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The Freemasons
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A money making group.Hi Absolam,
So to gain these degrees what do you need to do?
I presume from your name there is some study of hebrew folklore involved. Is this the much guarded "knowledge" we hear so much about?
You need to ask to join / be asked to join the appendant bodies that give those degrees. Some Masons never do, some Masons join some, some join them all. It's more a matter of free time and interest than any other factor. No study of hebrew folklore is involved, or any other folklore come to that. And if there was much guarded knowledge, surely you'd never hear much about it
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A group to make contacts.robroy1234 wrote: »There are three criteria that need to be met:
1. Be a man.
Wimmin! On yer bike!
You don't accept people who were born into slavery? A little elitist no?robroy1234 wrote: »freeborn
Oh and you forget the disabled!"The men made Masons must be freeborn (or no bondmen), of mature age and of good report, hale and sound, not deformed or dismembered at the time of their making".
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Brown Bomber wrote: »Squod if your interested this is good reading. It was intended for internal use within the lodges and was written by Master Mason Benjamin Franklin. I've come to the conclusion that their in no point in dealing with a mason on freemasonry because their is no honesty on their part. The final straw was when Absolam said that Pike is a bit-part player within masonry
ROFL. Oh the stupidity and blindness in what you wrote BB. First of all, American Masonry is it's own entity, and while it's recognised by the Grand Lodge of Ireland and England, they do things very differently as regards their interpretation of ritual and the historical origins of Masonry. As discussed here ad nauseum before, doubtless you saw the last time we discussed Masonry, there's even differences in Ireland between rituals.Brown Bomber wrote: »You can be be blackballed and refused the opportunity to attain the higher levels can you not?
No. No you can't. Stop making things up.Brown Bomber wrote: »The point is that it excludes and discriminates against people BORN with deformities or disabilities not old todgers who develop arthrithis. Again it the reference is to "FREEBORN".
Again, you're someone with no inside knowledge of the craft, you see a word, put two and two together and get twenty two. We use the worn Freeborn because of it's historical references. Just like we use in our ritual the ancient but symbolic death penalties if someone were to let our secrets out. BUT, we stress strongly that things have changed since those some 400 years ago when things meant just that - Freeborn now means that a man is born with the will to be his own person, to strive in life and succeed (Which nearly every person on the planet is born with) - and we also stress that the symbolic penalties have been replaced with real penalties of being turfed out if someone were to commit a crime, or let our secret handshakes/passwords slip.
Despite your frankly childish attempts to link Masonry to works of ill repute, we're a proud organisation. We welcome anyone who wants to join as long as they're willing to let themselves become a better moral person and a more charitable person to all mankind.
Threads like these btw, are fantastic. You don't know how much good you do by raising these clearly fabricated arguments - the average non conspiracy theorist with an open mind who wants to learn about masonry can see through such desparate slurs and ill founded logic. These same boardsies actually then PM us, and ask us about joining. The conspiracy theory forum as far as I can make out must be responsible at this stage for almost a dozen joining our order. It could well be more.
For that Brown Bomber, I thank you
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A group to make contacts.PaintDoctor wrote: »ROFL. Oh the stupidity and blindness in what you wrote BB. First of all, American Masonry is it's own entity, and while it's recognised by the Grand Lodge of Ireland and England, they do things very differently as regards their interpretation of ritual and the historical origins of Masonry. As discussed here ad nauseum before, doubtless you saw the last time we discussed Masonry, there's even differences in Ireland between rituals.
Lovely jubbly, now wtf has that got to do with the section of my post you quoted?
Squod seemed interested in the ancient oringins of freemasonry. It was an authorative masonic source by Benjamin Franklin no less.
That aside it was made quite clear that it was a reprint of James Anderson's work commissioned by The Grand Lodge of London and Westminister (now the governing body of all England & Wales).Anderson was a Freemason, the Master of a Masonic lodge, and a Grand Warden of the Grand Lodge of London and Westminster. He was commissioned in September 1721 by the Grand Lodge to write a history of the Free-Masons, and it was published in 1723 as The Constitutions of the Free-Masons. Anderson's name does not appear on the title page, but his authorship is declared in an appendix.
Now here you are either a) Lying or b) So ignorant of a basic tenet of freemasonry rendering it impossible that you actually are a mason as you claim (meaning you are lying).PaintDoctor wrote: »No. No you can't. Stop making things up.
In summary, you are lying?...Why?PaintDoctor wrote: »Again, you're someone with no inside knowledge of the craft, you see a word, put two and two together and get twenty two. We use the worn Freeborn because of it's historical references. Just like we use in our ritual the ancient but symbolic death penalties if someone were to let our secrets out. BUT, we stress strongly that things have changed since those some 400 years ago when things meant just that - Freeborn now means that a man is born with the will to be his own person, to strive in life and succeed (Which nearly every person on the planet is born with) - and we also stress that the symbolic penalties have been replaced with real penalties of being turfed out if someone were to commit a crime, or let our secret handshakes/passwords slip.
or the non-apologist version:he Old Charges are among the things that are "going on today." Eliminate them from Freemasonry as it now functions and not a subordinate lodge, or a Grand Lodge, or any other regular Masonic body could operate at all; they are to what the Constitution of this nation is to the United States Government, and what its statutes are to every state in the Union. All our constitutions, statutes, laws, rules, by-laws and regulations to some extent or other hark back to the Old Charges, and without them Masonic jurisprudence, or the methods for governing and regulating the legal affairs of the Craft, would be left hanging suspended in the air.
http://www.masonicdictionary.com/charges.html
So does Scientology and other cults.PaintDoctor wrote: »Despite your frankly childish attempts to link Masonry to works of ill repute, we're a proud organisation. We welcome anyone who wants to join as long as they're willing to let themselves become a better moral person and a more charitable person to all mankind.PaintDoctor wrote: »Threads like these btw, are fantastic. You don't know how much good you do by raising these clearly fabricated arguments - the average non conspiracy theorist with an open mind who wants to learn about masonry can see through such desparate slurs and ill founded logic. These same boardsies actually then PM us, and ask us about joining. The conspiracy theory forum as far as I can make out must be responsible at this stage for almost a dozen joining our order. It could well be more.
]For that Brown Bomber, I thank you
That's great. Each to their own and all that. I have nothing against any masons on a personal level and good luck to anyone who does join. Two of my favourite all-time people were masons.
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BTW what slurs have I made?
I've only quoted from masonic sources.0 -
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A group to make contacts.robroy1234 wrote: »Brown Bomber - I appreciate the material that you have put forward and some of it is interesting reading. I am not sure whether you are hostile or supportive of Freemasonry, but that is your choice entirely. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and is free to openly air those opinions, however some people have great difficulty in finding that their opinions and beliefs are not supported by any fact at all. The problem with conspiracy theories are that on the whole some of the issues are plausible, they jump to conclusions and invent links and connections that are not related at all. For example: we as freemasons have been accused of meddling in politics, science, religion, education, finance and in the private lives of people, and despite that fact that even though men who are freemasons work or have interests in those areas - they do so in their capacity outside of freemasonry - they do not speak for freemasonry in such matters. The Grand Lodge of Ireland has never and will never do discuss or produce anything concerning those subjects. As for the conspiracy theorists that we are involved in plots to create a new world order, that is extremely far fetched. You could however look at certain sites such as the Catholic Social Teaching website and you will see the subjects and areas that the church meddles in, including politics, education, finance, etc., All denominations of christianity and different religions do that to a greater or lesser degree.
As for words, signs and grips, these are ancient methods of identification of fellow members of the craft and harks back to the days when craftsmen of the guilds could not read and write, and did not carry "union cards" to show their membership. But, knowledge of these words, signs and grips and exposure of them in public by non-masons with the belief that in doing so that we would no longer be a viable organisation, forget one important factor - what is referred to as the mystic tie is not a word, sign or grip, but the bond of friendship and brotherhood in the fraternity.
As for being Free, this is in reference to that to join any group or organisation you have to do so on your own free will and accord, you cannot be forced or coerced into joining. Considering that the majority of people are born into a church, vote in elections by following family preferences, participate or support sport teams based on tribal loyalty and other such limitations placed on them beyond their own personal control.
Without Maim or defect, is also a medieval concept that harks to actual construction of buildings and alludes to that a skilled craftsman is able and capable to perform his duties in safety to himself and others. This at the time when there were no health and safety, and no compensation schemes for injuries and death. As with all guilds craftsmen set up their own schemes for look out for each other and this included a system akin to health and safety, and the promise to care for craftsmen maim due to accidents and to care for their widows and children if accidents proved fatal. As for disabilities as such, we are speculative masons and not operative masons and therefore men who satisfy the requirements of entry and are disabled, are not prohibited from joining.
Thank you for the considered an non-aggressive response. It's appreciated. I think I should point out that my interest in masonry is out of curiosity; it has a rich history and the fact that much of it is concealed it has taken almost mystical propotions based on a smorgasbord of truth, hearsay, myths and legends, from the outside at least makes it fascinating to me.
It's interesting to me to speculate on alternative history, but I am aware it is speculation. The problem here is that my speculation involves other people here now so if I've offended you I apologise.
The reality I am sure is much more mundane, dogmatic, and (no offense) a little silly - grown men playing dress up bowing to their worshipful master etc.
However, the masonic network is global and hugely influential and the potential for subversiveness is real imo. Masonic connections to P-2, The Illuminati, French Revolution, Bolshevik Revolution, Alta Vendita, The Klu Klux Klan and much more is a testament to this. The event which triggered the First World War - the assasination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand was a masonic conpsiracy, carried out by masons for example.0 -
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