tis year.
Carruth and McCullough other notible winners from a similarly small team of fighters.

When it comes to public funds best value for money should be sought and boxing clearly delivers this.

I come from an Athletics background but as a spectator and Irish person I would rather see winners in the ring than honourable efforts on a track.

peejay1986

What time (irish time) is Sutherland's fight on at?

Diamondmaker

peejay1986 wrote: »

What time (irish time) is Sutherland's fight on at?

1pm. !

thirtyfoot

Diamondmaker wrote: »

I come from an Athletics background but as a spectator and Irish person I would rather see winners in the ring than honourable efforts on a track.

I presume you would have been in the boxing forum 4 years ago calling Andy Lee a miserable failure while jumping up and down and trying to get everyone off to the gymkhana over on the Equistrian forum (until the horse got caught:)). Point being, you can't take a short sighted view on sport governance, thats what has been done all along and it needs to change. The boxers came under pressure when the "system" didn't seem to be working up to pretty recently as far as I am aware but things have slowly come together. Its not a case of pumping money in because we can get medals there or here, its not always the money but the system. Lets see what the boxing system is and apply to other sports. Boxing is our top Olympic sport no doubt, but Athletics is close behind - ask the man in the street who Hugh Russell or John Treacy are. I am excited whats happening in the boxing setup and as an athletics man want a piece of the action for my sport!

peejay1986

Diamondmaker wrote: »

1pm. !

Thank you

Dodge

Diamondmaker wrote: »

Im not sure on the full medal to competitior ratio, but at the minute it could be as high as 3 from 5 tis year

Ireland have had 100 boxers in the Olympics (including the 5 this year). 11 of them have won medals (including the 2 so far this year).

I'd be quite happy to see the Government channeled through the OCI fund sports in a targetted strategic measure but the bootom line is that neither the Irish government nor the Irish people have any great yearning to do so. This fallacy of "a great sporting nation" and irish people being "sports mad" needs to be blown out of the water. Success mad, maybe.

I'm not even saying that spending money on horse racing and GAA and other areas is wrong (although its not where I'd spend the money) but the choice is simple. Either plough huge amounts of money creating the facilities and structures that may lead to increased success at olympic and world level OR continue on and hope we get the odd medal here and there. Either way, as long as the people who whinge once every four years when they see other countries dripping in medals realise that the problem isn't the athletes, its the attitude to sport here.

walshb

It's crazy to think that such a supposed wealthy country like Ireland still sees Egan not even having his own BASE gym. He trains in a school hall where he has to put up and take down the gear and it doesn't even have a permanent ring. This guy is Olympic class!

Diamondmaker

Dodge wrote: »

Ireland have had 100 boxers in the Olympics (including the 5 this year). 11 of them have won medals (including the 2 so far this year).

Of course Barnes was the 100th, 11 and possibly 12 % of Irish boxers medal.
Thats a great return, I am not part of the boxing scene but have seen some of the gyms they train in. If we can have Olympic pool and quality track and field facilities surely we can have a world class boxing facility?

Do we have such a thing any where?

alanceltic

walshb wrote: »

It's crazy to think that such a supposed wealthy country like Ireland still sees Egan not even having his own BASE gym. He trains in a school hall where he has to put up and take down the gear and it doesn't even have a permanent ring. This guy is Olympic class!

Does this not say more about the people who are nunning these clubs (and dont get me wrong i know they do precious work for the love of it), there is government grants available alongside lotto funding, if you put your best foot forward you could secure funding of up to 90% for capital spending (im pretty sure), from time to time there is always one off fundings made available (dorment accounts is regularly distributed amongst underfunded organisations) so if these clubs dont have the correct facilities mabey its an administration problem rather than a funding problem!!!!

cowzerp

Tingle wrote: »

ask the man in the street who Hugh Russell or John Treacy are. I am excited whats happening in the boxing setup and as an athletics man want a piece of the action for my sport!

Who's Hugh russell? seriously
and john treacy, is he the guy that is on rte now and again?
im the man on the street, your talking about people from your circle of friends im afraid.

Big Ears

Tingle wrote: »

Whats the craic today, is he an outsider or not expected to progress?

He's an outsider as he was beaten 20-13 by Blanco at the World Championships.
That was actually an upset at the time, but little was known about Blanco then and he went on to win Silver at those World Championships beating one of the best fighters in the division(and a Gold medal winner in Athens) Artayev in the semi-final.

He beat Britain's James DeGale and German Buga comfortably aswell, both of whom qualified for the Olympics.

He looked pretty good in his last 16 bout, looking quicker and smarter than Darren and hitting every bit as hard.

He was knocked down in unusual circumstances though. After hurting his opponent the referee went in to administer a count, as Blanco was relaxed his opponent came back and floored him heavily. Terrible refereeing, and although Blanco wasn't really set it shows he can be hurt.

It wouldn't be a huge upset for Darren to win, but it would be an upset.
Should be a great fight anyway.

cowzerp wrote: »

Who's Hugh russell? seriously
and john treacy, is he the guy that is on rte now and again?
im the man on the street, your talking about people from your circle of friends im afraid.

He's a boxer, won us a Bronze in Moscow in 1980, he won the British title at Bantamweight and Flyweight as a pro.

Yes Treacy is better known than him, but Treacy won a Silver medal and did it at the 1984 games, which although a long time ago is still that bit fresher in peoples minds. Ask people who Michael Caruth is and they'll know.

ROCKMAN

Tingle wrote: »

Whats the craic today, is he an outsider or not expected to progress?

Hope this will answer your question , I 'll will leave it to posters to sum it up

Big Ears wrote: »

Tomorrow will be very tough for Sutherland, but it'll be bombs away from both men and we'll be able to enjoy it no matter what the result. If he were to win though it'd be the best win out of any of the lads to get to the semi-finals because Blanco is the World Silver medalist, he punches as hard as Darren and he's a cuter slicker boxer than Darren. We can live in hope though and no doubt he'll be inspired by what went on today.

walshb wrote: »

Well Dowling misled us there didn't he?

I was impressed by Darren's enthusiasm and his focus as much as his talent. He never relented, took flush shots and still was calm and not fazed. His defence isn't the best, but that has always been the case and it is his style, which he can't change too much at this stage.

Darren's strength is his power and stamina and I would say, CHIN.

He doesn't employ lateral footwork, which again, can't really be altered much at this stage.

I am looking forward to the bout, but believe this Blanco will be a little too clever and fleet footed.

Views I support , In short ,he is up against it but as with all power fighter he will always have a chance. I think he will rise is game , but will it be enough ,
HMMM.

cowzerp

Big Ears wrote: »

He's a boxer, won us a Bronze in Moscow in 1980, he won the British title at Bantamweight and Flyweight as a pro.

Yes Treacy is better known than him, but Treacy won a Silver medal and did it at the 1984 games, which although a long time ago is still that bit fresher in peoples minds. Ask people who Michael Caruth is and they'll know.

My bad! but i was only 1!
and your right, ask people who carruth is, even ask people who francie barret is and he'd be better known than treacy outside boxing or athletics circles.

Treacy is fresh in peoples mind as a pundit more than as an athlete also.
if Hugh russell was a pundit he would also be fresh on peoples minds.

Dodge

cowzerp wrote: »

Who's Hugh russell? seriously
and john treacy, is he the guy that is on rte now and again?
im the man on the street, your talking about people from your circle of friends im afraid.

You proved his point man...

Anyway, back to the boxing. Wins for Russia, Italy and Cuba in the Fly so far. Thailand 2-0 up on Tajikistan in the last. Darren's on next