Thief 4?

Maximilian

After reading this, it is *possible* there will be a new Thief game. I can't think of any game at all I would more like to see.

TTLG forum discussion is here

kaimera

ny0m!

Must get back to T3 myself at a later date.

tbh tho, it would be quite easy to re.use objects etc from DX3 for T4. Lets hope it is the bees knees.
I wouldnt be adverse to them adopting some stuff Assassins Creed

Creamy Goodness

they need to go back to fps view point i thinks.

pixelburp

OH GOD please YES. Thief 3 was great; I think anyone who played it can atest to the infamous "Shalebridge Cradle" level (Though the rest of the game persisted with a creepy atmosphere)

OH and thief3 did have a FPS; it just also had an optional 3rd person view.

humanji

Wow, I didn't know it had a 3rd person view at all. Strange I should try and pay more attention.

Hopefully Thief 4 will go back to having a more open world like Thief 2 did with more routes to travel and more random houses to rob from.

fobster

More intelligent guards would be good, although not too much.

pixelburp

Taffer!

Sarky

I want my rope arrows back

Maximilian

humanji

Maximilian wrote: »

lol, brilliant.

Maximilian

Well the games press seem convinced its definitely T4 due to a facebook hint from one of the Developers. I think thats good enough for me - I'm a happy man!Short Article here on Thief & stealth games.

Hitman Actual

Maximilian wrote: »

Well the games press seem convinced its definitely T4 due to a facebook hint from one of the Developers. I think thats good enough for me - I'm a happy man!Short Article here on Thief & stealth games.

Good article; it sums up the importance of the Thief series very well. I don't think any other game comes close to Thief 2 for the purest stealth experience.

I'd be very worried, though, that the developers might make action/gore elements more prominent to suit a more mainstream audience. The real joy in Thief was getting in and out without anyone knowing you were even there. I think I only ever managed to 'ghost' a couple of levels in T2, but that's where the game play was at its best, imo.

Maximilian

I'd say I'm concerned but not worried. I think the developers will look closely at their audience and try and deliver the game they want. That seems a common sense thing to me.

There's all kinds of speculation going around at the moment about it, will it have Garrett in it, will it be set in the future with stealth bfg's. Who knows. I'm just glad they are making it and hoping they don't fcuk it up.

pixelburp

I dunno; you look at the trend of gaming, and I see an action-oriented Thief4 with quick time events & excessive "attitude". I mean look at Prince of Persia: Emo Within; it's quite possible for an otherwise sensible dev. house to take a winning brand & totally ruin it.

super_furry

More Thief 3 will do for me. I know some of the PC snobs got all antsy when the game came out on the Xbox with claims of it being 'dumbed down', but it's by far the best in the series and home to the single best level in any videogame with the Shalebridge Cradle.

Maximilian

pixelburp wrote: »

I dunno; you look at the trend of gaming, and I see an action-oriented Thief4 with quick time events & excessive "attitude". I mean look at Prince of Persia: Emo Within; it's quite possible for an otherwise sensible dev. house to take a winning brand & totally ruin it.

From what I understand, the remit of the developers in general is to revive dormant IP, not re-invent. I can't see them taking Thief and turning it into Prince of Persia or even Splinter Cell. I would be pretty confident they will look at past failures as regards T3 and try not to replicate them.

I wonder if this time around the open-ended GTA type of city environment will become a reality. That was apparently once the plan for T3. One big city you could wander around in, thieving, clubbing taffers & picking up missions, with a main plot/campaign also. Possibly ambitious for the time but not now, not even with the current consoles.

super_furry wrote: »

More Thief 3 will do for me. I know some of the PC snobs got all antsy when the game came out on the Xbox with claims of it being 'dumbed down', but it's by far the best in the series and home to the single best level in any videogame with the Shalebridge Cradle.

The only thing about T3 that really irritated was how the levels were scaled down to fit the Xbox. I nevertheless loved it & The Cradle made up for all the games faults (best level ever made for ANY game IMO) but I think T2 remains the best in the series.

Hitman Actual

super_furry wrote: »

More Thief 3 will do for me. I know some of the PC snobs got all antsy when the game came out on the Xbox with claims of it being 'dumbed down', but it's by far the best in the series and home to the single best level in any videogame with the Shalebridge Cradle.

Well, I'd be a "PC Snob", as you put it, but I can't remember if I found the game play to be really dumbed down in TDS. I'd need to replay both TMA and TDS. There were some good mods out which made the game play closer to T2 anyway, iirc.

However, the smaller levels and the level loading issue was directly related to xbox limitations, so players who were familiar with T1 and T2 had a right to be annoyed. It changed the whole 'feel' of the game compared to the first two.

BTW, I don't particularly care about console/PC wars, in case anyone thinks this is a troll attack on console owners.

Maximilian

After reading this and this I'm getting genuinely worried that my favourite franchise of all time is going to be shat on to appease the drooling masses.

"we wanted to bring in more of the modern audience of the console market."

eh, fcuking uh-oh.

"we wanted to make him a little bit more mainstream."

oh for sh!t's sake.

action moves. Oh dear.

Probably best to avoid disappointment by actively expecting a cover based third person shooter with quick time events and regenerating health.

Pushtrak

Maximilian wrote: »

Probably best to avoid disappointment by actively expecting a cover based third person shooter with quick time events and regenerating health.

http://www.examiner.com/article/thief-4-bring-serious-stealth-gameplay-to-xbox-720-and-ps4

Cantin acknowledged that with "Dishonored" it initially felt like a "Thief" game, but once you "jump in to the game, you realize it feels more like 'Deus Ex.' A lot of choice, more action orientated."

Cantin went on to say that while "Dishonored" felt like "Deus Ex," "[it] support’s stealth but [they do] not [reward] it."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-03-05-thief-4-screenshots-leak-ahead-of-possible-reveal

Thief director Nicolas Cantin noted that Dishonored was "more action-oriented" than Thief will be. "There are options for stealth, but they're not really rewarding it," he explained of his competitor. Oli Welsh may disagree with this assessment.

As for changes that you might be worried about, I guess I should post this from the Eurogamer article:

The game will be primarily played in first-person and will center around a mechanic called Focus. This operates like a "detective mode," highlighting walls you can climb, lights to extinguish and fingerprints that need scrutinising You can also trigger Focus to slow down time while pickpocketing.

As you accumulate Focus you'll gain "attack points" that can be used for emergency escapes. Using one attack point on an enemy's chest will allows you to shove them out of the way, while using more will allow for more debilitating maneuvers.

humanji

That last paragraph just makes it sound like a clone of Dishonoured.

Mr Freeze

Hopefully we can play it without this Focus thing, you know, like when games used to not hold your hand, and highlight everything with a massive glow, so we don't even have to search for stuff.

I really hope this Thief game is more like the originals, and less like Dishonored.

It makes no sense (to me), that Dishonored borrowed aspects from Thief and it was great, and now the Thief makers are talking like they are using Dishonored as inspiration for a Thief game.

Duggy747

Consolising Thief? Not surprised but I hope they don't make it simplistic with all of these features, the originals are refreshing to play because it's up to you to use your brain constantly and adapt to any unforeseen circumstances if you screw up.

I'm back playing Thief 2 and it's so refreshing to play a game that doesn't hold your hand and bombard you with QTE, constant pop-up tips, or utterly simple and linear level designs.

Mr Freeze

Duggy747 wrote: »

Consolising Thief? Not surprised but I hope they don't make it simplistic with all of these features.

Black Jack, Bow with the usual assortment of arrows, will do me. I don't need any fancy focus, slow time, or climbing claws....the rope arrow used to do me just fine.

They are best flipping games ever (imho).

Maximilian

Duggy747 wrote: »

Consolising Thief? Not surprised but I hope they don't make it simplistic with all of these features, the originals are refreshing to play because it's up to you to use your brain constantly and adapt to any unforeseen circumstances if you screw up.

I'm back playing Thief 2 and it's so refreshing to play a game that doesn't hold your hand and bombard you with QTE, constant pop-up tips, or utterly simple and linear level designs.

It's not simplifying it that bothers me really. It's actually the reverse, they may be over complicating it. If you think about it Thief is actually quite a simple game on the face of it. Any complexity occurs under the hood. The depth came from other, more subtler things like story, atmosphere.

Action moves and what not - that just reeks of trying to add in stupid extras because it has proven popular in other console games.

Azza

Well some comfort can be taken from the fact that its the same developer who did Deus Ex: Human Revolution.

Maximilian

Nah, safest option is to expect the worst in this case.

Mr Freeze

Maximilian wrote: »

Nah, safest option is to expect the worst in this case.

I will find it very difficult to not get excited over a new thief game.

I was excited for Deadly Shadows, and even though that turned out pretty bad for a Thief game, it was still a good game.

gizmo

The Eurogamer article posted above has been updated...

Update: Thief director Nicolas Cantin has clarified his comments about Garrett's new look, stating that the character only looks "less gothic" and more "mainstream" than previous internal designs, not compared to earlier games.

In case anyone was overly worried...

Personally I don't care what they call it, getting rid of Garrett having black finger nails is a good thing in my book.

Agricola

Every big studio is going to "sex up" reboots of old IP from now on. They just will not part with the kind of money to bank roll a big game without ensuring that it is appealing to the most number of people possible. Doesnt always end in disaster either though. If Thief 4 does turn out to be a variation of Dishonored it will be no bad thing. Better that than just using the famous name to sell a generic FPS, like with Syndicate. And don't think for a second something as nuts as that couldn't happen!

Sarky

The acid test is if any of the trailers will contain f*cking dubstep.

Retr0gamer

I don't see the point of action moves. If you played the Thief games on anything less than hard mode without killing anyone you were doing it wrong.

Sarky

Precisely. Thief is about calm, methodical, professional burglary, not taking five guys out at once with a special move or some crap like that. Completing Cragscleft Prison with no death and without even getting spotted by a zombie remains one of my proudest moments. Ah, for the glory days of Thief 2, where the hard setting meant game over half the time if you were even spotted.

gizmo

I can't help shake the feeling that the sword dodge and subsequent flip over the guard were an example of the action moves previously described. If that's the case then they may not be as bad as I originally feared. While I do hope they have a Hard mode which mirrors the difficulty of the original, I'd be nice if it didn't mean instant fail if you were spotted. Previous experience has shown it can lead to large amounts of Quick Save abuse which kind of defeats the purpose of a "clean" run. Allowing the player to complete the mission after going loud and see their end "stats" would, imo, prove far more demoralising than simply allowing them to hit the Quick Load key and retry a section when things go wrong.

Nody

gizmo wrote: »

I can't help shake the feeling that the sword dodge and subsequent flip over the guard were an example of the action moves previously described. If that's the case then they may not be as bad as I originally feared. While I do hope they have a Hard mode which mirrors the difficulty of the original, I'd be nice if it didn't mean instant fail if you were spotted. Previous experience has shown it can lead to large amounts of Quick Save abuse which kind of defeats the purpose of a "clean" run. Allowing the player to complete the mission after going loud and see their end "stats" would, imo, prove far more demoralising than simply allowing them to hit the Quick Load key and retry a section when things go wrong.

I highly doubt Hard will be the same Hard; only look at Bioshock to see why I doubt it (have to create a special hard mode to be hard).

The easiest way to stop abuse of save/reload is to simply penalize a user for saving and for loading again (excluding a certain few very limited check points defined by the game). Want to reload 10 times? Go right ahead and do it and your end score will reflect that; it then becomes much more interesting in how much you're willing to risk vs. the frustration if you fail (I remember a RPG I used to play charged 1k gold for every time you saved back in the days for example) :P

gizmo

Nody wrote: »

I highly doubt Hard will be the same Hard; only look at Bioshock to see why I doubt it (have to create a special hard mode to be hard).

Thief has a design advantage though in that it can have its difficulty increased in more interesting ways via the changing of objectives per level and alertness of the guards rather than just tweaking a few damage and health sliders as seems to be common in games these days. Whether they do that or not remains to be seen however.

Nody wrote: »

The easiest way to stop abuse of save/reload is to simply penalize a user for saving and for loading again (excluding a certain few very limited check points defined by the game). Want to reload 10 times? Go right ahead and do it and your end score will reflect that; it then becomes much more interesting in how much you're willing to risk vs. the frustration if you fail (I remember a RPG I used to play charged 1k gold for every time you saved back in the days for example) :P

Oh, don't get me wrong, I think they should do that too, I just feel that having the level be nigh on incompletable should you been seen isn't particularly fun. I found it was this knowledge that often led to said save/load abuse nearly as a matter of necessity rather than laziness. The action moves, on the other hand, could give you a non-immersion breaking way out of this without needing to rely on the save/load system, the choice, however, would still be there with possibly a different stat-altering consequence.

Basically, I don't have an issue with adding a bit of variety to the series, nothing it does can affect the original games so let's see what Eidos Montreal can bring to the table with their effort. Dishonored showed how you can offer plenty of choices and still make for a fantastic game and while I agree that the stealth option wasn't particularly rewarding (it basically matched my own experience of the game) if they can improve on that with Thief then I think they could be on to a serious winner.

Maximilian

Dropping Stephen Russell is a big mistake in my book.

Mr Freeze

Maximilian wrote: »

Dropping Stephen Russell is a big mistake in my book.

What??????????

Stupid move.

Snowie

Theif was one of the last games I ever played on pc before going console. I really hope they push it, as I enjoyed the games and the complexity of how things were done standing there waiting for the guard It was a game of patience...

It would be nice to see them hold true to the old ways of theif with news ideas Hopefully not to many. Either way I'm glad I've taken up pc gaming again as I think what we've seen so far looks kinda cool granted it just animations but it does have a nice thief like atomosfear in a newer age of graphics.

Sarky

Maximilian wrote: »

Dropping Stephen Russell is a big mistake in my book.

Stops it being a Thief game tbh. It's like Rocksteady getting Gilbert Gottfried to voice Batman.

gizmo

Sarky wrote: »

Stops it being a Thief game tbh. It's like Rocksteady getting Gilbert Gottfried to voice Batman.

Hasn't this been confirmed as a reboot rather than a continuation of the original series? If so then I don't really understand this argument. It's a new take on the series, free from what happened in the original games. With that in mind, getting Russell back would be entirely counter productive.

The Batman reference is an interesting one though because as much as I'll miss Kevin Conroy voicing the character when he eventually retires, I certainly don't want that to mean the end of any form of animated or video game related Batman adventures in the future. The same applies here, it'll be ten years since Garret's last outing by the time Thief 4 comes out after all.

Maximilian

gizmo wrote: »

Hasn't this been confirmed as a reboot rather than a continuation of the original series? If so then I don't really understand this argument. It's a new take on the series, free from what happened in the original games. With that in mind, getting Russell back would be entirely counter productive.

The Batman reference is an interesting one though because as much as I'll miss Kevin Conroy voicing the character when he eventually retires, I certainly don't want that to mean the end of any form of animated or video game related Batman adventures in the future. The same applies here, it'll be ten years since Garret's last outing by the time Thief 4 comes out after all.

Meh. That's like inviting someone over for cake, instead offering them a little sh!t you've taken on a plate and then saying it's rebooted cake.

Yeah. That's what it probably is like.

pixelburp

Well it's certainly a lovely looking CGI movie, which is about all you can say about it really. I'd agree with the theory that the somersaulting is probably an example of the action moves, but so long as they're entirely optional I don't mind. I just hope they don't end up like Deus Ex:HR, and are tedious, unskippable cut-scenes you must watch every time you simply want to smack a Taffer on the head with a blackjack

Whatever about the lack of Garrett's traditional voice actor, are there any ex-Looking Glass employees or bigwigs working on this?

gizmo

pixelburp wrote: »

Whatever about the lack of Garrett's traditional voice actor, are there any ex-Looking Glass employees or bigwigs working on this?

Not as far as I can tell. When Looking Glass folded most of the senior folk went to the likes Ion Storm (Warren Spector), Irrational Games (Ken Levine), Valve (Tom Leonard) and Activision (Tim Stellmach). Harvey Smith, who was the Creative Director on Dishonored used to work in Looking Glass but not on the Thief series.

marshbaboon

They'll probably "reboot" it by adding chest high walls, quick time events and the magical raspberry jam eyes of infinite healing.

gizmo

Thief dev explains why it ditched original Garrett voice actor

"We're absolutely huge fans of Stephen's work on the classic Thief games. But when it came down to it, we ultimately realised that holding onto Steven as the voice of Garrett just for the sake of our nostalgia would be like wanting to cast Sean Connery again in the new 007 movies... It's a nice thought, but honestly, it wouldn't make sense for anything else other than nostalgia."

More analogies!

Mr Freeze

Did the same thing happen with Hitman Absolution, and they weren't getting the guy that previously voiced Agent 47 back?

Then I think they did end up getting him back in the end.

I think its not Thief without Russell.

There will probably be a campaign to get him back, or maybe not, as us Thief gamers are an old bunch now.

Mr Freeze

Well i'm signing up.
http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/eidos-montreal-square-enix-bring-back-stephen-russell-for-thief-4

and dusting off the twitter account that I only used to tweet gearbox about their broken games, to give out to Eidos (for the good that will do).

gizmo

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Well i'm signing up.
http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/eidos-montreal-square-enix-bring-back-stephen-russell-for-thief-4

and dusting off the twitter account that I only used to tweet gearbox about their broken games, to give out to Eidos (for the good that will do).

The Splinter Cell reference in that petition shouldn't really apply here, Blacklist is set a few years after Conviction yet despite Fisher having the same model, he's now voiced by Eric Johnson, a man 30 years younger than Ironside and with a completely different voice.

Garrett does not have a defining face, it is his characteristic voice that makes him who he is.

Don't get me wrong, his voice work was fantastic in the original series however I'd argue that it was as much to do with the writing that made him who he was and I'd be equally worried about a new set of writers tackling the character than the change in actor.

Mr Freeze

gizmo wrote: »

The Splinter Cell reference in that petition shouldn't really apply here, Blacklist is set a few years after Conviction yet despite Fisher having the same model, he's now voiced by Eric Johnson, a man 30 years younger than Ironside and with a completely different voice.

Was never a splinter cell fan! I am a big Thief fan, and the voice is a big loss I feel. I'm sure to Splinter Cell fans, its the same thing.

gizmo wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, his voice work was fantastic in the original series however I'd argue that it was as much to do with the writing that made him who he was and I'd be equally worried about a new set of writers tackling the character than the change in actor.

I agree that the writing is just as important as the voice. But that voice in the trailer was just awfully bland (if that is the final voice). And when I heard of Thief 4 originally, I, like many others, assumed it would be the same voice, never thinking that they could possibly change something so important.

gizmo

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Was never a splinter cell fan! I am a big Thief fan, and the voice is a big loss I feel. I'm sure to Splinter Cell fans, its the same thing.

The changes with Splinter Cell annoy me not just as a fan of the series but as a fan of bloody logic.

Mr Freeze wrote: »

I agree that the writing is just as important as the voice. But that voice in the trailer was just awfully bland (if that is the final voice). And when I heard of Thief 4 originally, I, like many others, assumed it would be the same voice, never thinking that they could possibly change something so important.

An important point, it's not Thief 4 anymore, it's just Thief. If it was Thief 4 then I'd be on your side of the fence 100%.

Mr Freeze

gizmo wrote: »

An important point, it's not Thief 4 anymore, it's just Thief. If it was Thief 4 then I'd be on your side of the fence 100%.

A valid point, but I think it might still be a sequel, has it been 100% confirmed as a reboot yet?

A 4 in the Title or not, it could still a sequel.

He had his mechanical eye in that trailer anyways, so that's one thing that leads me to believe its cannon with the previous games, but they could just pluck that eye out in the opening credits for all I know.

Edit: RE Splinter Cell
Out of curiosity, is the new actor doing a Michael Ironside impression at all or does he sound completely different?