Dublin Marathon 2008 Thread

Peckham

Given that anyone aiming for Dublin in October should be in or around the start of their training schedule, I thought it might be interesting to have a thread where we can all check-in/moan/talk about progress, seek advice, or to keep up each other's motivation when the schedule starts to become a pain in the a$$ and there is still weeks to go until the marathon.

I'm at the end of week 1 of Pfitzinger 18 week, <55 miles per week. Heading out for a 12 mile run now...feeling good about it all, but realising I need some new runners.

copacetic

not a bad idea, followed the runnersworld thread in 05. I haven't decided whether to run yet though, going to ease into a program and see how I'm feeling this year. Certainly plan to do the adidas race series in the park

SUNGOD

im on week 4 of brendan o shea's 21 week maratnon programme to finish between 2:30 and 3:00 , im aiming for 2:59:59. i used the hal higdon programmes for the 2 other marathons ive run and i wanted a change and i picked this programme because of the hagher amount of 20 mile or upwards runs in it something i felt i needed and was lacking in the higdon programmes. anyway i was out earlier for a 10 mile run and tommorrow morning its 14 . all is well at the moment and i still have that starting a new programme excitement which i plan on enjoying before it wears off.
good idea for this as id like to see how everyone else is training/preparing/copeing

SUNGOD

im on week 4 of brendan o shea's 21 week maratnon programme to finish between 2:30 and 3:00 , im aiming for 2:59:59. i used the hal higdon programmes for the 2 other marathons ive run and i wanted a change and i picked this programme because of the hagher amount of 20 mile or upwards runs in it something i felt i needed and was lacking in the higdon programmes. anyway i was out earlier for a 10 mile run and tommorrow morning its 14 . all is well at the moment and i still have that starting a new programme excitement which i plan on enjoying before it wears off.
good idea for this as id like to see how everyone else is training/preparing/copeing

ZiggyStardust

Saw Brendan O'Shea's schedule in the Irish runner and thought there was no taper at all. The last 4 Sundays you are running 22, 22, 20 & 20. Even the next schedule down for 3:00 - 4:15 you are running 20, 20, 18 & 18.
Does anyone else think this is too much running the weeks before a marathon. My last 4 weeks consist of 14, 22, 12 & a mere 8 miles the week before. Before that I'll have done 1 more 22 and 3 20 mile runs.
I guess as the Irish runner says, it is tried and trusted. I just thought tapering is very important. No?
Good luck with the training.

ZiggyStardust

Saw Brendan O'Shea's schedule in the Irish runner and thought there was no taper at all. The last 4 Sundays you are running 22, 22, 20 & 20. Even the next schedule down for 3:00 - 4:15 you are running 20, 20, 18 & 18.
Does anyone else think this is too much running the weeks before a marathon. My last 4 weeks consist of 14, 22, 12 & a mere 8 miles the week before. Before that I'll have done 1 more 22 and 3 20 mile runs.
I guess as the Irish runner says, it is tried and trusted. I just thought tapering is very important. No?
Good luck with the training.

Peckham

I agree. Four runs of 20+ in the four weeks before the marathon seems to be asking for tired legs on the day itself. Will be interested to see how it works out, as I also think the plan I'm using is a little light on the 20 milers - 3x20 milers, and nothing over 20 miles. It worked for me last year, and I finished strong, however, I plan on tweaking a little and doing maybe 1 or 2 in excess of 20.

Peckham

I agree. Four runs of 20+ in the four weeks before the marathon seems to be asking for tired legs on the day itself. Will be interested to see how it works out, as I also think the plan I'm using is a little light on the 20 milers - 3x20 milers, and nothing over 20 miles. It worked for me last year, and I finished strong, however, I plan on tweaking a little and doing maybe 1 or 2 in excess of 20.

SUNGOD

just because you pick a plan doesnt mean your married to it, i will follow the plan but if i feel im getting burnt out i will change it to suit my needs and i can deffinitely see myself changeing the 2 sundays prior to the marathon to maybe a 16 and 10 respectively before the marathon. for me i look at marathon programmes as a guide and if i can follow them and they suit where i am in my training and my lifestyle then great and if not well what harm

SUNGOD

just because you pick a plan doesnt mean your married to it, i will follow the plan but if i feel im getting burnt out i will change it to suit my needs and i can deffinitely see myself changeing the 2 sundays prior to the marathon to maybe a 16 and 10 respectively before the marathon. for me i look at marathon programmes as a guide and if i can follow them and they suit where i am in my training and my lifestyle then great and if not well what harm

TheRoadRunner

ZiggyStardust wrote: »

Saw Brendan O'Shea's schedule in the Irish runner and thought there was no taper at all. The last 4 Sundays you are running 22, 22, 20 & 20. Even the next schedule down for 3:00 - 4:15 you are running 20, 20, 18 & 18.
Does anyone else think this is too much running the weeks before a marathon.

yeah I was looking at that plan myself and I think it's a bit OTT in places. Two 10/12 mile fartleks a week seems absolutely crazy. I don't know what a fartlek is to Mr O'Shea but that one of those sessions could wreck me for the week. As an above poster says a bit of mixing and matching is required for all plans.

Regarding my daily slog. Just did 6 myself today as I had a feed of beer last night , got 14 in yesterday though. In fact some of the above threads guilted me into getting off my couch and out the door this evening.

TheRoadRunner

ZiggyStardust wrote: »

Saw Brendan O'Shea's schedule in the Irish runner and thought there was no taper at all. The last 4 Sundays you are running 22, 22, 20 & 20. Even the next schedule down for 3:00 - 4:15 you are running 20, 20, 18 & 18.
Does anyone else think this is too much running the weeks before a marathon.

yeah I was looking at that plan myself and I think it's a bit OTT in places. Two 10/12 mile fartleks a week seems absolutely crazy. I don't know what a fartlek is to Mr O'Shea but that one of those sessions could wreck me for the week. As an above poster says a bit of mixing and matching is required for all plans.

Regarding my daily slog. Just did 6 myself today as I had a feed of beer last night , got 14 in yesterday though. In fact some of the above threads guilted me into getting off my couch and out the door this evening.

Racing Flat

The Brendan O'Shea programme is tough but it will have you incredibly strong. One problem is that 2.30 to 3.00 is too wide and varying a range. As in 3 hours is almost 7min mile pace while 2.30 is under 6min mile pace. The quality of runner running 2.30 will be a different beast to the 3 hour man. So the 2.30 runner might cope much better on this programme than a 3.00 runner. His programmes are always much the same, but change slightly year by year. I followed it religiously for my first marathon a few years ago and found the marathon quite easy. However, the last 20mile run was 3 weeks before if I remember rightly. I would definitely recommend 3 weeks before for the last long run. Maybe 13-16 2 weeks before and 8-10 the week before. The programme was definitely a bit eaiser the year I did it. More or less -

Mon - 6-8
Tues - 8-10
Wed - 6-8
Thurs - 8-10
Fri - Rest
Sat - 10
Sun - About 6 20's and 4 22's

with occasional speedwork on the Tuesday or Thursday, but nothing over the top, concentrating more on speed endurance than raw speed.

Off topic, but Jay Z doing Sunday Bloody Sunday - class

Racing Flat

The Brendan O'Shea programme is tough but it will have you incredibly strong. One problem is that 2.30 to 3.00 is too wide and varying a range. As in 3 hours is almost 7min mile pace while 2.30 is under 6min mile pace. The quality of runner running 2.30 will be a different beast to the 3 hour man. So the 2.30 runner might cope much better on this programme than a 3.00 runner. His programmes are always much the same, but change slightly year by year. I followed it religiously for my first marathon a few years ago and found the marathon quite easy. However, the last 20mile run was 3 weeks before if I remember rightly. I would definitely recommend 3 weeks before for the last long run. Maybe 13-16 2 weeks before and 8-10 the week before. The programme was definitely a bit eaiser the year I did it. More or less -

Mon - 6-8
Tues - 8-10
Wed - 6-8
Thurs - 8-10
Fri - Rest
Sat - 10
Sun - About 6 20's and 4 22's

with occasional speedwork on the Tuesday or Thursday, but nothing over the top, concentrating more on speed endurance than raw speed.

Off topic, but Jay Z doing Sunday Bloody Sunday - class

TheRoadRunner

got 10 in today. Was feeling guilty after my night on the beer on Friday so I put the boot down after a couple of miles. Felt great and was pleasantly surprised with my time

TheRoadRunner

got 10 in today. Was feeling guilty after my night on the beer on Friday so I put the boot down after a couple of miles. Felt great and was pleasantly surprised with my time

Krusty_Clown

Hi there, just wondering if any of your programs feature hill-work? I am loosely following Hal Higdon's Intermediate II (mixed in with some IMRA races mid-week). My long runs are 20 miles, and my shorter long runs tend to be 13-15 miles with around 3 large hills 100-150 metres climbs.

I'm just wondering if I am benefitting from these hill runs (given that they're not prescribed in the programs), or should I consider dropping them for flatter (less interesting) runs?

Here's an example of today's run:

By the way, I'm preparing for Longford, but hope to do Dublin also, if I'm sufficiently recovered, and can get up to speed.

Krusty_Clown

Hi there, just wondering if any of your programs feature hill-work? I am loosely following Hal Higdon's Intermediate II (mixed in with some IMRA races mid-week). My long runs are 20 miles, and my shorter long runs tend to be 13-15 miles with around 3 large hills 100-150 metres climbs.

I'm just wondering if I am benefitting from these hill runs (given that they're not prescribed in the programs), or should I consider dropping them for flatter (less interesting) runs?

Here's an example of today's run:

By the way, I'm preparing for Longford, but hope to do Dublin also, if I'm sufficiently recovered, and can get up to speed.

ZiggyStardust

Hi Krusty,
I was going to post a thread asking what type of hill work people are doing. To answer your question, I reckon you would benefit from hills as they would strengthen your legs even if Longford is pretty flat. I'm doing Berlin and I think thats as flat as you can get, but wanted to introduce hills for strength.
What do other people do for hills. I do most of my runs in the Phoenix Park and was going to go to the hill near the magazine and do a few reps of that. It's about 80m, so was thinking maybe X6 or X8?

ZiggyStardust

Hi Krusty,
I was going to post a thread asking what type of hill work people are doing. To answer your question, I reckon you would benefit from hills as they would strengthen your legs even if Longford is pretty flat. I'm doing Berlin and I think thats as flat as you can get, but wanted to introduce hills for strength.
What do other people do for hills. I do most of my runs in the Phoenix Park and was going to go to the hill near the magazine and do a few reps of that. It's about 80m, so was thinking maybe X6 or X8?

TheRoadRunner

Hi

I think some hill work is important. When I ran my marathon pb I was incorporating some tough hills into my long run. I will be doing this again this year. There are a couple of inclines around the 20 mile mark in Dublin that shouldn't be underestimated (as I did last year).

ZiggyStardust wrote: »

What do other people do for hills. I do most of my runs in the Phoenix Park and was going to go to the hill near the magazine and do a few reps of that. It's about 80m, so was thinking maybe X6 or X8?

I don't know if these type of hills are optimum for marathon training but I could be wrong. I know the hill you are talking about and I think what you are planning on doing might be more suited to an event where explosive speed is important (1500 downwards). At the same time I don't think they would be a total waste of time. I'd be interested to hear other peoples opinion on this

In my opinion a better hill to do would be the Khyber pass, just beside the magazine hill. Its 800 metres long bollard to bollard. Running up and jogging back 4 or 5 times is a great session. Its a tough little cookie and the slow build up of lactic and aerobic stress is great training for the last 6 miles of the marathon when strength is required.

TheRoadRunner

Hi

I think some hill work is important. When I ran my marathon pb I was incorporating some tough hills into my long run. I will be doing this again this year. There are a couple of inclines around the 20 mile mark in Dublin that shouldn't be underestimated (as I did last year).

ZiggyStardust wrote: »

What do other people do for hills. I do most of my runs in the Phoenix Park and was going to go to the hill near the magazine and do a few reps of that. It's about 80m, so was thinking maybe X6 or X8?

I don't know if these type of hills are optimum for marathon training but I could be wrong. I know the hill you are talking about and I think what you are planning on doing might be more suited to an event where explosive speed is important (1500 downwards). At the same time I don't think they would be a total waste of time. I'd be interested to hear other peoples opinion on this

In my opinion a better hill to do would be the Khyber pass, just beside the magazine hill. Its 800 metres long bollard to bollard. Running up and jogging back 4 or 5 times is a great session. Its a tough little cookie and the slow build up of lactic and aerobic stress is great training for the last 6 miles of the marathon when strength is required.

ZiggyStardust

Thanks for that roadrunner. The Kybher pass is exactly what i'm looking for. Never even thought about it. The schedule I was following requires a hill of 400m but for the life of me couldn't think of one. Will be heading there Wednesday evening.

ZiggyStardust

Thanks for that roadrunner. The Kybher pass is exactly what i'm looking for. Never even thought about it. The schedule I was following requires a hill of 400m but for the life of me couldn't think of one. Will be heading there Wednesday evening.

MarieC

Hi there,

Yes I started my 18week training plan last week for Dublin marathon. I had been training earlier this year for Connemara but had to pull put half way through training with a suspect stress fracture. I am not a fast runner and my goal is just under 5hrs for Dublin. Im trying to balance my training this time around to build strength. So Im only going for a max of 3 runs a week, with the longer one at the weekend, 2-3 swimming or aqua jogging sessions during the week for non-impact training and 2 gym sessions for core strengthening.

I know nothing will replace the miles on the road, but does this sound ok for a marathon plan? I really really dont want to get injured again and not be able to run. Even with 10k runs I can still feel a decent niggle down along my shin bone and a nice bump where the imjury was 6 months ago...So do I change my running strategy, go to preventative physio or just stick with my exercises, build up my core strength and hope for the best??

MarieC

Hi there,

Yes I started my 18week training plan last week for Dublin marathon. I had been training earlier this year for Connemara but had to pull put half way through training with a suspect stress fracture. I am not a fast runner and my goal is just under 5hrs for Dublin. Im trying to balance my training this time around to build strength. So Im only going for a max of 3 runs a week, with the longer one at the weekend, 2-3 swimming or aqua jogging sessions during the week for non-impact training and 2 gym sessions for core strengthening.

I know nothing will replace the miles on the road, but does this sound ok for a marathon plan? I really really dont want to get injured again and not be able to run. Even with 10k runs I can still feel a decent niggle down along my shin bone and a nice bump where the imjury was 6 months ago...So do I change my running strategy, go to preventative physio or just stick with my exercises, build up my core strength and hope for the best??

hawkwing

"In my opinion a better hill to do would be the Khyber pass, just beside the magazine hill. Its 800 metres long bollard to bollard."

From Google earth this appears to be 0.92k, using the ruler and path tool to where the white bars are in the ground--maybe this is not accurate?

hawkwing

"In my opinion a better hill to do would be the Khyber pass, just beside the magazine hill. Its 800 metres long bollard to bollard."

From Google earth this appears to be 0.92k, using the ruler and path tool to where the white bars are in the ground--maybe this is not accurate?

greenplain

hello everyone,

I am new to the boards. Just starting my second week of a 18 week plan for the Dublin marathon. I wanted to do it last year but i over trained and damaged my knee. So i am taking it slow this time around and build it up to stay injury free. I'll have to cut down on the beer though!

greenplain

hello everyone,

I am new to the boards. Just starting my second week of a 18 week plan for the Dublin marathon. I wanted to do it last year but i over trained and damaged my knee. So i am taking it slow this time around and build it up to stay injury free. I'll have to cut down on the beer though!

TheRoadRunner

hawkwing wrote: »

"In my opinion a better hill to do would be the Khyber pass, just beside the magazine hill. Its 800 metres long bollard to bollard."

From Google earth this appears to be 0.92k, using the ruler and path tool to where the white bars are in the ground--maybe this is not accurate?

are the white bars the bollards ? I always thought the full length of the Khyber was just under 1k and would be (pleasantly) surprised if the bollard to bollard measurement was much over 800 metres. I have a metre wheel so I'll look into this over the coming weeks.

TheRoadRunner

hawkwing wrote: »

"In my opinion a better hill to do would be the Khyber pass, just beside the magazine hill. Its 800 metres long bollard to bollard."

From Google earth this appears to be 0.92k, using the ruler and path tool to where the white bars are in the ground--maybe this is not accurate?

are the white bars the bollards ? I always thought the full length of the Khyber was just under 1k and would be (pleasantly) surprised if the bollard to bollard measurement was much over 800 metres. I have a metre wheel so I'll look into this over the coming weeks.

hawkwing

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

are the white bars the bollards ? I always thought the full length of the Khyber was just under 1k and would be (pleasantly) surprised if the bollard to bollard measurement was much over 800 metres. I have a metre wheel so I'll look into this over the coming weeks.

yep,the metal bars coming up from the ground,i do this section as part of a 2.5m loop 3-4 days every week and hope it is accurate enough to measure with google earth but would like to know if this tool is correct or not.

hawkwing

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

are the white bars the bollards ? I always thought the full length of the Khyber was just under 1k and would be (pleasantly) surprised if the bollard to bollard measurement was much over 800 metres. I have a metre wheel so I'll look into this over the coming weeks.

yep,the metal bars coming up from the ground,i do this section as part of a 2.5m loop 3-4 days every week and hope it is accurate enough to measure with google earth but would like to know if this tool is correct or not.

Roddy23

Using map my run - it works out about .74miles.

I'd be in the same boat as you greenplain. I've been running (plodding away) for over a year now, and am up to about week 12 on Hal Higdon's 30 week plan. I can run about 7miles, with a bit of stiffness after, but I just want to complete the course in and around 4.5hours come October.

Roddy23

Using map my run - it works out about .74miles.

I'd be in the same boat as you greenplain. I've been running (plodding away) for over a year now, and am up to about week 12 on Hal Higdon's 30 week plan. I can run about 7miles, with a bit of stiffness after, but I just want to complete the course in and around 4.5hours come October.

Peckham

MarieC wrote: »

So Im only going for a max of 3 runs a week, with the longer one at the weekend, 2-3 swimming or aqua jogging sessions during the week for non-impact training and 2 gym sessions for core strengthening.

I know nothing will replace the miles on the road, but does this sound ok for a marathon plan?

For the moment that sounds like plenty, although it depends on how long your runs are at the moment. Roughly how many miles do you do on the road per week, and how long is your long run? How do you see this increasing over the next few weeks/months?

As time goes on, it may be worth cutting back on some of the gym sessions and replacing them with road runs, but listen to your body especially seeing as you've had a setback before.

Peckham

MarieC wrote: »

So Im only going for a max of 3 runs a week, with the longer one at the weekend, 2-3 swimming or aqua jogging sessions during the week for non-impact training and 2 gym sessions for core strengthening.

I know nothing will replace the miles on the road, but does this sound ok for a marathon plan?

For the moment that sounds like plenty, although it depends on how long your runs are at the moment. Roughly how many miles do you do on the road per week, and how long is your long run? How do you see this increasing over the next few weeks/months?

As time goes on, it may be worth cutting back on some of the gym sessions and replacing them with road runs, but listen to your body especially seeing as you've had a setback before.

MarieC

Thanks Peckham.

I think the training program Im following is Hal Higdon Novice 1 marathon plan. his wk 1 mileage is 15miles and my plan got me to 13.4 last week. so Id a 3.2, 6.2 and 4miler. All of my runs are on the road.

I agree that i hopefully can ween off or at least reduce the gym sessions as time goes on and increase the milegage. But eitherway, i hope to be pretty much up to the expected mileage per week. I wont know until I try how the leg will behave but here's hoping!! Even though Im a slow runner the disappointment of not being able do a run Id trained for was not pleasant to say the least.

MarieC

Thanks Peckham.

I think the training program Im following is Hal Higdon Novice 1 marathon plan. his wk 1 mileage is 15miles and my plan got me to 13.4 last week. so Id a 3.2, 6.2 and 4miler. All of my runs are on the road.

I agree that i hopefully can ween off or at least reduce the gym sessions as time goes on and increase the milegage. But eitherway, i hope to be pretty much up to the expected mileage per week. I wont know until I try how the leg will behave but here's hoping!! Even though Im a slow runner the disappointment of not being able do a run Id trained for was not pleasant to say the least.

greenplain

just wanted to get some opinions...i am a huge asics fan have the kayano 13 . i need a new pair will i get the kayanos 14 or is there other good makes

greenplain

just wanted to get some opinions...i am a huge asics fan have the kayano 13 . i need a new pair will i get the kayanos 14 or is there other good makes

Peckham

I'm a big fan of the Hal Higdon novice plans, so would have every faith in the one you are following. If you stick to it, then I would expect you'll be fine. One piece of advice though would be that if you are skipping runs from the plan to supplement them with gym sessions, then make sure it is not the long run you are skipping - as I'm sure you know, this is undoubtedly the most important element in the training plan, particularly for first-timers.

Peckham

I'm a big fan of the Hal Higdon novice plans, so would have every faith in the one you are following. If you stick to it, then I would expect you'll be fine. One piece of advice though would be that if you are skipping runs from the plan to supplement them with gym sessions, then make sure it is not the long run you are skipping - as I'm sure you know, this is undoubtedly the most important element in the training plan, particularly for first-timers.

TheRoadRunner

greenplain wrote: »

just wanted to get some opinions...i am a huge asics fan have the kayano 13 . i need a new pair will i get the kayanos 14 or is there other good makes

Check out the athletics forum. There has been a couple of lively debates regarding shoes, gait analysis etc

TheRoadRunner

greenplain wrote: »

just wanted to get some opinions...i am a huge asics fan have the kayano 13 . i need a new pair will i get the kayanos 14 or is there other good makes

Check out the athletics forum. There has been a couple of lively debates regarding shoes, gait analysis etc

Stupid_Private

greenplain wrote: »

just wanted to get some opinions...i am a huge asics fan have the kayano 13 . i need a new pair will i get the kayanos 14 or is there other good makes

If Kayanos are working for you and you're getting no injuries I'd say stick with them. If you're having any problems a shop that gives gait analysis will be able to point you in the right direction for a shoe that works for you.

Stupid_Private

greenplain wrote: »

just wanted to get some opinions...i am a huge asics fan have the kayano 13 . i need a new pair will i get the kayanos 14 or is there other good makes

If Kayanos are working for you and you're getting no injuries I'd say stick with them. If you're having any problems a shop that gives gait analysis will be able to point you in the right direction for a shoe that works for you.

MarieC

of course yeah, will be keeping the long weekend run in and it is a mid-week run that is being cut at the moment. Have only done 1 previous marathon, Dublin 2008 and that took me 5hrs 04min so 4:59:59 is my goal!

MarieC

of course yeah, will be keeping the long weekend run in and it is a mid-week run that is being cut at the moment. Have only done 1 previous marathon, Dublin 2008 and that took me 5hrs 04min so 4:59:59 is my goal!

Racing Flat

hawkwing wrote: »

yep,the metal bars coming up from the ground,i do this section as part of a 2.5m loop 3-4 days every week and hope it is accurate enough to measure with google earth but would like to know if this tool is correct or not.

According to my Garmin it's 900m from white bollards at bottom to bollards at top IIRC. 4 reps at about 3.20 each was a horrible session!