T4 Terminator Salvation: The Future Begins

nyarlothothep

As an action film its a mediocre yawn fest, nothing amazing, uninspired but watchable...just.

As a Terminator film its awful. I was watching T1 last night and compared to TS its a masterpiece. The action sequences were actually interesting and didn't need to rely on seat of your pants woosshhh bbrrrrrkkggghhhh zzzerrrunnnnmmmm scenes. Thats what this film mostly consisted of, characters staring for 3 seconds, then something really fast happening.

The pacing was terrible, the characters were dull, Bale was crap. His lines consisted of "I AM JOHN CONNOR!!! LEADER. OF. THE. RESISTANCE!!!! JOHN CONNOR! JOHN CONNOR!!!

And wtf was happening with that scene with the human cyborg dude at the pond, we've established that Connor knows that he is a terminator, yet he asks "WHHAAT AAARRRREEEE YYYYOUUUUUU!!!!! Surely Connnor should know exactly what he is, seeing as he has already encountered previous human terminators.

I'll give this a 5/10. Not bad, somewhat worse than T3 since it lacks Arnie delivering cheesy lines. I doubt McG will be having anything to do with the next one, seeing as this is tanking at the box office in the states. Might just add, Terminator is more or less Camerons creation if I recall correctly. So the subsequent installments after T2 are as canon as someone buying the rights to the LOTR trilogy and continuing the story.

Handsome Bob

nyarlothothep wrote: »

The pacing was terrible, the characters were dull, Bale was crap. His lines consisted of "I AM JOHN CONNOR!!! LEADER. OF. THE. RESISTANCE!!!! JOHN CONNOR! JOHN CONNOR!!!

But whose fault is that really? Bale didn't write the script. As I said, his dialogue in this film is crap. That's down to the hacks who wrote it, not Bale.

nyarlothothep

LZ5by5 wrote: »

But whose fault is that really? Bale didn't write the script. As I said, his dialogue in this film is crap. That's down to the hacks who wrote it, not Bale.

True that, but his performance managed to be remarkably histronic and bland at the same time.

BlitzKrieg

Yeah the script is awful, but bale doesnt carry the role very well, considering the role he is playing is a role that is meant to be an inspirational *warrior poet* character, Bale fails to bring any of that forward most notable in his speech to stop the resistance bombing skynet, that struck me as a point in the film that was meant to allow John Connor shine as someone who inspires, yet it falls flast on its face.

The link (I think) you provided a few pages back is quite good as it goes along way to explaining how John Connor was written into the film more then originally intended.

Shacklebolt

pixelburp wrote: »

Indeed. Dear god I forgot how ... 80s that movie is.

What could possibly be 80s about this soundtrack?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wCyZm7_uwU

pixelburp

Shacklebolt wrote: »

What could possibly be 80s about this soundtrack?

Ah well the soundtrack's top notch (love those early 80s Cameron & John Carpenter soundtracks), but it was actually the fashions I was talking about! Sarah Connor & her generic-slutty-friend's clothes & hair were ... to be seen to be believed.

Shacklebolt

pixelburp wrote: »

Ah well the soundtrack's top notch (love those early 80s Cameron & John Carpenter soundtracks), but it was actually the fashions I was talking about! Sarah Connor & her generic-slutty-friend's clothes & hair were ... to be seen to be believed.

The soundtrack is class but it does have a real 80s sound to it. The fashions are unbelievably bad alright!

BlitzKrieg

the one thing I did like is the nine inch nails song in the trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGkXz8_vlUA

MooseJam

Regarding screaming terminators it's psychological warfare - when are you more likely to make a mistake - when a terminator is chasing you or when a screaming terminator is chasing you ?

The Germans made their Stuka divebombers scream on diving for the same reason

BlitzKrieg

did the terminatos have really large chins in this one? I couldnt help but think the t-600's had big sledgehammer chins for some reason.

Have to say I didn't like it very much. I'm a big fan of the first two, actually thought the 3rd one was ok, well, just because it had Terminators in it.

So out comes this big budget film set in the future battle of which we've only seen minor clips from dream sequences in the other films. It could have been fantastic. I remember seeing the films as a kid, the visions of the future battles were my favourite parts.

Alas, it's ****ing terrible. It's cheesy as hell, I mean, the other films made the war look horrible and dirty and frightening. This, for the most part, seemed like a ****ing kids film about the war.

I didn't think it would bother me that much, but this needed to be more violent and dirty and gritty. And if I said it before I said it a million times, films comprised entirely of cgi end up looking stupid - Some of the cgi, to me - especially the part with the motorbike being dragged behind the car then flying into the flying machine? Looked cheap and fake as shít.

And the scene where marcus(think that was his name) is talking to cybernet? Why is cybernet a bitch to him? Makes absolutely no sense.

In fact, nothing in this film really makes any sense. I don't remember one twist or turn that was explained in this film that made me go "Oooh, that explains it!"


And whats with people going hand to hand with terminators and not getting killed. Terminators would rather throw people around it seems when they could literally kill someone with one touch, or by stabbing their fingers into them. I dunno, but they definitely made the terminators look like pussies.

LZ5by5

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I really do think that it was simply just of case of Bale not having much to do. He didn't really have any scenes where he could show his ability and the lack of dialogue really puts him at a disadvantage too.

Exactly. Someone like Bale shouldn't have been playing that part. It didn't really suit him, imho. They would have been better off with some less well known actor

Handsome Bob

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

The link (I think) you provided a few pages back is quite good as it goes along way to explaining how John Connor was written into the film more then originally intended.

Yeah that was me, it was an article from Chud. It really does sound like a horrific mess, I don't know how McG only greenlit a rewrite when filming had already started.

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Exactly. Someone like Bale shouldn't have been playing that part. It didn't really suit him, imho. They would have been better off with some less well known actor

Yeah I'll concede that, I think one of the two biggest mistakes McG made was casting Christian as John Connor because in hindsight, it is now clear that it was a move to win over fans. Had he done a proper search and found a relative unknown but who was capable of playing the role, it would have been obviously great for the movie, but he would of had to deal with fans asking "who the hell is this guy?" It was a lazy and short sighted move by McG.

However, if McG somehow gets a sequel, I'll be very interested to see how Bale does because one would assume that the scripy will be much better rather than a muddled mess torn between two different movies.

MooseJam

I'd agree with the wtf was with the terminators throwing people around - once they had their hands on you it would be skull crushing time not midget tossing

nyarlothothep

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

the one thing I did like is the nine inch nails song in the trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGkXz8_vlUA

Yar NIN music perfectly suits Terminator, pity his music gets put on the soundtracks of bad-mediocre movies, Doom for one!

humanji

Saw this last night and wasn't too impressed. It's not a terrible film, it's just nothing new (except Terminators wear bandana's for some reason). You could tell exactly what was going to happen throughout the movie, very little of it made sense and McG seems to be aiming at being the next Michael Bay.

I'll probably wait to see the next one when it's on tv.

TerrorFirmer

nyarlothothep wrote: »

And wtf was happening with that scene with the human cyborg dude at the pond, we've established that Connor knows that he is a terminator, yet he asks "WHHAAT AAARRRREEEE YYYYOUUUUUU!!!!! Surely Connnor should know exactly what he is, seeing as he has already encountered previous human terminators.

Not like this though, with organs and brain matter, which Marcus has, so he's different then other 'terminators'. He's an advanced infiltration unit.

I have to say I liked the movie though the glaring flaws would be

1) The Terminators tendency to engage in bar room brawl tactics rather then merely killing
2) The rather crap endoskeleton effects for Marcus compared to Arnie in T3
3) Stupid cliches, like the child star
4) Storyline very childish and conveniently simplistic in spots

one glaring fault I noticed was that the terminators in this movie were able to withstand molten steel, more advanced offensive models like in T2 were not.

have to say overall i sort of liked it though. missing the most was the classic cat and mouse setup from the other 3 films, though that's a given with the setting i suppose.

Fysh

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Not like this though, with organs and brain matter, which Marcus has, so he's different then other 'terminators'. He's an advanced infiltration unit.

There was obviously still enough metal in him to set off magnetic mines, amongst other things. I didn't get what was supposed to be different between Marcus and the Terminators we've seen from the first film - they've always been cyborgs.

BlitzKrieg

I didn't get what was supposed to be different between Marcus and the Terminators we've seen from the first film

Marcus was an actual human, with human brains and heart in a terminator exoskeleton. He actually believed he was human and didnt know he was being used by skynet to spy on and lure Connor etc into a trap.

The perfect infiltration unit because it didnt know it was an infiltration unit.

Makes sense this far. But Skynet's absolutley failure to control him and also the explanation of his origin both suck.


Marcus was created by a human scientist before judgement day, cyberdine took over her research when she died, he was left buried in some vault. Skynet reactivate him stick some spyware on him and send him out to find kyle reese and john connor.

I originally expected there was some time traval shenadigans involved in his creation, skynet knowing who kyle reese is in the future send a machine back to create this perfect infiltration unit which would know who to look for post judgement day, specificly kyle reese.

But none of that happened...Skynet just seemed to know by default who kyle reese was, how to identify him and what he will do. And marcus was some old human experiment dug up for the mission.

raises too many questions...

speedboatchase

MooseJam wrote: »

it was a lot better than star trek which was a joke

It's Opposite Man!

Handsome Bob

I have to admit that Star Trek is the better film. It is an assured, confident and competent piece of filmmaking while TS suffers from a script chopped and changed and one which is stuck between two different films with opposing ideas.

nyarlothothep

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Not like this though, with organs and brain matter, which Marcus has, so he's different then other 'terminators'. He's an advanced infiltration unit.

I have to say I liked the movie though the glaring flaws would be

1) The Terminators tendency to engage in bar room brawl tactics rather then merely killing
2) The rather crap endoskeleton effects for Marcus compared to Arnie in T3
3) Stupid cliches, like the child star
4) Storyline very childish and conveniently simplistic in spots

one glaring fault I noticed was that the terminators in this movie were able to withstand molten steel, more advanced offensive models like in T2 were not.

have to say overall i sort of liked it though. missing the most was the classic cat and mouse setup from the other 3 films, though that's a given with the setting i suppose.

The line was out of place, they had already formed an alliance, things were calming down and then out of the blue we get another bale freakout.

joe123

I thought it was pretty good. Some of you really cant just sit down and watch a film for what it is id hate to have to try and pick holes in every little thing.

Not a patch on T1 and 2 but hopefully the sequel (and i hope theres more to come) is an improvement.

A terminator film is better than no terminator film at all.

Star Trek lol. I dont even know why they bother making these no one I know has even any interest watching it. Mainly because its a load of ****e!

BlitzKrieg

Star Trek lol. I dont even know why they bother making these no one I know has even any interest watching it. Mainly because its a load of ****e

must not know many people considering star trek has blown T4 out of the water in the box office...

MooseJam

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

must not know many people considering star trek has blown T4 out of the water in the box office...

box office doesn't say much - titanic ftw

Star Trek was fab - OO look at my hands all blown up just like in the cartoons lulz

SoupyNorman

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I have to admit that Star Trek is the better film.

Just back from T4, was a toss up between seeing that or Star Trek...I made the wrong choice.

Didnt like T4 at all, nothing original. The clichés were coming thick and fast All I wanted to do was smack that kid.

The number of...JC in helicopter *scene missing* JC in a submarine just got to a farcical level.

few things that annoyed me...

How come all the resistance fighters had perfectly white sparkly teeth?
How did the LA resistance branch survive, FFS...two kids against terminators...to just accept that this is difficult.
The Terminators seem to be selective with their intelligence.
When the terminator drove the piece of metal through JC why did it not target his heart like it did with Marcus?

People can say why get hung up?? but for me continuity is important

nyarlothothep

restarting marcus' heart with electrical wires pushed the boundaries of plausible

MooseJam

SoupyNorman wrote: »

few things that annoyed me...
How come all the resistance fighters had perfectly white sparkly teeth?

I don't see why oral hygiene has to go out the window after judgement day, it's just brushing your teeth like whats the big deal

How did the LA resistance branch survive, FFS...two kids against terminators...to just accept that this is difficult.

They weren't in the resistance and they weren't fighting the machines, they were hiding - the machines only came across them when marcus shouts at the teminator

The Terminators seem to be selective with their intelligence.

how so

When the terminator drove the piece of metal through JC why did it not target his heart like it did with Marcus?

It did target his heart hence he needed a new one, I guess his aim wasn't perfect he was wearing a jacket - hardly something to get hung up on

Handsome Bob

joe123 wrote: »

I thought it was pretty good. Some of you really cant just sit down and watch a film for what it is id hate to have to try and pick holes in every little thing.

Not a patch on T1 and 2 but hopefully the sequel (and i hope theres more to come) is an improvement.

A terminator film is better than no terminator film at all.

Star Trek lol. I dont even know why they bother making these no one I know has even any interest watching it. Mainly because its a load of ****e!

I'm one of the few who enjoyed Terminator Salvation, for the spectacle if nothing else. However, I'm just saying that Star Trek is the more coherent of the two in regards to plot.

McG should of had the nerve before filming even started to look at the script and say this isn't good enough. Instead he waited until filming had started to panic and bring in Jonah Nolan to try and improve it. But the problem was that the script needed much more than improving, it needed to be ripped up and to start from scratch.

Ever hear of the original rumoured ending? It flies in the face of the mythology of Terminator and spits on it. How surprising is it that the guys who came up with that ending are the same guys who wrote Catwoman, a film that fans refer to as CINO (Catwoman in name only). These guys had no regard for the source material in regards to Catwoman and Terminator Salvation. McG should have realised that and demand a rewrite. Instead what we end up with is a muddled piece of film torn between what Brancato & Ferris wrote and what Nolan wrote.

As I said, TS in my eyes is a good film. But for the reasons I mentioned above Star Trek is the better of the two.

iMax

nyarlothothep wrote: »

restarting marcus' heart with electrical wires pushed the boundaries of plausible

Not the metal skelatons walking around with guns ?

I can't work out what part "Star" has to play, (I'm assuming something in Episode 2 or 3), otherwise there's absolutely no point in that character.