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Proud to be Irish

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    #62
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 23,993 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Bob in Belfast wrote: »
    Were you in Britain during the 70's?
    I don't think you were so you don't really know what you're talking about.

    I was in Britain then, and Dudess pretty much sums it up. Innocent Irish people and their "Plastic Paddy" children got the evil eye, or worse, every time some idiots attacked a "military" target e,g. a pub, and decided to blow it up, or kill a few shoppers, or the odd horse! Who was proud of their Irishness in that context?

    The same thing's happening now with the Muslims, only they're easier to spot.


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    #63
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Dudess wrote: »
    And therein lies my point. I don't understand why a person would be proud of their nationality because it's not as if it's something they have achieved. If you're proud of being Irish because of something positive achieved by an Irish person, by the same token shouldn't you be ashamed of something destructive carried out by an Irish person in the name of Irish people?
    The anti-Irish attitudes of certain British people in the 70s because of the IRA's campaign was disgusting - all Irish people were made to feel accountable simply because they were Irish. Irish people shouldn't feel ashamed to be Irish because of the atrocities of the republican movement, but the same applies to, say, Riverdance or whatever - it's illogical to feel pride in that simply because you have nationality in common with the person who put it together.

    I don't care what you do and don't understand. Do you have aspergers syndrome? This is a serious question. You seem to have a huge problem in understanding human emotion.

    You haven't made any point whatsoever. You've tried to dictate what I can and cannot have pride in.

    If you don't understand why someone could be proud of their country, it's culture, it's accomplishments, the obstacles it's overcome, the reactions the person gets from foreign people when they go abroad and so forth - then there is really no need to go any further with this. You either do or you don't.

    To suggest because I didn't feel ashamed for the Irish people because of Omagh means I cannot be proud of my country's accomplishments is silly and illogical. I'd feel proud for my country if we won the world cup.. or took home a gold medal in the olympics.. I'd feel ashamed for the Irish people if we voted to support a war on Iraq or something to that extent.. but for dissidents to bomb Omagh? Nope.

    I'm not going to go over this debate with you any further. I know what I feel pride in - It's not my job to try and make you understand it. If you don't have any national pride, that's your prerogative - But don't come on here acting all high and mighty trying to tell us what we can and cannot have pride in.


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    #64
    Kintarō Hattori
    Registered Users Posts: 14,971 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    LordChessington wrote: »
    @eo980 - I think you're getting mixed up between national pride and patriotism. There's a thin line between the two, patriotism being the worse (IMO), as it can be associated with racism, etc. National pride... well it doesn't really need explanation....
    Dudess wrote: »
    ...True, but to be fair, not all nationalism is extreme. Some forms of nationalism are quite benign - e.g. supporting your national football team during the World Cup. But if that team happens to be England and it's beaten by Germany and you go out and smash up a load of Volkswagons and torture a load of German shepherds, then that's not so good.

    I'm definetly not confusing the too. Sure alot if not most people feel a little nationalistic but its a problem when it's for the wrong reasons and to be honest most people probably couldn't give a crap about our history, culture or heritage and its only when they feel threatened or come across something different that it comes into play.
    That's the problem, they don't really care but when they have an issue out of the cupboard it comes.


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    #65
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    In Longbridge after the Brum pub bombings there were marches - one banner read "Hang the Irish" Dudess is right.

    Mike.


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    #66
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    dlofnep, have pride all you want, but if you're gonna make that statement, be prepared for someone to debate the logistics of such pride. I'm not dictating to you what you should and shouldn't feel proud of.


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    #67
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Dudess wrote: »
    Have pride all you want, but if you're gonna make that statement, be prepared for someone to debate the logistics of such pride.

    Oh because we debate every expression of human emotion in every post on here? Get a grip. You're just anti-nationalist and trying to start a flame-war on boards as per usual. You're a clear as day. That's the end of it.


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    #68
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Oh because we debate every expression of human emotion in every post on here?
    No, we don't.
    trying to start a flame-war on boards as per usual.
    It's a discussion forum.


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    #69
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Err Mike, those feelings were there long before any bombings occurred, my parents and their bro's/sisters families lived in England in the 40's/50's with the no dogs, no black, no irish signs everywhere.
    Obviously in the 70's it became more vocal for the wrong reasons with tensions sky high.

    Anyway, so Dudess..what i can read from your point is that every nationality should be 'neutral' of their heritage because of the wrongs of political deeds??...(the good evens out the bad hence neutral)


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    #70
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Dudess wrote: »
    No, we don't.

    Thank you.


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    #71
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    But we do debate some.
    gurramok wrote:
    Err Mike, those feelings were there long before any bombings occurred, my parents and their bro's/sisters families lived in England in the 40's/50's with the no dogs, no black, no irish signs everywhere.
    Obviously in the 70's it became more vocal for the wrong reasons with tensions sky high.
    Yeah obviously. Nobody said anywhere that there wasn't sh*t being thrown at the Irish before the 70s. I was only focusing on that decade because it was when the IRA began its campaign in earnest and some British people decided to treat the Irish immigrant population as if they were accountable.
    Anyway, so Dudess..what i can read from your point is that every nationality should be 'neutral' of their heritage because of the wrongs of political deeds??...(the good evens out the bad hence neutral)
    No. I'm saying I don't agree with people being proud of their nationality, just like I don't agree with people being made to feel ashamed of their nationality because of atrocities that were committed in their name.


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    #72
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    I'm proud to be Irish because of the impact made by my ancestors on the rest of the world.

    I don't give a flying fúck if you like that or not. It's my fúcking opinion and nobody is going to change my mind.


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    #73
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Soon be at page 4, its warming up nicely.

    Mike.


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    #74
    Bob in Belfast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 216 ✭✭Bob in Belfast


    Dudess wrote: »

    It's a discussion forum.

    Yes we can discuss things then agree that you're right as usual


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    #75
    Dirk Gently
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,784 ✭✭✭Dirk Gently


    A lot I don't like about this generation of paddys but to keep the thread positive I'm proud of the music and literature, past and present. I’m also proud of the people in the 6 counties who in the last few years have over come raw human reactions and built relationships with each other despite having every reason not to. It gives me hope in humanity that they can analyse their situation, think and overcome through hard work and compromise.

    I’d be of the internationalist category too though, people are just people the world over and boarders are just lines on maps, administered by different types of governments. As far as culture goes, we’re more and more just part of a bigger fickle western culture despite all the harps and the leprechauns.


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    #76
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Yeah I really like a lot of the stuff about Ireland that you've mentioned, clown bag. I don't feel pride because of it but I do think it's great.
    Terry wrote: »
    I'm proud to be Irish because of the impact made by my ancestors on the rest of the world.

    I don't give a flying fúck if you like that or not. It's my fúcking opinion and nobody is going to change my mind.
    But you wouldn't mind someone debating the ins and outs of national pride with you though, would you?
    mike65 wrote: »
    Soon be at page 4, its warming up nicely.

    Mike.
    Correction. Soon to be page 5!
    Bob in Belfast wrote: »
    Yes we can discuss things then agree that you're right as usual
    Yeah yeah whatever. So anyway, are you gonna tell me what was wrong with me making the correct point that a lot of Irish people in Britain had to put up with a lot of sh*t in the 70s due to IRA atrocities?


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    #77
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    I have 30 posts per page Dudess. :)

    Mike.


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    #78
    Bob in Belfast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 216 ✭✭Bob in Belfast


    Dudess wrote: »

    Yeah yeah whatever. So anyway, are you gonna tell me what was wrong with me making the correct point that a lot of Irish people in Britain had to put up with a lot of sh*t in the 70s due to IRA atrocities?


    No again you are correct, sure you know everything about the troubles living down in Cork.:rolleyes:


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    #79
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Just like I failed to see where you were going with the last line, similarly I fail to see where you are going with this line.


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    #80
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Terry wrote: »
    I'm proud to be Irish because of the impact made by my ancestors on the rest of the world.

    I don't give a flying fúck if you like that or not. It's my fúcking opinion and nobody is going to change my mind.


    I'm of the same mind set.

    No one has ever made me feel ashamed to be Irish. And that included the IRA's campaign, it was a war and war is sh*t. It happens, it finishes and then we move on.

    Speaking from personal experience I've seen people's reactions to me on learning I'm Irish. I've served with the UN in Lebanon, Somalia, Ethiopia and Eritrea & Liberia. I've served with EUFOR, SFOR & KFOR in the Balkans and everywhere I've served being Irish made my job much easier, and safer.

    We've never brought war or oppression to anyone, no one has an axe to grind with us. We've always served with a huge amount of understanding and compassion and we carry an unrivelled reputation within the UNITED NATION's with both our peace keeping and peace enforcment mission's.

    Unfortunetely these days I find alot of Irish people shallow and full of self hate. It seems' they're afraid to look inside and admit that we're a proud people, that we've lots to be proud of and that its ok to sing our own praises. Thankfully these same people mature over time, become less shallow and finally find some pride in themselves.

    Hope you all had a wonderful Christmas so far.


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    #81
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Dudess wrote: »
    But you wouldn't mind someone debating the ins and outs of national pride with you though, would you?
    Not at all. Just without the pedantry.

    Yeah yeah whatever. So anyway, are you gonna tell me what was wrong with me making the correct point that a lot of Irish people in Britain had to put up with a lot of sh*t in the 70s due to IRA atrocities?

    A lot of Irish people had to put up with a lot of shít for 800 years (oh no. I said the dreaded 800 years phrase). They produced the Irish of today.
    Over all, I'd say we did fairly well.


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    #82
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mike65 wrote: »
    I have 30 posts per page Dudess. :)

    Mike.


    I'm still on page 3 (40 per page), Ignoring all the pro/anti republican guff!!!

    I'm proud to be both Irish AND English, I see nothing wrong in that!


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    #83
    Supercell
    Registered Users Posts: 15,335 ✭✭✭✭Supercell


    Interesting point there Dudess, how can one be "proud" to be Irish if you haven't contributed to the concept of "Irishness" in some significant way?

    That said, if the question was "are you happy to be Irish" then we all can answer this truthfully.

    I'm happy to come from a country with a lovely climate (I'm serious!) , lovely green countryside and generally speaking, friendly people with a rich musical and artistic heritage.

    I'm slightly ashamed to come from a place which despite our wonderful natural heritage has Gas emissions double what is allowed under the Kyoto deal, a place that admires the cute hoor, a place that will vote a politician like Bertie Ahern in again and again and again! We have a bunch of incompetent self serving idiots running the country but we keep voting them back, what does that say about us?!

    Up until recently on balance I'd say I wouldnt live anywhere else, these days I'm not sure if the positives outweigh the negatives about living here.
    https://www.loughlinstown.ie

    Have a weather station?, why not join the Ireland Weather Network - http://irelandweather.eu/



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    #84
    Dirk Gently
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,784 ✭✭✭Dirk Gently


    Mairt wrote: »
    We've always served with a huge amount of understanding and compassion and we carry an unrivelled reputation within the UNITED NATION's with both our peace keeping and peace enforcment mission's.
    .

    Thats another thing I've always admired. Our forces are well respected at UN level and always seem respectful of their host countrys citizens. The Irish forces certainly seem to make a connection with the people where ever they go.


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    #85
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Dudess wrote: »
    No. I'm saying I don't agree with people being proud of their nationality, just like I don't agree with people being made to feel ashamed of their nationality because of atrocities that were committed in their name.

    So if you feel strongly about not having pride of your nationality, should you hand back your Irish passport and maybe take one up in another nationality which has not much pride in itself and you defo feel comfa with? :D


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    #86
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    No, I just happen to be Irish. I'm not proud of it, nor am I ashamed.


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    #87
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Dudess wrote: »
    No, I just happen to be Irish. I'm not proud of it, nor am I ashamed.

    So you keeping saying.. :rolleyes:


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    #88
    Nehpets
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭Nehpets


    I would normal say "blah blah not proud of anything, just a place where I was born" but that river dance video is amazing! I hadn't seen it in ages, thank you OP.

    Another video I love on YouTube is the one with the irish team, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pazh__1Kuus

    I guess I would be proud of Ireland when Irish people pull together and do something. Shows characteristic. Could be another country - but then why didn't they do it?

    I'm not proud of being Irish just because I was born here (and not ashamed obviously).


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    #89
    Agamemnon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭Agamemnon


    Mairt wrote: »
    We've never brought war or oppression to anyone, no one has an axe to grind with us. We've always served with a huge amount of understanding and compassion and we carry an unrivelled reputation within the UNITED NATION's with both our peace keeping and peace enforcment mission's.
    Well said, Mairt. We can also be proud of the way we brought prosperity to the country after being economically on our knees for so long. That's something that all of us who've worked over the last 10-15 years can take some credit for.


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    #90
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    FruitLover wrote: »
    Can't think of much to be proud of, but it beats being English.


    what a stupid post


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    #91
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    dlofnep wrote: »
    So you keeping saying.. :rolleyes:
    I know, but I don't think gurramok gets what I'm saying.


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