T4 Terminator Salvation: The Future Begins

Mitch Connor

DaveyGem wrote: »

iv just seen it, and spent the last few hours or so going over the events of the 4 films and trying to come up with a reasonable time-line, ive discovered its impossible i just kept getting stuck on the whole Reese/Connor anomoly thing.


The movie itself was not all that bad, it was never going to be a futuristic Saving Private Ryan type thing, but it worked ok.

The one thing that pissed me off was the way

the prisoners all escaped at the end! WTF was a helicopter doin in Skynetville, I know Wright turned off one of the exterior defences but what about the T600's wandering around the place?

I knew going in that the reese thing was going to be addressed so i just decided to accept what was in front of me, without thinking about it to much.

Funnily, my gf who hasn seen any terminator flicks turned to me when reese first appeared and said "How can he Connor's dad he only looks twelve?" Too fcukin right!

Cause in T1 its 2027 isn't it? So Kyle would be 9 years older when he is sent back.

My main issue is

why do Skynet have him on top of their kill list? He is a nobody - why would they be after him at all.

shenanigans1982

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Cause in T1 its 2027 isn't it? So Kyle would be 9 years older when he is sent back.

My main issue is

why do Skynet have him on top of their kill list? He is a nobody - why would they be after him at all.

Wouldn't they have known that he went back in time and is John Connor's father?

I went to see it last night and enjoyed it for what it was. Some of the Special effects looked dodgy but for the most part were ok. Thought Sam Worthington played his part well other than the varying accent. I would have liked to have seen more aspects of an all out war between Man and the Machines but maybe if there is another movie that will be shown then.

My main issue was with the T-800's, in the original Terminator it was a very slow moving machine which would have been produced in 2029 yet in T4 one produced in 2016 has the ability to run and jump. Also why does the synthetic human skin manage to stop them from moving robotically.

BlitzKrieg

My main issue was with the T-800's, in the original Terminator it was a very slow moving machine which would have been produced in 2029 yet in T4 one produced in 2016 has the ability to run and jump

???

THe T-800 has always been able to run and jump

monkeyfudge

Ah yes.. the fabled parkour scene from Terminator 1.

Otacon

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

???

THe T-800 has always been able to run and jump

He ran after them out of the Tech Noir club, jumped onto a car and dived onto a windshield!

shenanigans1982

Otacon wrote: »

He ran after them out of the Tech Noir club, jumped onto a car and dived onto a windshield!

My bad, I have not seen the movie in a while but never remember any scenes with him running or jumping.

A Primal Nut

MooseJam wrote: »

There's no reason why there couldn't be 2 John Connors - the first "original" John Connors in the first timeline was not fathered by Kyle Reese , he discovers a terminator is being sent back in time so he sends Reese who shags his mother, Sarah Connor has heard how her son is a future leader so she brings up the boy as John Connor and trains him etc, but he isn't actually the John Connor who sent Reese back but he's brought up to be him anyway, how does that sound

Unlikely. There is one timeline. Kyle Rees fathers John Conners who later sends kyle back in time.

Basically, we have to get used to the fact that just like the present can change the future, the present can also change the past, and, as Einstein said, time isn't linear. There is one pre-determined timeline.

See it all makes sense.:pac:

I actually half expected the film to end with John sending Kyle back in time and saying "good luck, and don't forget to shag my mother while your there."

A Primal Nut

I actually loved this film, thought having Kyle Rees as a major character was great (although probably confusing for anyone who hadn't seen the previous films) and thought the robots were **** cool.

The one problem I had was how easily John Connor walked in and rescued all the prisoners and got them back out again without any robots noticing or walking around. Apart from the final battle with a robot, but that wasn't directly to do with saving the prisoners.

Naikon wrote: »

Also, why didn't they kill Reese near the start? This would have
removed the need to lure John Connor into the Skynet base.

John Connor had to go to the Skynet Base to rescue all the prisoners, not just Kyle Reese. I doubt the terminators knew who the importance of Reese - also they probably wanted to lure John Connor into the Skynet base.

And I'd imagine the noises they made were machine parts moving.

Duggy747

Ahoy chaps, back from the dead I am. Thought I'd mark my ressurection with my views on Terminator Salvation which I saw last night.

Honestly, I was pleasantly suprised! It wasn't great, hell some bits in it were completely horrible diabetes-inducing cheese moments but it did at least do the franchise more justice than piss all over it like T3 did. Overall though I loved the visual style and the action set pieces were pretty good though the supposed man vs. machines war sequence was waaaaaay to short. The only memorable bit I remember from it was the continuious helichopter scene.

Beyond all the niggly bits of plot holes and hiccups of horrible dialogue the bit I was most disappointed with was

The much talked about Arnie cameo. His face was in it for no more than a collection of roughly 6 seconds!! Though I suppose it was nice to (sorta) see him again.

Next time round McG needs to get some proper writers on board. The film ended too complete, there was nothing to imply why we should see the next one, no cliffhanger of sorts. Plus a lot more of Arnie needs to be in it if they are to capture him, reprogram him and send him back after they send back Kyle Reese.

3 outta 5 for me anyways.

speedboatchase

A Primal Nut wrote: »

I doubt the terminators knew who the importance of Reese - also they probably wanted to lure John Connor into the Skynet base.

But they did as they

had him top of their "kill list". Which was impossible since no time travel has occured in the time line yet. They somehow knew he would go back in time or that he was Connors father even though Reese himself didn't (and doesn't) know this. Yet they didn't kill him?!

Mr Freeze

speedboatchase wrote: »

But they did as they

had him top of their "kill list". Which was impossible since no time travel has occured in the time line yet. They somehow knew he would go back in time or that he was Connors father even though Reese himself didn't (and doesn't) know this. Yet they didn't kill him?!

It was Skynet that originally built the time travel device to send the T-800 back to kill Sarah Conner. The resistance then broke in and used the device to send Reese back. That my understanding from T1 anyways.

So If Skynet knows Reese is John Connors father, it shouldn't bother inventing the time travel device at all...ie No Reese going back in time, No John Connor.

Cactus Col

I've always thought that Kyle Reese never was the father of John Connor. Instead it was that other douche she was seeing that stood her up. Like many other single mother's who have slept about, she chooses the more romantic option for claiming the baby's father, the soldier from the future who saved her life, rather than the truth, some regular schlub who couldn't even be bothered to turn up for dates.

It's obvious, John Connor looks nothing like Kyle Reese.

And that explanation clears up a lot of plot holes. Just because everyone in the film believes Reese to be the father, doesn't make it so.

Mitch Connor

shenanigans1982 wrote: »

Wouldn't they have known that he went back in time and is John Connor's father?

I went to see it last night and enjoyed it for what it was. Some of the Special effects looked dodgy but for the most part were ok. Thought Sam Worthington played his part well other than the varying accent. I would have liked to have seen more aspects of an all out war between Man and the Machines but maybe if there is another movie that will be shown then.

My main issue was with the T-800's, in the original Terminator it was a very slow moving machine which would have been produced in 2029 yet in T4 one produced in 2016 has the ability to run and jump. Also why does the synthetic human skin manage to stop them from moving robotically.

How? It hadn't happened yet - unless John Connor goes round, like a moron, telling everyone.

I agree about the T-800. Marcus is far more advanced as an 'infiltration unit' yet comes before the T-800 and they still make the T-800. Doesn't make sense at all to me.

The only explanation is one that I read a while back - Skynet, from 2029, sent terminators back to 2015 or something like that and gave the older version of themselves updated tech and information. That would explain Marcus, and would explain why they were trying (and not trying) to kill Kyle Reece. However, at no point is this mentioned in the movie.

speedboatchase

Can we just accept the plot is completely riddled with holes? My brain hurts

Cactus Col

Mitch Connor wrote: »

How? It hadn't happened yet - unless John Connor goes round, like a moron, telling everyone.

I agree about the T-800. Marcus is far more advanced as an 'infiltration unit' yet comes before the T-800 and they still make the T-800. Doesn't make sense at all to me.

The only explanation is one that I read a while back - Skynet, from 2029, sent terminators back to 2015 or something like that and gave the older version of themselves updated tech and information. That would explain Marcus, and would explain why they were trying (and not trying) to kill Kyle Reece. However, at no point is this mentioned in the movie.

a

But wasn't Marcus an experiment, a hybrid Human / Machine. More like a borg. Obviously, when he turned, it was a failed experiment. So Skynet go back to the Terminator drawing board

BlitzKrieg

The only explanation is one that I read a while back - Skynet, from 2029, sent terminators back to 2015 or something like that and gave the older version of themselves updated tech and information. That would explain Marcus, and would explain why they were trying (and not trying) to kill Kyle Reece. However, at no point is this mentioned in the movie.

Yes that was something that alot of us had assumed if you look back to earlier discussion about the film on this thread, but it seems they decided to change

The scientist at the start from being a skynet agent from the future to a woman dying of cancer

There are alot of arguments and discussions over the timeline, is it multiple timelines, is it one single timeline etc.

Sarah Connor Chronicles sort of made it more confusing they threw in loads of new elements.

The best defence for skynet knowing about kyle reese etc is to assume that the T-X which was involved in judgement day (ala T3) uploaded key information about the resistance into skynet as it became self aware.

But seeing as they changed skynet's T3 origin from *unknown force from the internet* back to a cyberdine creation sort of puts water on that theory.

Even more so if the machines have access to all that the T-X knew then it would be suffice to assume that they would know as I already pointed out that the track record for their t-800 killing kyle reese or john connor is pretty poor.

paulieeye

speedboatchase wrote: »

Can we just accept the plot is completely riddled with holes? My brain hurts

one more..the robots bikes have USB ports nice and handy for the humans

BlitzKrieg

how else will a daddy robot and a mommy robot make babies?

KerranJast

My thinking on why Skynet targets Kyle Reese: All of Sarah & Kyle's original run in with the LAPD would have been on record along with Kyle's video interview by the two cops in the station before the Arnie Terminator killed them all in 1984. Glimpses of this were seen in T2 when Dr. Silberman played them back to Sarah. Couple all that with police incident reports from the destruction of Cyberdyne and Sarah's escape from the mental institution and you can see how the future Skynet (which according to T3 was rooted throughout the Internet prior to being activated by General Brewster) would have deduced that Kyle Reese was an important figure to future John Connor.

It is most likely that future John Connor would not have sent some random grunt back in time to protect his mother. He would have sent his most trusted and capable lieutenant. Skynet didn't know Reese is Connors father because that was never mentioned by Reese or Sarah in 1984. It would have deduced though that John Connor would want to protect Kyle Reese so that he would be able to send him back to save Sarah and hence himself. Obviously Skynet couldn't fathom just how important Reese actually was.

In summary Skynet in 2018 knows that in the future Connor will ultimately lead the humans to victory over the machines precipitating Skynet to send back the original T-800, the T-1000 and lastly T-X to try an alter the timeline. It knows he will send back, that he HAS to send back Kyle Reese and so is actively looking for Reese as a younger man when he will be easier to capture.

Mr Freeze

paulieeye wrote: »

one more..the robots bikes have USB ports nice and handy for the humans

That was brutal bad!!!

monkeyfudge

What if the T800 had been successful in the first film and had killed Sarah Conner? John Conner wouldn't exist then and Skynet would have no reason to send a T800 back in time to kill his mother.

The whole time travel plot fails if you don't allow for multiple time lines being created each time someone travels back in time.

MooseJam

The original skynet killed itself by sending t-800 back in time
The second skynet killed itself by sending t-1000 back in time

you would think it would stop sending t's back in time

KerranJast

MooseJam wrote: »

The original skynet killed itself by sending t-800 back in time
The second skynet killed itself by sending t-1000 back in time

you would think it would stop sending t's back in time

It killed itself because they failed. Skynet lost the war. Sending them back was last resort. If either had succeeded Skynet would have won.

monkeyfudge

MooseJam wrote: »

The original skynet killed itself by sending t-800 back in time
The second skynet killed itself by sending t-1000 back in time

you would think it would stop sending t's back in time

Well in the first film anyway it was an aboslute last ditch effort by Skynet. The humans thanks to John Conner had already won.

paulieeye

monkeyfudge wrote: »

What if the T800 had been successful in the first film and had killed Sarah Conner? John Conner wouldn't exist then and Skynet would have no reason to send a T800 back in time to kill his mother.

The whole time travel plot fails if you don't allow for multiple time lines being created each time someone travels back in time.

Assuming this was true. Skynet would see no benefit from Sarah Connor being killed. Their timeline would continue on unchanged with John Connor existing. It would be the alternate timeline that got the benefits

monkeyfudge

paulieeye wrote: »

Assuming this was true. Skynet would see no benefit from Sarah Connor being killed. Their timeline would continue on unchanged with John Connor existing. It would be the alternate timeline that got the benefits

Yeah. But Skynet is clearly a dick.

MooseJam

KerranJast wrote: »

It killed itself because they failed. Skynet lost the war. Sending them back was last resort. If either had succeeded Skynet would have won.

not exactly true - when the t-800 had been blown up by Reese but was still chasing Connor, if it had caught and killed her it would have succeeded in it's mission however it is highly likely that cyberdyne systems would have acquired it given it had no legs and it's r&d would have gone off in new directions killing the first skynet

BlitzKrieg

Skynet would see no benefit from Sarah Connor being killed. Their timeline would continue on unchanged with John Connor existing. It would be the alternate timeline that got the benefits

Think about like a machine though...

monkeyfudge

What was Skynet planning to do with itself anyway if it had managed to wipe out all the humans? Just sit about doing sums?

The Harlon Ellison story "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream" covers that... the Alied Mastercomputer realises almost too late how pointless it's existence would be if it wipes out all the humans and so keeps 5 people alive and torments them endlessly.

It's also worth nothing that one of Ellison's episodes of the Outer Limits was very similiar to the original Terminator plot and they had to settle out of court with him.

MooseJam

Why even bother with Connors - think outside the box , send a few t-800's back 200,000 years or so , before homo sapiens arrived on the scene and start a machine civilization unbothered