BBC’s ‘Ashes to Ashes’

Mr E · 22-05-2010 10:36am

Ashes to Ashes was always a finite show, branners. They had an ending in mind and stuck to it. Dragging it out over more series would have diluted it completely - instead we have a fully fleshed out, timeless and complete show that we can look back on with fondness.

branners69 · 22-05-2010 11:02am

Mr E wrote: »

Ashes to Ashes was always a finite show...

Agreed, but my point was how many of these shows dont get commissioned because the BBC are spending €15k plus on shoes for Over the Rainbow?

Ann22 · 22-05-2010 12:08pm

Ah no, it'd be sh*t if there was no ending to it or went on for ages with viewers getting fed up..like Lost. I love Gene's character, I'll miss it a lot. Great screen presence, cool as fcuk.

I hate 'Over the Rainbow'...they all look and sound the same and their desperation to outsing each other is a bit sad. However I passionately love Big Brother:o...Shows like that raise loads of dosh.

22-05-2010 12:40pm

I felt while LOM and Ashes to Ashes were both excellent, the Ashes to Ashes ending let the series down a bit. Just think it left a few more questions then answers.

I did think it was funny the way Gene went into the prison without riot gear some weeks back and didn't get a belt of one missile which were absolutely raining down on the riot squad + the way he drives the quattro around London like a man possessed. Made me think, is he invincible?

Then again what about the LOM finale? What would have happened to Gene, Ray, Annie, Chris and the team if Sam didn't come back. Would Keats or similar have taken their bodies had they been shot? Or had that moment in time been freezed until Sam felt he was Ready to join 'that world' again?

Overall a great bit of television, Kudo's to the Beeb. and as some suggested it wasn't overly drawn out like 'Lost'.

Arthur Daley · 22-05-2010 12:56pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Overall a great bit of television, Kudo's to the Beeb.

Kudos to Kudos.:)

Mark Hamill · 22-05-2010 2:01pm

Sidney77 wrote: »

2 plotholes

1. If its purgatory how can sam have committed suicide

Who said it was a christian purgatory? Its just a place between heaven and earth, even calling the it heaven may not be right, having heaven as a pub where the police go to drink and relax after a hard job puts me more in mind of Valhalla.

Sidney77 wrote: »

2. If Ray is in Genes world in 73 and 83 how can he have died on jubilee day in 1977

Genes world doesn't actually tie in with real world time, so I dont thinks its an issue. Besides, one of teh points of the last episode was that they had all forgotten they had died anyway, so it would be no bother to Ray that he was still alive in 1983 (that is, until Keats started to break the group away from Genes control)

Mark Hamill · 22-05-2010 2:04pm

Static Jak wrote: »

Wait a second.

So if Jim Keats was the Devil, does that mean he was also Frank Morgan near the end of Life on Mars?

For those who don't remember, Frank Morgan took over as DCI near the end while Hunt was accused of murder. Turns out Frank is undercover to expose the corruption of Gene Hunt and his team. Sound familiar?
And then he tells Sam that he suffered amnesia in a car crash a few years back and that he isn't dead or in a coma.
And when Sam does "wake up" guess who's his surgeon. Frank of course. Seems to me Frank was the Devil again trying to use Sam.

Didn't Frank Morgan want to take Sam to Hull? Or did he say he was from Hull? I seem to remeber something to do with Hull, maybe I'm wrong though.

Mark Hamill · 22-05-2010 2:07pm

Deleted User wrote: »

some of ye seen the heaven and hell thing coming with a while maybe just mixing up the devil and god though
I was adamant that maybe this world was 'real' (at least within the 4 walls of tv land anyway).
how did Chris, Shaz and Ray just forget their previous lives?

I mean Chris and Shaz were discussing where to sit their relatives at their wedding the last series and now it turns out they are in same predicament as alex and sam???? explain that someone.

They didn't want to deal with their deaths I think was the problem. Chris was stuck wanting to impress his senior officer, Ray wanted to feel better about being a copper instead of being a soldier and Shaz just panics at the thought of not seeing her mum. I think that Genes world being so complete and so dominant (because of Genes personality) helps them to forget, while Alex and Sam where better equipped (for whatever reason), to question the situation.

Lord TSC · 22-05-2010 7:55pm

My understanding was that Shaz, Ray and Chris were dead and thus had no memory of their "real" life until they were reminded by Keats. Sam and Alex didn't die, but rather were in comas, near death. This meant their memory wasn't obscured; they could remember cause they were on the brink of death, unlike others.

22-05-2010 8:13pm

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

My understanding was that Shaz, Ray and Chris were dead and thus had no memory of their "real" life until they were reminded by Keats. Sam and Alex didn't die, but rather were in comas, near death. This meant their memory wasn't obscured; they could remember cause they were on the brink of death, unlike others.

That's a good credible theory. What happens to a cop ala Martin Summers or Viv when they die in the afterlife?

EDIT: Im just relieved we didn't get the

Astronauts

like the bullsh*t American Life on Mars so i suppose it wasnt such a bad ending

tony1kenobi · 22-05-2010 8:34pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I did think it was funny the way Gene went into the prison without riot gear some weeks back and didn't get a belt of one missile which were absolutely raining down on the riot squad + the way he drives the quattro around London like a man possessed. Made me think, is he invincible?'

Is that not because it was his world and he saw himself as a "Gary Cooper" type character.....if it's all of his own making he can be that swaggering hero all he wants....that's what I got from his explaination to Alex when it dawned on him that he was only a skinny kid when he died.....

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Didn't Frank Morgan want to take Sam to Hull? Or did he say he was from Hull? I seem to remeber something to do with Hull, maybe I'm wrong though.

Hyde...it was the name of the ward Sam was on in hospital AND the fictional division he transferred from in 1973.

I think Ray died in Jubilee year for 2 reasons...1) he was watching it on a colour tv which would have been unlikey in the early 50s' and 2) he would not have been able to rock that awesome perm/tache combo in the 50s.

I think Ray,Chris and Shaz forgot they had died/apparently time travelled because of the length of time they spent in limbo.Ray and Chris were with Gene for at least 10 years and hadn't Shaz been there 3 years by the time Alex arrived?

I also don't think Sam ever left the hospital at the end of Life On Mars...I think the coming out of a coma then opting to go back by doing a header off the roof was just his dying..........like when Alex came out of the coma but allowed Gene to bring her back...that's the moment she died......

Of course that doesn't explain how Alex was aware of Sams case.....unless she was already in the coma before we joined the show......which she probably was.....as Layton didn't physically age from 1981 to 2008 did he?....and Molly was reading Sams case file which, if those events actually occured......would mean I am wrong about Sam never coming out of his coma.....which puts me right back at the start.....

Sh*t.

cjmcork · 23-05-2010 12:15am

watched it again tonight............this is the point that gets me:

'You are, and always will be.. The Guv'

and then I'm gone.................:o

tony1kenobi · 23-05-2010 1:27am

PS...I never knew Alex got a mention at the end of Life On Mars until I read it just then.....and then I watched it....just after just then.

mancduff · 23-05-2010 2:29am

Just watched it on bbc iplayer - simply brilliant, always suspected the show was set in the afterlife, from LoM when sam gets in the car at the end and the radio in the car has the surgeons saying they were going to lose him etc etc plus she gets shot in the head, nice to have theories confirmed. Will miss this its the best thing the beeb have done in a while (in my opinion) come on RTE pull your finger out of your arse.

23-05-2010 3:04am

thought it might have been more poignant, rather then have the policeman in b&w talk at the end, have perhaps the test card girl turn off the tv to give it that extra closure like LOM

The Maverick · 23-05-2010 3:26am

The black and white clip at the end is from an old BBC police drama called Dixon of Dock Green. I was reading an interview with the Ashes to Ashes creator and he said that the character of Dixon was killed off in an earlier film before being resurected in the tv series. I thought that was a clever little touch, hinting at Gene and the others being killed but living on in their own world.
I agree it was a very good ending and one that does benefit from another viewing. Its hard to know what else they could have done but it is a bit sad that Gene is alone again,waiting on another crew to arrive.

Melia · 23-05-2010 7:02am

Deleted User wrote: »

That's a good credible theory. What happens to a cop ala Martin Summers or Viv when they die in the afterlife?

EDIT: <giant spoiler for US LoM>

Come on! Spoilers! Not all of us have seen the US version of LoM yet.

Thought the final episode was fantastic. Going to give it another watch before I make any comments. Loved all the little touches!

tony1kenobi · 23-05-2010 12:03pm

Melia wrote: »

Come on! Spoilers! Not all of us have seen the US version of LoM yet!

Save yourself about 10 hours of your life....It's is complete dung.

23-05-2010 1:46pm

The Maverick wrote: »

The black and white clip at the end is from an old BBC police drama called Dixon of Dock Green. I was reading an interview with the Ashes to Ashes creator and he said that the character of Dixon was killed off in an earlier film before being resurected in the tv series. I thought that was a clever little touch, hinting at Gene and the others being killed but living on in their own world.
I agree it was a very good ending and one that does benefit from another viewing. Its hard to know what else they could have done but it is a bit sad that Gene is alone again,waiting on another crew to arrive.

pretty much explains that so.
what a refreshing piece of tv both LOM and Ashes was, in an age of overbearing political correctness and over dominant sub standard reality tv

oh yeah what Merc was gene looking at the brochure of?

Mr E · 23-05-2010 1:49pm

You know, I'd heard about the ending to the US LoM, but I'd never seen it. Just watched the last 10 minutes on youtube.

This will be one successful gene hunt? Major Tom? Christ..... :rolleyes:
It was as bad as I imagined it would be.

tony1kenobi · 23-05-2010 7:52pm

Anyone think Genes' body being found in 2008 and given a proper burial will resolve his limbo issue and let him go for a pint with the rest of them?

23-05-2010 8:00pm

tony1kenobi wrote: »

Anyone think Genes' body being found in 2008 and given a proper burial will resolve his limbo issue and let him go for a pint with the rest of them?

That's what i thought. Maybe its a choice of his not to.

Arthur Daley · 23-05-2010 11:45pm

Deleted User wrote: »

oh yeah what Merc was gene looking at the brochure of?

A 190 D!

he seems to be getting all sensible at the end in his old age.

Now if it was a 190 Cosworth, that would've been nice.

Biggins · 24-05-2010 12:28am

Good write up on the last episode here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1280359/Ashes-To-Ashes-Im-arresting-murdering-Quattro--Gene-Hunt-makes-bow-finale.html
Warning - if you have NOT seen it yet - contains all spoilers!

Motley Crue · 24-05-2010 9:42am

Can I just ask a question,

if Gene was buried in a shallow grave and he was found in 2008 or 2009, who buried him in that grave and why?

And I saw the American Life On Mars and the ending aside, I like the show

The Maverick · 24-05-2010 10:47am

Motley Crue wrote: »

Can I just ask a question,
if Gene was buried in a shallow grave and he was found in 2008 or 2009, who buried him in that grave and why?

And I saw the American Life On Mars and the ending aside, I like the show

Gene was shot dead as a young policeman in 1953 when he disturbed a burgular at a rural farmhouse. I persume who ever shot him buried him.

omahaid · 24-05-2010 2:47pm

I've been trying to figure out why

Genes body was there at all? Shazs body couldn't have been hanging around because she was killed in the 90's, Ray and Chris's body weren't mentioned anywhere, and what about Alex? Is it because it's Genes world?

ixoy · 24-05-2010 4:38pm

Reckon I prefered this finale to 'Lost''s. More satisfying from both a story and character conclusion.

ardmacha · 29-05-2010 3:58pm

Having just seen the recording of this, it closed off a lot of themes. The bit about the the trip to Lancashire,

to find Gene's grave

seemed a bit odd and melodramatic to me. Coming across an old newspaper or file to events in the 1950s would have been more realistic (if anything is realistic).

If a policeman went missing in a country village, surely such a shallow grave would have been discovered soon enough. And they all went back in the same car, how did they get there?

While the American series of Life on Mars seems to have taken liberties, the Spanish version La chica de Ayer seems a close copy with different 70s music and I suppose local cultural references. You'd need pretty good Spanish to pick up the subtle references though.

02-06-2010 11:01pm

Teasey wrote: »

Maybe - My thinking is that that's Gene. I think Gene is dead. He has trouble accepting change and has constructed this world around him because he doesn't want to "move on" - he needs other people around him to keep the world he has made going. So he has built up a loyal team that won't leave him

That's why there's been a theme of trying to make people move away from Gene. It's only by getting away from him that you can either "move on" (which may be what the stars are all about) or else get better.

People are stuck there cos they have unfinished business - And Shaz an Ray have now conquered theirs but have decided to stay there with Gene anyway

Maybe Sam realised all of this and finally moved on - that's why he's gone from that world but no body was found...

Alex sorted her unfinished business in S1, but she's still there - so maybe she has to help Gene undestand all of this and finally accept it

Or maybe I'm thinking about this WAY too much and I'm totally wrong!!!

My god you were fairly on the money in the end

ardmacha wrote:

Having just seen the recording of this, it closed off a lot of themes......

Yeah...

You'd imagine if a cop went missing at any time there would be a huge man hunt out to find him.

ardmacha wrote:

And they all went back in the same car, how did they get there?

Good question.

Alex had her own car and Gene had the Quattro, Jim Keats must have took an express train

Who took Alex's car back?

BBC’s ‘Ashes to Ashes’

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