20% foreign people in Ireland now - highest in Europe

darkman2

Well, we kind of knew, but its been confirmed by the CSO that 20% of the population here is now foreign. We believed we would learn from other countries mistakes in relation to integration etc but now we have raced past them and find ourselves in a difficult position that they are not even in yet! In the context of the country's practically first 'black school' open in Balbriggan (descibed in the Senate today as 'apparthied') we now have major questions that we must answer and decisions we have to take - hard ones for lefties IMO - if we are not to see potentially disastrous societal problems here in the next decade. The liberals were warned - the silent majority kept silently thinking it and now we have sleeped walked into a situation where I believe the social cohesion of this country is now being put at risk.

I read a letter in a local newsletter today from a girl in secondary school countering accusations that her classmates were racist to a black student and would not associate or talk to her. The liberals in the area hopped on it as usual. But in her letter she said this was complete rubbish and the OPPOSITE was the case. She claimed the sizeable foreign students in the secondary school were not associating with the Irish but rather just forming a large ethnic group that would not even talk to the Irish students.

Perhaps a small localised issues but the alarm bells are starting to ring now with me. We have gone too far and the hens are quickly coming home to roost - even the bleeding heart liberals are quiet now - which seems to suggest they recognise that we are heading for trouble faster then any of our EU neighbours.

Though I would of thought Kevin Myers rumblings every week in the independent about the need to quickly get our thumbs out of our ass by articulating what we all privately know is warning enough.

How much trouble are we honestly in? And what realistically can we do with enough firmness to slow this tide which simply cannot continue?

This is an issue that requires urgency.


P.S no racism please.

Blackjack

Let me be the first...


RACIALIST!!;)

eoin5

It would be better if Kevin Myers didnt say anything about this. As soon as he suggests we should do something it instantly looses all credability.

daniel3982

I'll soon be adding to it, as a British citizen whatever that means, both my parents are Irish; albeit from the North so I'm not sure where that leaves me as a statistic. Irish name, Irish looking, Feel Irish but speak with an English accent and carry a brown passport instead of a blue one :-/

Ekancone

Things will be slowing down, economically speaking, in Ireland over the next decade. With that most of the 'foreigners' will head off to wherever the money/jobs are. I dont see the big deal really.

Mr.Nice Guy

People like the OP miss the point. This is the EU's doing and this part of the European project.

When the EU constitution - now floating around under a new name - gets ratified then we will see a new voting system called "qualified majority voting" which will determine Ireland's levels of immigration...

"a qualified majority shall be defined as at least 55% of the members of the council, comprising at least 15 of them and representing member states comprising at least 65% of the population of the Union."

France and Germany combined make up 40% and the smaller nations will do whatever the big two ask of them. That means issues like immigration, and even justice issues, will be left to the EU and not ourselves.

The Dutch, who you'll remember rejected the constitution in '05, recently were told they would NOT get another vote on future reforms - even though polls show most Dutch people to be opposed to the EU's plans. Gordon Brown in the UK is refusing to give them a vote too. Here in Ireland we might have one due to the constitutional requirement for a referendum but most parties will campaign for a Yes vote and as Nice showed in '01, if they don't get the right result the first time then they'll force a second vote.

Ireland is not a net contributor to the EU - yet - and this is why we have become the dumping ground for foreign nationals that the other nation states don't want. What does it really matter about immigration levels when our sovereignty is gradually being eroded away to make room for a federal United States of Europe?

The people of Ireland have allowed us to get into this precarious situation. This is the other side to our "economic propserity". Judas had economic prosperity too when he got his thirty pieces of silver.

While I find it all quite tragic I accepted earlier in the year that most of the Irish electorate are f*cking idiots when the utterly corrupt FF were returned to power. You reap what you sow.

Joeyjoejoe43

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

While I find it all quite tragic I accepted earlier in the year that most of the Irish electorate are f*cking idiots when the utterly corrupt FF were returned to power. You reap what you sow.

I agree, muppets...

admiralofthefleet

i think we will see that as the economy slows down so to will immigration into ireland.

DonJose

darkman2 wrote:

Well, we kind of knew, but its been confirmed by the CSO that 20% of the population here is now foreign.

I'd say it could be higher than that. There are little if no immigrations controls at Dublin airport, which receives roughly over 2,000,000 incomers each month, the immigration control officer on that David McWilliams program said they turn away 400 immigrants each month, "Sure we can't turn them all away" says he When translated means we have feck all room to house the illegals. Typical goverment planning.

DonJose

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

While I find it all quite tragic I accepted earlier in the year that most of the Irish electorate are f*cking idiots when the utterly corrupt FF were returned to power. You reap what you sow.

Joeyjoejoe43 wrote:

I agree, muppets...

I agree too, well done you pack of muppets.

DonJose

admiralofthefleet wrote:

i think we will see that as the economy slows down so to will immigration into ireland.

Immigration will slow down but the immigrants will still trickle in and take more jobs from the Irish. I did the same when I moved to Germany in the early 1990's. I took a job a German wouldn't take and there were 4 million unemployed at that time. Thank fúck I'm self employed

dragonkin

any link to this report?

meglome

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

While I find it all quite tragic I accepted earlier in the year that most of the Irish electorate are f*cking idiots when the utterly corrupt FF were returned to power. You reap what you sow.

In fairness I think that so many people are in debt up to their ears it wasn't that surprising they didn't chance it and vote for someone else.

Mr.Nice Guy

meglome wrote:

In fairness I think that so many people are in debt up to their ears it wasn't that surprising they didn't chance it and vote for someone else.

Well in most countries if there was a health service that was falling apart with hospitals closing and patients forced to make long journeys to hospitals miles away etc., as well as a leader of the country that had a stench of corruption hanging over him, then the government of the day would face a backlash.

We're not most countries though. Sure last week people attending the Mahon Tribunal applauded when Ahern said he couldn't remember what he had done with his money. THEY APPLAUDED.

If that isn't evidence that we're well and truly f*cked as a nation then I don't know what is.

All those people who gave up their lives so that we Irish could have freedom and look what the end result turned out to be. A soulless corporate bitch of a country that bends over whenever Brussels demands and which has a culture of corruption that most voters will happily stomach.

This is not the Ireland I was told about when younger. This is some perverse bastardised version.

DonJose

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Well in most countries if there was a health service that was falling apart with hospitals closing and patients forced to make long journeys to hospitals miles away etc., as well as a leader of the country that had a stench of corruption hanging over him, then the government of the day would face a backlash.

We're not most countries though. Sure last week people attending the Mahon Tribunal applauded when Ahern said he couldn't remember what he had done with his money. THEY APPLAUDED.

If that isn't evidence that we're well and truly f*cked as a nation then I don't know what is.

All those people who gave up their lives so that we Irish could have freedom and look what the end result turned out to be. A soulless corporate bitch of a country that bends over whenever Brussels demands and which has a culture of corruption that most voters will happily stomach.

This is not the Ireland I was told about when younger. This is some perverse bastardised version.

Great post. I also don't understand the thinking in this country. Luckily I work from home but theres people who spend hours commuting each day, they pay €1.90 to use a 60kph motorway thats already been paid for. The health system is in shambles, theres people dying of cancer while the equipment to treat it lies unused in private hospitals which in the future will be built on public land.

North&South

You know, we too will shortly be adding to your 'foreigner' import problems. (Even though hubbys family is Irish & all over here in the UK!)

But I sit on a few committees around the town here in Blackpool & have seen the changes in the last couple of years regarding immigrants - polish in particular.
We now have a Polish PACT (Police and Community Together forum, meets monthly) We have a Polish centre to advise on housing, welfare, employment.
We have numerous Polish delis & cafes (quite cool). In 2006 the official figure for Polish residents in Blackpool alone was 38,000. And this year there are even more. I had a trip into town last week & when I got home, I realised that apart from the tram ticket man and the Marks & Spencer lady, I hadn't spoken to any other British person all day!

But I'm still quite concerned about the numbers of immigrants who are here using services that they have not contributed for... Unemployment Benefits, Health Service & Housing in particular. The numbers of immigrants signing on have meant a change for our jobcentres - there are now 2 offices here - one for the UK folks, one for the non-nationals. (And the queues are huge)
Our local people have found it nigh on impossible to find employment this year, (usually way easy in the holiday season) because of the large numbers of foreigners who work for less money - they will work for less than national minimum (but try to prove it & you have difficulty :rolleyes: ) A friend of ours was packed and ready to move into a council house - she was stopped because a Polish family was in 'urgent need'. She's still waiting & has been on the list now for over 4 years - 2 kids, a 2 bed 3rd floor flat, riddled with damp.

I'd like to think that people from other countries moved abroad in the way we are planning to move to Ireland... we are selling our house here, renting in Ireland until such time as we can buy our own - we'll have a sizeable sum in the bank, Hubby has a job to come to, daughter will find one asap, although under NO circumstances will she be claiming unemployment benefits, we have enough to support her until she's sorted. Our medical will be private & again paid for.
Is it right that we move to YOUR country & then claim favours because we can't support ourselves? No!

And that's why I don't think it's right for anyone else to do so - regardless of what country you are from, or what country you are moving to.

NB: The above are my own thoughts & opinions & not meant to generalize about the Polish, just thoughts based upon my own experiences & outlook.

SimpleSam06

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Ireland is not a net contributor to the EU - yet - and this is why we have become the dumping ground for foreign nationals that the other nation states don't want.

Have you got any evidence to back up this nonsensical piece of tripe? Net contributions vs immigrant quotas, that sort of thing? I would have thought that the last thing the EU wanted to do would be to put extra burdens on the economy of member states unable as yet to contribute.

EDIT: Oh yes, and can someone please link to this CSO report?

patto_chan

I can only find 2006 statistics on their website.
http://www.cso.ie/statistics/popnclassbyreligionandnationality2006.htm

This suggests that about 10% are non-nationals - 419,733 out of total population of 4,172,013.

Where did the '20%' come from?

Even if you throw in the 45,597 who are 'not stated/no nationality' the percentage is 11.1%.

0ubliette

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

People like the OP miss the point. This is the EU's doing and this part of the European project.

When the EU constitution - now floating around under a new name - gets ratified then we will see a new voting system called "qualified majority voting" which will determine Ireland's levels of immigration...

"a qualified majority shall be defined as at least 55% of the members of the council, comprising at least 15 of them and representing member states comprising at least 65% of the population of the Union."

France and Germany combined make up 40% and the smaller nations will do whatever the big two ask of them. That means issues like immigration, and even justice issues, will be left to the EU and not ourselves.

The Dutch, who you'll remember rejected the constitution in '05, recently were told they would NOT get another vote on future reforms - even though polls show most Dutch people to be opposed to the EU's plans. Gordon Brown in the UK is refusing to give them a vote too. Here in Ireland we might have one due to the constitutional requirement for a referendum but most parties will campaign for a Yes vote and as Nice showed in '01, if they don't get the right result the first time then they'll force a second vote.

Ireland is not a net contributor to the EU - yet - and this is why we have become the dumping ground for foreign nationals that the other nation states don't want. What does it really matter about immigration levels when our sovereignty is gradually being eroded away to make room for a federal United States of Europe?

The people of Ireland have allowed us to get into this precarious situation. This is the other side to our "economic propserity". Judas had economic prosperity too when he got his thirty pieces of silver.

While I find it all quite tragic I accepted earlier in the year that most of the Irish electorate are f*cking idiots when the utterly corrupt FF were returned to power. You reap what you sow.

Good post, interesting, i hadnt heard of the EU treaty before. Also fully agree with the re-electionf of FF. I said it back then, if we vote them back in, we deserve everything we get. Well dont blame me, cause i didnt fcuking vote for them!

um7y1h83ge06nx

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Well in most countries if there was a health service that was falling apart with hospitals closing and patients forced to make long journeys to hospitals miles away etc., as well as a leader of the country that had a stench of corruption hanging over him, then the government of the day would face a backlash.

We're not most countries though. Sure last week people attending the Mahon Tribunal applauded when Ahern said he couldn't remember what he had done with his money. THEY APPLAUDED.

If that isn't evidence that we're well and truly f*cked as a nation then I don't know what is.

All those people who gave up their lives so that we Irish could have freedom and look what the end result turned out to be. A soulless corporate bitch of a country that bends over whenever Brussels demands and which has a culture of corruption that most voters will happily stomach.

This is not the Ireland I was told about when younger. This is some perverse bastardised version.

[RANT]Well said. If Bertie and Co. said they would round us up and gas us we probably would still vote for them.

I'm hanging on for the next Daniel O' Connell or Micheal Collins to come along and lead the people against these fúckers.

Sounds like a gross exaggeration, but I'm truly sick of all the corruption and the fact that the Dáil looks down on us with a huge air of arrogance.

In my eyes some of them (the late CJ Haughey for example) are traitors and should be severely dealt with by the people.[/Rant]

skywalker

North&South wrote:

You know, we too will shortly be adding to your 'foreigner' import problems. (Even though hubbys family is Irish & all over here in the UK!)

But I sit on a few committees around the town here in Blackpool & have seen the changes in the last couple of years regarding immigrants - polish in particular.
We now have a Polish PACT (Police and Community Together forum, meets monthly) We have a Polish centre to advise on housing, welfare, employment.
We have numerous Polish delis & cafes (quite cool). In 2006 the official figure for Polish residents in Blackpool alone was 38,000. And this year there are even more. I had a trip into town last week & when I got home, I realised that apart from the tram ticket man and the Marks & Spencer lady, I hadn't spoken to any other British person all day!

But I'm still quite concerned about the numbers of immigrants who are here using services that they have not contributed for... Unemployment Benefits, Health Service & Housing in particular. The numbers of immigrants signing on have meant a change for our jobcentres - there are now 2 offices here - one for the UK folks, one for the non-nationals. (And the queues are huge)
Our local people have found it nigh on impossible to find employment this year, (usually way easy in the holiday season) because of the large numbers of foreigners who work for less money - they will work for less than national minimum (but try to prove it & you have difficulty :rolleyes: ) A friend of ours was packed and ready to move into a council house - she was stopped because a Polish family was in 'urgent need'. She's still waiting & has been on the list now for over 4 years - 2 kids, a 2 bed 3rd floor flat, riddled with damp.

I'd like to think that people from other countries moved abroad in the way we are planning to move to Ireland... we are selling our house here, renting in Ireland until such time as we can buy our own - we'll have a sizeable sum in the bank, Hubby has a job to come to, daughter will find one asap, although under NO circumstances will she be claiming unemployment benefits, we have enough to support her until she's sorted. Our medical will be private & again paid for.
Is it right that we move to YOUR country & then claim favours because we can't support ourselves? No!

And that's why I don't think it's right for anyone else to do so - regardless of what country you are from, or what country you are moving to.

NB: The above are my own thoughts & opinions & not meant to generalize about the Polish, just thoughts based upon my own experiences & outlook.

Great post, wish everyone thought like you.

ejmaztec

So, what would Ireland be like now, had it not joined the EU back in '73? I think that it would be pretty much the same, where there were more donkeys than tractors, less tarmacced roads, more emigration, zero immigration. The only thing that would not have changed would have been the supply of brown envelopes. Politicians made money even when there wasn't any.

TwoShedsJackson

So where's a link to this report then?

Kevin Myers should be weighing in on this soon enough anyway, he only has three topics - Muslims and how they're all terrorist, darkies coming over here taking our jobs and our women, and the Black & Tans.

arybvtcw0eolkf

North&South wrote:

You know, we too will shortly be adding to your 'foreigner' import problems. (Even though hubbys family is Irish & all over here in the UK!)

But I sit on a few committees around the town here in Blackpool & have seen the changes in the last couple of years regarding immigrants - polish in particular.
We now have a Polish PACT (Police and Community Together forum, meets monthly) We have a Polish centre to advise on housing, welfare, employment.
We have numerous Polish delis & cafes (quite cool). In 2006 the official figure for Polish residents in Blackpool alone was 38,000. And this year there are even more. I had a trip into town last week & when I got home, I realised that apart from the tram ticket man and the Marks & Spencer lady, I hadn't spoken to any other British person all day!

But I'm still quite concerned about the numbers of immigrants who are here using services that they have not contributed for... Unemployment Benefits, Health Service & Housing in particular. The numbers of immigrants signing on have meant a change for our jobcentres - there are now 2 offices here - one for the UK folks, one for the non-nationals. (And the queues are huge)
Our local people have found it nigh on impossible to find employment this year, (usually way easy in the holiday season) because of the large numbers of foreigners who work for less money - they will work for less than national minimum (but try to prove it & you have difficulty :rolleyes: ) A friend of ours was packed and ready to move into a council house - she was stopped because a Polish family was in 'urgent need'. She's still waiting & has been on the list now for over 4 years - 2 kids, a 2 bed 3rd floor flat, riddled with damp.

I'd like to think that people from other countries moved abroad in the way we are planning to move to Ireland... we are selling our house here, renting in Ireland until such time as we can buy our own - we'll have a sizeable sum in the bank, Hubby has a job to come to, daughter will find one asap, although under NO circumstances will she be claiming unemployment benefits, we have enough to support her until she's sorted. Our medical will be private & again paid for.
Is it right that we move to YOUR country & then claim favours because we can't support ourselves? No!

And that's why I don't think it's right for anyone else to do so - regardless of what country you are from, or what country you are moving to.

NB: The above are my own thoughts & opinions & not meant to generalize about the Polish, just thoughts based upon my own experiences & outlook.

Nice post, but your going to encounter the very same problems here.

Me for instance. I've done 22yrs in the Defence Forces and for the last few had planned on retiring at 21 yrs (with pension) and setting myself up with a taxi to suppliment my pension. As I come from an IT section I'm also qualified for other work too and if I was in dire straits security work would have been another option.

So where do I find myself now?.. Well I'm still in the Defence Forces, I studied for and passed my S.P.V.S. (taxi) test and worked it for a short time. But its not viable anymore due to the number of (mostly Africans) immigrants licenced and working it now. So I looked at the IT sector, same problem there but with East Europeans working for a salery I couldn't possibly live on. So I'm stuck in the army and am genuinely scared of what the future holds for me and my children.

Here's another. My family have lived in Ballymun since it 1969. We lived in the 'flats first then in the 80's got a house in Poppintree, its a three bed.

Due to unfortunete circunstances my younger brother and my sister broke up with their partners. My brother & sister both have one child each. And all living with my parents in the three bed house.

All was looking rosie with the Ballymun regeneration project, but as new apartments and house's became availably both my brother and sister was pushed further and further back on the waiting list as immigrants where given priority on availably housing.

Now my brother, sister and my parents future is as uncertain as mine.

Both are working fulltime in jobs under threat from foreign migrant workers willing to under cut their wages.

My advice would be don't come to Ireland thinking its any better than you have it there, its not.

mickoneill30

Mairt wrote:

So where do I find myself now?.. Well I'm still in the Defence Forces, I studied for and passed my S.P.V.S. (taxi) test and worked it for a short time. But its not viable anymore due to the number of (mostly Africans) immigrants licenced and working it now. So I looked at the IT sector, same problem there but with East Europeans working for a salery I couldn't possibly live on. So I'm stuck in the army and am genuinely scared of what the future holds for me and my children.

I'm in IT too. Have been for 15 years. I've no problem with immigrants working for a salary I couldn't live on. I'm about to start a new job much closer to home to get rid of my commute. I was looking for about 3 months and being very picky about what interviews I went to. By the way, I'm nothing special in IT. There are a hell of a lot of low paying jobs advertised on the jobs pages but ignore those. You'll see jobs advertised for €20K -> €30K when they should be way more. People will take those jobs but the employer is getting what they pay for (i.e. either someone who's got little experience or someone who just needs any job while they're looking for a better one). If you're anyway halfway decent you'll be on a lot more. If you're not in a hurry go for the bigger paying jobs. You'll get one after a couple of months.

I have been contemplating going down the taxi job route. My brother started working as a taxi driver last year and by doing the calculations I could live on what he's earning with no probs, (I'm married with mortgage and my wife is working too in an average paying job). My only problem is I'm not a people person (I know a lot of taxi drivers aren't anyway )and it'd probably do my head in so that's whats kept me away, the hours too I suppose.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

20%? That means that 5 of the previous posters in this thread (out of 25 posters) are foreign. My money is on people like 'Mickoneill' - obviously trying too hard with the fake irish name.

cjt156

Well I'm a "muppet" who did vote for the current government (except for the limp-dick-Greens). Mainly because I couldn't in my wildest dreams imagine Enda (highlights) Kenny and Pat (pompous windbag) Rabbitte running the country any better.

And the only comprehensive official survey of the Irish population is the census, which I believe put the number of ethnic non-Irish at 10% (I'm trawling my memory - I'll go look it up now)

SimpleSam06

Roundtower2 wrote:

20%? That means that 5 of the previous posters in this thread (out of 25 posters) are foreign. My money is on people like 'Mickoneill' - obviously trying too hard with the fake irish name.

Definetely something suspect with that "report". I vote that either the report gets produced or the thread gets locked.

mickoneill30

Roundtower2 wrote:

20%? That means that 5 of the previous posters in this thread (out of 25 posters) are foreign. My money is on people like 'Mickoneill' - obviously trying too hard with the fake irish name.

Yeah trying so hard that I've posted over 600 posts to build up my reputation in preparation for this thread. That's planning for ya. Mick O'Neill is such an uncommon name in Ireland. I must be fake. Muppet. Just because I don't post something negative doesn't mean I'm foreign.

Terry

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Definetely something suspect with that "report". I vote that either the report gets produced or the thread gets locked.

I'm sorry.
You didn't vote FF, so your vote doesn't count.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40U063Oh83c

I often wonder what the British, Americans, Australians, German, French etc. thought of the Irish pre 1990's.


Mickoneill, please turn on your sarcasm detector.

cjt156

Terry wrote:

I often wonder what the British, Americans, Australians, German, French etc. thought of the Irish pre 1990's.

I reckon they thought we were a load of poor, humble drunks. Now they think we're rich, arrogant drunks. That's progress, see!

barclay2

First of all, i have to point out that it is only 10% of the republic's population are foreign nationals. The CSO, who were referred to as support for the 20% figure in the original post here, counted 419733 in the country out of a population of about 4.2 million (see http://www.cso.ie/statistics/popnclassbyreligionandnationality2006.htm for confirmation of this). The only 20% figure i think you might have found is that 20% of first time buyers are now foreign nationals, available here http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/0820/breaking52.htm.

Secondly, Mr Nice Guy, i have to disagree with some of what you've said.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

People like the OP miss the point. This is the EU's doing and this part of the European project.

When the EU constitution - now floating around under a new name - gets ratified then we will see a new voting system called "qualified majority voting" which will determine Ireland's levels of immigration...

"a qualified majority shall be defined as at least 55% of the members of the council, comprising at least 15 of them and representing member states comprising at least 65% of the population of the Union."

France and Germany combined make up 40% and the smaller nations will do whatever the big two ask of them. That means issues like immigration, and even justice issues, will be left to the EU and not ourselves.

The Dutch, who you'll remember rejected the constitution in '05, recently were told they would NOT get another vote on future reforms - even though polls show most Dutch people to be opposed to the EU's plans. Gordon Brown in the UK is refusing to give them a vote too. Here in Ireland we might have one due to the constitutional requirement for a referendum but most parties will campaign for a Yes vote and as Nice showed in '01, if they don't get the right result the first time then they'll force a second vote.

Ireland is not a net contributor to the EU - yet - and this is why we have become the dumping ground for foreign nationals that the other nation states don't want. What does it really matter about immigration levels when our sovereignty is gradually being eroded away to make room for a federal United States of Europe?

The people of Ireland have allowed us to get into this precarious situation. This is the other side to our "economic propserity". Judas had economic prosperity too when he got his thirty pieces of silver.

While I find it all quite tragic I accepted earlier in the year that most of the Irish electorate are f*cking idiots when the utterly corrupt FF were returned to power. You reap what you sow.

Firstly, when you say people miss the point that "this is the EU's doing", what exactly do you mean? WHAT is the EU's doing? If you're referring to ireland's high rate of immigration, then i think what you've said is not fair. Our high rate of immigration is due above all else to our relative economic success compared to other developed countries, and this entirely welcome success in turn was due in no small part to Ireland's membership in the EU single market. And furthermore, the boom of recent years, particularly in construction, simply would not have been possible without immigrant workers - otherwise either enough workers would not have been available or wages would have been pushed up even higher, driving ireland's inflation and cost base even further upwards than it already is.

Secondly, Qualified Majority Voting already exists and hasnt hurt ireland's interests significantly, the new treaty will simply extend it to new policy areas.

Third, France and Germany combined make up less than a third of the EU's population, not 40%, and you dont specify why small nations would just "do what the big nations tell them to do" (especially since they'd need 13 smaller nations to form a qualified majority). Why would small nations just fall in line in a system where each state is legally equal? Nor do you specify why those big nations would necessarily agree with EACH OTHER in the first place. Right now France and Germany have huge disagreements over the future of the Euro (http://www.dailyreckoning.co.uk/article/thefrancogermaneurodebate0355.html).

Fourth, regard Nice and the fact that the parties "forced" a second vote, so the hell what? Nobody can force the country to vote differently, if we want a referendum passed or rejected then we just have to turn out and vote. Thats what happened in the second Nice referendum, turnout in the first one having been as low as around 30% or so.

Fifth and finally, i think we're hardly a "dumping ground" for people that other european nations dont want. We're (for now at least) a uniquely attractive destination for other europeans who want to work, we're an economy that has benefited from migrant workers filling job vacancies and keeping wages from spiralling even higher, and other european nations DO want these people e.g. the polish government is trying to attract emigrants to come home for economic reasons, http://www.eubusiness.com/Poland/1190222221.36

barclay2

First of all, i have to point out that it is only 10% of the republic's population are foreign nationals. The CSO, who were referred to as support for the 20% figure in the original post here, counted 419733 in the country out of a population of about 4.2 million (see http://www.cso.ie/statistics/popnclassbyreligionandnationality2006.htm for confirmation of this). The only 20% figure i think you might have found is that 20% of first time buyers are now foreign nationals, available here http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/0820/breaking52.htm.

Secondly, Mr Nice Guy, i have to disagree with some of what you've said.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

People like the OP miss the point. This is the EU's doing and this part of the European project.

When the EU constitution - now floating around under a new name - gets ratified then we will see a new voting system called "qualified majority voting" which will determine Ireland's levels of immigration...

"a qualified majority shall be defined as at least 55% of the members of the council, comprising at least 15 of them and representing member states comprising at least 65% of the population of the Union."

France and Germany combined make up 40% and the smaller nations will do whatever the big two ask of them. That means issues like immigration, and even justice issues, will be left to the EU and not ourselves.

The Dutch, who you'll remember rejected the constitution in '05, recently were told they would NOT get another vote on future reforms - even though polls show most Dutch people to be opposed to the EU's plans. Gordon Brown in the UK is refusing to give them a vote too. Here in Ireland we might have one due to the constitutional requirement for a referendum but most parties will campaign for a Yes vote and as Nice showed in '01, if they don't get the right result the first time then they'll force a second vote.

Ireland is not a net contributor to the EU - yet - and this is why we have become the dumping ground for foreign nationals that the other nation states don't want. What does it really matter about immigration levels when our sovereignty is gradually being eroded away to make room for a federal United States of Europe?

The people of Ireland have allowed us to get into this precarious situation. This is the other side to our "economic propserity". Judas had economic prosperity too when he got his thirty pieces of silver.

While I find it all quite tragic I accepted earlier in the year that most of the Irish electorate are f*cking idiots when the utterly corrupt FF were returned to power. You reap what you sow.

Firstly, when you say people miss the point that "this is the EU's doing", what exactly do you mean? WHAT is the EU's doing? If you're referring to ireland's high rate of immigration, then i think what you've said is not fair. Our high rate of immigration is due above all else to our relative economic success compared to other developed countries, and this entirely welcome success in turn was due in no small part to Ireland's membership in the EU single market. And furthermore, the boom of recent years, particularly in construction, simply would not have been possible without immigrant workers - otherwise either enough workers would not have been available or wages would have been pushed up even higher, driving ireland's inflation and cost base even further upwards than it already is.

Secondly, Qualified Majority Voting already exists and hasnt hurt ireland's interests significantly, the new treaty will simply extend it to new policy areas.

Third, France and Germany combined make up less than a third of the EU's population, not 40%, and you dont specify why small nations would just "do what the big nations tell them to do" (especially since they'd need 13 smaller nations to form a qualified majority)? Nor do you specify why those big nations would necessarily agree with EACH OTHER in the first place. Right now France and Germany have huge disagreements over the future of the Euro (http://www.dailyreckoning.co.uk/article/thefrancogermaneurodebate0355.html).

Fourth, regard Nice and the fact that the parties "forced" a second vote, so the hell what? Nobody can force the country to vote differently, if we want a referendum passed or rejected then we just have to turn out and vote. Thats what happened in the second Nice referendum, turnout in the first one having been as low as around 30% or so.

Fifth and finally, i think we're hardly a "dumping ground" for people that other european nations dont want. We're (for now at least) a uniquely attractive destination for other europeans who want to work, we're an economy that has benefited from migrant workers filling job vacancies and keeping wages from spiralling even higher, and other european nations DO want these people e.g. the polish government is trying to attract emigrants to come home for economic reasons, http://www.eubusiness.com/Poland/1190222221.36

eirebhoy

Is there any figures for the percentage of non-nationals living in Dublin? I'd say that's a lot closer to 20%.

gerky

I know this is off topic but just balancing the lazy dole collecting foreigner bulls**t.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/ireland/article2980507.ece

gerky

also while looking for something awhile back I came across this, again sorry for being off topic.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

mickoneill30 wrote:

Yeah trying so hard that I've posted over 600 posts to build up my reputation in preparation for this thread. That's planning for ya. Mick O'Neill is such an uncommon name in Ireland. I must be fake. Muppet. Just because I don't post something negative doesn't mean I'm foreign.

lol, you didn't maybe suspect that i was joking with my post did you? :rolleyes:

the_syco

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

While I find it all quite tragic I accepted earlier in the year that most of the Irish electorate are f*cking idiots when the utterly corrupt FF were returned to power. You reap what you sow.

You reap what you sow. FG didn't get anything, as they sowed nothing. They opposed FF, but only opposed, and didn't offer any realistic alternatives, only idealistic alternatives, which sounded great, but wouldn't get done.

A lot of people will still associate FG with unemployed 1980's Ireland, and FF with the jobs. True, there is an argument that FF were in the right place, at the right time, as the Celtic Tiger would have happened regardless, even if FG was left in power, but they weren't, and thus FF got that "bonus point" in history. This will be remembered when people go to the polls to vote.

Roundtower2 wrote:

20%? That means that 5 of the previous posters in this thread (out of 25 posters) are foreign. My money is on people like 'Mickoneill' - obviously trying too hard with the fake irish name.

mickoneill30 wrote:

Mick O'Neill is such an uncommon name in Ireland. I must be fake. Muppet.

If you can't see the sarcasm in his post, you need a drink, badly.

barclay2 wrote:

Fifth and finally, i think we're hardly a "dumping ground" for people that other european nations dont want.

Although I agree with what you say, I'd also like to say that a lot of countries (example: France) don't take in many refugee's, but somehow people get to get in here by the boatload.

In saying that, France, during the 70's, had taken in a lot of cheap foreign workers, and now, two generations on, they are living in ghetto's, and are pretty violent. I wonder how Ireland will handle the current foreigners 2nd generation, if we don't integrate them properly?

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

reminds me of the joke:

"One out of every five people in the world is Chinese. Check four of your friends - if none of them is Chinese, it is you."

or:

"Apparently one in five people in the world are Chinese. And there are five people in my family, so it must be one of them. It's either my mum or my dad. Or my older brother Colin. Or my younger brother Ho-Cha-Chu. But I think it's Colin."

mickoneill30

the_syco wrote:

If you can't see the sarcasm in his post, you need a drink, badly.
...

Although I agree with what you say, I'd also like to say that a lot of countries (example: France) don't take in many refugee's, but somehow people get to get in here by the boatload.

It's hard to tell what is sarcasm and what is typed by someone with no clue.

Ireland had 4,300 refugee applications in 2006. France had 30,690.
Page 10
http://www.unhcr.org/statistics/STATISTICS/460150272.pdf

The thread isn't just about refugees though. Not every foreign person here is a refugee.

gurramok

Funny that when people employed in lower income jobs start getting displaced, not a whisper is said.
But when its middle income jobs, you'll hear about it in the media.

Anyway, if you voted for Nice(once or twice ), you knew what was coming so you have no grounds for giving out about immigration.

OP, of that 10% foreign...the biggest group is from the UK(112,000), are they a threat?
Remember, some of them would have Irish connections, some not unlike the easten Europeans.
Also, something to think about is that the overpaid public service is something like 99% Irish(read it somewhere, don't have link), about time their jobs were outsourced!:D

mickoneill30

gurramok wrote:

Funny that when people employed in lower income jobs start getting displaced, not a whisper is said.
But when its middle income jobs, you'll hear about it in the media.

Are they getting displaced though? What's the unemployment rate in Ireland? I don't know the number but I thought it was pretty low. Could be wrong there.

Edit: Found the answer myself. 4.5% during Q2 2007 (That's all people (on the register I suppose) over 15)
http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Dialog/varval.asp?ma=QNBQ4&ti=ILO+participation+and+unemployment+rates+by+Age,+Sex,+Quarter+and+Statistic&path=../Database/Eirestat/Quarterly%20National%20Household%20Survey/&lang=1

North&South

Mairt wrote:

.............................................

My advice would be don't come to Ireland thinking its any better than you have it there, its not.

Mairt, I absolutely hear what you're saying there & yes, it's becoming a massive problem in both Ireland & the UK - in the south of the UK 10 years ago there was a huge influx of kosovans & they did untold damage to the south coast, in that they took on jobs & pushed the unemployment of locals to such a level that it's never recovered from. I moved just before that happened, although family there suffered adversely from the domino effect.

We're not moving to get away from this sort of thing though, thankfully!

We came over to Ireland a few weeks ago on a widespread 'interview week'. Hubby had interviews in Sligo, Galway & Cork & yep, we were greeted in hotels & shops & pubs by a lot of EU immigrants - it was interesting to see so many Polish signs up & at the same time, it was quite refreshing to see shops etc advertising for staff & specifically requesting 'English Speaking Only'...... now, wouldn't THAT be nice here!

No, we're moving for a change of life on a personal basis - the fact that hubby will get some time off for a start - & that's not a financial thing either, he works with 5 other engineers & they cover 24/7 in their factory - not much time for time at home

The only REAL argument I have with ANY migrant person/s is that they plan carefully & PAY THEIR WAY! We are going to - I wouldn't expect to do anything else, & personally I think it's downright disgusting when folks move country just because of what they can get for free......

I shall get off me box now & go have a coffee.....!

(I must say though, that looking at the info on the citizens information website - wow! The difference in benefits alone between the UK & Ireland is worth a whole new thread by itself!)

gurramok

mickoneill30 wrote:

Are they getting displaced though? What's the unemployment rate in Ireland? I don't know the number but I thought it was pretty low. Could be wrong there.

Edit: Found the answer myself. 4.5% during Q2 2007 (That's all people (on the register I suppose) over 15)
http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Dialog/varval.asp?ma=QNBQ4&ti=ILO+participation+and+unemployment+rates+by+Age,+Sex,+Quarter+and+Statistic&path=../Database/Eirestat/Quarterly%20National%20Household%20Survey/&lang=1

They might start getting displaced in the downturn, too many employed expensively in construction for example which has only recently started the long unwind.
I reckon we'll know more about if any displacement happens within the year and it depends on the attitude of Irish employers as well, whether they want to cut costs by hiring cheaper foreign workers or employ mostly Irish by keeping locals in a job, interesting times ahead.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

mickoneill30 wrote:

It's hard to tell what is sarcasm and what is typed by someone with no clue.

Ireland had 4,300 refugee applications in 2006. France had 30,690.
Page 10
http://www.unhcr.org/statistics/STATISTICS/460150272.pdf

The thread isn't just about refugees though. Not every foreign person here is a refugee.

While i think Ireland, given our history, should be more accepting of refugees, the figures you quote don't help matters as they can be easily contradicted. Ireland has refugees that represent 1 in 1000 people in the country, while France has refugees that represent 1 in 2000 people in their country - so France does take relatively small numbers of refugees as the previous poster to your message had said.

Fratton Fred

Directing the resentment at immigrants is letting the government off the hook. The lack of resources has been caused by this government, not a few thousand immigrants who, in the main, have every right to come and work in Ireland. Having a school where the majority of kids are Black is not over immigration, it is a criminal over dependance on the catholic church to provide education.

The government in this country takes in collossal amounts of cash from tolls, stamp duty, taxes and yet has no national health service, a poor excuse of a defense force (No offence to the members, but I don't think anyone will say that the PDF is anything other than underfunded) yet where does the money go? its only recently this country has had to pay to build it's own roads/railways and trams, the schools are paid for by the Churches and new hospitals are privately built.

There is a black hole in this country that is consuming money that should be spent on essential services and all the time people are blaming "Immigrants" it is deflecting the issue.

rant over.:rolleyes:

patrickolee

gurramok wrote:

They might start getting displaced in the downturn, too many employed expensively in construction for example which has only recently started the long unwind.
I reckon we'll know more about if any displacement happens within the year and it depends on the attitude of Irish employers as well, whether they want to cut costs by hiring cheaper foreign workers or employ mostly Irish by keeping locals in a job, interesting times ahead.

Not just the construction industry to be honest. It's starting in IT now too. Not the immigrants fault, but I can understand now why the tradesmen were so angry.

DonJose

gurramok wrote:

They might start getting displaced in the downturn, too many employed expensively in construction for example which has only recently started the long unwind.

Its not just the construction sector, the high paying jobs in manufacturing are being lost. Ireland lost its competitive years ago. Only today Tyco announced 178 job loses at Shannon. A lot of those people worked at Tyco for 20 years. Where do you see these people finding jobs.

http://rte.ie/business/2007/0927/jobs.html

DonJose

patrickolee wrote:

Not just the construction industry to be honest. It's starting in IT now too. Not the immigrants fault, but I can understand now why the tradesmen were so angry.

On the positive side, a couple of years ago it was almost impossible to get a plumber/electrician to do a small job, they would charge over €100 to install a washing machine which would take under 2 hours to fit. In a way I'm glad that theres more competition in the constrcution sector. I'm building early next year and the builder uses only guys from Chechnya. The savings are passed onto me.

DonJose

Roundtower2 wrote:

While i think Ireland, given our history, should be more accepting of refugees

I've nothing against accepting genuine refugees, I'll gladly accept Iraqi refugees over Nigerian economic migrants posing as refugees.

big b

DonJose wrote:

Only today Tyco announced 178 job loses at Shannon. A lot of those people worked at Tyco for 20 years. Where do you see these people finding jobs.

Well, it won't be commuting through Heathrow.

Another kick in the nads for the west.