General Thread

Gee-22

Hearts and minds will be discussing 50:50 tonight with RC officers (bbc1 @23:30). It might be of interest.

gigity gigity

Will be recording that its well past my bedtime.

Shield

Gee-22 wrote: »

Hearts and minds will be discussing 50:50 tonight with RC officers (bbc1 @23:30). It might be of interest.

I thought there were actually going to be RC officers on it. What a waste of broadcasting time. They might as well have sat there and talked about the weather for what that 'discussion' achieved.

Goonerdee

psni wrote: »

I thought there were actually going to be RC officers on it. What a waste of broadcasting time. They might as well have sat there and talked about the weather for what that 'discussion' achieved.

Looks like if you wanna know what RC officers are saying you have to buy that woman's book.

Gee-22

I said it might be of interest, but it wasn't.

They just brushed over a very important topic/decision.

Shield

Gee-22 wrote: »

They just brushed over a very important topic/decision.

Agreed. Although given they amount of time they allocated it, they could do little more than dance around the salient points.

wanadrum

Would you waste money on the womans book after hearing what she said on the tv last night? I could have questioned her better than Noel Thompson when she tried to make out that 50:50 was not discriminatoy and that 'standards' weren't being dropped, I could have referred her to some FOI request statistics......

I thought the presbyterian lady spoke very well though.

Dietcoke1

wanadrum wrote: »

Would you waste money on the womans book after hearing what she said on the tv last night? I could have questioned her better than Noel Thompson when she tried to make out that 50:50 was not discriminatoy and that 'standards' weren't being dropped, I could have referred her to some FOI request statistics......

I thought the presbyterian lady spoke very well though.

Rubbish! Where is the evidence to suggest that standards are being dropped???

A person with a merit score of under 100 is not neccessarily going to be a better police officer than someone with a 600+ score because he/she has scored slightly higher in an unrealistic test.

Anyone who makes it to the merit pool has the ability to do the job, end of story! This is where discrimination will take place, yes this may be wrong but in my opinion standards are by no way being dropped.

Goonerdee

Dietcoke1 wrote: »

Rubbish! Where is the evidence to suggest that standards are being dropped???

A person with a merit score of under 100 is not neccessarily going to be a better police officer than someone with a 600+ score because he/she has scored slightly higher in an unrealistic test.

Anyone who makes it to the merit pool has the ability to do the job, end of story! This is where discrimination will take place, yes this may be wrong but in my opinion standards are by no way being dropped.

Standards haven't been dropped I agree but it grates me to think that I only had a 30% chance of getting into the police if I passed all my phases because of my religion, yet if I had been the other religion I would have had a 100% chance.

I think it has run it's course, 10 years and it has had little effect. I know my chances are even slimmer now of getting into the police but at least I know my religion will no longer be a barrier.

wanadrum

Well Dietcoke1 I completely agree that just because someone scores higher in the selection process does not mean they will be the better officer.

Having said that, the process (however inept it may me) places candidate in order of merit as best it can, though I think there shoould me much more in the process for example an interview.

When candidates with a higher merit score are passed over for someone with a lower score - standards have been reduced n matter what way you slice it.

It is clear that the pass mark for each part of the selection process is set and sometimes changed to ensure a suitable number of RCs get into the merit pool - this inherently meand the entrance standard is being reduced.

Loading the system to get people into the 'merit' pool and then saying well eeryone has to reach that level to be considered is a poor way of trying to justify the discrimination.

How can you not accept this? Look at the FOI request regarding AC scores for people who have been appointed in 2009:

Average AC score: NRC 58 RC 49
Lowest AC score: NRC 54 RC 37

Are you seriously asking us to believe that entrance standards are not being compromised in order to apply 50:50 recruitment?

Quite clearly the standards have dropped - if appointments were made without 50:50 the overall average and lowest score of recruits appointed would be higher.

In no way am I saying that those who have been appointed (regardless of score) are incapable of the job.

I think the selection process should be more effective at selecting the best person for the job meaning that merit place/score more accurately reflects ones ability to be a good police officer, but the fact that it may not do that now is a flaw in the selection process rather than evidence that standards are not lowered to accomodate 50:50 appointments.

By the way - on the radio this morning there were a couple of RC officers now retired talking about their experience of the RUC and PSNI, this was much more interesting than the tv show last night.

Shield

Lads we have a thread where you can vent your spleen about 50/50 here and it's a One Post Per Person, so say your piece and leave it at that.

We can go around and around in circles with 50/50 and we'd get nowhere, so let's leave the politics for the Politics forum, and say your piece on 50/50 on the above thread if you wish, if you haven't already done so.

wanadrum

I've already posted there, sorry for posting in this thread, but it just seemed to flow naturally from the post about hearts and minds.

So when do you reckon we will get our Dear John's?

It seems a bit unfair to leave those who have had least communication throughout the process waiting much longer as they have told people that all appointments have been made.

Shield

I can't be sure, but since around 5 people didn't show up for SID, I *think* they might see if they can backfill those places rather than let them go to waste. Someone should ring recruitment and ask if those places will be filled - who knows, you might even nab a place for yourself! Then you'll all know for sure.

I imagine once the March intake starts, the Dear John letters will be sent out.

weepete

psni wrote: »

I can't be sure, but since around 5 people didn't show up for SID, I *think* they might see if they can backfill those places rather than let them go to waste. Someone should ring recruitment and ask if those places will be filled - who knows, you might even nab a place for yourself! Then you'll all know for sure.

I imagine once the March intake starts, the Dear John letters will be sent out.

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!????????

After all this you are tellin me five people didn't turn up for the Induction Day!
That just grinds my gears and heres us hopefulls chompin at the bit to get to garnerville.

wanadrum

I wish!!

I have not received vetting forms or had a medical so I don't think I could wangle a place.

I really find it difficult to comprehend why anyone would say they will take the job and then not show up - I would bend over backwards to get a place - I'd even work for minimum wage! It irritates me to see places wasted.

weepete

wanadrum wrote: »

I wish!!

I have not received vetting forms or had a medical so I don't think I could wangle a place.

I really find it difficult to comprehend why anyone would say they will take the job and then not show up - I would bend over backwards to get a place - I'd even work for minimum wage! It irritates me to see places wasted.

I'm in the same boat buddy, waiting/ hoping for a thick envelope full of vetting forms to land on my door mat

Shield

weepete wrote: »

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!????????

Get ready for some more gear grinding:

Some people leave on Day 1. In fact, it's almost guaranteed that at least one person will walk before the first day is over in every single intake - and that place is dead for the entire intake. It can't be backfilled, and that person has wasted thousands of pounds of taxpayer's money getting them there.

In fact, there is a person who posts on here from time to time who did just that. If he ever volunteers his identity again, he might wish to remind us all why he walked after going through everything, including the insane wait.

1967J

weepete wrote: »

I'm in the same boat buddy, waiting/ hoping for a thick envelope full of vetting forms to land on my door mat

I'm in a different boat passed vetting and medical with a merit of under 250 - just waiting on a call to ask me to start (oh how I wish)

thebakerboy

Guys/girls, unless you already had your vetting forms you probably won't get them. I got told by vetting that mine hasn't been looked at and they have had the forms back since round August time. From the tone of the email, they probably won't even be looking at mine as it isn't on a priority list.

0607

psni wrote: »

In fact, there is a person who posts on here from time to time who did just that. If he ever volunteers his identity again, he might wish to remind us all why he walked after going through everything, including the insane wait.

Well, I suffer from depression and somewhat of a compulsive dissorder. At the time I got in, I had lost weight, self esteem and confidence - this is all self diagnosed, because If i go near a doctor I'd have never got in, in the first place.
My reason to leave on day one was because of overwhelming personal feelings deep down as the day rolled on. Having never experienced being away from home for more than 2 nights... having never went to university or lived with other people in shared accomodation (other than my family) - faced with a mountain of books... all the little things of day to day living worried me and then the responsibility, pressure and seriousness of the job became all too real. I didnt think it through either, I just stood up and walked over to the drill staff and told him I think i had made a mistake.

Looking back, I could have bulldozed through it, but I did'nt give myself a chance...and i never once thought of the consequences of leaving. I was sad to leave, truthfully shed a tear as I drove out of the gates after my leaving interview - upset at myself for not being able to do it, not being able to do what so many others find so easy.
I was ashamed, and stayed away from people afterwards. I still dont hang about with anyone today. I alienated myself from them.

Did I 'lie' to get in? I dont think so. I just refused to accept I had a problem, and thought I'd get through it. I thought the training would actually help me. It probably would have, but like I said, I felt I couldnt go through with it right from the start. Thats when i finally accepted my problems...So for the past 4 years I've had to build myself back up. Still without any help, I feel I've come a long way and it has made me stronger, and would be more than ready for the next time

Delancey

I too thought the discussion on Hearts and Minds was pretty poor and the '' views of RC officers '' being expressed second hand was a disappointment.

As for people failing to show up for induction or leaving in the first week I firmly believe an interview would cut down on these.

weepete

So let me get this right, the policing board have been after more funding and officers, they get some where in the region of 240 million for the next 4 years but (a) are not recruiting in 2011 and (b) are ditchin the 500 plus pool of candidates they already have!

I tell ya the i'd love to be at the christmas do this year by the looks of it they've got some budget for it, sorry if that sets a cat amoung the pigeons but have they not requested, and recieved this money for more resources and officers to combat the dissident threat? And surely a money saving move would be to crack on with recruitment from the pool they have sitting on someone's desk, spend £25.68 calling these people up and offering them a job.

But here's another thought with 50/50 ending and pattons reform would the job be open to officers from other forces to transfer in, maybe they want a bunch of unbaised bobbies from england, who from what they see on tv think we all are drug dealing (paddy maguire in shameless) gun toting bomb making (the news cause they only here about the bad stuff) cousin marrying (my big fat gypsy wedding) yokles!

Gee-22

1967J wrote: »

I'm in a different boat passed vetting and medical with a merit of under 250 - just waiting on a call to ask me to start (oh how I wish)

You and me both. Fingers crossed. Lets hope a right few dont turn up for 1st day of school

Gee-22

0607 wrote: »

Well, I suffer from depression and somewhat of a compulsive dissorder. At the time I got in, I had lost weight, self esteem and confidence - this is all self diagnosed, because If i go near a doctor I'd have never got in, in the first place.
My reason to leave on day one was because of overwhelming personal feelings deep down as the day rolled on. Having never experienced being away from home for more than 2 nights... having never went to university or lived with other people in shared accomodation (other than my family) - faced with a mountain of books... all the little things of day to day living worried me and then the responsibility, pressure and seriousness of the job became all too real. I didnt think it through either, I just stood up and walked over to the drill staff and told him I think i had made a mistake.

Looking back, I could have bulldozed through it, but I did'nt give myself a chance...and i never once thought of the consequences of leaving. I was sad to leave, truthfully shed a tear as I drove out of the gates after my leaving interview - upset at myself for not being able to do it, not being able to do what so many others find so easy.
I was ashamed, and stayed away from people afterwards. I still dont hang about with anyone today. I alienated myself from them.

Did I 'lie' to get in? I dont think so. I just refused to accept I had a problem, and thought I'd get through it. I thought the training would actually help me. It probably would have, but like I said, I felt I couldnt go through with it right from the start. Thats when i finally accepted my problems...So for the past 4 years I've had to build myself back up. Still without any help, I feel I've come a long way and it has made me stronger, and would be more than ready for the next time

Although i fully understand why you did what you did and how you felt, i personally dont think you deserve another shot when there are so many of us still waiting on our chance.

Shield

0607 wrote: »

this is all self diagnosed, because If i go near a doctor I'd have never got in, in the first place.

I'm afraid I'd have to disagree with you there, and draw your attention to the medical forms you filled in. As long as you managed and treated your depression in accordance with medical advice and prescribed medication (if any), it would not have affected your chances of success.

I work with people who suffered from depression before they joined, and they declared it openly and honestly. The doctor certified that all symptoms and signs had abated and it didn't affect their application in any way.

Now it would be very different if you went into a school with a gun or something drastic, but straightforward depression that affects the majority of the population at some time throughout our lives appears frequently, and as long as it's a thing of the past and has been treated, it is not a barrier to entry.

Goonerdee

psni wrote: »

I'm afraid I'd have to disagree with you there, and draw your attention to the medical forms you filled in. As long as you managed and treated your depression in accordance with medical advice and prescribed medication (if any), it would not have affected your chances of success.

I work with people who suffered from depression before they joined, and they declared it openly and honestly. The doctor certified that all symptoms and signs had abated and it didn't affect their application in any way.

Now it would be very different if you went into a school with a gun or something drastic, but straightforward depression that affects the majority of the population at some time throughout our lives appears frequently, and as long as it's a thing of the past and has been treated, it is not a barrier to entry.

That's the first I have heard of that. I was always under the impression that it would cause your application to be rejected. Even if it had been treated.

Shield

Goonerdee wrote: »

That's the first I have heard of that. I was always under the impression that it would cause your application to be rejected. Even if it had been treated.

Again, we're talking about different levels of depression. If we take a 'normal' baseline for depression and use it as an example, the expectation would be that you go to a doctor, explain how you feel and he sends you for counselling or prescribes pills for say 3 months.

You return to him in 3 months and tell him you're feeling better and a mixture of the counselling and pills seems to have done the trick, and you're now back to your good 'ol self.

Like I said, if you're expressing suicidal thoughts or coming out with things like 'life isn't worth living anymore' - well that's obviously a lot more severe than the baseline I suggested above, and would need immediate intervention which would be recorded accurately and in great detail. This level of depression would obviously impact negatively on your application because you get a gun. I don't need to spell out the rest!

1967J

Gee-22 wrote: »

You and me both. Fingers crossed. Lets hope a right few dont turn up for 1st day of school

Dont think this will help us, but would be interested to know what this additional money is for, can only hope that come the new financial year, they review and decide to use some of the current pool to add to the peace time force to aid the fight against terror - read what Baker boy said about the vetting and understand the reasoning behind non completion of some vetting and take a little hope that some vetting was being completed - why do this

thebakerboy

Since posting about the vetting, I have found out that people lower on the list have had their vetting completed, so this makes me think the vetting lists were not implemented straight away. The only difference seems to be when forms were sent out, this was purely down to luck on the date you received for AC. If the hopeful were to happen, my vetting would not be completed in time and there is a chance people below me would be used instead because I was unlucky enough to send forms back after the "priority lists were sent through". This would be the same for those higher on the list with no forms received yet.

PAULWATSON

Just interested, what sort of welcome does a GAA lovin', cuts the turf type of fella get in Garnerville?