Thief 4?

Sarky

Precisely. Thief is about calm, methodical, professional burglary, not taking five guys out at once with a special move or some crap like that. Completing Cragscleft Prison with no death and without even getting spotted by a zombie remains one of my proudest moments. Ah, for the glory days of Thief 2, where the hard setting meant game over half the time if you were even spotted.

gizmo

I can't help shake the feeling that the sword dodge and subsequent flip over the guard were an example of the action moves previously described. If that's the case then they may not be as bad as I originally feared. While I do hope they have a Hard mode which mirrors the difficulty of the original, I'd be nice if it didn't mean instant fail if you were spotted. Previous experience has shown it can lead to large amounts of Quick Save abuse which kind of defeats the purpose of a "clean" run. Allowing the player to complete the mission after going loud and see their end "stats" would, imo, prove far more demoralising than simply allowing them to hit the Quick Load key and retry a section when things go wrong.

Nody

gizmo wrote: »

I can't help shake the feeling that the sword dodge and subsequent flip over the guard were an example of the action moves previously described. If that's the case then they may not be as bad as I originally feared. While I do hope they have a Hard mode which mirrors the difficulty of the original, I'd be nice if it didn't mean instant fail if you were spotted. Previous experience has shown it can lead to large amounts of Quick Save abuse which kind of defeats the purpose of a "clean" run. Allowing the player to complete the mission after going loud and see their end "stats" would, imo, prove far more demoralising than simply allowing them to hit the Quick Load key and retry a section when things go wrong.

I highly doubt Hard will be the same Hard; only look at Bioshock to see why I doubt it (have to create a special hard mode to be hard).

The easiest way to stop abuse of save/reload is to simply penalize a user for saving and for loading again (excluding a certain few very limited check points defined by the game). Want to reload 10 times? Go right ahead and do it and your end score will reflect that; it then becomes much more interesting in how much you're willing to risk vs. the frustration if you fail (I remember a RPG I used to play charged 1k gold for every time you saved back in the days for example) :P

gizmo

Nody wrote: »

I highly doubt Hard will be the same Hard; only look at Bioshock to see why I doubt it (have to create a special hard mode to be hard).

Thief has a design advantage though in that it can have its difficulty increased in more interesting ways via the changing of objectives per level and alertness of the guards rather than just tweaking a few damage and health sliders as seems to be common in games these days. Whether they do that or not remains to be seen however.

Nody wrote: »

The easiest way to stop abuse of save/reload is to simply penalize a user for saving and for loading again (excluding a certain few very limited check points defined by the game). Want to reload 10 times? Go right ahead and do it and your end score will reflect that; it then becomes much more interesting in how much you're willing to risk vs. the frustration if you fail (I remember a RPG I used to play charged 1k gold for every time you saved back in the days for example) :P

Oh, don't get me wrong, I think they should do that too, I just feel that having the level be nigh on incompletable should you been seen isn't particularly fun. I found it was this knowledge that often led to said save/load abuse nearly as a matter of necessity rather than laziness. The action moves, on the other hand, could give you a non-immersion breaking way out of this without needing to rely on the save/load system, the choice, however, would still be there with possibly a different stat-altering consequence.

Basically, I don't have an issue with adding a bit of variety to the series, nothing it does can affect the original games so let's see what Eidos Montreal can bring to the table with their effort. Dishonored showed how you can offer plenty of choices and still make for a fantastic game and while I agree that the stealth option wasn't particularly rewarding (it basically matched my own experience of the game) if they can improve on that with Thief then I think they could be on to a serious winner.

Maximilian

Dropping Stephen Russell is a big mistake in my book.

Mr Freeze

Maximilian wrote: »

Dropping Stephen Russell is a big mistake in my book.

What??????????

Stupid move.

Snowie

Theif was one of the last games I ever played on pc before going console. I really hope they push it, as I enjoyed the games and the complexity of how things were done standing there waiting for the guard It was a game of patience...

It would be nice to see them hold true to the old ways of theif with news ideas Hopefully not to many. Either way I'm glad I've taken up pc gaming again as I think what we've seen so far looks kinda cool granted it just animations but it does have a nice thief like atomosfear in a newer age of graphics.

Sarky

Maximilian wrote: »

Dropping Stephen Russell is a big mistake in my book.

Stops it being a Thief game tbh. It's like Rocksteady getting Gilbert Gottfried to voice Batman.

gizmo

Sarky wrote: »

Stops it being a Thief game tbh. It's like Rocksteady getting Gilbert Gottfried to voice Batman.

Hasn't this been confirmed as a reboot rather than a continuation of the original series? If so then I don't really understand this argument. It's a new take on the series, free from what happened in the original games. With that in mind, getting Russell back would be entirely counter productive.

The Batman reference is an interesting one though because as much as I'll miss Kevin Conroy voicing the character when he eventually retires, I certainly don't want that to mean the end of any form of animated or video game related Batman adventures in the future. The same applies here, it'll be ten years since Garret's last outing by the time Thief 4 comes out after all.

Maximilian

gizmo wrote: »

Hasn't this been confirmed as a reboot rather than a continuation of the original series? If so then I don't really understand this argument. It's a new take on the series, free from what happened in the original games. With that in mind, getting Russell back would be entirely counter productive.

The Batman reference is an interesting one though because as much as I'll miss Kevin Conroy voicing the character when he eventually retires, I certainly don't want that to mean the end of any form of animated or video game related Batman adventures in the future. The same applies here, it'll be ten years since Garret's last outing by the time Thief 4 comes out after all.

Meh. That's like inviting someone over for cake, instead offering them a little sh!t you've taken on a plate and then saying it's rebooted cake.

Yeah. That's what it probably is like.

pixelburp

Well it's certainly a lovely looking CGI movie, which is about all you can say about it really. I'd agree with the theory that the somersaulting is probably an example of the action moves, but so long as they're entirely optional I don't mind. I just hope they don't end up like Deus Ex:HR, and are tedious, unskippable cut-scenes you must watch every time you simply want to smack a Taffer on the head with a blackjack

Whatever about the lack of Garrett's traditional voice actor, are there any ex-Looking Glass employees or bigwigs working on this?

gizmo

pixelburp wrote: »

Whatever about the lack of Garrett's traditional voice actor, are there any ex-Looking Glass employees or bigwigs working on this?

Not as far as I can tell. When Looking Glass folded most of the senior folk went to the likes Ion Storm (Warren Spector), Irrational Games (Ken Levine), Valve (Tom Leonard) and Activision (Tim Stellmach). Harvey Smith, who was the Creative Director on Dishonored used to work in Looking Glass but not on the Thief series.

marshbaboon

They'll probably "reboot" it by adding chest high walls, quick time events and the magical raspberry jam eyes of infinite healing.

gizmo

Thief dev explains why it ditched original Garrett voice actor

"We're absolutely huge fans of Stephen's work on the classic Thief games. But when it came down to it, we ultimately realised that holding onto Steven as the voice of Garrett just for the sake of our nostalgia would be like wanting to cast Sean Connery again in the new 007 movies... It's a nice thought, but honestly, it wouldn't make sense for anything else other than nostalgia."

More analogies!

Mr Freeze

Did the same thing happen with Hitman Absolution, and they weren't getting the guy that previously voiced Agent 47 back?

Then I think they did end up getting him back in the end.

I think its not Thief without Russell.

There will probably be a campaign to get him back, or maybe not, as us Thief gamers are an old bunch now.

Mr Freeze

Well i'm signing up.
http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/eidos-montreal-square-enix-bring-back-stephen-russell-for-thief-4

and dusting off the twitter account that I only used to tweet gearbox about their broken games, to give out to Eidos (for the good that will do).

gizmo

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Well i'm signing up.
http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/eidos-montreal-square-enix-bring-back-stephen-russell-for-thief-4

and dusting off the twitter account that I only used to tweet gearbox about their broken games, to give out to Eidos (for the good that will do).

The Splinter Cell reference in that petition shouldn't really apply here, Blacklist is set a few years after Conviction yet despite Fisher having the same model, he's now voiced by Eric Johnson, a man 30 years younger than Ironside and with a completely different voice.

Garrett does not have a defining face, it is his characteristic voice that makes him who he is.

Don't get me wrong, his voice work was fantastic in the original series however I'd argue that it was as much to do with the writing that made him who he was and I'd be equally worried about a new set of writers tackling the character than the change in actor.

Mr Freeze

gizmo wrote: »

The Splinter Cell reference in that petition shouldn't really apply here, Blacklist is set a few years after Conviction yet despite Fisher having the same model, he's now voiced by Eric Johnson, a man 30 years younger than Ironside and with a completely different voice.

Was never a splinter cell fan! I am a big Thief fan, and the voice is a big loss I feel. I'm sure to Splinter Cell fans, its the same thing.

gizmo wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, his voice work was fantastic in the original series however I'd argue that it was as much to do with the writing that made him who he was and I'd be equally worried about a new set of writers tackling the character than the change in actor.

I agree that the writing is just as important as the voice. But that voice in the trailer was just awfully bland (if that is the final voice). And when I heard of Thief 4 originally, I, like many others, assumed it would be the same voice, never thinking that they could possibly change something so important.

gizmo

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Was never a splinter cell fan! I am a big Thief fan, and the voice is a big loss I feel. I'm sure to Splinter Cell fans, its the same thing.

The changes with Splinter Cell annoy me not just as a fan of the series but as a fan of bloody logic.

Mr Freeze wrote: »

I agree that the writing is just as important as the voice. But that voice in the trailer was just awfully bland (if that is the final voice). And when I heard of Thief 4 originally, I, like many others, assumed it would be the same voice, never thinking that they could possibly change something so important.

An important point, it's not Thief 4 anymore, it's just Thief. If it was Thief 4 then I'd be on your side of the fence 100%.

Mr Freeze

gizmo wrote: »

An important point, it's not Thief 4 anymore, it's just Thief. If it was Thief 4 then I'd be on your side of the fence 100%.

A valid point, but I think it might still be a sequel, has it been 100% confirmed as a reboot yet?

A 4 in the Title or not, it could still a sequel.

He had his mechanical eye in that trailer anyways, so that's one thing that leads me to believe its cannon with the previous games, but they could just pluck that eye out in the opening credits for all I know.

Edit: RE Splinter Cell
Out of curiosity, is the new actor doing a Michael Ironside impression at all or does he sound completely different?

gizmo

Mr Freeze wrote: »

A valid point, but I think it might still be a sequel, has it been 100% confirmed as a reboot yet?

A 4 in the Title or not, it could still a sequel.

He had his mechanical eye in that trailer anyways, so that's one thing that leads me to believe its cannon with the previous games, but they could just pluck that eye out in the opening credits for all I know.

Articles such as this imply that it's a full on reboot now. His mechanical eye, I'd imagine, is just there as a nod to the origins of the character but also to explain the new Focus powers.

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Edit: RE Splinter Cell
Out of curiosity, is the new actor doing a Michael Ironside impression at all or does he sound completely different?

He sounds completely different. As you can see from this video, their reasoning behind his replacement is the same as that of Eidos Montreal with Garrett. Thankfully with the latter, it appears that they've chosen someone who at least sounds vaguely like the original.

Here's the Blacklist trailer where you can see him with the character model. That last bit where he says "Welcome to Fourth Echelon", despite not being in-game, demonstrates the disconnect best I feel. I should also mention that they seem to have made his character appear slightly younger than he was in Conviction which, as I mentioned previously, is bizarre given its placement in the chronology of the series.

Maximilian

gizmo wrote: »

Thief dev explains why it ditched original Garrett voice actor

"We're absolutely huge fans of Stephen's work on the classic Thief games. But when it came down to it, we ultimately realised that holding onto Steven as the voice of Garrett just for the sake of our nostalgia would be like wanting to cast Sean Connery again in the new 007 movies... It's a nice thought, but honestly, it wouldn't make sense for anything else other than nostalgia."

More analogies!

So in other words, it didn't fit with their "vision".

I'm sure I've heard that before somewhere....

pixelburp

It's a small gripe, but I really wish game companies would stop with this recent trend of giving their reboots the same title as the original; it's a minor irritation but it creates confusion and is counter-productive anyway; it just ends up creating further comparisons with the original - Thief, Sim City, Tomb Raider, X-Com, etc. etc.

gizmo

pixelburp wrote: »

It's a small gripe, but I really wish game companies would stop with this recent trend of giving their reboots the same title as the original; it's a minor irritation but it creates confusion and is counter-productive anyway; it just ends up creating further comparisons with the original - Thief, Sim City, Tomb Raider, X-Com, etc. etc.

Well the naming convention is designed to leverage the popularity of the brand-name without causing confusion. Ideally this allows them another shot at a franchise without being constrained by certain aspects of the previous titles. In this case, as I said above, if it had been called Thief 4 then people should quite rightly have expected the older Garrett, both in terms of visual appearance and voice.

The other X-Com is (or thankfully, was) a perfect example of how not to do it of course...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mqPd1ci3Xg

Wossack

doesnt have garrett, and has a stupid ott super-foldy-tech-bow

my forgettable game spidey sense is tingling


if yis want to make a gadget porn game, just remake Noone Lives Forever already..

Mr Freeze

Wossack wrote: »

if yis want to make a gadget porn game, just remake Noone Lives Forever already..

And call it No one Lives Forever, but have a man as the lead instead of Cate Archer.

Wossack

Mr Freeze wrote: »

And call it No one Lives Forever, but have a man as the lead instead of Cate Archer.

hmm, and lets forget the boring stealth stuff and make it more action based?

I feel that sense tingling again...

Mr Freeze

Thief Out of the Shadows Trailer - Stephen Russell and Original game music

My math may not be the best, but that is infinitely better than what Eidos released.

pixelburp

Bumping this thread, as it seems that all is not well in Eidos & the project is a bit of a mess at the moment:

http://www.polygon.com/2013/4/26/4269912/thief-reboot-impeded-by-office-politics-high-level-departures

Burgo

Here's some gameplay footage from E3