The snip

Quality

Would you expect your man to get a vasectomy when you are finished having your family?

Oryx

I tried. He wouldnt.:D

Cathmandooo

No not at all, people can change their minds or not realise that they actually want more children til they're pregnant again. I know you can get them reversed but I'm sure that would cost a lot of money. Life can change very quickly, I'd like to keep mine and his options open.

Abi

Of course. We have the two children we wanted. Do not want any more. I've held up my side of the bargain.

Nightwish

No way. I'd consider getting sterlised myself though, even though I dont have any kids. I really really really really dont want any in the future.

Nevyn

In the case nightwish you would have to go aboard to make that happen.

Nightwish

Nightwish wrote: »

No way. I'd consider getting sterlised myself though, even though I dont have any kids. I really really really really dont want any in the future.

+1

Abi

Thaedydal wrote: »

In the case nightwish you would have to go aboard to make that happen.

If she didnt go aboard, she mightnt need to get the tubes done!

:pac:


On-topic, in a case where you have a family already and you have sat down, talked it through and both agreed honestly that its not what you both want. Snippity snip snip. I've had my fair share of the scalpel now to whoop the shi.t out of the arguement of 'oh noes not my manhood!'

Its only fair on the woman. Himself is scheduled for it, and it has been added to our wedding fund as part of the clause! Im sick of the worry tbh. Although other preventitive methods are used atm, they arent as preg-preventive as the snip. Be fair to the one who has the babies, and has her body thrown into the loop for another 9mths.

Thrill

It's a bad idea to get the snip imo. Relationships often fall apart and people go their separate ways. If that happens and he were to meet someone else, want to settle down and have kids with the new love of his life, then he's screwed.

A man would want to be nuts to get it done. A woman either, unless she was absolutely 100% sure she never wanted another. Theres no telling what the future holds. I know of plenty of failed marriages/relationships involving people with kids. I wouldn't be surprised if everyone else here has as well. They go on and meet new partners and have kids together.

That would be denied to those who've had the snip.

Silverfish

I'd never expect a man to do anything with his bits unless he wanted to, tbh.

If he wanted one, grand, but I wouldn't expect him to.

Yes it is only fair after years of hormonal contraception and baby producing.

thebman

I wouldn't get it done and the only fair argument is nonsense unless he held a gun to your head over it IMHO.

justsomebloke

*backs out of the thread while all his equipment is still working*

brim4brim

brim4brim wrote: »

I wouldn't get it done and the only fair argument is nonsense unless he held a gun to your head over it IMHO.

It is not blackmail, it is about mutual responsibility for family planning.
I don't really understand what the fuss is about, it is not like we are talking about castration.
If I were a man I would prefer the snip to possible future hormonal options.

thebman

Moonbaby wrote: »

It is not blackmail, it is about mutual responsibility for family planning.
I don't really understand what the fuss is about, it is not like we are talking about castration.
If I were a man I would prefer the snip to possible future hormonal options.

Right so you discussed all this with him in advance right? When you were taking hormonal contraception you said, okay now you know I'm going to ask you to get the snip because of this?

and he replied okay.

because otherwise saying I went through all this so now you have to get the snip out of the blue is blackmail in my books.

Crumble Froo

oh god! no! never would i expect it, let alone ask it!

we have absolutely no intention of ever having kids (he's got his own, and i only like them when i can run away back to my own home at the end of it), and i am rather against hormonal contraception, for a few personal reasons, and i would never dream of asking him to get the snip. it had actually honestly never crossed my mind, tbh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVR5MPDUKko

Jemmy

Im only 23 long way off that but i dont see why it cudnt be an option!
Ive had to be on the pill and others for long enough, wud make things easier! But of course if he was dead set against it that wud be ok.

My uncle had it done and it was no big deal! Yes i know weird i know but very close to my aunt! Plus she a very open woman! lol

Crumble Froo

oh. turns out my b/f would have absolutely no problems with it.

tallaght01

I'd be pretty shocked if anyone "expected" their partner to undergo an operation.

If a bloke came in here and said he expected his wife to undergo sterilisation he'd, rightfuly, get a pretty rough ride.

Cathmandooo

tallaght01 wrote: »

I'd be pretty shocked if anyone "expected" their partner to undergo an operation.

If a bloke came in here and said he expected his wife to undergo sterilisation he'd, rightfuly, get a pretty rough ride.

personally I'd treat her the same, to me it's completely wrong. No one should 'expect' anyone to do anything, particularly something so long term. I hate women / men who dictate in relationships, it gets under my skin.

If he wants the snip, discuss it and come to an agreement. Simple as. never tell him to get it done, you're a dictating so and so then.

I would expect a partner to want to have a cheap, minor, 15 minute surgical procedure. Rather than have me go through a hospital stay and general anesthetic, or take artifical hormones for 30 years, or suffer the side-effects of hormones themselves.

Honestly I wouldn't get involved with the kind of person who felt that contraception was my problem.

thebman

Moonbaby wrote: »

I would expect a partner to want to have a cheap, minor, 15 minute surgical procedure. Rather than have me go through a hospital stay and general anesthetic, or take artifical hormones for 30 years, or suffer the side-effects of hormones themselves.

Honestly I wouldn't get involved with the kind of person who felt that contraception was my problem.

Right so you've gone through all this so he owes you = emotional blackmail.
You'd essentially try to make him feel guilty about all the things you went through in order to get him to agree to it if he said he didn't want to from my reading of your post.

In any case, I'm not getting too involved in this thread because I honestly don't care because I'm not at this crossroads in my life. I'd just say that the guy might not know whats involved and might be scared sh*tless of getting the operation done and then you try to pressure him into it, it would just be a sh*tty thing to do IMHO.

You should (again IMHO), have information ready for him when/if he says no to explain whats involved as if he's like most guys know and myself, most of his information on what he'll feel like after this operation comes from Scrubs which isn't the most accurate place to get your information You should also consider the reaction of his friends towards him if he gets it done. Will he be mocked/jeered by them for it or what?

Its not quite as simple as he should do it for you because you ask him to and you've done stuff for him in the past. I'm sure he appreciates what you did for him in regard to contraception and probably made a special effort on more than one occasion to do something nice for you because of it. I don't see why he should automatically be happy to have this done though for you though.

My two cents /leaves thread.

tallaght01

Moonbaby wrote: »

I would expect a partner to want to have a cheap, minor, 15 minute surgical procedure. Rather than have me go through a hospital stay and general anesthetic, or take artifical hormones for 30 years, or suffer the side-effects of hormones themselves.

Honestly I wouldn't get involved with the kind of person who felt that contraception was my problem.

Well then, that's fine. if you expect him to want to have it done, then presumably you're going to wait until he offers.

No dramas there, then

ChewChew

brim4brim wrote: »

In any case, I'm not getting too involved in this thread because I honestly don't care because I'm not at this crossroads in my life. I'd just say that the guy might not know whats involved and might be scared sh*tless of getting the operation done and then you try to pressure him into it, it would just be a sh*tty thing to do IMHO.

You should (again IMHO), have information ready for him when/if he says no to explain whats involved as if he's like most guys know and myself, most of his information on what he'll feel like after this operation comes from Scrubs which isn't the most accurate place to get your information You should also consider the reaction of his friends towards him if he gets it done. Will he be mocked/jeered by them for it or what?

Its not quite as simple as he should do it for you because you ask him to and you've done stuff for him in the past. I'm sure he appreciates what you did for him in regard to contraception and probably made a special effort on more than one occasion to do something nice for you because of it. I don't see why he should automatically be happy to have this done though for you though.

My two cents /leaves thread.

Brim4Brim, where exactly are you getting the whole 'blackmail' thingy from?? I think the points being made are that its an ending option for a couple who have their family any no longer want anymore.

And also when a man going for a vasectomy, who is married and already has children, does not just go to the hospital and say ''yeah I want the snip'' there is a hell of a lot more to it than that. Himself and his partner have to attend counceling before the procedure. They have to be 100% sure that they are BOTH prepared for the consequences of it. So the man is very well informed. He is not going into it blind. And the en who generally get the procedure done, are more than willing to have it done because they too have had their family and dont want to extend it.

SarahSassy

brim4brim wrote: »

Right so you've gone through all this so he owes you = emotional blackmail. You'd essentially try to make him feel guilty about all the things you went through in order to get him to agree to it if he said he didn't want to from my reading of your post.

What a load of tripe.... Where are you getting emotional blackmail from???

If you have been in a committed relationship with someone, have had kids with them and as a woman have taken care of the contraception issue for maybe 20 years, then it should be discussed and the easiest thing is for him to take care of business... Its not healthy for women to be on the pill long term and if he wants sex then he should take 50% responsibility for contraception.

Macha

It's a toughie.

On the one hand I wouldn't go so far as to demand that my partner does it as my partner doesn't demand that I take the pill, I choose to take it. If the male pill existed, he'd be happy to take it.

Then again, condoms alone are not reliable enough so something else has to be done. Assuming I'll hit the menopause at around 50, I reckon after about 15 years of taking artificial hormone treatment and having popped out two kids (fingers crossed) I'll have fulfilled my part of the bargain.

Edit: are there any reversible operations for sterilisation, male or female? If so, they sound like a good bet...

Reku

AFAIK "the snip" is both surgically reversible and can also actually reverse itself, as such it's not a 100% sure fire contraception and it's not a definite end to the man's chances to have kids should he leave his current partner for someone else. As such it should not be relied upon alone unless he's getting regular checks of the sperm count in his semen and the fear of being unable to have kids should he decide he wants too is not a valid arguement against it.

Now here's a question for you ladies, quite a few of you seemed to be of the oppinion that it was entirely a woman's right to have an abortion without consulting the father. What about a man's right to have a vasectomy and not consult his partner? Some seemed to even feel that the woman isn't even under any obligation to tell the former father-to-be, how would you feel about a woman finding out that the reason she had never gotten pregnant was that her partner had had a vasectomy and never told her?

How is having a baby against the father's wishes and then forcing them to be either an active father or pay maintanance all that different to denying a woman the chance to be a mother because she thinks it can happen when it's unlikely due to the man having had a vasectomy? In each case one person is being selfish and ignoring the needs and desires of the other.

doonothing

Man I can't wait to have kids... If I was ever asked to get the snip, I'd flip! I like having everything, y'know, in biological working order. I would never, ever even DREAM of asking a partner to get sterilised.

When's this man-pill anyway..

thebman

SarahSassy wrote: »

What a load of tripe.... Where are you getting emotional blackmail from???

If you have been in a committed relationship with someone, have had kids with them and as a woman have taken care of the contraception issue for maybe 20 years, then it should be discussed and the easiest thing is for him to take care of business... Its not healthy for women to be on the pill long term and if he wants sex then he should take 50% responsibility for contraception.

Well it wasn't discussed in advance with the guy so out of nowhere the other person demands they under go this procedure stating all the things they've done before as the reason they should do it without asking any questions or complaining at all.

Sounds like the person is trying to make the guy feel guilty for all she's done before (which as I've already stated, he didn't make her do it and there were other alternatives if she was unwilling). She is acting like this was always going to happen but did she ever even discuss it with him?

Sorry you can't just out of the blue say I did this for years and now I want you to do this without it coming across as putting the other person under pressure without justification in my books.

She can ask the guy but she can't make kind of demands that it occur IMHO. If it was the other way around, how would women feel about this situation? I'm sorry, I think you'd be kicking up a lot of fuss about how wrong it was for the guy to ask you to do it and use previous things he's done for you as the reason why you should do it without kicking up any fuss.

nomorebadtown

tallaght01 wrote: »

I'd be pretty shocked if anyone "expected" their partner to undergo an operation

exactly.

who would expect their loved one to undergo an unnecessary medical procedure?

i wouldnt be apposed to it...but thats a LONG way in the future, hopefully:p

Balmed Out

If i found out a girl i was dating would expect this id dump her immediately. Not only because i would never see myself wanting this but because its oh so incredibly selfish. How anyone could expect someone to vandalise their body for them is beyond me.
If i was to die before a partner id have no problem them finding someone else. Being snipped would be a big stumbling block to this if a guy meets a woman who hasnt had and wants kids.

Nevyn

vandalise thier body....

wow.

sorry but while I do think a guy has to want to have it done and for a lot of reasons it can make sense saying it is vandalising thier body esp when compared to the vandalisation to a womans body during pregnancy never mind giving birth my brain just boggles.

Phototoxin

Thaedydal wrote: »

vandalise thier body....

wow.

sorry but while I do think a guy has to want to have it done and for a lot of reasons it can make sense saying it is vandalising their body esp when compared to the vandalisation to a womans body during pregnancy never mind giving birth my brain just boggles.

no offence Thaedydal but you're talking rubbish. Pregnancy is not 'vandalising' your body. It is a natural thing and the creation of life, it is the complete opposite of vandalism. Vandalism would be if the baby was like that of Aliens and sort of punched or clawed its way out !

Additionally I recall reading in a medical text book (will have to find it) that even vasectomy isn't 100% effective in some cases as someone once got pregnant even tho the bloke had the snip. Maybe it was a botched procedure though.

Macha

Would 30-odd years of artificial hormonal treatment fall into your definition of body vandalism, Phototoxin?

nomorebadtown

Thaedydal wrote: »

saying it is vandalising thier body esp when compared to the vandalisation to a womans body during pregnancy never mind giving birth my brain just boggles.

vandalisation of childbirth? hmmm. if you dont want your body vandalised, dont have kids.

i know you pride yourself on being a feminist but the topic is 'would you expect your man to have a vasectomy?' instead yer bitchin about what a raw deal the wimmins have a man's role is frequently reduced to that of a sperm doner so you have to understand the reservations about having an unnecessary op down there. it may make sense in some cases but where the boys are concerned, its not all about the logical.

nomorebadtown

taconnol wrote: »

Would 30-odd years of artificial hormonal treatment fall into your definition of body vandalism, Phototoxin?

a woman decides to go through 30 years of hormonal treatment and it can be reversed without any snipping >_<

Nevyn

Tell that to every women who mourns how they looked after they have had a child,
so much so there are post birth surgical make overs being marketed and books to explain to children that mammy is having a tummy tuck to get thier figure back.


Ok then compare the small scare from a vascetomy to those of an episiotomy.

I would prefer to be a bloke and have a vascetomy scar as aboy modifcation then
the litany of change that happen to a womans body when she had kids.

While no bloke should be forced into having the snip it is something that should be better educated about , hell all of the contraceptive choices should be better be explained to people.

monkeyfudge

A friend of mine had her husband get it done after they'd had two kids and felt it was enough..

But the vasectomy reversed itself after a while and she ended up pregnant again.. she wasn't too happy about that.

nomorebadtown

monkeyfudge wrote: »

A friend of mine had her husband get it done after they'd had two kids and felt it was enough..

But the vasectomy reversed itself after a while and she ended up pregnant again.. she wasn't too happy about that.

is this how marriages work

fenris

The increased risk of dementia is also worth considering.


http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSN1318440120070213

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-02/nu-vmp021207.php

Macha

nomorebadtown wrote: »

a woman decides to go through 30 years of hormonal treatment and it can be reversed without any snipping >_<

I would say most women 'decide' to go through 30 years of artificial hormonal treatment though lack of choice. What are the alternatives with similar effectiveness rates?

You're right that it can be reversed without any snipping but then again, the pill hasn't been around long enough for the long-term effects to be fully understood. However there are signs that there could be some lasting effects:

"Thus, as a consequence of the chronic elevation in sex hormone binding globulin levels, pill users may be at risk for long-standing health problems, including sexual dysfunction."
Source: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/35663.php

Moreover, pill users can suffer a myriad of short-term effects (well, not so short-term if you're taking them for 30 years..), such as:weight gain, breast pain, irregular bleeding, nausea, acne, loss of libido and mood changes.

Those are the tame ones. How about increased risk of breast cancer? Or blood clots in limbs, lungs or brain? High blood pressure?

Yeah. How selfish of some women to consider the possibility that their partner might subject their bodies to artificial procedures in the name of contraception.

nomorebadtown

well someones got a bee in their bonnet!:D
i never said anything about being selfish. my issue is that any one could 'expect' anyone else to go throught with an operation that was not strictly necessary. its not like women go on the pill purely on the behest of men and if a man expected a woman to go on the pill even if it was something she was not comfortable with, then i'm sure he'd get a right bollocking ( ) from the readers of this forum.

Macha

Sorry nomorebadtown, I'm been stuck in front of my feckin laptop studying all weekend. I'm not in the best of moods so apologies!

thebman

Thaedydal wrote: »

Tell that to every women who mourns how they looked after they have had a child,
so much so there are post birth surgical make overs being marketed and books to explain to children that mammy is having a tummy tuck to get thier figure back.


Ok then compare the small scare from a vascetomy to those of an episiotomy.

I would prefer to be a bloke and have a vascetomy scar as aboy modifcation then
the litany of change that happen to a womans body when she had kids.

While no bloke should be forced into having the snip it is something that should be better educated about , hell all of the contraceptive choices should be better be explained to people.

No offense but the whole argument of why guys should get this done so far seems to be but look what women go through for men?

Women don't have to go through anything for men that they aren't willing to do. You don't have to have kids and you don't have to take the pill. Those are choices every woman makes just like getting the snip should ultimately be up to the guy and pressuring your partner on any of these issues isn't exactly a fair thing to do IMO.

Pyr0

I love how no one replied to Farohar, which was an excellent post btw.

If my other half expected me to get the snip because "she's done her part" I'd be thinking is this the type of woman I want in my life, it has 'Control freak' written all over it.

It should be a mutual agreement between both parties, and at the end of the day its the mans choice, the woman has no right to demand or push anything.

Macha

I think you're being a bit too theoretical brim4brim. All of my girlfriends take the pill because they know that leaving it to condoms is like playing with fire - in reality, women don't have a huge amount choice. What are the alternatives?

doonothing

Like... a lot of this argument is that the woman's been through enough on the contraception side, it's the man's turn. Fair enough if that's an agreement between the partners, but as a blanket rule it's just silly.
What's the equivalent penance the man has to complete for what the women's been through to have children? Or her period?

Macha

Doesn't follow because there's nothing a man can do when a woman has her period.
However, we're talking about a situation where he does have an option, albeit an unpleasant one.

Balmed Out

Having unnecessary surgery is vandalising ones body. To ask someone to get a vasectomy or to tie their tubes is just ridiculous and would tell me the person is selfish, a bit of a control freak and well a bit cruel.

Pregnancy and birth are natural processes and are the consequence of ones own choices.

Taking the pill is again ones own choice. If anyone tries to pressurise you to do it then dump them. Women dont have an obligation to take it. I prefer girlfriends not to but would never actually say so to them. I think people are more blasse about condoms due to the pill and this leads to unplanned pregnancies. Its easy to forget to take it or for it not to work due to sickness or whatever. I also think its side effects can be a bit much.

Personally i have always worn a condom I prefer to be responsible myself for my health and avoiding getting anyone pregnant. It means you have to be sure to always carry them and to be prepared to pause and put one on in the midst of passion but ffs its not that big a deal.


Why bring up an episiotomy ? I could be wrong but i dont think they are even carried out anymore.

If someone wants a vasectomy or their tubes tied then fair enough but no one else and im including their partners have the right to suggest or push it.

thebman

doonothing wrote: »

Like... a lot of this argument is that the woman's been through enough on the contraception side, it's the man's turn. Fair enough if that's an agreement between the partners, but as a blanket rule it's just silly.
What's the equivalent penance the man has to complete for what the women's been through to have children? Or her period?

Exactly the whole unwritten, man has no knowledge of rule of you owe me is not going to go down well with the man, just to let the women in the thread know in advance, expect a lot of roaring from most guys as most guys are pretty protective of their (for lack of a better word) equipment.

taconnol wrote: »

I think you're being a bit too theoretical brim4brim. All of my girlfriends take the pill because they know that leaving it to condoms is like playing with fire - in reality, women don't have a huge amount choice. What are the alternatives?

There aren't a lot I suppose but the woman still has the choice not to go on the pill. Its up to every couple to read up on what they think are viable options for them. There is no one size fits all solution and I'm not going to get into a debate on different types of contraception because I don't want to. Wikipedia probably has good articles on this assuming they haven't been vandalised by someone.

Macha

Wikpedia know all.. they have a comparison table of effectiveness:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods#Comparison_table

Condoms only half as effective as pill? No thanks..

Interestingly male sterilisation has a higher effectiveness rate than female sterilisation..hmm..