The Angelus

tolosenc

Is anyone actually in favour of it? Or like it?

Sully

Don't care.

Its only for a few mins each day. I dont see the problem with it.

tolosenc

Yeah, but are we not supposed a secular, European society?
How exactly is it relevant? how is it fair to non-Catholics?

Thomas_S_Hunterson

It takes away from my valuable TV time...oh wait

kizzyr

Hate it. Can't stand it. Get rid of it.

I don't really have any feelings about it one way or another. When I was younger and living with my parents we would always sit down to dinner just before 6pm and we weren't allowed to eat until we'd said the angelus led by my Dad. Once that was over we'd eat away but always quietly as my Dad insisted on absolute silence to watch the news.:rolleyes:

Sully

Don't care.

obl wrote:

Yeah, but are we not supposed a secular, European society?
How exactly is it relevant? how is it fair to non-Catholics?

Oh for crying out loud. This is Ireland. The majority of people are Catholics. The majority practise that religion. Just because we have a minority of people who dont believe or believe in different types of religion does not mean we should just take it away altogether and not practise our religion in anyway in front of them. Its like people getting offended at Christmas time because we say "Happy Christmas" - non-believers and believers of other religions winge and cry that we are not being fair to them.

Do we go over to their country and ask them to stop practising their faith because we dont believe in it?

Brings back this to memory: http://www.marcusbarrett.co.uk/musings/wp-content/uploads/CRE_Xmas_Card.gif

DonJose

Whats the going rate for 60 seconds of prime time advertising space, bill them I say. The catholic church get away with too much in Ireland.

aidan_walsh

Hate it. Can't stand it. Get rid of it.

Do we go over to their country and ask them to stop practising their faith because we dont believe in it?

Oops, assuming all these "non-believers and believers of other religions" are not originally Irish is a bit of a PC faux pas, no?

mackerski

Sully04 wrote:

Oh for crying out loud. This is Ireland. The majority of people are Catholics. The majority practise that religion.

If that's true, bully for them. Why is a ringing bell on the telly a useful complement for the lifestyle of these pious individuals? Immediately preceding it is five minutes of ads for all manner of unholy things, following it is news of the latest gangland killing.

I won't begrudge anyone their moment of prayer, but a person who feels strongly about the Angelus doesn't need to be reminded by the telly. I incline to the view to somebody sat in front of the goggle box isn't usually there to pray.

We used to have Irish dancing on the radio. It did no harm. But somehow it got taken off air. Why should it be considered offensive to not issue a call to prayer on prime time telly?

Pigman II

I'd prefer if they used the time to show 2 commericals before the news. Perhaps a cillt-bang or meteor ad followed by one for dell.

admiralofthefleet

DonJose wrote:

Whats the going rate for 60 seconds of prime time advertising space, bill them I say. The catholic church get away with too much in Ireland.

agreed, it may be on for only 60 seconds but i find it grossly offensive

aidan_walsh

Hate it. Can't stand it. Get rid of it.

mackerski wrote:

But somehow it got taken off air.

Because someone finally woke up and realised that dancing is a skill best appreciated visually?

Of course, then we got "Celebrity Jigs and Reels", but thats a different complaint.

Sully

Don't care.

admiralgar wrote:

agreed, it may be on for only 60 seconds but i find it grossly offensive

Whats so offensive about bells and people stopping in silence? o_O

Wertz

I love it...gives me a chance to see what's happening on the BBC news headlines...most of the time I never switch back unless there's something on the RTÉ news that I particulalry want to see.

Seriously though, it does my head in and I think it's time has passed...not for any "oh we're all european now" bullsh*t reason; simply for the fact that it symbolises an Ireland borne out of the strict confines of catholicism, a religion which had far too much bearing on our progress as a state and which it has now come to light, had many dark secrets in it's own closet whilst telling it's denizens how to live and how not to live their lives.

I understand there are many older people out ther, probably more devout than people of my age who like the angelus, like going to mass and all that malarkey....I just don't think it's apropriate that a state run broadcaster should choose to continue to promote one particular religion over all others, when nearly all vestiges of that religion have been removed from the running of that state.

mike65

Down with this kind of thing! RTE is a state broadcaster and as such should have no truck with a particular faith.

Mike.

Sully

Don't care.

Wertz wrote:

Seriously though, it does my head in and I think it's time has passed...not for any "oh we're all european now" bullsh*t reason; simply for the fact that it symbolises an Ireland borne out of the strict confines of catholicism, a religion which had far too much bearing on our progress as a state and which it has now come to light, had many dark secrets in it's own closet whilst telling it's denizens how to live and how not to live their lives.

One of the reasons iv turned against the catholic teachings. I believe what I want to believe as I think the Catholic Church is corrupt and full of lies.

I just don't think it's apropriate that a state run broadcaster should choose to continue to promote one particular religion over all others, when nearly all vestiges of that religion have been removed from the running of that state.

Its because Irelands majority are Catholics. If we were all Muslims, I doubt the state would be having the Angelus on TV. Yes I know we are in Europe, have more then just catholics here - but the majority of the country are nationals and are catholics and this is why the state does this. The same with why we celebreate Christmas.

Pigman II

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzRP7OKHcqQ

Rb

Don't care.

I've no problem with it whatsoever. Though, with Ireland being so multi-cultural now and with so many religions present in the country, it is a bit biased of RTE to be letting the Catholic Church continue to play it. No problem with the Angelus itself though.

Sangre

Leave it. It's grand.

obl wrote:

Yeah, but are we not supposed a secular, European society?

No, what gave you that idea?

Snake Plisken

Don't care.

We did this debate before, (OP do a search before duplicating old threads) nothing wrong with it at all, I'm sure all of the Polish don't mind it either as the majority of them are Catholics, if you don't like it and u find it offensive like admgar above get off your arse and get the remote and turnover!

Snake

LundiMardi

I love the actors.

Dave!

Sully04 wrote:

Its because Irelands majority are Catholics. If we were all Muslims, I doubt the state would be having the Angelus on TV. Yes I know we are in Europe, have more then just catholics here - but the majority of the country are nationals and are catholics and this is why the state does this. The same with why we celebreate Christmas.

What ever happened to the idea of seperation of church and state? Have we just given up on that crazy notion?

InFront

Don't care.

I think it should be left there. I'm not Catholic, but I leave it on before the news whether it is TV or radio. I don't see any symbolism in it (in fact they rarely use ant Christian symbolism) it is merely a nice time for reflection or silence. It also comes (these days) around the time of the Isha, last prayer of the day for Muslims, and is just a nice little co-incidence

mike65

Nice vid find Pigman II

Mike.

biko

Don't care.

Pigman II wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzRP7OKHcqQ

Good one!

Keep the Angelus. It's a nice way of saying it's six o'clock - time to hit the pubs.
I also say Jesus, Mary and Joseph when surprised. Some things are best left alone.

Bateman

Hate it. Can't stand it. Get rid of it.

Leave it I say. Everything else I can remember from my childhood is gone.

Sangre

Leave it. It's grand.

DaveMcG wrote:

What ever happened to the idea of seperation of church and state? Have we just given up on that crazy notion?

Well, we never had that crazy notion in the first place. Have you ever read the 1937 Constitution?

This isn't America.

Wertz

InFront wrote:

I think it should be left there. I'm not Catholic, but I leave it on before the news whether it is TV or radio. I don't see any symbolism in it (in fact they rarely use ant Christian symbolism) it is merely a nice time for reflection or silence. It also comes (these days) around the time of the Isha, last prayer of the day for Muslims, and is just a nice little co-incidence

Quick question; do state run broadcasters in Islamist states do similar for evening prayer and the like?

[edit] Or would it be more like, that the tv simply wouldn't be on at a time like that?

aidan_walsh

Hate it. Can't stand it. Get rid of it.

DaveMcG wrote:

What ever happened to the idea of seperation of church and state? Have we just given up on that crazy notion?

http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached_files/html%20files/Constitution%20of%20Ireland%20(Eng)Nov2004.htm

Constitution Preamble, as of November 2004 wrote:

CONSTITUTION OF IRELAND


In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred,

We, the people of Éire,

Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial,

Gratefully remembering their heroic and unremitting struggle to regain the rightful independence of our Nation,

And seeking to promote the common good, with due observance of Prudence, Justice and Charity, so that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be assured, true social order attained, the unity of our country restored, and concord established with other nations,

Do hereby adopt, enact, and give to ourselves this Constitution.

Ruu_Old

My position is still unchanged, don't have an issue with it. Linkeh to auld thread

InFront

Don't care.

Wertz wrote:

Quick question; do state run broadcasters in Islamist states do similar for evening prayer and the like?
[edit] Or would it be more like, that the tv simply wouldn't be on at a time like that?

Yes there are reminders run on TV but these are of limited value bacause of time differences (times are quite exact) of course you also have the call to prayer from the mosques with the azaan. I don't know about other places but in Pakistan public (government) buildings shut for prayers now, they didn't used to before AFAIK. There are even people who get prayer reminders on their mobile phones... dont think we have that in Ireland yet!

admiralofthefleet

does anyone have a link to the spoof angelus that played before bruce almighty in the cinemas, i looked but could not find it.

karlh

religion should have no place on a publicly funded station. dump it.

Red Alert

Don't care.

InFront is one of the few people here talking sense. Why are some people here so blinded by a hatred of the catholic church and faith (not the same thing!) that they have to find anything it does or touches offensive.

I sure as hell prefer watching/listening to the angelus than watching some eejit spouting about why i need another loan/credit card or even worse some dickhead in a Harvey Norman uniform.

I'm catholic, but if I was in a predominantly Muslim country i'd love to hear the call to prayer. In fact I think it's a bit odd that the Mosque in Clonskeagh doesn't issue a public call to prayer.

Will they want to ban my local church ringing its bell soon?

sweet-rasmus

Don't care.

i enjoy the angelus; it's good for a laugh, and very easy to take the piss of prime time tv.

Zonko

Was raised a catholic with RTÉ, and yet... I've never noticed it. I guess my family weren't very good catholics.

Dave!

Sangre wrote:

Well, we never had that crazy notion in the first place. Have you ever read the 1937 Constitution?

This isn't America.

Touché! It's actually pretty embaressing the level to which our constitution refers to religion.

Red Alert wrote:

Will they want to ban my local church ringing its bell soon?

I would think so if it violates sound pollution laws!

Seth Brundle

IIRC there was a 'debate' within the media about this a few years back. It was proposed to get rid of it by some whilst others wanted to keep it as a moment of reflection which is what it became.

aidan_walsh

Hate it. Can't stand it. Get rid of it.

It was proposed to get rid of it by some whilst others wanted to keep it as a moment of reflection which is what it became.

In which case, I wonder would it appease both movements with a compromise solution by replacing the bell with some appropriate music, or even silence. Of course, that would upset people who want the Angelus...

ArthurDent

Not Catholic, but it doesn't bother me - except for the naff actors (especially the poor teenage sap playing the tin-whistle ) , I think a minutes reflection shloudn't be something to get your knickers in a twist about.

Gautama

I sometimes as non-nationals what they think of it. They find it very unusual.

mackerski

Sangre wrote:

Well, we never had that crazy notion in the first place. Have you ever read the 1937 Constitution?

We have changed it a little since then...

tolosenc

ArthurDent wrote:

Not Catholic, but it doesn't bother me - except for the naff actors (especially the poor teenage sap playing the tin-whistle ) , I think a minutes reflection shloudn't be something to get your knickers in a twist about.

Good point, but... Moment of reflection: yes. Religious aspect: completely unnecessary. Why not just have a serene picture and silence for a minute? More effective, don't you think?

If we are a multicultural society, as claimed to death by the Gov, why not have the Muslim call to prayer 5 times daily? Shut down RTÉ at sundown on a Friday for the Sabbath? etc.

A state run or sponsored body should have no political or religious bias. The whole European separation of Church and State thing has yet to catch on here even though it's official in the EU, to the best of my knowledge.

At least with the Sunday service yoke, there are Protestant services and Jewish ones and talks from Imams. The Angelus and "An Evening Prayer" really annoy me. I pay my licence fee for this? I was born and raised Irish in Ireland, and have never been in a Catholic church, I'm not Catholic(never have been), yet I am expected to pay for soft-core papish propaganda? Get away.

</rant>

Talliesin

It's hard to stiffle a laugh when you're in the home of someone who says the Angelus and RTÉ is on when it goes six, because of course they turn of their television to say the Angelus.

It's only people who don't see it who see the broadcast.

randylonghorn

Hate it. Can't stand it. Get rid of it.

The Angelus bell is totally irrelevant to me, but it doesn't bother me either.

I don't have any problem either when abroad with the muezzin, or with the sound of Buddhist prayer bells.

If we can be tolerant of and sensitive towards the beliefs / practices of other faiths and cultures, should we not also give the same respect to those who retain a more traditional Catholic faith, and acknowledge that, while times are changing, that is the traditional majority faith in this country.

The fact that a lot of the very serious flaws in the Catholic church as an organisation have come to light in recent decades isn't really the core of this particular argument. This issue isn't about the institutional church, but about the faith / practices of ordinary believers, as someone pointed out earlier.

Mossy Monk

wouldnt say i "Hate it. Can't stand it" but i feel it has no place on publicly funded television. get rid

Dord

Hate it. Can't stand it. Get rid of it.

i just think its funny...LOL

i remember the now cancelled tv show Bull Island did a skit of it with lots of people doing stuff and then staring up in the sky at nothing, like in the angelus.

some guy taking a p*ss in the toilets then looks up pointlessly. some scumbag robbing some old lady and then looks up. LMFAO.

Kwekubo

Hate it. Can't stand it. Get rid of it.

I have no real issue from it. The current version is a far cry from ten years ago when you had some Catholic/Orthodox icon staring fixedly at you for 60 seconds. I'd even say it's nice to have a moment to reflect.

Sleepy

Personally, I believe religion has no place in society at large, never mind in the running of the state. RTE being a state body, it should not be showing religious propaganda like the angelus.

That said, I'd consider wresting control of our education system back from the Catholic church a far higher priority than removing the Angelus from our television sets. Though I would like to see it removed.

Kold

Hate it. Can't stand it. Get rid of it.

Remix that ****. Call it Angelus Redux.

Winters

Replace it with 60 seconds of hardcore pornography.

I for one would tune in more often. Sixty seconds is all ya need sure if your quick.