The M50 Barrier Free Tolling Thread

Rozbeef

Sizzler wrote: »

Have you got a solicitor?

Dont be admitting your guilt online before the case is even heard mate :eek:

No I don't have a solicitor. I'm just thinking of going there myself on the day and pleading my case... But I'm not sure how valid it is seeing as, well, I am guilty in theory.

Carawaystick

Rozbeef wrote: »

No I don't have a solicitor. I'm just thinking of going there myself on the day and pleading my case... But I'm not sure how valid it is seeing as, well, I am guilty in theory.

You aren't guilty of anything, it's a civil case. Only a criminal case determines guilt or innocence.

Rozbeef

Carawaystick wrote: »

You aren't guilty of anything, it's a civil case. Only a criminal case determines guilt or innocence.

Oh right, as I said never been to court before and my law classes are a distant memory...

Could anyone give advice on what to expect? And the likelyhood of the court/judge letting me explain my case?

PirateShampoo

Rozbeef wrote: »

Oh right, as I said never been to court before and my law classes are a distant memory...

Could anyone give advice on what to expect? And the likelyhood of the court/judge letting me explain my case?

You will probably end up with a heavly reduced fine.

The whole system is a joke. Wonder how much its costing them for all the people they are bringing to cort.

ImeldaD

Have just found this board and thread and am somewhat relieved to see that so many others are in agreement with the farce that is eflow on the M50 toll bridge.

They are totally inflexible. I have just missed the payment deadline (simply forgot) and paid a toll after 8pm the next day. I have sent them loads of emails asking why they can't allow longer, say 7day
s, to allow for people crossing it going to airport and away for a mini break, say a weekend.

I can't believe there is a toll anywhere else in the world that doesn't have at least a few booths that you can pay as you cross. This surely has to be against them that they can't accommodate this.

Also disputed toll received back in July (genuine, I didn't use it). I disputed it on line and never heard another dickey bird from them so presumed it was their mistake. NOW I have received letters from their solicitors in Tralee threatening court action. To be honest I would nearly welcome a day in court to vent my frustrations at them. I know someone who rang the same solicitors when they got similar letter and they were rude, obnoxious and arrogant and wouldn't even consider negotiating lower charge than €152 fine (x 2) just to settle it. Reckon the solicitors are the last ones to talk to as they want to go to court and get more money from eflow. I really can't believe this system is being tolerated and would love someone (yes maybe Shane Ross as suggested elsewhere) to organise a class action or something. Maybe after all this Lisbon talk and the bankers talk etc. Prime Time will do an expose! Anyone got any contacts in RTE?? Anyway, it's good to know I am not alone!!

Sizzler

Rozbeef wrote: »

Oh right, as I said never been to court before and my law classes are a distant memory...

Could anyone give advice on what to expect? And the likelyhood of the court/judge letting me explain my case?

Out of interest, what company name is on the summons? Is it eflow (betEireFlow) or is it the solictors that are getting you into court?

I'm not a solicitor so what you do is your call but if you can afford it, I would go and see a decent solictor, i.e. a clued in guy or girl who has the appetite to challenge this and not just there to take their fee. Its only a matter of time before the whole thing is challenged in court and a judge sides with the road user. Have a careful think about what you are going to say and feel free to PM me as I have noted a few "flaws" shall we say in their system.

If you can afford it I would definitely get a brief on board, if even only for a consultation.

In the interim I would also email your local TD / consumer affairs / joe duffy etc and say its a disgrace. I would be amazed if there is any other country in europe who will try and clog up the courts system by trying to ride people for €152 for what is effectively a 2km stretch of tollable road.

I would also get in touch with the CEO of eflow here in Ireland and try the NRA also, they have managed to step in and resolve boardsies queries over the last few months. Again, happy to help there on PM.

PirateShampoo wrote: »

You will probably end up with a heavly reduced fine.

The whole system is a joke. Wonder how much its costing them for all the people they are bringing to cort.

Dont be so quick to assume that, but I have yet to see any media coverage of people that have been brought to court and penalised.

It costs about €180 minimum to get someone into court so yes they are losing money on each "transaction" and thats before you consider all the other costs of pre-court debt collection! They are doing this in the vein hope that that some people will crumble and simply pay out of fear. They are willing to take the hit on the financials purely to get the "message" out there that they are hardliners and will take people to court for small debts/ Vodafone & o2 and a lot of the banks will do this on an almost daily basis just to prove a point. Stubbs Gazette will be an eye opener for some!

ImeldaD wrote: »

Have just found this board and thread and am somewhat relieved to see that so many others are in agreement with the farce that is eflow on the M50 toll bridge.

They are totally inflexible. I have just missed the payment deadline (simply forgot) and paid a toll after 8pm the next day. I have sent them loads of emails asking why they can't allow longer, say 7day
s, to allow for people crossing it going to airport and away for a mini break, say a weekend.

I can't believe there is a toll anywhere else in the world that doesn't have at least a few booths that you can pay as you cross. This surely has to be against them that they can't accommodate this.

Also disputed toll received back in July (genuine, I didn't use it). I disputed it on line and never heard another dickey bird from them so presumed it was their mistake. NOW I have received letters from their solicitors in Tralee threatening court action. To be honest I would nearly welcome a day in court to vent my frustrations at them. I know someone who rang the same solicitors when they got similar letter and they were rude, obnoxious and arrogant and wouldn't even consider negotiating lower charge than €152 fine (x 2) just to settle it. Reckon the solicitors are the last ones to talk to as they want to go to court and get more money from eflow. I really can't believe this system is being tolerated and would love someone (yes maybe Shane Ross as suggested elsewhere) to organise a class action or something. Maybe after all this Lisbon talk and the bankers talk etc. Prime Time will do an expose! Anyone got any contacts in RTE?? Anyway, it's good to know I am not alone!!

Yes it is a farce, I dont believe there is such a thing as a class action in Ireland I am afraid but I do absoloutely agree that people need to stand up and complian about this. I said earlier in the thread that Shane Ross was instrumental in getting the toll booths removed but what does he think of the shannanigans now, its pure distain for road users and it doesnt appear anybody has stood up to them....YET!

ImeldaD

What ever happened as I have just discovered this board and thread and am in the same situation now myself?

ImeldaD

Thanks Sizzler. How do I PM you.

The letter is from the solicitors in Tralee on their headed paper.

Quote from their letter ...We refer to the above and confirm we act on behalf ot he National Roads Authority and have been instructed in relation to the above outstanding amout which is due by you to our client pursuant to Section 64 of the Roads Act 1993 (as amended). We understand particulars ot eh amount outstanding (which is shown overleaf have alreadh been furnished to you, and that to date the amount due has not been paid.

The purpose of this letter is to advise tha tunless you furnish us with payment of the avove sum, our client has instructed us to issue lefal proceedings with a view towards securing Judgement. Once Judgement has been issued same may be registed in the Central Office of the Hight Court which will result in the Judgement being published in Stubbs Gazette. You should be aware that having a Judgement registerd against ou will affect your credit rating.

We would urge you to take the contents of this Toll Violation Notice extremely seriously and to discharge the above mentioned debt within a perioud of seven days from the date of this letter otherwise court proceedings will issue against you without any further notice. Payment methods to discharge the debt are described overleaf.... end quote

website to make payment is www.pierfitz.ie/payments

In effect even though this letter is from Solicitors it is really a final request for payment before legal proceedings. Typing it above, I actually only read it now in detail.

Any other advice would be much appreciated and again, how do I pm you?

Thanks

ImeldaD

Just had a thought that if all content of this tread was printed out and brought to court, it would provide great evidence in defence of us poor suckers who are being exploited.

I am not against paying a toll for using the road, and I want to make that clear, but the customer (us) is not being facilitiated and as this is a monopoly they just don't care.

What I would like to see is:

An option to pay as you cross
Longer time to pay, say 7 days (I think an awful lot of people genuinely forget to pay before 8 p.m. the next day)






With all the unemployed legal eagles out there, can someone please consider doing something about this.

Toto Wolfcastle

ImeldaD wrote: »

An option to pay as you cross

I don't think that's a good idea at all. The payment options themselves are fine but...

ImeldaD wrote: »

Longer time to pay, say 7 days (I think an awful lot of people genuinely forget to pay before 8 p.m. the next day)

I agree with this. One day is not enough. I had a video account and now have a tag so I'm fine but very occasional users might not get the chance to pay within the time allowed.

Sizzler

ImeldaD wrote: »

Thanks Sizzler. How do I PM you.

The letter is from the solicitors in Tralee on their headed paper.

Quote from their letter ...We refer to the above and confirm we act on behalf ot he National Roads Authority and have been instructed in relation to the above outstanding amout which is due by you to our client pursuant to Section 64 of the Roads Act 1993 (as amended). We understand particulars ot eh amount outstanding (which is shown overleaf have alreadh been furnished to you, and that to date the amount due has not been paid.

The purpose of this letter is to advise tha tunless you furnish us with payment of the avove sum, our client has instructed us to issue lefal proceedings with a view towards securing Judgement. Once Judgement has been issued same may be registed in the Central Office of the Hight Court which will result in the Judgement being published in Stubbs Gazette. You should be aware that having a Judgement registerd against ou will affect your credit rating.

We would urge you to take the contents of this Toll Violation Notice extremely seriously and to discharge the above mentioned debt within a perioud of seven days from the date of this letter otherwise court proceedings will issue against you without any further notice. Payment methods to discharge the debt are described overleaf.... end quote

website to make payment is www.pierfitz.ie/payments

In effect even though this letter is from Solicitors it is really a final request for payment before legal proceedings. Typing it above, I actually only read it now in detail.

Any other advice would be much appreciated and again, how do I pm you?

Thanks

PM, look at the top right hand corner of your screen under your username.

This may also be useful for you, plenty of people you can lobby here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60694397&postcount=164

2nd Row Donkey

I'm up in court on monday the 19th Oct - in 5 days time for 5 unapid tolls back in april, they are looking for €948 quid.

I dont have a tag or a video account I just paid afterwards or when I got the letter saying I owed €6.

I definetly did not get subsequent letters about €46 fines on top of the original €6 or any previous letters from the solicitors requiring a payment of €140 that some other people on here appeared to have recieved. The 1st I knew about it was the letter with the court appearance date.

Haven't got a solictor to come with me but I'll take my chances on the day.

Anyone got any advice.

P.S. .. on the chances that the Judge imposes the fine on the day - when do I have to pay it by?

I'll put it this way - I WONT have €950 with me on Monday, in fact I won't have anywhere close to that. I could but i'm intentionally not bringing any money as i want to see what happens.

So what happens then? should I bring an over night bag in case I end up in Hotel MountJoy

Seriously - if the Judge gives me the option between paying those ***** in tralee or doing time/community service/suspended sentence etc, then I'll take any one of the latter options.

mamakevf

I'm from Donegal and drove through the M50 on my way to Carlow last weekend, and this was the first I heard of these tolls, I'm a bit worried now that I will be fined, is this possible?

Seth Brundle

Why wouldn't it be?
Did you use the bridge between the N3 and N4 interchanges?

mamakevf

Came down the M1 and paid a toll there, then joined on to the M50, then seen the markings on the road saying M50 toll,
What do you think, do I have to pay?

Seth Brundle

I don't know what markings you saw but if there were lots of signs telling you how much etc. then you passed the toll and you now owe €6 and yes unless you want to feel bullied by Sue, Leggit & Run in Kerry then pay up!

mamakevf

Na, wasn't on N3 or N4, nor did I see any signs telling me of costs, just markings on the actual road and signs above the road with phone no's.
I should be OK.

Toto Wolfcastle

mamakevf wrote: »

Na, wasn't on N3 or N4, nor did I see any signs telling me of costs, just markings on the actual road and signs above the road with phone no's.
I should be OK.

Eh...sounds like you will have to pay so if you passed under the signs and saw the markings on the road.

Wait til you get the letter asking you to pay though because you will need the barcode.

mamakevf

If I have to pay then fair enough, but snaring an unwary non-regular user seems wrong.
I already paid on the M1 and drove on to the M50 on my way to the M7.
There were no warnings about this extra toll before I drove through.

Toto Wolfcastle

mamakevf wrote: »

If I have to pay then fair enough, but snaring an unwary non-regular user seems wrong.
I already paid on the M1 and drove on to the M50 on my way to the M7.
There were no warnings about this extra toll before I drove through.

There are plenty of signs though to be fair. When I used it for the first time I noticed the signs.

squod

Don't remember BetEire or whatever they're called giving people contracts to sign. Don't remember a law that says you've consented to contract just by passing a bluddy sign. If that were the case there'd be signs all over the gaff.


Weird world, try asking them for the contract they have with you.

Seth Brundle

mamakevf wrote: »

Na, wasn't on N3 or N4, nor did I see any signs telling me of costs, just markings on the actual road and signs above the road with phone no's.
I should be OK.

Given your next post, you did cross it!

mamakevf wrote: »

If I have to pay then fair enough, but snaring an unwary non-regular user seems wrong.
I already paid on the M1 and drove on to the M50 on my way to the M7.
There were no warnings about this extra toll before I drove through.

Tough titties! The M1, M4 or M7 tolls have no bearing on whether you are liable to pay for the M50 toll. If you don't like it then thank Fianna Fail!
Janey is right though - wait for the form to come back as you will need the ref number because of their daft system.

bookerboy

If you happen to have a Northern reg or any foreign reg then you don't have to pay.The toll bridge like our Government was set up only to screw the Irish.(The're both doing a good job at it)

Kotek Besar

bookerboy wrote: »

If you happen to have a Northern reg or any foreign reg then you don't have to pay.The toll bridge like our Government was set up only to screw the Irish.(The're both doing a good job at it)

Not true. EPC PLC will have you if you've a non-Irish reg.

Sizzler

benifa wrote: »

Not true. EPC PLC will have you if you've a non-Irish reg.

LOB tbh. I know a Polish lad who has been here with his A4 for 2 years now and uses the M50 daily and he has never been seen a sniff of a letter back where the car is registered.

You have to laugh!

Sizzler

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

I'm up in court on monday the 19th Oct - in 5 days time for 5 unapid tolls back in april, they are looking for €948 quid.

I dont have a tag or a video account I just paid afterwards or when I got the letter saying I owed €6.

I definetly did not get subsequent letters about €46 fines on top of the original €6 or any previous letters from the solicitors requiring a payment of €140 that some other people on here appeared to have recieved. The 1st I knew about it was the letter with the court appearance date.

Haven't got a solictor to come with me but I'll take my chances on the day.

Anyone got any advice.

P.S. .. on the chances that the Judge imposes the fine on the day - when do I have to pay it by?

I'll put it this way - I WONT have €950 with me on Monday, in fact I won't have anywhere close to that. I could but i'm intentionally not bringing any money as i want to see what happens.

So what happens then? should I bring an over night bag in case I end up in Hotel MountJoy

Seriously - if the Judge gives me the option between paying those ***** in tralee or doing time/community service/suspended sentence etc, then I'll take any one of the latter options.

So you did actually pay the tolls, you just didnt pay the "fines" they levied, is that correct?

I dont think the judge can impose a custodial sentance for non-payment of a fine, especially if you havent got the money ! Why dont you phone / email / fax the clowns in Kerry today and tell them you will repay them €2 a week. When say no, you can tell the judge on Monday that you made an effort to repay the debt and they refused! But if you did pay the tolls originally and this is as a result of an admin error on their part then you would rightly stand your ground and not be bullied for the money!

I would recommend you call the citizens advice bureau today though to see whats what so you are some way prepared.

Our man in Havana

benifa wrote: »

Not true. EPC PLC will have you if you've a non-Irish reg.

They can be safely ignored and binned.

Kotek Besar

Bond-007 wrote: »

They can be safely ignored and binned.

So I've read. I still paid them all of £37 though a few months back. Probably could have ignored the letters, like you and others have said. But hey, one less thing to be worried about I guess.

BrianD3

The system is indeed a farce. I have only used the bridge about 15 times since eflow was introduced and already there have been some mistakes and discrepancies. I don't have a tag, I just pay per journey. Once I crossed the bridge and didn't pay by 8 pm the next day and was waiting for the STR notice. Didn't come so I rang them. Was told the crossing was recorded but I wasn't sent an STR for it because the account had been in credit. In other words, I had either paid twice for a previous crossing (not likely) or else I had paid for a previous crossing that their camera had failed to pick up.

If you go onto their website and say that you made 50 crossings when they have no record of them, I take it their system will just accept the payment and not give an error

On another occasion I made two crossings in a day and was expecting two STRs (or two crossings listed on the one STR letter, not sure how it works) but only one crossing was recorded. Paid for that crossing, rang them up about the other one, no record of it. Based on what I've read about their incompetence I wouldn't be surprised for that missing crossing to magically appear in a few months time by which time they'll want 100 quid or whatever for it.

Our man in Havana

I read somewhere they have something like 20,000 numberplate misreads per day.