T4 Terminator Salvation: The Future Begins

joe123

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Ever hear of the original rumoured ending? It flies in the face of the mythology of Terminator and spits on it. How surprising is it that the guys who came up with that ending are the same guys who wrote Catwoman, a film that fans refer to as CINO (Catwoman in name only). These guys had no regard for the source material in regards to Catwoman and Terminator Salvation. McG should have realised that and demand a rewrite. Instead what we end up with is a muddled piece of film torn between what Brancato & Ferris wrote and what Nolan wrote.

What was the rumoured ending?

speedboatchase

The original ending was NOT a rumour, it was in the script and ready to go until it was leaked, met with huge disapproval and WB re-tooled the entire third act. In the ending

"At the end of the movie John Connor (Christian Bale) is fighting a T800 model 101 and loses. He dies and the top resistance people come up with a plan to help the resistance keep fighting on. The resistance feels that it’s important to keep the image or idea that John Connor is still alive so the resistance keeps going. So they rip off Marcus’ skin and put John Connor’s on the skeleton so now Marcus is John Connor.”

Anyways gotta applause Cracked.com, this is a great pisstake of the films script

http://www.cracked.com/article_17454_terminator-salvation-if-they-left-out-bull****.html

^ You can guess what the **** are for so just manually enter the link

SoupyNorman

And another thing!

When JC did the wily coyote move on the robo-bike, hot wired it and then proceeded to ride it just like your normal everyday honda50 I lol'd...that kind of lol when you look around in disbelief making sure that the ridiculousness was being witnessed by others.

I mean FOR FUKS SAKE...Skynet go build Terminator bikes that that are human user-friendly. It would have been 'slightly' more plausible if the bikes had Terminators riding them at least you can just about justify handle bars.

What a crap film, with absolutely zero redeeming features.

KerranJast

SoupyNorman wrote: »

What a crap film, with absolutely zero redeeming features.

1) The dystopian landscape. Very Fallout 3 and I liked it.
2) The characters of Marcus Wright and Kyle Reese. Very well acted by Worthington and Yelchin respectively.
3) The brief appearance of the Governator. Yes the overall fight was a bit naff and they should just have had Marcus fight the T-800 for longer instead of Connor implausibly taking it on in hand to hand combat. That said the CG was very well done and it reinforced how much old school Arnies physique was so much of the menace of that character.
4) The radio pieces from Connor geeing up the disparate Resistance fighters. There were a few brief glimpses of why the humans will follow Connor in the prolonged offensive against Skynet. Not enough for my liking I must admit though.
5) You Could Be Mine and Connors hacking work. The usual lines "I'll be back", "Come with me.." etc are too corny at this stage but I thought the use of the music and Connor hacking various Skynet stuff nicely tied him back to Eddie Furlong in T2. Plus you can't beat Classic GNR. Also the use of Alice in Chains was really well done. Nicely set up a brief poignant scene for Marcus (his dead brother etc).
6) Linda Hamiliton's voice on tape. I'd have loved to have a dream sequence or some kind of flashback with her in it but the brief bit she was used in was good.

SoupyNorman

KerranJast wrote: »

1) The dystopian landscape. Very Fallout 3 and I liked it.
2) The characters of Marcus Wright and Kyle Reese. Very well acted by Worthington and Yelchin respectively.
3) The brief appearance of the Governator. Yes the overall fight was a bit naff and they should just have had Marcus fight the T-800 for longer instead of Connor implausibly taking it on in hand to hand combat. That said the CG was very well done and it reinforced how much old school Arnies physique was so much of the menace of that character.
4) The radio pieces from Connor geeing up the disparate Resistance fighters. There were a few brief glimpses of why the humans will follow Connor in the prolonged offensive against Skynet. Not enough for my liking I must admit though.
5) You Could Be Mine and Connors hacking work. The usual lines "I'll be back", "Come with me.." etc are too corny at this stage but I thought the use of the music and Connor hacking various Skynet stuff nicely tied him back to Eddie Furlong in T2. Plus you can't beat Classic GNR. Also the use of Alice in Chains was really well done. Nicely set up a brief poignant scene for Marcus (his dead brother etc).
6) Linda Hamiliton's voice on tape. I'd have loved to have a dream sequence or some kind of flashback with her in it but the brief bit she was used in was good.

...um yeah! Like I said above.

Langer Dan

Earra it was grand. Nothing spectacular but a lot better than you would have expected from McG. It zipped along and was watchable, i'd give it 3/5.

lostexpectation

great escape rip off

apocalypse now rip off

terminator rip off

what film is the ' i can be any face you like' from ?

lostexpectation

empire gave it a 4

sorry run of the mill ain't good it enough
they called it fun!
who wants fun?

the determination in t1 and t2 is fun to watch.

FrostyJack

Saw this last night and quite enjoyed, a millions things wrong with it, but the positives make up for it. 90% of the bad review here are from people comparing it to T1 and T2 as if they were master pieces, they had equally the same amount of plot holes and gaffs, Transformers had even a million more than they did, yet the rose tinted brigade (seems to be the same people all the time) over look all these for some reason ("it was better in my day"). As an action film (like ALL Terminators are) it was was good, if you want drama, conversation and realism look else where.

Magic Eight Ball

What I don’t understand is, Terminator 3 being the complete piece of ****e that it was, why they would let the same hacks who wrote that write this one as well?? Didn’t anyone learn a lesson first time around?

The same duo who also wrote ‘Catwoman’ no less... I rest my case!

Let’s face it, the reason Cameron never made another Terminator movie was because the story arc had ended, the characters had come full circle.
Terminator 3, Terminator Salvation and the TV story only serve to cheapen the last scenes of T2.

As much as I want to see more terminator movies, sometimes it’s just better to leave things alone.

BlitzKrieg

FrostyJack wrote: »

. 90% of the bad review here are from people comparing it to T1 and T2 as if they were master pieces, they had equally the same amount of plot holes and gaffs,

actually most people seemed to have (wrongly?) compared it to star trek, I'd like to hear these many many plothholes in T1 and T2 that are on par with salvation? Also regardless of plotholes, T1 and T2 were better made films, better script, better acting (shockingly) better action set pieces, better editing and better directing

Transformers had even a million more than they did,

preaching to the choir, I disliked Transformers quite a bit.

yet the rose tinted brigade (seems to be the same people all the time) over look all these for some reason ("it was better in my day").

yeah *my day* being a couple of weeks back when I saw Star Trek, or any recent film that I enjoyed. As much as people hate the rose tinted brigade, I hate the people who accuse every criticism of being a rose tinted criticism. Grow up.

As an action film (like ALL Terminators are) it was was good, if you want drama, conversation and realism look else where.

Yes because the overstretched pointless action scenes (no tension, no resolution) where the best we have seen in recent years. As an action film this was horribly bland and unexciting.


Pointless is the quite simply the best description of this film.

humanji

speedboatchase wrote: »

The original ending was NOT a rumour, it was in the script and ready to go until it was leaked, met with huge disapproval and WB re-tooled the entire third act. In the ending

"At the end of the movie John Connor (Christian Bale) is fighting a T800 model 101 and loses. He dies and the top resistance people come up with a plan to help the resistance keep fighting on. The resistance feels that it’s important to keep the image or idea that John Connor is still alive so the resistance keeps going. So they rip off Marcus’ skin and put John Connor’s on the skeleton so now Marcus is John Connor.”

Anyways gotta applause Cracked.com, this is a great pisstake of the films script

http://www.cracked.com/article_17454_terminator-salvation-if-they-left-out-bull****.html

^ You can guess what the **** are for so just manually enter the link

Actually, that's the kind of thing I thought was going to happen in this. And I kind of wish it did because it sounds a better ending than the one they had.

lostexpectation

these people have no shame

FrostyJack

yeah *my day* being a couple of weeks back when I saw Star Trek

Eh I like star trek but that was dumber than than T4

Earth had no defenses, nor did Vulcan? Never saw any off the major battles, the fact that Bana went back in time to capture Spoc rather than save his planet, no one thought to attack the drill until the end etc etc etc

, the film is a fantasy, it is for entertainment purposes not a documentary.

Yes because the overstretched pointless action scenes (no tension, no resolution) where the best we have seen in recent years. As an action film this was horribly bland and unexciting.

I don't get you here, every action scene had a point and a resolution?

The problem I had was knowing Connor couldn't die which null and voided all his action scenes, though that alternate ending would have been better imho

Overstretched? The film was very short considering.....

BlitzKrieg

FrostyJack wrote: »

Eh I like star trek but that was dumber than than T4

Earth had no defenses, nor did Vulcan? Never saw any off the major battles, the fact that Bana went back in time to capture Spoc rather than save his planet, no one thought to attack the drill until the end etc etc etc

, the film is a fantasy, it is for entertainment purposes not a documentary.

still a better film then T4

Overstretched? The film was very short considering.....

Overstretched, the scenes themselves can be overstretched even if the film is short, most notable is the whole escape sequence from the resistance base which dragged on for ages.

FrostyJack

Overstretched, the scenes themselves can be overstretched even if the film is short, most notable is the whole escape sequence from the resistance base which dragged on for ages.

I agree with you on that scene, also the fact that the resistance are the worst shots ever (well maybe second to the Terminators in the film) and the stupid marinebot things which made no sense

only put there for Marcus to save John

(Why was there 50 of them right outside the base, if Skynet knew that was the base why not Nuke/attack it).

We will have to agree to disagree on most of the rest.

pixelburp

FrostyJack wrote: »

Saw this last night and quite enjoyed, a millions things wrong with it, but the positives make up for it. 90% of the bad review here are from people comparing it to T1 and T2 as if they were master pieces, they had equally the same amount of plot holes and gaffs, Transformers had even a million more than they did, yet the rose tinted brigade (seems to be the same people all the time) over look all these for some reason ("it was better in my day"). As an action film (like ALL Terminators are) it was was good, if you want drama, conversation and realism look else where.

Well no, my bad review was because it was a crap movie, nothing more complex than that. I was no big fan of the new Star Trek movie either, but that was for different reasons.

I found T4 boring & derivative. As an action movie too, so it's not like I had some pretensions about the thing. I have seen it all before; McG was just riffing other people instead of doing his own thing.

Fysh

FrostyJack wrote: »

Saw this last night and quite enjoyed, a millions things wrong with it, but the positives make up for it. 90% of the bad review here are from people comparing it to T1 and T2 as if they were master pieces, they had equally the same amount of plot holes and gaffs, Transformers had even a million more than they did, yet the rose tinted brigade (seems to be the same people all the time) over look all these for some reason ("it was better in my day"). As an action film (like ALL Terminators are) it was was good, if you want drama, conversation and realism look else where.

As an action film, it was crap as far as I'm concerned. The more I've thought about it, the more disappointed I am with it. For comparison's sake, Crank 2 was a more entertaining action film by miles, despite having comparable number of ludicrous plot elements and a significantly lower budget (by about a factor of 20, IIRC!).

speedboatchase

A lot of people would say T1 and 2 ARE masterpieces. And I'm 24 so neither was released "in my day", the first actually before I was born! But I digress, I've made quite clearly my views on Salvation already on this thread

monkeyfudge

I've always loved the first one. Thought the second one was a bit of a disappointment when it came out and didn't find the third one to be all that bad.

Salvation is massive pile of sh*te though.

KerranJast

monkeyfudge wrote: »

Thought the second one was a bit of a disappointment when it came out

Seriously? If I'd seen T2 for the first time in the cinema back in '91 I'd have been :eek: for a month after it.

pixelburp

monkeyfudge wrote: »

I've always loved the first one. Thought the second one was a bit of a disappointment when it came out and didn't find the third one to be all that bad.

Salvation is massive pile of sh*te though.

Agree with this summary, though curious why you label the second a disappointment (if you haven't already that is )?

monkeyfudge

I really can't stand Linda Hamilton and Edward Furlong I guess. And the whole teaching the Terminator to be human thing I found to be trite, and I was glad they didn't rehash that in Terminator 3 actually.

T2 just wasn't the sequel I wanted to a dark gritty film like T1.

FrostyJack

Thought the second one was a bit of a disappointment when it came out and didn't find the third one to be all that bad.

Ah so people that hate 4, like 3 and think 2 wasn't was good as 1. :rolleyes: It all makes sense now. I didn't mention 3 as it made the Godfather 3 seem like Godfather 2. One ridiculous scene after another that was supposed to be a comedy but wasn't funny in anyway. From Arnie finding the keys under the mirror to the bullet proof casket it was shocking. I feel better about my opinion of 4 now.

BlitzKrieg

Ah so people that hate 4, like 3 and think 2 wasn't was good as 1

You make far too many assumptions...

MooseJam

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

still a better film then T4

In your opinion

robby^5

FrostyJack wrote: »

Ah so people that hate 4, like 3 and think 2 wasn't was good as 1. :rolleyes:

I thought 4 and 3 were ok, not brilliant and had a lot of watsed potential in both films. T2 is a much better film than T1 imo, one of the best sequels ever made.

tok9

i'm going to see this tonight... i'm looking forward to discussing it...

T2 was Unreal! Best sequel ever i'd say....

Langer Dan

I thought it was grand. Functioning but nowt too special. A workmanlike effort that improved on the lame third outing. Looking for plotholes in a series that operates with time travel is an excercise in redundancy.

johnny_ultimate

Langer Dan wrote: »

I thought it was grand. Functioning but nowt too special. A workmanlike effort that improved on the lame third outing. Looking for plotholes in a series that operates with time travel is an excercise in redundancy.

This is the thing - in many ways I'd prefer bad to 'workmanlike' or bland. At least in a bad film (say, The Happening which is really, really, really awful) you at least get a couple of laughs. You still have wasted you're money, but at least any good film you see soon after comes across better after watching an absolute trainwreck. But bland is almost worse - just a complete waste of effort. Its just boring and wasteful. Something like Star Trek (which, yes, also had plotholes but had some fun while it was at it) shows how playful you can be with an established franchise. Terminator Salvation and the likes of Wolverine are just money-spinners - uninteresting chapters in a franchise, and answers to questions that really aren't worth answering. The Star Wars prequels may have been awful, but they built up the mythology and saga somewhat, genuinely filling in gaps in the narrative. Sure, George Lucas forgot to make a good film out of it, but at least it built upon the story. Salvation just does nothing - basically an extended version of Connor meeting Reese which probably could have been handled in one scene if they felt like it. And perhaps Star Trek did the same thing, but had energy, laughs and solid direction behind it. Everyone in TS just seems bored in comparison.

Also: is Salvation considered a prequel or sequel? Or does asking said question create a time paradox of sorts?