The Freemasons

robroy1234

Brown Bomber - you seem to have taken the handle of the Master thing the wrong way, as in terms of our obligation we pledge that our allegiance is not contrary to our position in society, our obligation as men to our family, and to the state/nation in that we reside in. Nor is freemasonry at odds with any religion we choose to believe in. Now, you bring up the leaders of our state in Kneeling in front of a masonic altar, firstly, that is only done in initiation and raising ceremonies by the candidate and only for the obligation and nothing else, and secondly, the heads of state here in Ireland are not in any masonic lodge that I am aware off. In fact the Taoiseach is a regular church goer, but you are not bringing up the role of the catholic church in his decision making.

In stark contrast to the UK, you will find that we preserve the democratic model much more strongly than our British counterparts. Considering that every public servant in the armed forces, police, civil servants and politicians swear loyalty to the crown above and beyond that off service and loyalty to the people of Britain.

Even if the Taoiseach was a freemason, the decisions made by himself and the government are totally separate and independent of the Grand Lodge of Ireland. We have always made it clear that as an organisation we are aloof and distant from any discussions on politics, religion and economics - domestic and international.

hooradiation

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Brown Bomber wrote: »

Of course not. The AA example is another false comparison. Look I don't know what to say to you here if you can't differentiate between AA and the Freemasons.
I really don't get where you are coming from. Of course unrelated incidents can or can't be an affront to democracy it depends on their own individual merits. Just because a word is common in two seperate scenarios it doesn't mean they automatically have the same results. I would suggest we both have our wires crossed here somewhere.

Let me make this simple. I am looking to see if there is any consistency in what you're saying.

You've made it clear that you find someone being a Freemason AND being a public servant an affront to democracy. I've tried to get you to explain if it's an more general, that having a public servant who's the submissive in a BDSM relationship would also be an affront (seeing as under the concept of TPE they'd literally be at the command of another in all aspects of their life) or one who has been part of an organisation who's business is secret would count, like the AA or indeed with a certain military background.

But you seem to be insistent on special pleading that amounts to "only the masons count" in these scenarios. Which, i suppose is fine it's your opinion and you're entitled to it - but i can't find it be a credible one.

robroy1234

I think that what Bomb Bomber may be getting confused about is that he deems the term Worshipful Master is not confined to the inner workings of the lodge and that he then takes the title and position outside of the lodge. Privilage of Rank that exists outside of a lodge has no bearing inside the lodge, the same applies to the position of officers in the lodge as to outside the lodge. To many people this sounds absurd, as we are very much aware that people tend to carry their rank beyond the confines of their domain - such as British royalty and aristocracy in visiting abroad, or that of Reverand or Doctor.,

Brown Bomber - It will be worthwhile to note that as a Worshipful Master assumes authority within the lodge, outside of the lodge meeting he is just an ordinary mason as are the others.

SIR PEADO BAILOUT

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Its the Freak Masons and always will be

saatana

Oops looks like the guy arrested in connection with the massacre in and near Oslo is a freemason. No tarring with the same brush now everyone.

http://www.expressen.se/

robroy1234

I am in no way associated with any right-wing political organisation, or any political organisation whatsoever, nor am I a religious fanatic. The rantings that the fella was going on about runs contrary not only to freemasonry, but to any moral and ethical fibre in society. But, if you feel that you want to tar us all with the same brush that is entirely up to you. But, whatever made this fella do such a thing - it wasn't at all masonic.

ed2hands

robroy1234 wrote: »

I am in no way associated with any right-wing political organisation, or any political organisation whatsoever, nor am I a religious fanatic. The rantings that the fella was going on about runs contrary not only to freemasonry, but to any moral and ethical fibre in society. But, if you feel that you want to tar us all with the same brush that is entirely up to you. But, whatever made this fella do such a thing - it wasn't at all masonic.

A dignified response and hats off. Lets not tolerate any kind of hatred from what happened yesterday. Hopefuly what he did will backfire on his motives and bring people together rather than the opposite.

trigger78

robroy1234 wrote: »

I am in no way associated with any right-wing political organisation, or any political organisation whatsoever, nor am I a religious fanatic. The rantings that the fella was going on about runs contrary not only to freemasonry, but to any moral and ethical fibre in society. But, if you feel that you want to tar us all with the same brush that is entirely up to you. But, whatever made this fella do such a thing - it wasn't at all masonic.

I want to join tryed emailing but no reply what else can I do

robroy1234

Actually, he wasn't at all a freemason. He stated on his facebook interests Bodybuilding and freemasonry, and there is a picture of him wearing an apron, but he also had pictures of himself in a military divers outfit with sniper rifle and a US military uniform with medals. This fella is a fantasticist - but with right-wing political and religious fanaticism - a very dangerous fantasticist.

robroy1234

Trigger - where do you live?

trigger78

robroy1234 wrote: »

Trigger - where do you live?

I live near bray

squod

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robroy1234 wrote: »

Actually, he wasn't at all a freemason. He stated on his facebook interests Bodybuilding and freemasonry, and there is a picture of him wearing an apron, but he also had pictures of himself in a military divers outfit with sniper rifle and a US military uniform with medals. This fella is a fantasticist - but with right-wing political and religious fanaticism - a very dangerous fantasticist.

I take it you're a freemason.:rolleyes:

robroy1234

Squod - yes I am a freemason. I have no interest in politics, I don't take religion seriously, I have a liberal view on immigration and emmigration, I have an aversion to guns and violence. I am also an athlete and a former friend and rival of mine took EPO many years ago - ergo, being tarred with the same brush you can also believe that I am also a drug cheat.

Trigger - the e-mail address to the provincial grand lodge is: wdv@eircom.net but we don't meet during the summer months and we return to the lodge meetings in September. Let me know if you still have any problems.

squod

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robroy1234 wrote: »

Squod - yes I am a freemason. I have no interest in politics, I don't take religion seriously,

Then why get involved in a cult? Lookat, freemasonry has been covered many times on threads like these. What you said was.....

robroy1234 wrote: »

Actually, he wasn't at all a freemason

Dunno how you figure that. I thought membership was private unless you chose to share.

robroy1234 wrote: »

He stated on his facebook interests Bodybuilding and freemasonry,

See?

robroy1234 wrote: »

The rantings that the fella was going on about runs contrary not only to freemasonry, but to any moral and ethical fibre in society. But, if you feel that you want to tar us all with the same brush that is entirely up to you. But, whatever made this fella do such a thing - it wasn't at all masonic.

How so? Are you telling me all Freemasons fit with your outlook? Or are you trying to convince me that freemansonry is ''right and good''?

robroy1234 wrote: »

The rantings that the fella was going on about runs contrary not only to freemasonry

Freemasonry is itself ''contrary''.

Run_to_da_hills

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Freemasons: One of my favourites.

robroy1234

Squod,

you can believe in whatever you want to believe in, you are a grown person. Your views in whatever they are have no effect or bearing on my own personal choices and whatever affliations I choose to have.

If you have an axe to grind, then go away and grind it, and leave people whose business is no matter for you alone.

Absolam

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squod wrote: »

Then why get involved in a cult? Lookat, freemasonry has been covered many times on threads like these. What you said was.....

Dunno how you figure that. I thought membership was private unless you chose to share.

See?

How so? Are you telling me all Freemasons fit with your outlook? Or are you trying to convince me that freemansonry is ''right and good''?

Freemasonry is itself ''contrary''.

Same, eh.. stuff, different day, eh squod? You've already had your arguments knocked back numerous times... but trying to hang them anew on a tragedy like this is an absolute low.

Richard tea

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Oh come on. Rob, Absolam I bet you wish freemason threads could be locked and deleted. Prehaps you could request this from the mods;)

Prehaps you should both stay away from freemason threads

Priori

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saatana wrote:

Oops looks like the guy arrested in connection with the massacre in and near Oslo is a freemason. No tarring with the same brush now everyone.

http://www.expressen.se/

I'm sure there will be plenty of tar where it doesn't belong unfortunately. :rolleyes: One of the mottos of freemasonry is to make good men better. Anders Behring Breivik is a twisted and misguided individual, certainly not a good man to begin with!

Torakx

I see masons as the counter to the big religious organisations.
Back when masons and illuminatti were getting started most of politics was entrwenched in religious superstition.
Now i see we have advanced in some areas of society and no longer hold alot of this superstition.
Maybe in part thats thanks to the work masons have done to fight religion.
Maybe we just learned from science.
Either way i now see masons as the nowaday equivalant of those old religious leaders on the global stage.
Sure the pope still has alot of power to throw around but over in the far west religion is being broken into small factions and not really organised to go global like masonry is.
Or as likely considering the masons strategies to be as profitable or powerfull.
So if there is an enemy of freedom its no longer the churches powermongering and directing governments.
Its more than likely secret societies who enroll many powerfull allies to their ranks and direct governments in my oppinion.

ps nice video RFTH, damn! shakira is one hell of a distraction haha.
All i made out between those kinky moves was the M shape with their hands.

squod

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Absolam wrote: »

You've already had your arguments knocked back numerous times..

We had a discussion about freemasonry before. Turns out I was right. Coming back and denying it, hoping someone forgot?

robroy1234 wrote: »

Squod,
Your views in whatever they are have no effect or bearing on my own personal choices and whatever affliations I choose to have.

Not here to change your mind. Too late for that!

Brown Bomber

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Torakx wrote: »

I see masons as the counter to the big religious organisations.

I disagree. I see them as rival religious organisation.

I'd like the views of the resident freemasons on this, especially the regalia, colours, badges and so on. These photos were included in his manifesto and his facebook page set up specifically to be used by the media:

squod

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Brown Bomber wrote: »

I disagree. I see them as rival religious organisation.

The religious opposition I would have thought.

Torakx

religious: relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity.

Ok maybe they are religious.
I just see them as the new age religion so to speak if i must admit its a religion.
I tend to think through history they have been against the larger churches that ran countries and caused wars and have been able to replace them with their own 21st century form of the old religions.

Since humans have evolved past believing a man(priest) is able to communicate with god etc at least alot of humans,i can see more and more a gap appearing and needing to be filled.

I think freemasonry is trying to achieve this through changing society and culture to suit that end and regain the control that the churches used to have over society, but obviously covertly as we in general have progressed passed,"do as we say or god will kill you" type of coercion.

The new bible is television, propoganda, terrorism, restrictions and social programming.

hooradiation

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Richard tea wrote: »

Oh come on. Rob, Absolam I bet you wish freemason threads could be locked and deleted. Prehaps you could request this from the mods;)

Prehaps you should both stay away from freemason threads

I would have though having actual Freemasons on a thread about the Freemasons would be a good thing...

Torakx

It is if you can garner information by what they are not saying lol
And then you would probably need them to be of the 33rd degree.
Even then it could be said those masons are more or less innocent of any future plans towards a global governing body.
It may just be there is an illuminatti type inner group hiding amongst masons.
So unless you one of them,i dont really expect to get much tasty gossip

Richard tea

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hooradiation wrote: »

I would have though having actual Freemasons on a thread about the Freemasons would be a good thing...

It has its pros and cons

Absolam

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squod wrote: »

We had a discussion about freemasonry before. Turns out I was right. Coming back and denying it, hoping someone forgot?

I recall the discussion, but can't seem to find any evidence of you being right... perhaps someone deleted it in order to preserve the conspiracy
As I recall you were unable to back up your assertions that Freemasonry is a satanic cult?

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I disagree. I see them as rival religious organisation. I'd like the views of the resident freemasons on this, especially the regalia, colours, badges and so on. These photos were included in his manifesto and his facebook page set up specifically to be used by the media

BB you've discussed your idea of Freemasonry as a religion ad nauseum; it just doesn't wash. Freemasons around the world remain faithful members of disparate religions at the same time as being Freemasons; what religion allows its' members to worship other gods in other faiths?
And... (I really want you to know this is killing me BB) you may have found a nugget of truth in all your craziness. It does appear that Anders Breivik was a Freemason. The Sovereign Grand Master of the Norwegian Order of Freemasons has posted the following notice on their website:
"I am appalled by the horrible atrocity that was committed in the government district and at the Utøya island, says the Sovereign Grand Master of the Norwegian Order of Freemasons, Ivar A. Skar.
We are filled with mourning and compassion for those who have been affected and their relatives.
It has appeared in the media that the accused has been a member of the Norwegian Order of Freemasons.
He has now been excluded - the exclusion immediately effective.
The exclusion reflects that the acts he is accused of having carried out, and the values that appear to have motivated them, are completely incompatible with what we stand for as an Order.
We build our activity on Christian and humanistic values and want our members to contribute to the promotion of charity, peace and goodness among all people.
The police will of course get all the help and information we can give to contribute to the investigation."
http://www.frimurer.no/

I'm sure that'll kick off all sorts... but apparently it's true.

Torakx; the majority of Freemasons are religious, belief in a divine being is a prerequisite for joining. That tends to exclude athiests, and whilst some agnostics are comfortable with it, the majority of Freemasons are members of mainstream monotheistic faiths.

squod

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Absolam wrote: »

I recall the discussion, but can't seem to find any evidence of you being right... perhaps someone deleted it in order to preserve the conspiracy
As I recall you were unable to back up your assertions that Freemasonry is a satanic cult?

If you say so. Not my soul on the line.

Absolam wrote: »

.................Christian and humanistic values.........

Enough !

Absolam

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Richard tea wrote: »

Oh come on. Rob, Absolam I bet you wish freemason threads could be locked and deleted. Prehaps you could request this from the mods;) Prehaps you should both stay away from freemason threads

If we wanted that we'd just do it, we are the New World Order running everything from the shadows after all

Richard tea wrote: »

It has its pros and cons

I apologise, I know we sometimes bring the flights of fantasy back to earth, and that's no fun for the CTers, but I like being able to answer questions from people with a genuine interest in or curiosity about Freemasonry. And baiting the crazies can be fun too.