20% foreign people in Ireland now - highest in Europe

K-9

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

The German ambassador disagrees with me does he? And?

He said Irelands' economic was mainly due to the hard work of the Irish, not EU funding. You disagree. And?

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Connolly regarded himself as Irish and I regard him as Irish. Perhaps you're one of those types who regards Connolly, Dev, Larkin etc. as foreign. I'm not.

Your avoiding the point. He was born in a foreign country. Immigrants are born in foreign countries.

MR.NICE GUY wrote:

I agree immigration was due to "economic prosperity" but I don't see it in the way you see it. I see the extraordinarily high levels of immigration here as the price we've had to pay for our increased wealth. Nothing is free in this world. And the point I'm making with Judas is that sometimes, believe it or not, money is not the most valuable possession to have. Principles, traditions etc. are worth more. Well to me anyway.

Thank God the Americans didn't take the same line after the Famine.

MR.Nice Guy wrote:

I imagine Connolly didn't die so that capitalists could flout "economic prosperity" as a fair trade-off for the freedom he fought and died for. Nor do I imagine he'd approve of people saying "so the hell what" over Irish opinions being ignored by foreigners in Brussels seeking to impose their agenda on us whether we want it or not.

We had the freedom to impose restrictions on Romania and Bulgaria because it suited us. We had no restrictions a couple of years ago because it was decided it was in our interest. We then had the freedom to change our policy.

liberty 2007

The reason we find ourselves in this position and no idea how to deal with it, is because the mass media have suppressed any opposition and demonised anyone who dared to question what was happening. Only recently, some of them have broken ranks. Perhaps they to are fearful for the their childrens future.

crianp

You know I am from the USA, Massachusetts to be specific and I have been over to ireland a bunch of times to visit my family who lives here, why they do is beyond me but this post is characteristic of a society who is afraid of cultural intergration. Immigration is good thing, I will admit that there are some bad aspects to the process but looking at it from a business point of view, if everyone in Ireland was just Irish. That would be just one way of looking at things. The two biggest majorities here are Chinese and Polish and they add something to the otherwise mono-national Ireland. These people bring in a multitude of views, talents and resources into the country.

I don't want to be one of those people that says this but America is not perfect either but I will talk about the town where I am from. Worcester,MA. There is approximately 50% white 50% Black/Hispanic and let me tell you people don't complain about those damn "hispanics". The only thing they complain about is those damn republicans or maybe that the redsox lost to the Yankees. The bottom line is that you Irish need to get over the fact of Foreigners coming to live here, America is comprised with Foreigners and despite the past, it has only made the country stronger. Ireland needs to accept that Foreign people will give this country the edge it needs to remain competitive in the world otherwise you might as well become the 51st State.

Macha

If all the immigrants left tomorrow our economy would collapse. Be careful what you wish for...

Terry

crianp wrote:

You know I am from the USA, Massachusetts to be specific and I have been over to ireland a bunch of times to visit my family who lives here, why they do is beyond me but this post is characteristic of a society who is afraid of cultural intergration.

Post colonial mentality.
We only got rid of the brits 85 years ago.
Plenty of people grew up with stories about how bad things were under them.
These stories were passed from father to son and so on.

Fear of this happening again is the reason behind the unwillingness of some people to accept integration.

Ireland needs to accept that Foreign people will give this country the edge it needs to remain competitive in the world otherwise you might as well become the 51st State.

That would be 52nd, No?

Those across the water already joined the union.

Ekancone

taconnol wrote:

If all the immigrants left tomorrow our economy would collapse. Be careful what you wish for...

Yeah but they arent 'all' going to leave now are they? Even if things slowed down here, they would at most trickle out a hell of a lot slower than the rate they arrived at. We would have time to adjust.

Macha

Look how quickly the Irish left Ireland in the 80s: we were losing 40,000 people a year.

Our biggest export at the time? People

So no - I wouldn't be so sure they won't leave so quickly. Especially with the certain xenophobic elements in Irish society making their feelings known.

J.S. Pill

I'm sure there's going to be a separate thread on this, but did anyone see Kevin Myres on the Late Late this evening?*

The audience questions bit was quite funny. A very sterotypical UCD arts student type questioned Myres' assertion that Dublin was 50% asian. Turns out Myres was talking about Leicester city - the said studenty type just wasn't listening. With an attention span like that, I'm sure this guy learned a lot from the few second year sociology lectures he went to.

*I have a good excuse for staying in on a friday night by the ways

Oilrig

I think the general consensus is that we wish to remain as an identifiable race ie "Irish" and all that goes with it...

But we also have to recognise the situation and positive input the "non nationals" (!) have made to our present economic situation. Bottom line, we couldn't have done it without them.

Hagar

Oilrig wrote:

But we also have to recognise the situation and positive input the "non nationals" (!) have made to our present economic situation. Bottom line, we couldn't have done it without them.

I'm all ears, tell me something we couldn't have done without them?

Ekancone

taconnol wrote:

Look how quickly the Irish left Ireland in the 80s: we were losing 40,000 people a year.

Our biggest export at the time? People

So no - I wouldn't be so sure they won't leave so quickly. Especially with the certain xenophobic elements in Irish society making their feelings known.

Yeah, and look at how bad things were in the 80's. Thats not analogous to this situation - so no - we wont be returning to human meat exports anytime soon. Despite what McWilliams & Co are saying, we are nowhere near as bad as that situation. If there are fewer jobs being created and some lost then, yes, some immigrants will leave and some will stop coming. But to be honest, as long as wages here remain four times higher than back home i cant imagine the ones who already have jobs leaving too soon, even with certain xenophobic feelings lingering in the air.

bug

I rarely speak about my views on immigration due to the fear of being labelled a racist. I think this is true of a lot of people.

I voted against the nice treaty. And I find the tone of this thread amazing and absolutely in contrast to those around that time.

We currently have a government, FF, which as far as I'm concerned got in because we have this culture in Ireland like a father and son supporting a team in the British Premier League. Vote for who your Da does. Be part of the tribe.

I grant them this. There is no alternative.
And they put the spinning top on Tony Blair. They are completely corporate.

They are completely and utterly socially irresponsible.

The problem with immigration isn't immigrants.
The problem with immigration is integration. And it was left up to me and you. The general joe soaps.

Our government did sweet fuk all to provide schemes to integrate cultural groups. They sat on their hands and whistled when the subject was bandied about in taxis, at home or on the streets between owl women who hadn't seen a black man since he was studying in the RSC in the 40's.

I for one, don't give a fuk about the economy, like most countries, it'll leave us in the **** and we'll bounce back in the next generation or so. Either way we'll muddle on through with no cash if needs be like we did in the eighties.

What I don't want is people turning against each other because our government are so corrupt they are caught up in tribunals proving they were more corrupt than we already thought they were while Ireland bubbles under an underlying mistrust and frustration of their immigrants without knowing the facts. Sure why would they? It was never provided to them or spoken about!

We were voting for jobs remember?

Macha

My point that is people underestimated how quickly the population could decrease back then. Obviously the two situations are different but there are similarities.

And it isn't just a question of jobs, it's also about what type of job. It's been said to death but our construction industry is grossly overinflated and a lot of the workers in this area are immigrants. Unless they can retrain into other areas such as infrastructure, they will go elsewhere. Again, obviously not all of them and no one can guess how many but there is the possibility that quite a few will go.

There are a lot of construction jobs being created in the UK due to the 2012 Olypmics. My guess is that some will go there. People will always follow the jobs

Terry

bug wrote:

We currently have a government, FF, which as far as I'm concerned got in because we have this culture in Ireland like a father and son supporting a team in the British Premier League. Vote for who your Da does. Be part of the tribe.

Completely true.

I remember my first time voting. I asked my father who he had voted for.
He told me that it didn't matter who he had voted for and that I should make my own decision on who I cast my vote for and to make my decision based on their work in the communty.
Turns out we both voted for the same person. Wasn't a FF candidate though.

The fact is though that there are plenty of people out there who would tel their children to vote for a certain person because it's the family thing to do.
I hate that crap.

ferdi

Appart from the comment about 'no headscarves in public places' i agree wholeheartedly with everythin Kevin Myers said tonight on the Late Late.

K-9

Terry wrote:

Completely true.

I remember my first time voting. I asked my father who he had voted for.
He told me that it didn't matter who he had voted for and that I should make my own decision on who I cast my vote for and to make my decision based on their work in the communty.
Turns out we both voted for the same person. Wasn't a FF candidate though.

The fact is though that there are plenty of people out there who would tel their children to vote for a certain person because it's the family thing to do.
I hate that crap.

The problem was there was no alternative to vote for.Just because you and your father thought voting non-FF was the answer, doesn't mean it was now. I didn't see a Garret Fitzgerald charcater in this election (bumbling idiot he was) but he had a vision.

eoin5

ferdi wrote:

Appart from the comment about 'no headscarves in public places' i agree wholeheartedly with everythin Kevin Myers said tonight on the Late Late.

I didnt see the show. Did he start on about "Islamists" again? Imo that stuff wrote off all his credability forever.

Terry

Seanies32 wrote:

The problem was there was no alternative to vote for.Just because you and your father thought voting non-FF was the answer, doesn't mean it was now. I didn't see a Garret Fitzgerald charcater in this election (bumbling idiot he was) but he had a vision.

We didn't just vote against FF.
We voted for the person we thought was best for the job.

That person happened to not be affiliated with FF.

We were not on an anti FF crusade. W just both wanted the best person representing us locally.

Tha Gopher

LeixlipRed wrote:

Yeh only Nigerians are pervs. And have big lips. And are lazy. And swing from trees :rolleyes: I hope when you graduate from college (AQA course was it?) that you get screwed over for a job by a better qualified and more intelligent foreigner

LOL

You dont really talk to girls much, do you?

btw your username suggests you are possibly a ginge. I have nothing more to add.

Terry

Careful now.

I would be more than happy to ban you for personal abuse against someone who is both ginger and from Leixlip.
I've banned people for less.

Spyral

Im in the uk now.. so i dont care.. they dealt with it well enough..

karen3212

North&South wrote:

Yeah, I sometimes get fed up when I pop to town & all our cafes & pubs/clubs are staffed by foreigners who speak little english - so frustrating, but at least they are working & (hopefully) paying taxes etc.
The problem I have personally is when I get told that they are working for a pittance - and it takes SO long for the red tape to be cleared to get to the employers, who should know bloody better. :mad:

My other bugbear is the way our UK system almost discriminates against our own in favour of the immigrants. A young polish couple I know have recently had her mother to stay - for 7 weeks. Ok, that's fine. Then Mum 'falls ill' - has a doctor visit & 10 days later has had her triple heart bypass done on the NHS - ok.... still fine, poor lady, she must have been poorly..... well, because she needs 'looking after' and there is no-one back in Poland for her, they now have a lovely 3 bed semi council house, get Carers allowance & pension & benefits & they've been here since May! Oh, hang on - the young girl told me that her mum was taken ill in February, but couldn't possibly have had treatment in Poland...... not to this standard, & not this quick either. And that was why they came in the first place - turns out they were advised to do it this way by a 'UK relocation agency' - a what??? :eek:

Piss-take, or what?
And it's these types of examples that make folk mad, well they make ME mad, because I would never even think of doing something like it - but maybe I'm in the minority, & maybe I sound like a complete cow because if they hadn't taken this route, the lady might have died, I dunno - I'm off to bed!

That's so funny, English could be considered by some here as a foreign language.
It's so nice to see English people so worried about Irish culture, man have things changed. I hope you don't have any problems here , and I hope you don't encounter any Irish people who might be worried about us joining the UK again - so idiotic really thinking that the number of English people might soon have us voting for the Queen again. Just ignore them if you meet any idiots scaremongering that way.

Also I think the Polish health system is very good, most of my Polish friends go back to Poland for all their health stuff and just pay cash there, as they can't be bothered waiting for the services we provide here. I hope our health system won't be too much of a shock for you. Goodluck in your new country and I hope you learn to call it home. Slan Leat

Edit I am aware you don't vote for the Queen, but you will hear some idiots put it like that

karen3212

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

People like the OP miss the point. This is the EU's doing and this part of the European project.

When the EU constitution - now floating around under a new name - gets ratified then we will see a new voting system called "qualified majority voting" which will determine Ireland's levels of immigration...

"a qualified majority shall be defined as at least 55% of the members of the council, comprising at least 15 of them and representing member states comprising at least 65% of the population of the Union."

France and Germany combined make up 40% and the smaller nations will do whatever the big two ask of them. That means issues like immigration, and even justice issues, will be left to the EU and not ourselves.

The Dutch, who you'll remember rejected the constitution in '05, recently were told they would NOT get another vote on future reforms - even though polls show most Dutch people to be opposed to the EU's plans. Gordon Brown in the UK is refusing to give them a vote too. Here in Ireland we might have one due to the constitutional requirement for a referendum but most parties will campaign for a Yes vote and as Nice showed in '01, if they don't get the right result the first time then they'll force a second vote.

Ireland is not a net contributor to the EU - yet - and this is why we have become the dumping ground for foreign nationals that the other nation states don't want. What does it really matter about immigration levels when our sovereignty is gradually being eroded away to make room for a federal United States of Europe?

The people of Ireland have allowed us to get into this precarious situation. This is the other side to our "economic propserity". Judas had economic prosperity too when he got his thirty pieces of silver.

While I find it all quite tragic I accepted earlier in the year that most of the Irish electorate are f*cking idiots when the utterly corrupt FF were returned to power. You reap what you sow.

I am completely confused, do you want Irish idiots to have less of a say in who governs them or do you think we are too stupid to know what is best for us? If we are too stupid then surely it is good that Germans and French have more say in what we do.

karen3212

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

What I mean is there is a plan underway on the part of the EU to establish a federal European entity and this is why nation states likely to oppose these plans - like Holland and the UK - are being denied the chance to vote on these matters.

The erosion of our sovereignty and our culture is part of the overall plan.

The "boom" in our economy was masterminded by the European Union and since we are not net contributors we are contributing by being the dumping ground for the non-nationals that the big nation states don't want. As Europe's whore we take it any way that's asked.


What a con.

I thought the boom was brought about by the condom. What's wrong with having direct acess to a few hundred million people to trade with, bulkbuying etc. I don't think their cultures are any worse than ours, and I can fly all the way around Europe without having to change my money every half hour. Also I love hearing foreign languages here too, and how different are we really to people from other countries. All people have pride in their own cultures, I don't think you have to worry about our culture, it has amalgated with others for thousands of years, and we still like it.

karen3212

eoin5 wrote:

I didnt see the show. Did he start on about "Islamists" again? Imo that stuff wrote off all his credability forever.

No, but he did talk about the Seiks(sp) and the gardai hat thing.

I noticed when he said that he said, Seiks are fine though- law abiding citizens, have settled in everywhere they've been. To me, he was saying they are good, but there are others..... and they'd poke your eyes out with a fork given half the chance..... as if all people in any culture are law abiding and all in another culture are a problem.

Tha Gopher

Terry wrote:

Careful now.

I would be more than happy to ban you for personal abuse against someone who is both ginger and from Leixlip.
I've banned people for less.

Fair enough, but their post was quite clearly a load of arse.

Anyway im annoyed, i missed out on a Euromillions ticket because a pair of Spaniards spent 5 (yes, 5 mins) at the ATM machine. I told em to get a move on after 3 and just got a blank look back at me.

Deport the Spaniards. And women in general, theyre nearly as bad.

LeixlipRed

Tha Gopher wrote:

LOL

You dont really talk to girls much, do you?

btw your username suggests you are possibly a ginge. I have nothing more to add.

Ah yes, she's female and quite clearly a racist so I should try and score her by telling her how great she is. I'd perv at you too love . Is that better? :rolleyes:

Laslo

Seriously. When it comes to sheer sexiness, you can't beat an Eastern European woman. OPEN THE FLOODGATES I SAY.

Terry

Karen3212, please read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_and_paste

projectmayhem

Laslo wrote:

Seriously. When it comes to sheer sexiness, you can't beat an Eastern European woman. OPEN THE FLOODGATES I SAY.

indeed. the more we let in the better chance we have of creating attractive irish children.

...but 20% of the population? that's ridiculous. how many of them will be here if the economy goes belly-up? they're not integrating well enough to have any social necessity to stick around anyway...